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Zenless Zone Zero Discussion Thread

SHE DOESNT??
No, she does not. I can't see how people are so critical of YSG but wanna pretend like Miyabi's character arc isn't two plot points in a trench coat pretending to be an arc.

Much of everything that can be said of Season 2 can be equally said of Season 1.

(Don't try and pretend like Villains were EVER GOOD)

And i'd very definitively say nothing that came of the later chapters are demonstrably better either.

The entire final stretch of 2.8 relies on Remielle telling you jackshit and you falling into a bad situation blind.

And neither Vespa nor Romuel are standout antagonists that are remarkably better than anything that came before.


Everything is the same as it's always been.
 
No, she does not. I can't see how people are so critical of YSG but wanna pretend like Miyabi's character arc isn't two plot points in a trench coat pretending to be an arc.
shungus' issue to me is that she's just introduced way too late into the story so it feels like they try to cram her entire story arc into like, two patches. i mean, banyue and dialyn basically got shafted in a story patch that should've been about them because a good portion of it was spent building up shungus and the qingming sword. miyabi was at least a character built up from early on in season 1, and they've also already been doing a better job building up remielle imo

(Don't try and pretend like Villains were EVER GOOD)
villains have never been this game's strong suit but that kinda just ties into the bigger topic of us needing an actual recurring villain rather than just constant "villain of the week" style antagonists for every story patch

i generally agree that there honestly isn't huge disparities between the quality of S1 and S2 writing wise though. S1 has good story patches, S2 also has good story patches. S1 has mid story patches, S2 also has mid story patches. ZZZ season 2 has never felt "overly different" or anything like that to me compared to S1
 
shungus' issue to me is that she's just introduced way too late into the story so it feels like they try to cram her entire story arc into like, two patches. i mean, banyue and dialyn basically got shafted in a story patch that should've been about them because a good portion of it was spent building up shungus and the qingming sword. miyabi was at least a character built up from early on in season 1, and they've also already been doing a better job building up remielle imo


villains have never been this game's strong suit but that kinda just ties into the bigger topic of us needing an actual recurring villain rather than just constant "villain of the week" style antagonists for every story patch

i generally agree that there honestly isn't huge disparities between the quality of S1 and S2 writing wise though. S1 has good story patches, S2 also has good story patches. S1 has mid story patches, S2 also has mid story patches. ZZZ season 2 has never felt "overly different" or anything like that to me compared to S1
See, I consider all of that basically a crock of shit.

I have no clue how you could remotely think that Banyue, the crux character of 2.4 is shafted in his chapter When the entire chapter is effectively focused on his actions and how they impacted the survivors and how Dialyn views him and how he views himself.

Pretending like YSG erodes Banyue, of all character's, position in the narrative makes me intensely question what story you were reading.

Do you think YSG talking about how important Banyue was to her childhood and why she's even here now to begin with had NOTHING to do with the core narrative of whether Banyue deserves to live?


Miyabi absolutely did not have character built up from early season 1. She had an aura farming moment where she did jackshit to the giant kaiju and then ****** off. You could not discern anything of narrartive value from the early moment in the season other than "Miyabi's pretty cool."

The only other thing she had was an epilogue where she mentions how she's looking for the people responsible for the fall of the Capital. And if that counts fo narrative seeding, then so does Shiyuan talking about his sister and the burden of the qingming blade all the way back at the beginning of season 2.


She swings the sword cool. THAT'S IT
 
No, she does not. I can't see how people are so critical of YSG but wanna pretend like Miyabi's character arc isn't two plot points in a trench coat pretending to be an arc.

Much of everything that can be said of Season 2 can be equally said of Season 1.

(Don't try and pretend like Villains were EVER GOOD)

And i'd very definitively say nothing that came of the later chapters are demonstrably better either.

The entire final stretch of 2.8 relies on Remielle telling you jackshit and you falling into a bad situation blind.

And neither Vespa nor Romuel are standout antagonists that are remarkably better than anything that came before.


Everything is the same as it's always been.
No it's great! Come on you just don't see the vision!
 
