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Will this make Peak Human faster?

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Peak human speed is based purely on sprinting speed, and this wouldn't apply to the reactions page, since he's not actually reacting he's just performing a rehearsed movement at extreme speeds. It might be worth mentioning on the peak human page, along with other weapon speed record holders like Isao Machii
 
Blahblah makes sense. Is somebody willing to ask some calc group members to comment here regarding his suggestion?
 
If you go by powerlisting fandom, Peak Human speed is 30-39 mph (13.4-17.4 m/s). This article about a study says theoretically 40 mph (17.9 m/s). If we're basing it purely off Usain Bolt (who one could argue is almost peak human in the running category), then Peak Human should start at 12.51 m/s and extend to 17.4 or 17.9 m/s. Maybe add a category between Athletic and Peak Human (Pro-Athlete perhaps?) that covers 9.8-12.51 m/s?
 
I feel like "Peak Human" in fiction should be like superior than humans in the real life. I kinda agree with ChemistKyle89.

On the other hand I'm not sure if this is necessary.
 
But perhaps the upper border of peak human should be 20 m/s, so that the fastest punches for humans won't be superhuman either.
 
I disagree with ChemistKyle's suggestion of the study and with the first thing you said Spino. Regarding that study, it's a hypothetical of what if human muscles were built differently to how they actually are, requiring a high concentration of a certain type of muscle fiber, and it apparently doesn't do enough to address other limiting factors that you would reach after increasing the number of those muscle fibers.

To what Spino said, the peak human rating should be about real life peak humans, not fictional ones. A "peak human" in fiction has no real standards to be held to other than those of their verse, and any range we give it above real world human limits would end up with something too arbitrary or ungrounded for a name with real world significance.

That being said, raising the upper border to match the fastest punches and kicks a human can perform would make sense. By our current standards, we would consider many high end athletes and martial artists to have superhuman reactions, and saying real world humans are beyond human is pretty illogical.
 
A "peak human" should be at least capable of running 100 m in 10 seconds, which is the speed of the top Olympic athletes.

I suggest using 9.87 seconds, the 25th fastest man of all-time, hence that's 10.13 m/s.

For punching, the fastest punch is 44 mph, or a bit less than 19.67 m/s.

my suggestions would be

Athlete level: 7.7-10.13 m/s

Peak Human: 10.13-19.67 m/s

Superhuman: 19.67-34.3 m/s
 
That still doesn't change the fact that multiple fandoms use a different standard than we do.

Marvel - Peak Human: Sustained 30 mph with sprinting @ near 60 mph.

DC - Peak Human: Able to catch a speeding car while running.

Powerlisting aka the go to fandom for looking up powers and their definitions: 30-39 mph.

This is why so many characters who are described elsewhere as being only Peak Human are given Superhuman Physical Characteristics here.
 
Actually, I think part of the problem is that Superhuman Physical Characteristics uses incorrect values. It has Speed > 9.8 m/s and Lifting Strength > 454 kg.

Speed says 9.8-12.51 m/s is Peak Human. Superhuman doesn't start until 12.51-34.3 m/s.

Lifting Strength defines Peak Human as 227-460 kg (which is outdated btw - Eddie Hall has a deadlift record of 500 kg ; SHW 1,157 Vlad Alhazov Israel (525.91 kg) Squat ) [Honestly, Lifting Strength would best be defined as a body weight ratio instead of a top end number anyway. Andrzej Stanaszek 300.5 kg Squat (6.01x's body weight) Women top out at 4.7x's BW]

But the way it's listed on the page, Superhuman Physical Characteristics literally overlaps with what is defined as Peak Human.
 
Peak Human by definition is the peak of human though, hence so-called "peak humans" in fiction are legit superhuman.

That being said, our superhuman standards are indeed too low currently. I think 19.67 m/s (44 mph) is a good upper boundary for peak human.

I think Superhuman Physical Characteristics should start at 19.67 m/s, while superhuman lifting strength should be 2844 kg since that's what we rate Composite Human as on JBW. 2844 kg is Class 5 though...
 
In the end though, we're just a fan-made power indexing site, and many borders are kind of arbitrary and should stay arbitrary. I support raising the borders, but I'm not sure if it is necessary at all.
 
By our own definitions though, the numbers on the Superhuman Characteristics Page are wrong.

9.8 m/s should be 12.51 m/s (the bare minimum for superhuman). Since a lot of times we do use combat speed, I do think we need to raise the barrier to what you suggest (19.67).

