Yogurt NEP changes, possible removal (Instant Death)

[SweetDao]

I'll quote the cosmology blog :

It was a dead end. The inevitable destination of all fates, beyond which there was nothing. The end of all things in human form. An embodiment of nonexistence that would overcome all others, something that no one could ever hope to surpass. Before this thing, the machinations of Fate were nothing more than a crude joke.

Sadly, this part is a mistranslation.

"It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

それ は 袋小路 だっ た。 　 全て の 運命 の 行き着く 先 で あり、 そこ から 先 には 何 も ない。 全て の 終わり が そこ で 人 の 形 を 取っ て い た。 　 それ は 終焉 で ある から こそ、 最後 まで 立っ て いる 者 だ。 何者 も それ より 先 に 行く こと など でき は し ない。 　 そんな 者 を 相手 に、 運命 だの、 筋書き だの 戯れ言 にも なら ない"

By all means, he's still "The end of everything", but certainly not "an embodiment of nonexistence that would overcome all others". If anything, the manga has the correct explanation. The justification for his NEP should either be changed accordingly or outright removed, since I'm unsure the others justifications are enough to grant him this ability.

Agree : KingNanaya, BestMGQScalerEver (Agree with rewording), Georredannea15 (Agree with removal if no additional proof), Violatas (Agree with removal if no additional proof), Oblivion_Of_The_Endless (Rewording), Robo432343 (Rewording), Everything12 (Agree with Rewording), Eseseso (Agree with removal), GarrixianXD

Disagree :

Neutral :

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree. Should be simple.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Same justification can probably stay just reworded. Since even the nonexistence of gods would fall under its purview and that they will return to or eventually reach the end.

 

[SweetDao]

Same justification can probably stay just reworded. Since even the nonexistence of gods would fall under its purview and that they will return to or eventually reach the end.

Yeah, that too will go in another CRT, just not now.

I'll put you in "agree for rewording".

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also these scans might help with keeping NEP too.

The End being the void of nothingness where nothing is allowed to exist and gets dissolved into its darkness.

 

[SweetDao]

Also these scans might help with keeping NEP too.

The End being the void of nothingness where nothing is allowed to exist and gets dissolved into its darkness.

As far as I know, there is no proof it is Yogiri's true form.

Also, this :

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

As far as I know, there is no proof it is Yogiri's true form.

Also, this :

Pretty sure that's just a metaphor for the end.

 

[SweetDao]

Pretty sure that's just a metaphor for the end.

Every moment the true form of Yogiri appeared was followed by eyes appearing everywhere in a "not so subtle" manner. Saying "now it's just a metaphor" needs more proof. Also, are you implying that Mitsuki is currently living inside The End?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Every moment the true form of Yogiri appeared was followed by eyes appearing everywhere in a "not so subtle" manne

Yes, but thats in actual reality, for targets that were still alive to see it. UEG in this case isnt anymore, she was already targetted by Yogiri at this point.

Also, are you implying that Mitsuki is currently living inside The End?

Mitsuki is a different case since he wasnt actually killed by Yogiri, so that void would be something else. Its just the disembodied consciousness of Mitsuki's true self

 

[SweetDao]

Yes, but thats in actual reality, for targets that were still alive to see it. UEG in this case isnt anymore, she was already targetted by Yogiri at this point.

Saying it's Yogiri's true form require way more than just "it is because it's darkness, and it consumed UEG". Also, she was still technically alive, just that her death was bound to happen shortly after.

Mitsuki is a different case since he wasnt actually killed by Yogiri, so that void would be something else. Its just the disembodied consciousness of Mitsuki's true self

Yeah, I know he wasn't killed by Yogiri. The point is, it's not because "darkness" are described at one point that it is Yogiri's true form. Malna is shown inside a dark, empty void when she died, and it wasn't Yogiri either. (Yeah, I know, she wasn't killed by Yogiri, that's the point.)

Now that I think about it, Rilna died instantly without any "getting absorbed by the end" either.

The scene doesn't need Yogiri's true form to "absorb" UEG to work. It could just be a more "elaborate way" to show the death of a character, especially an antagonist that spanned a couple volume.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Saying it's Yogiri's true form require way more than just "it is because it's darkness, and it consumed UEG". Also, she was still technically alive, just that her death was bound to happen shortly after.

They were talking about the true form in the same context. This whole scene was a representation of what the end is. You can easily infer that it’s also the “destination” that all things reach and dissolve into nothingness when they reach their “end”.

 

[SweetDao]

They were talking about the true form in the same context. This whole scene was a representation of what the end is. You can easily infer that it’s also the “destination” that all things reach and dissolve into nothingness when they reach their “end”.

Yes, but that's not exactly what happened. Kouryu came to mock UEG and explain how she ended up like this. She targeted Yogiri. That's it. There is no "this is actually the true form of the character you targeted" or anything remotely similar to imply this.

Again, she was still technically alive, so why the eyes, something intrinsic about Yogiri's true form, didn't appear?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Yes, but that's not exactly what happened. Kouryu came to mock UEG and explain how she ended up like this. She targeted Yogiri. That's it. There is no "this is actually the true form of the character you targeted" or anything remotely similar to imply this.