No it's great! Come on you just don't see the vision!
I like hype and aura.

I aint gonna pretend hype and aura is good writing.

Nobody gonna ***** at me about YSG's writing and then turn around try and sell me on the idea of Miyabi just shrugging off her Sword's crazy devil deal because "feelings" that culminate in the proxy (Who she met that morning) is somehow amazing writing.
 
The issue is that Ye Shunguang has:
1. No established presence: Miyabi had been introduced since the beginning of the story, Ye Shunguang was introduced midway
2. Her self-sacrificial nature comes off as insanely self-righteous and annoying and Ye Shunguang just trying to get herself killed
3. The final chapter glances over too much shit that would have made this approach to her even richer, so falls off even harder from missed opportunities

Miyabi isn't worth much but she also doesn't have too much buzzing around her, which along with her personality, means you don't get much out of her anyway. She doesn't set too high expectations so there's less of a feeling the story fumbled. Ye Shunguang tackles themes of self-sacrifice and it's all so crammed in that you just feel like she's just being a purity sue and getting herself killed. The final chapter imo just glances over too much shit that would have made this approach to her even richer, so falls off even harder from missed opportunities

I'd say the first season does better in making you feel like the story was connected in threads. You get the torched past from Cunning Hares thwarting a corporate conspiracy, to Belobog seizing on the business opportunity to PubSec investigating the Sacrifice recovered to Victoria Housekeeping trying to thwart rebels attempting to rescue Perlman, then heading to the Outer Ring to get Perlman, and then switching hands to Section 6

The Sacrifice plotline in the second season was absolutely disappointing given every major threat from that antagonist was being squandered at the end of the chapter. They literally had to reuse Isolde twice through Merovakh and the Defiler. Spook Shack was apparently just doing whatever it wanted, and the threads to the next chapters were incredibly thin and just sidenotes
 
See, I consider all of that basically a crock of shit.

I have no clue how you could remotely think that Banyue, the crux character of 2.4 is shafted in his chapter When the entire chapter is effectively focused on his actions and how they impacted the survivors and how Dialyn views him and how he views himself.

Pretending like YSG erodes Banyue, of all character's, position in the narrative makes me intensely question what story you were reading.

Do you think YSG talking about how important Banyue was to her childhood and why she's even here now to begin with had NOTHING to do with the core narrative of whether Banyue deserves to live?
fair points, it's admittedly been a while since i played through 2.4 so i guess the shungus stuff stuck out to me more

The issue is that Ye Shunguang has:
1. No established presence: Miyabi had been introduced since the beginning of the story, Ye Shunguang was introduced midway
2. Her self-sacrificial nature comes off as insanely self-righteous and annoying and Ye Shunguang just trying to get herself killed
3. The final chapter glances over too much shit that would have made this approach to her even richer, so falls off even harder from missed opportunities

Miyabi isn't worth much but she also doesn't have too much buzzing around her, which along with her personality, means you don't get much out of her anyway. She doesn't set too high expectations so there's less of a feeling the story fumbled. Ye Shunguang tackles themes of self-sacrifice and it's all so crammed in that you just feel like she's just being a purity sue and getting herself killed. The final chapter imo just glances over too much shit that would have made this approach to her even richer, so falls off even harder from missed opportunities
this is moreso my issue yeah. it just ties into the overarching issue that we don't actually get to even see shunguang until 2.3. given the specific themes they wanted to cover with shunguang about self-sacrifice, it just feels like they could have tied her into the narrative of season 2 a lot better. a lot of people complained about yixuan constantly appearing and saving the day in story patches that shouldn't have really even involved her, and a lot of people also complained about her just being written out of specific story scenarios so that there could be actual stakes, and i feel like both of those issues could have been solved if shunguang was introduced earlier on into the season. it also would've made her relationship with the proxy feel less forced if it was actually built up throughout the entire season rather than just essentially being crammed into two chapters (though in general, you can probably just point to that being an issue of ZZZ's story writing as a whole rather than just S2 specifically)
 
is there some sort of video to just lore dump me? Don't need another gacha on my phone, Dragon Ball legends alr drives me mad
 
Much of everything that can be said of Season 2 can be equally said of Season 1.