I wonder if there's a way to figure out the effective weight they're pulling C130 Hercules pull or 70,000 lb truck pull? I kinda doubt the numbers are any more impressive than the 500 kg / 525 kg. I'd suggest 550 kg for the top end of Peak Human (that gives them some room to grow, but also appears doable).
 
I agree with the suggestion for 10.13 to 19.67 (Peak Human). [That would also mean that the Superhuman Physical Characteristics Page would have to be updated to 19.67]. That means at least 25 people have hit that speed.

What I was saying earlier is that SPC Page has the incorrect value listed (it lists the starting value of Peak Human, rather than the starting value of Superhuman).

Nick Best Hip Lifts 2,791 lbs...twice. [1,268.64 kg]. I'm just saying...
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
In the end though, we're just a fan-made power indexing site, and many borders are kind of arbitrary and should stay arbitrary. I support raising the borders, but I'm not sure if it is necessary at all.
Click to expand...
For speed the borders are relatively well defined based on actual values or speeds that are just a set number of orders of magnitude off. Since peak human is a value based on something in the real world, it should be accurate to that.
 
Except the 19.67 m/s is based on real world numbers too...combat speed. In fact, according to our speed page, "The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed." So shouldn't we up the border for peak human speed based on the peak human combat speed?
 
Yeah 19.67 m/s is probably a good upper border considering it makes no sense for peak humans in real world to be "superhuman combat speed".
 
Lifting Strength could be relatively simple. Get rid of Class 1 and make Class 5 range from 2,500 to 5,000 kg. The 2,844 kg comes from a controversial lift (RIP Paul Anderson). The current Guinness back lift record is 2,420 kg set by Gregg Ernst in 1993.
 
ChemistKyle89 said:
Lifting Strength could be relatively simple. Get rid of Class 1 and make Class 5 range from 2,500 to 5,000 kg. The 2,844 kg comes from a controversial lift (RIP Paul Anderson). The current Guinness back lift record is 2,420 kg set by Gregg Ernst in 1993.
Click to expand...
Alternatively we could get rid of Peak Human and just make "classes".
 
But "Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth." Peak Human 227 kg to 2,420 kg. That's a 27-year old record that's probably not going to be broken soon. As with speed, that's a verifiable, real live mass that an individual has lifted on Earth. Class 5 2,420 kg to 5,000 kg. Class 1 is based solely on deadlift records (needs updated to 500 kg if that's the case). Are we saying the deadlift is the go-to definition? The back lift seems comparable to "support a wall" type feats.
 
Hmmn deadlift seems to be a better option. We probably should update it to 500 kg based on new records. Should be simple enough.
 
I do not mind if we change the upper limit for Peak Human lifting strength to 500 or 526 kilograms, and 10.13 to 17.9 m/s might be the best borders for Peak Human speed.

However, we need more calc group member input here before we change this.
 
2017 Arnold Strongman Classic Super Yoke: 1st Round 1300 lbs (590.91 kg), 2nd Round 1565 lbs (711.36 kg) and they're walking with it, so when they take steps they're briefly supporting double the weight (1181.82 kg and 1422.73 kg respectively). 2500 lb (1136.36 kg) Back Lift (2nd Place in Event) [Derek Poundstone is a cop, 3 Time America's Strongest Man, and a runner up in the 2008 World's Strongest Man]. Ronnie Coleman 2300 lb (1045.45 kg) Leg Press - 8 Reps [Mr. Olympia 8 years in a row]. Model T / Frame Leg Press - 2075 lbs (943.18 kg). [That's in addition to previous examples provided]

It seems like a double standard to limit Peak Human Lifting strength to 500 or 526 kg when I could literally do this all day.

Limiting Peak Human Speed to 17.9 m/s instead of 19.67 m/s still makes people punching Superhuman Combat Speed, and our very definition on the Speed Page prioritizes Combat Speed over Running/Travel Speed...so why wouldn't we use the verified number for Combat Speed?
 
I suppose that you have a point about combat speed. We still need more calc group member input or nothing will likely happen here though.
 
I disagree with using back lift records to raise the upper limit of Peak Human Lifting Strength, this is because in the vast majority of fiction, characters don't lift superhuman weights with a back lift, instead, their method of lifting is most similar to a dead lift.

Therefore, if we apply this change, it would make characters that would otherwise be Class 1, aka Superhuman, just Peak Human, and that wouldn't make any sense and would be unfair to these characters.