Again, she was still technically alive, so why the eyes, something intrinsic about Yogiri's true form, didn't appear?

Ok so if this wasn’t a representation of what happens at the end then what was this darkness she sees and gets erased in? Surely it’s just something randomly included without any causation to it.

 

[SweetDao]

Ok so if this wasn’t a representation of what happens at the end then what was this darkness she sees and gets erased in? Surely it’s just something randomly included without any causation to it.

I mean.

 

[SweetDao]

I don't know, you could say it's how she sees herself die, I suppose.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I mean.

Not literally a dream lmfao. She herself is only seeing this because she is reaching her end. Yea it’s an “illusion” but an illusion that’s suppose to represent what the end is.

 

[SweetDao]

Not literally a dream lmfao. She herself is only seeing this because she is reaching her end. Yea it’s an “illusion” but an illusion that’s suppose to represent what the end is.

So this is just an "illusion" and she's not literally melting into darkness then, right?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

So this is just an "illusion" and she's not literally melting into darkness then, right?

Perhaps maybe not literal but it’s still a representation of what happens at the end. A return to nothingness.

 

[SweetDao]

Perhaps maybe not literal but it’s still a representation of what happens at the end. A return to nothingness.

Yogiri EE the existence of people out of the Ultimate Ensemble World. Except if you assume that is ground for NEP, it should still go.

Also, there is still no proof that it is Yogiri's true form. You're telling me that every single instance of his true form appearing was followed by eyes popping out everywhere, but in this particular moment, when UEG was still partially alive, they didn't appear? I can't believe this, personally.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also, there is still no proof that it is Yogiri's true form. You're telling me that every single instance of his true form appearing was followed by eyes popping out everywhere, but in this particular moment, when UEG was still partially alive, they didn't appear? I can't believe this, personally.

I don't get what's so hard to understand? By taking this stance you're saying this scene has no meaning whatsoever. It's quite literally a clear representation of what happens at the end and there was also a direct correlation to the true form to what caused this whole scene. I feel like this is just incredulous and discarding the narrative that's trying to be shown. It doesn't matter if there were eyes or not when the context basically overpowers that point.

 

[SweetDao]

I don't get what's so hard to understand? By taking this stance you're saying this scene has no meaning whatsoever. It's quite literally a clear representation of what happens at the end and there was also a direct correlation to the true form to what caused this whole scene. I feel like this is just incredulous and discarding the narrative that's trying to be shown. It doesn't matter if there were eyes or not when the context basically overpowers that point.

I could ask you the same question frankly.

The scene has a meaning. UEG dies. That's it. You yourself said that "it's not literal". The whole "melting into darkness" is just a way to say "yeah, she died". You should pick your side. Either it was reality and it happened, or it wasn't and everything is metaphorical.

The author always showed Yogiri's true form with its eyes. You're the one putting your vision unto a scene that has no link with his true form. Yeah, Kouryu talked about the fact that there is a "limiter" watching over Gods, just like Gods watch over human. It's obvious that it would talk about this since UEG literally tried to kill Yogiri, hence why she'll die shortly after.

Yogiri delete the existence of peoples (or things) out of the Ultimate Ensemble World. That's it. "Nothingness" is just death.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I could ask you the same question frankly.

The scene has a meaning. UEG dies. That's it. You yourself said that "it's not literal". The whole "melting into darkness" is just a way to say "yeah, she died". You should pick your side. Either it was reality and it happened, or it wasn't and everything is metaphorical.

Doesn't matter if what happened was literal or metaphorical. It still portrays what the end is.

The author always showed Yogiri's true form with its eyes. You're the one putting your vision unto a scene that has no link with his true form. Yeah, Kouryu talked about the fact that there is a "limiter" watching over Gods, just like Gods watch over human. It's obvious that it would talk about this since UEG literally tried to kill Yogiri, hence why she'll die shortly after.

Yogiri delete the existence of peoples (or things) out of the Ultimate Ensemble World. That's it. "Nothingness" is just death.

What happens here is not really "just death". It's explicitly beyond death like how death is just another state of being that Gods can come back from but Yogiri is able to go beyond this and bring about a true "death". Yogiri's death hax throughout the entire series has explicitly been beyond what conventional death is.

There are plenty of things that have killed God, but to God death is just a state of being, and they will eventually resurrect out of nowhere. That's what she thought.

Anyways I'm not just arbitrarily putting my view on it when what's being portrayed is super clear. It doesn't necessarily have to be the true form itself but even if it's a representation or metaphor of what happens at the end then that'd still say something about it having NEP.

 

[SweetDao]

Doesn't matter if what happened was literal or metaphorical. It still portrays what the end is.

It does, actually. Because you can't be certain that "nothingness" or "darkness" is what the true form of Yogiri really is. It was a dream seen by UEG, hence the "darkness" she saw might just be of her own making.

What happens here is not really "just death". It's explicitly beyond death like how death is just another state of being that Gods can come back from but Yogiri is able to go beyond this and bring about a true "death". Yogiri's death hax throughout the entire series has explicitly been beyond what conventional death is.