(Don't try and pretend like Villains were EVER GOOD)

Everything is the same as it's always been.
See, I consider all of that basically a crock of shit.

I have no clue how you could remotely think that Banyue, the crux character of 2.4 is shafted in his chapter

Pretending like YSG erodes Banyue, of all character's, position in the narrative makes me intensely question what story you were reading.

She swings the sword cool. THAT'S IT
Okay, look. Masked isn't going to pretend ZZZ's storytelling is groundbreaking.
But same as it's always been?
If you question what story we're reading, then Masked would also like to question what story you're reading.

Sarah wasn't an amazing villain, but she had an overarching story.
She made plans and followed through with them.
The story was interconnected with each of her little schemes, as Phaethon tried to put the pieces together.
  1. Pretend to be a secretary and use Perlman/Vision as a puppet
  2. Acquire land, and by extension a Sacrifice
  3. Silence Perlman
  4. Silence Perlman 2, and use Bringer to silence Section 6
  5. Acquire Miyabi's power for use in a new Sacrifice serum
In most of Season 2, the villains had plans, but didn't really follow through.
Phaethon is mostly just trying to clean up after the villains, and the plot just kind of spins it wheels as we wait for the finale.

Make a copy of Yixuan's memories for evil purposes - and then what? The copy dies with absolutely zero consequences.
Make a town of Lotus Eaters based around Yidhari, which also doesn't really tie into anything. Sarah used Yidhari and moved on.
Merge with The Creator - oh wait it's a fake, just a Messenger of The Creator.
And now Sarah's gone, so the buildup just kind of led to nothing.

Now, regarding Miyabi
She's a known constant in the ZZZ world.
She's built up as a powerful warrior and an important guardian of the city.
We only get small bits throughout the season, but we learn
  1. She's not afraid to go against the will of her superiors, or confront massive threats.
  2. She doesn't care about status, and skips a ceremony to recruit Section 6
  3. She's close with Section 6, and they're generally like a small family.
  4. She's childhood friends with Zhu Yuan.
  5. She has a personal vendetta against the instigators of Hollow Zero
  6. She can lose control of Tailless due to her emotions
Ye Shunguang only has a few chapters to establish her identity, and no one really talks about her as a person.
It's mostly just Ye Shiyuan muttering about how he has to save her until her introduction.
The issue is that Ye Shunguang has:
1. No established presence: Miyabi had been introduced since the beginning of the story, Ye Shunguang was introduced midway
2. Her self-sacrificial nature comes off as insanely self-righteous and annoying and Ye Shunguang just trying to get herself killed
3. The final chapter glances over too much shit that would have made this approach to her even richer, so falls off even harder from missed opportunities
it just ties into the overarching issue that we don't actually get to even see shunguang until 2.3. given the specific themes they wanted to cover with shunguang about self-sacrifice, it just feels like they could have tied her into the narrative of season 2 a lot better.
  1. yixuan constantly appearing and saving the day in story patches that shouldn't have really even involved her, and a lot of people also complained about her just being written out of specific story scenarios so that there could be actual stakes, and i feel like both of those issues could have been solved if shunguang was introduced earlier on into the season.
  2. it also would've made her relationship with the proxy feel less forced if it was actually built up throughout the entire season rather than just essentially being crammed into two chapters (though in general, you can probably just point to that being an issue of ZZZ's story writing as a whole rather than just S2 specifically)
Anyway, while Masked was typing this two other people went over the points Masked just wrote, so.
Yeah.
Edit:
Nobody gonna ***** at me about YSG's writing and then turn around try and sell me on the idea of Miyabi just shrugging off her Sword's crazy devil deal because "feelings" that culminate in the proxy (Who she met that morning) is somehow amazing writing.
Also what are you talking about.
Miyabi "shrugs off" her Sword's crazy devil deal by making a deal with it.
There's no feelings involved.
Are we reading the same story?
 