Using anything more than the maximum running speed as the upper limit of the Peak Human would be foolish at this point. Did you know that there are humans who can kick at Subsonic speeds? Raising the upper limit of the Peak Human to that level would be absurd, and we would never be able to apply the changes to all profiles.

Needless to say, we cannot simply make changes that would affect a large part of the wikia, specially at this moment, and deleting an entire tier of Lifting Strength is completely out of the question.

I can agree with raising the upper limit of Peak Human Lifting Strength at 500 kg, as the upgrade is small and it doesn't seem as a wiki-wide change.
 
Therefir makes sense to me.

What do you think about 10.13 to 17.9 m/s for Peak Human speed?
 
Raising the lower limit to 10.13 based on the top 25 record should be fine, but using a theoretical value to raise the upper limit is probably not a good idea, no human has ever reached that speed, and probably no human would be able to do so.

If a person appears in the future who is faster than Usain Bolt, then that's when we should update the upper limit.

The Superhuman Physical Characteristics Page should be updated too, but now using values beyond Peak Human.

  • Speed: Faster than 12.51 m/s.
  • Lifting Strength: Over 500 kg (More than Olympic weight-lifters)
  • Striking Strength: Street Class (Attacks carry the force of over thousands of joules)
  • Durability: Street level (Able to survive large amounts of blunt force trauma, but can still get be killed by things such as knives, bullets, etc)
 
I suppose I agree with what you've said, considering the vast number of changes that would have to be made to profiles across the wiki. I can understand not wanting to do all the work involved.

Not all those examples are back lifts. I used the record for back lift (to show true Peak Human Maximum) and showed Poundstone doing a hip, thigh, and back lift because it's similar to Batman's supporting a wall feat. I've shown an example of a dude leg pressing 2300 lbs for 8 reps while Batman says he maxes out at 2500 lbs (meaning 1 rep) [Direct comparison which gives Batma a Class 5 rating, and it's not a deadlift]. Batman's page also gives him Class 1 for Bench Pressing 1,000 lbs [I guess 500 each side?] (454.55 kg), which is lower than the 460 kg minimum for Class 1 currently so I assume the page hasn't been looked at in a while. Captain America benches 2200 lbs (1000 kg)? 1100 each side?

The super yoke (World Record 711.36 kg) and Car Walk are events where they pick up and walk with impressive weights (the car walk is generally lower weight because it's more difficult to balance 450kg). The car walk in general is a good example of how comic book physics differs from the real world. In comics, you'd just pick a car up by the bumper without ripping it off.
 
@ChemistKyle89 I just think we should take into account what methods fictional characters usually use to lift heavy weighs before making any change to the Peak Human tier.

For example, Hitoshi Shinsou from My Hero Academia have feat that consist in him pulling two steel pipes out of their place using his hands, with the final result being Class 1. However, if we raise the upper limit of Peak Human to somewhere around Class 5, this would make Shinsou Peak Human, which would imply there are humans in this world that are able to replicate Shinsou's feat, even though in the way he does it, makes it completely impossible for any real life human.

I suggested using deadlift records because we can all agree that the method is the most similar to how characters lift heavy things in fiction. You're not going to see a character lifting a car using leg pressing, for example.

As for characters like Batman and Captain America who do have these kind of feats, making them Peak Human would be still out of place if you think about it, as they clearly have many superhuman feats, and those feats that you listed are mostly just to support their ratings. Batman can lift part of roof, a giant boulder, a statue, and even part of a building. Honestly having him at just Class 1 is not even consistent at this point, he should be just plain SuperHuman, but that's just my opinion.

The same is applicable for Cap. However, the feat that you listed for him is not being used on his profile, it just says that he is Class 5 for lifting a tree, even though that's actually Class 25. But whatever, Marvel and DC pages are not the most consistent profiles out there.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
@Therefir I was suggesting to raise the peak human limit to 19.67 m/s to account for world record punching speeds.
Click to expand...
But kicks are also part of combat speed, so humans will still have superhuman combat speed no matter what you do, unless you want to upgrade Peak Human to Subsonic.

That's why I prefer to keep using running speed as the Peak Human value, since there's no point in upgrading it to 19.67 m/s when that's not actually the Peak Human combat speed.
 
What's the top speed of a kick? Bren Foster's 60 m/s kick was debunked, and I don't see any kick speed on the JBW Composit Human profile
 
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