Yeah, sure, I don't deny that. UEG herself says she's beyond the concept of death. That's why I said he's not killing her. He's erasing her from the Ultimate Ensemble World.

Anyways I'm not just arbitrarily putting my view on it when what's being portrayed is super clear. It doesn't necessarily have to be the true form itself but even if it's a representation or metaphor of what happens at the end then that'd still say something about it having NEP.

I don't understand... Let's assume you're in the same place as UEG. You get a weird ass hallucination at the end of your life, seeing darkness everywhere around you, until you ultimately die by vanishing into them. Why would it be "the true form of death" rather than just you seeing stuff?

Also, you're right. This scene shows her "ending". That's obvious. That's also the exact problem, everything could just be of her own making. The only truth would be that "she died because Yogiri killed her". Even if it's not his true form, the ending stays the same.

 

[KingNanaya]

There are many ways to portray death while writing a story, and the "dissolving into darkness" angle is fairly common. I think saying that the dream is just to show that they died is a fair take to have, and one that I agree with so far. I maintain my agreement with the OP.

Doesn't matter if what happened was literal or metaphorical.

it really does. if it's metaphorical, and she just simply dies, then that's it. she's dead.

 

[Georredannea15]

Well, I guess that the statement in the OP alone is not enough for NEP, if the only reason is the statement in the OP, then yeah man, it should be removed.

However, if there is more context and more things to keep NEP, I think it can be rewording, but if not, I agree with the removal.

 

[Violatas]

My thoughts are the same as the above user's. Agree with the removal until better justification is given

 

[Fixxed]

Ohh poor translation... as far as i remember this is the second case where this verse have some misstranslation

Yeah remove that

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Forgot about this scan, which states that when Yogiri kills/ends something, that target gets sentenced into nothingness. Yogiri's true form is that very End itself so we could use that to reword his current NEP into a better justification (coupled with what MGQScaler said at the beginning of the thread regarding the gods' NEP), instead of removing it. So put my vote down for rewording it.

 

[KingNanaya]

I disagree with that scan being a good replacement, but I'll say why in the morning. I need to sleep.

 

[Robo432343]

reword FRA

 

[Robo432343]

wait a minute

if Yogiri is the end of everything, wouldn't that include nothingness?

 

[SweetDao]

Forgot about this scan, which states that when Yogiri kills/ends something, that target gets sentenced into nothingness. Yogiri's true form is that very End itself so we could use that to reword his current NEP into a better justification (coupled with what MGQScaler said at the beginning of the thread regarding the gods' NEP), instead of removing it. So put my vote down for rewording it.

Figure of speech, really. Also, he isn't "sentencing them into nothingness" but "Sentencing them TO an eternity of nothingness".

Furthermore, in the raw text, there is no mention of "nothingness", only darkness.

"You will sink into eternal darkness, unable to do anything about it."

"君は何もできないまま永遠の闇に沈むことになる"

Yeah sure, Gods NEP will be tackled in another thread anyway.

 

[SweetDao]

wait a minute

if Yogiri is the end of everything, wouldn't that include nothingness?

You mean in the actual novel or here on his profile?

On his profile, yeah, he killed people with NEP, but I don't know if that fact alone gives him "NEP". I think it would be NPI, probably.

In the novel, he never killed nonexistent stuff.

 

[Everything12]

The End still has it's omnipresent nature, which while it only mentions space and time we can easily extrapolate based off it's nature to extent to the nonexistent places we do know exist in the series.

 

[SweetDao]

The End still has it's omnipresent nature, which while it only mentions space and time we can easily extrapolate based off it's nature to extent to the nonexistent places we do know exist in the series.

The void Gods go to when their physical vessel dies?

 

[Everything12]

Yes.

 

[SweetDao]

Yes.

I'll put you in agree with rewording then.

 

[SweetDao]

The End still has it's omnipresent nature, which while it only mentions space and time we can easily extrapolate based off it's nature to extent to the nonexistent places we do know exist in the series.

Actually, if the new reason for his NEP is "Being omnipresent even in an empty void" wouldn't he still lose it? Since he's a rule/constant of the Ultimate Ensemble world, it's logical he's everywhere. I don't think we give a rule/a law NEP just because it encompasses a reality that include "void"/"nothingness" or the likes.

Furthermore, which aspect would he even get?

He doesn't seem to have a soul, so his soul can't be nonexistent.
He isn't lacking a concept. He's the limiter/a rule of the Ultimate Ensemble World. The End in short.
He shouldn't have a nonexistent mind, since nothing point at it.
He doesn't lack information. It's a constant of the Ultimate Ensemble World.
And I don't see which "other aspects" would fit.

In fact, I don't know if any would fit. So if you can enlighten me, I'll be thankful.

 

[Georredannea15]

The End still has it's omnipresent nature, which while it only mentions space and time we can easily extrapolate based off it's nature to extent to the nonexistent places we do know exist in the series.

Wouldn't that be an assumption? And I think, if we are going to make this assumption, I think it would be healthier with a "possibly" NEP.

 

[Eseseso]

Removing NEP makes sense to me.