Last edited:
Shocker that cramming two Void Hunter levels into a single season was going to cause a fight for the story's attention. Ye Shunguang's story literally could have been molded into Yixuan's and vice versa and the story and the character would have been better off for it. Instead, we get 1 chapter Yixuan characterization just for her to just sit around and never be utilized beyond being a rescuer.

And then the story sits down and plays with its dick with Spook Shack instead of taking us right away to Ye Shunguang, which again, works for Miyabi because Miyabi has no expectations to measure again and also they weren't going for anything grand because why would they? It's the first VH you'll encounter. Ye Shunguang's themes are good and the direction is good, the execution is meh because the story tried to juggle it in equal importance with the rest of the nobodies in the game.

I like Spook Shack for the record, but those goobers did not deserve two chapters
 
Make a copy of Yixuan's memories for evil purposes - and then what? The copy dies with absolutely zero consequences.
Make a town of Lotus Eaters based around Yidhari, which also doesn't really tie into anything. Sarah used Yidhari and moved on.
Merge with The Creator - oh wait it's a fake, just a Messenger of The Creator.
And now Sarah's gone, so the buildup just kind of led to nothing.
maaaaannnnn the yijiang ethereal and the whole miasma town are such big missed opportunities. i was so disappointed to see the yijiang ethereal get dispatched in season 2, honestly would've made for a cool overarching threat for the season and it would've actually been a good way to write yixuan out of the story if she wasn't needed (just have her investigate/hold off the ethereal and just make it comparable to her in strength)

the miasma town also could've been a cool overarching plot, but yeah, it just getting dealt with in a single patch was pretty lame too. and sarah especially got the worst of it, she was basically like our one overarching villain and her entire character basically amounted to nothing
 
Shocker that cramming two Void Hunter levels into a single season was going to cause a fight for the story's attention. Ye Shunguang's story literally could have been molded into Yixuan's and vice versa and the story and the character would have been better off for it. Instead, we get 1 chapter Yixuan characterization just for her to just sit around and never be utilized beyond being a rescuer.
i really hope S3 handles this better with remielle and sunbringer. both at least have the advantage of being introduced and teased early on, and we at least have some small tidbits of their dynamic and the fact that they're seemingly at odds with each other, so i'm hoping that it'll be handled better than the shungus and yixuan stuff

Disrespecting Peak in Big 2026 🥹
"peak" being used to describe DBL
son.png
 
Okay, look. Masked isn't going to pretend ZZZ's storytelling is groundbreaking.
But same as it's always been?
If you question what story we're reading, then Masked would also like to question what story you're reading.

Sarah wasn't an amazing villain, but she had an overarching story.
She made plans and followed through with them.
The story was interconnected with each of her little schemes, as Phaethon tried to put the pieces together.
  1. Pretend to be a secretary and use Perlman/Vision as a puppet
  2. Acquire land, and by extension a Sacrifice
  3. Silence Perlman
  4. Silence Perlman 2, and use Bringer to silence Section 6
  5. Acquire Miyabi's power for use in a new Sacrifice serum
I will start with this because this is all post hoc justification.

Much of what you list out is not properly set up or laid out within the confines of the chapters.

1. and 3 are properly set up within the aspect of the chapters they exist within. It's very clearly signposted within chapter 1 and chapter 3 that is what Sarah is doing.

2 and 4 Has no basis within the chapters proper. There is no indication or allusion that Sarah is tied to the Sacrifice plot until her and Bringer directly talk about it in chapter 4. The story has to flagrantly spell out their involvement in other chapters because that information doesn't actually exist in those chapters at all.

5. Is just completely incorrect. The acquiring of Miyabi's powers are not related to the Sacrifice Serum. It is in fact an extension of the Bringer plot to remove Section 6, but I'm not surprised you got that mixed up because the narrative is so shoddy in really saying what the villains are doing.

In most of Season 2, the villains had plans, but didn't really follow through.
Phaethon is mostly just trying to clean up after the villains, and the plot just kind of spins it wheels as we wait for the finale.

This statement is functionally no different from Season 1. All Phaethon does in that is follow up on what the villains are doing ahead of them as well.

I also inherently disagree that the plot just spins its wheels as we await the finale.

EVERY single chapter of Season 2 builds onto the next one.

2.0 begins with a plot by the exaltists to frame Porcelumex and experiment on the miners. This plot is foiled and forces the city to turn its eyes to waifei and send inspectors and military respresentatives into Waifei.

Which "conveniently" (Cause it was the plan) allows the Exaltist released Ethereal to expose that Porcelumex was doing major human experiments AND that the exaltists were producing so many Sacrifices that the Military had too take over in 2.1.

Then 2.2 reveals that the machinations that placed Porcelumex, the Exaltists and the military in these positions were all the plan of Isolde to ensure her revenge on the leads of Porcelumex and the General of the military.

It's at this point where Sarah, the second in command, can ascend and begin her plans that she believes are much better than Isoldes, but can't act on because, she's not the one in charge.

2.3 and 2.4 shows us exactly what Sarah's plans are both by using Yidhari and the Miasma relay in order to force the Creator to Descend

And then 2.5 is a culmination of interacting with the creator, getting further explanation of what's actually behind the exaltists and getting a look at the persistent capitalist interests of TOPS, which is embodied throughout Season 2.

Season 1's interconnectivity doesn't hold a candle.

Make a copy of Yixuan's memories for evil purposes - and then what? The copy dies with absolutely zero consequences.

Use it to expose what Porcelumex is doing in Waifei, leading to the city being placed under Martial Law by the military.


Make a town of Lotus Eaters based around Yidhari, which also doesn't really tie into anything. Sarah used Yidhari and moved on.

It's almost like the Drowned Ideals were a completely unexpected side effect of the actual goal and not a plan in itself.


The situation basically exists so that the protagonists aren't basically left with nothing to speak of and no way of moving forward.

How is that any different than the belabog machines conveniently hearing the prototype which leads us to the sacrifice.

It's just a situation that tangentially seems unrelated but ultimately helps us progress forward.

Merge with The Creator - oh wait it's a fake, just a Messenger of The Creator.

Clearly did not pay attention to what was stated. That is not a fake, it is the creator. What is actually is, is just a proxy of its power. That doesn't mean what we interacted with isn't the creator. It just means it's an avatar so the problem isn't completely resolved in one go.


And now Sarah's gone, so the buildup just kind of led to nothing.

She's still within the Gestalt that is the creator. And her memories clearly tie into the mystery of the First Generation of Void Hunters considering her past relates to her being abandoned by one of them.

Now, regarding Miyabi

She's a known constant in the ZZZ world.

She's built up as a powerful warrior and an important guardian of the city.

We only get small bits throughout the season, but we learn

She's not afraid to go against the will of her superiors, or confront massive threats.
She doesn't care about status, and skips a ceremony to recruit Section 6
She's close with Section 6, and they're generally like a small family.

All of this particular information comes from external promotional videos one week ahead of her patch, none of it is actually in the game proper.


She's childhood friends with Zhu Yuan.
She has a personal vendetta against the instigators of Hollow Zero

Okay, we learn that YSG is Ye Shiyuan's sister in 2.0, that's not particularly amazing characterization.

Her personal vendetta plays basically zero role in the active narrative of the chapter she's the focus of. Her role in that plot wouldn't change even slightly if that detail didn't exist.

That's also ignoring that she has no substantive rapport with either Sarah or Bringer for that factor to matter.

She can lose control of Tailless due to her emotions


This is basically the exact same as YSG. But worse written and resolved.

Ye Shunguang only has a few chapters to establish her identity, and no one really talks about her as a person.

Yeah, almost as if the narrative intent is about how YSG's status as the Qingming Sword's wielder has led to people dehumanizing her and disregarding her own wants.

Crazy, like it's plot intention or something!


It's mostly just Ye Shiyuan muttering about how he has to save her until her introduction.
I'm sorry, you wanna use the promo material to bolster miyabi's character... but want to ignore the promotional material that very clearly tells us in no uncertain terms what the Qingming Sword does and why it's a problem? (Oh and by the way, the actual story does that too. Unlike with miyabi's promo material. Yixuan actually does talk about why the Qingming Sword is very bad in the actual game itself.) Novel CONCEPT


Miyabi "shrugs off" her Sword's crazy devil deal by making a deal with it.

There's no feelings involved.

Are we reading the same story?

I say she shrugs it off because the actual narrative build up for the moment is tepid. It's nebulous as to the impact and there's been no substantive or tangible follow up as to what it means. Also ignoring that the "deal with the devil" is basically Miyabi just going "I'm going to do what I want and you're going to agree."
 
The fact that you say you pay attention doesn't magically make the threads in the story good, you know. You have to actively try and make sense of these and putting too much onus on the viewer to "understand" a plot is just protecting what could have been improved.

I've no skin in the game with S1, it's like Mondstadt, bland and we had no preconceptions. S2 had the benefit of setup and still did the same. S1 had no expectations, S2 set them and failed.
 
The fact that you say you pay attention doesn't magically make the threads in the story good, you know. You have to actively try and make sense of these and putting too much onus on the viewer to "understand" a plot is just protecting what could have been improved.

I've no skin in the game with S1, it's like Mondstadt, bland and we had no preconceptions. S2 had the benefit of setup and still did the same. S1 had no expectations, S2 set them and failed.

Please highlight where I said that.

Cause I didn't.

I said much of ZZZ's story has not changed and many of its problems exist before and after Season 2.
 
The only thing peak about DBL is Goresh. Been watching him for years now, up till this day and haven’t touched the game since transforming Bardock (the red one)
i think i stopped playing a little before legends fest 2024 (it was right after the LF transforming broly released i think)

i still watch goresh and raiyuden's videos though, i do like to keep up with the game even if i don't play it anymore
 
Please highlight where I said that.

Cause I didn't.

I said much of ZZZ's story has not changed and many of its problems exist before and after Season 2.
Yeah but said problems weren't really problems for S1 contextually. Again, no preconceptions. The story has more freedom. We can say S2 is worse for just being S1 again despite the benefit of setup and context. I don't necessarily think them being the same means they're the same level of quality.

It's like when you're served fries as an appetizer and then when you're served the next course, it's just fries again. They're the same, but you were expecting better with the latter. And this is not the fault of the viewer because we saw the work being done in S1 to hype our expectations for the next stage just for it to go out like a wet fart when it actually happened.
 
Much of what you list out is not properly set up or laid out within the confines of the chapters.

1. and 3 are properly set up within the aspect of the chapters they exist within. It's very clearly signposted within chapter 1 and chapter 3 that is what Sarah is doing.

2 and 4 Has no basis within the chapters proper. There is no indication or allusion that Sarah is tied to the Sacrifice plot until her and Bringer directly talk about it in chapter 4. The story has to flagrantly spell out their involvement in other chapters because that information doesn't actually exist in those chapters at all.

5. Is just completely incorrect. The acquiring of Miyabi's powers are not related to the Sacrifice Serum. It is in fact an extension of the Bringer plot to remove Section 6, but I'm not surprised you got that mixed up because the narrative is so shoddy in really saying what the villains are doing.
Yes, the story doesn't indicate that Sarah is tied to the Sacrifice plot because the Sacrifice is the reveal for Chapter 2.
The reader can infer that she wanted the land for this reason.

Ah yes, she acquired Miyabi's powers and put them into the Sacrifice Serum for no reason.
Bringer can manifest a false version of the "Cursed Blade" for no reason, too.
These are obviously not related whatsoever.
This statement is functionally no different from Season 1. All Phaethon does in that is follow up on what the villains are doing ahead of them as well.

I also inherently disagree that the plot just spins its wheels as we await the finale.

2.3 and 2.4 shows us exactly what Sarah's plans are both by using Yidhari and the Miasma relay in order to force the Creator to Descend

And then 2.5 is a culmination of interacting with the creator, getting further explanation of what's actually behind the exaltists
Season 1's interconnectivity doesn't hold a candle.

"In most of Season 2"
- Masked

The points that Masked agrees with are in relation to Isolde, who is regarded as one of the best parts of Season 2 for a reason.
They then kill her, and all the stuff related to her exits the story for a while.

Your listing of Yidhari proves Masked's point, as they introduce her and her cool powers, before then pivoting away.
Why was Yidhari so special, so necessary?

It's almost like the Drowned Ideals were a completely unexpected side effect of the actual goal and not a plan in itself.

The situation basically exists so that the protagonists aren't basically left with nothing to speak of and no way of moving forward.

How is that any different than the belabog machines conveniently hearing the prototype which leads us to the sacrifice.

It's just a situation that tangentially seems unrelated but ultimately helps us progress forward.

Clearly did not pay attention to what was stated. That is not a fake, it is the creator. What is actually is, is just a proxy of its power. That doesn't mean what we interacted with isn't the creator. It just means it's an avatar so the problem isn't completely resolved in one go.

She's still within the Gestalt that is the creator. And her memories clearly tie into the mystery of the First Generation of Void Hunters considering her past relates to her being abandoned by one of them.
"Clearly did not pay attention"
It is a fake. It calls itself The Creator, but it's just a Messenger.
It's a simple proxy of its power, and the Mayor implies that one had been created in the past.
It doesn't have access to the full extent of The Creator, as demonstrated by its limitations.

If this Gestalt thing pans out for you, then great.
This part is subjective, and it just doesn't feel satisfying to Masked.

Yeah, almost as if the narrative intent is about how YSG's status as the Qingming Sword's wielder has led to people dehumanizing her and disregarding her own wants.

Crazy, like it's plot intention or something!
Is that supposed to make her portions of the story more interesting?
Plot intention and what actually gets communicated to the player are two different things.
The constant back-and-forth of her wanting to sacrifice herself and people telling her not to gets tiring.
I'm sorry, you wanna use the promo material to bolster miyabi's character... but want to ignore the promotional material that very clearly tells us in no uncertain terms what the Qingming Sword does and why it's a problem? (Oh and by the way, the actual story does that too. Unlike with miyabi's promo material. Yixuan actually does talk about why the Qingming Sword is very bad in the actual game itself.) Novel CONCEPT
"Ignore the promotional material"
Masked has acknowledge the promotional material for Ye Shunguang.
If she was introduced sooner, and had more time to expand on her character, it would have been better.

I can do this all day.

Cause unlike some *************, I pay attention.

Good for you.
If you're just going to insult people, then perhaps it is best if you stop.
You're obviously not in a good headspace to continue this.
 
Yeah but said problems weren't really problems for S1 contextually. Again, no preconceptions. The story has more freedom. We can say S2 is worse for just being S1 again despite the benefit of setup and context. I don't necessarily think them being the same means they're the same level of quality.

It's like when you're served fries as an appetizer and then when you're served the next course, it's just fries again. They're the same, but you were expecting better with the latter. And this is not the fault of the viewer because we saw the work being done in S1 to hype our expectations for the next stage just for it to go out like a wet fart when it actually happened.

This discussion began off of highlighting people tlaking about the story being back or better now in the post season 2. And I brought up the same issues still persist.

So it's going

"Yo fries"
"aw man, fries..."
"YO FRIES"
 
Man when I jokingly replied to Panda's comment earlier I didn't expect a discussion bout the story to occur lol
discussion might be a bit too serious of a word idk maybe somth sillier wouldbe billy
 
Yes, the story doesn't indicate that Sarah is tied to the Sacrifice plot because the Sacrifice is the reveal for Chapter 2.
The reader can infer that she wanted the land for this reason.

Nowhere is it stated that the land she wants is directly tied to the sacrifice. We're only told that it's a section that's connected to the Old Capital. The problem is, The old Capital is a vast expanse of territory, and they tell us as much. Nothing in chapter 2 infers or alludes that the location is near where chapter 1 is. It oculd have been in a completely different district considering the Old Capital is massive.

Ah yes, she acquired Miyabi's powers and put them into the Sacrifice Serum for no reason.
Bringer can manifest a false version of the "Cursed Blade" for no reason, too.
These are obviously not related whatsoever.
They didn't put it into the Sacrifice Serum, they don't allude to them having done that either. They only reference that they got the ID signature from Miyabi.

There's no way to know if the serum is related or not considering Sarah was able to handle the blade without turning into a Sacrifice.



"In most of Season 2"

- Masked

Which i went through pointing how it all interconnects. You reposting your statement doesn't mean I didn't prove you wrong. This does nothing to refute my point.

The points that Masked agrees with are in relation to Isolde, who is regarded as one of the best parts of Season 2 for a reason.

They then kill her, and all the stuff related to her exits the story for a while.

Yes, when stories resolve... they resolve. That's generally how plots work.

Your listing of Yidhari proves Masked's point, as they introduce her and her cool powers, before then pivoting away.

Why was Yidhari so special, so necessary?

This is a nonpoint.

Why was Rain important for Chapter 3? Because she's a hacker who could hack the blimp.

Why was Yidhari important for 2.3? Because she's a unique proxy who can see echoes of the past.

Their role in the narrative is why they are there. This complaint says nothing.

"Clearly did not pay attention"

It is a fake. It calls itself The Creator, but it's just a Messenger.

It's a simple proxy of its power, and the Mayor implies that one had been created in the past.

It doesn't have access to the full extent of The Creator, as demonstrated by its limitations.

It's a fake in so much as it's not the creator coming down specifically. If the Creator makes a clone to fight you, that doesn't mean you weren't dealing with nor talking to the creator.

If a ninja is arguing with Naruto and Naruto decides to fight him using a shadow clone, that doesn't mean Naruto wasn't still dealing with that person.


If this Gestalt thing pans out for you, then great.

This part is subjective, and it just doesn't feel satisfying to Masked.

They literally tell us multiple times that the Creator is an amalgamation of multiple beings and things and that its ultimate goal is to effectively consume/merge with all/everyone.

it's very obviously a Gestalt.

Is that supposed to make her portions of the story more interesting?

Plot intention and what actually gets communicated to the player are two different things.

The constant back-and-forth of her wanting to sacrifice herself and people telling her not to gets tiring.


I never told you you had to be interested in anything my guy. I'm not your parent.

I'm saying that highlighting an intentional narrative point as a criticism is dumb.

You basically said "Can you believe that they did this plot point" as a complaint. It doesn't mean anything.

And saying

"Plot intention and what actually gets communicated to the player are two different things."

Is kinda funny since you very clearly stated what they were doing. So they obviously communicated what they wanted to you very clearly.

"Ignore the promotional material"

Masked has acknowledge the promotional material for Ye Shunguang.

If she was introduced sooner, and had more time to expand on her character, it would have been better.


An utterly arbitrary distinction that means nothing.


Good for you.

If you're just going to insult people, then perhaps it is best if you stop.

You're obviously not in a good headspace to continue this.

That second one wasn't even towards you, and wouldn't even be an insult if it was.
 
My only big question is why did it take billy this long to get an upgrade?

He even said in the story that most of the cost was the express shipping so I'm just wondering why he waited until now to get the gear.
 
My only big question is why did it take billy this long to get an upgrade?

He even said in the story that most of the cost was the express shipping so I'm just wondering why he waited until now to get the gear.
probably just a mix of not really feeling like he needed it + being too broke to afford it if i had to guess lol

he says himself that part of the reason why he got the express shipping was because of the ongoing situation with tracking down remielle, so i imagine he probably just saw it as a good opportunity to upgrade himself + he got the "approval" from nicole to take out of his allowance
 
@PandaCooler Man, I don't want to be too harsh but your comments make you looks like CinemaSins in term of ranting

Yes we get it, ZZZ story is flawed, and so does everyone here acknowledge it, but you seems to make it such of massive big deal
 
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