How we treat abilities used against lower Ds

[PrinceofPein]

So I realized most characters with abilities such as; Fate manipulation, plot manipulation, Existence Erasure e.t.c. have those abilities because of them controlling plots or fates of characters with which they have an ontological difference or view as fiction.
But somehow when they are used in battles here against a character with the same dimensionality, they are allowed to use those powers even though they never used it against someone who stands on the same plane as them.

To clarify better, i can take a comic book and erase whatever part i want, and replace it with whatever story I want or ending or event. While that's plot manipulation, fate manipulation and existence Erasure, that does not mean I can go down the street and do the same to anyone i see. I can only do that due to the way I view the comic and the difference between us.
So it makes no sense when we also do it for characters who have only shown the abilities against lower D but not against their own level of reality.

Anyway this thread is simply to propose that, unless they have been shown to use the ability against someone of the same dimensionality, we restrict the ability to the confines of what they were shown to be capable of doing in VS battles.
I.e. Such abilities which fall into this category should have their potency noted on the characters page

 

[TheGatememer]

I mean if their hax has only been shown to work on lower dimensions then their hax doesn’t scale to their own dimensionality, simple as that.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Anyway this thread is simply to propose that, unless they have been shown to use the ability against someone of the same dimensionality, we restrict the ability to the confines of what they were shown to be capable of doing in VS battles.

This was obvious already

 

[PrinceofPein]

This was obvious already

No it was not done that way
You have fate manipulation on your profile and no matter how.you came by it. You can use it

 

[Nightshade]

Makes sense.
Evidence would determine.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

No it was not done that way
You have fate manipulation on your profile and no matter how.you came by it. You can use it

Post some examples of them being used in versus threads in the OP

 

[PrinceofPein]

Post some examples of them being used in versus threads in the OP

Check all these vs threads of this verses
Umineko
Magi
Marvel
DC

Anything tier 2 and above, has that. Anyone who has been here long enough know and understand what I mean. So it's not really something that is hard to find

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Check all these vs threads of this verses
Umineko
Magi
Marvel
DC

Anything tier 2 and above, has that. Anyone who has been here long enough know and understand what I mean. So it's not really something that is hard to find

Doesn't happen often

 

[PrinceofPein]

Doesn't happen often

Happens everytime the characters involved are in a vs thread, that's all that matters.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Happens everytime the characters involved are in a vs thread, that's all that matters.

It doesn't

 

[Everything12]

Well the power would be 6D in potency, but would only be able to work on 5D and below things, because they specifically function by being on a level above the target.

Their doesn't need to be a new standard, this is just common sense.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well the power would be 6D in potency, but would only be able to work on 5D and below things, because they specifically function by being on a level above the target.

Their doesn't need to be a new standard, this is just common sense.

The thing is I am not proposing a new standard, that's how it is although most times and thread no one exactly follows it
As in featherine threads, she still has plot manipulation and other primordial entities like that have fate manip and EE e.t.c. examples will be DC god tiers and Marvel god tiers even though it is because they used it on lower beings.
And somehow they still are able to use that in vs threads of equal D opponents.

What I am saying is, it should be noted somewhere, either on the characters page or added somewhere on the general page.
But preferably on the characters page, the potency of such abilities

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The thing is I am not proposing a new standard, that's how it is although most times and thread no one exactly follows it
As in featherine threads, she still has plot manipulation and other primordial entities like that have fate manip and EE e.t.c. examples will be DC god tiers and Marvel god tiers even though it is because they used it on lower beings.
And somehow they still are able to use that in vs threads of equal D opponents.

What I am saying is, it should be noted somewhere, either on the characters page or added somewhere on the general page.
But preferably on the characters page, the potency of such abilities

I've never seen anyone do this for a DC and Marvel character. If it happens so often you would be able to give an example

 

[Nierre]

So you mean like it should be noted somewhere on the profiles what the potency in dimensionality is?

 

[PrinceofPein]

So you mean like it should be noted somewhere on the profiles what the potency in dimensionality is?

Yes

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Yes

Edit the OP then

 

[Nierre]

Then I agree.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I mean if their hax has only been shown to work on lower dimensions then their hax doesn’t scale to their own dimensionality, simple as that.

Yeah I agree to this.

If they don't have showings of it working on their own dimensionality, then it shouldn't be assumed they can use these hax on those of the same dimensionality

 

[Delta333]

This is a fact tbh, everyone already knows it and we can just write the justification of abilities on profile properly so that people will understand its potency.

 

[Robo432343]

Agreed

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I moved this thread to our staff forum, since it concerns a wiki policy revision.

Anyway, this suggestion seems to make sense to me at least.

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Andytrenom @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz

What do you think?

 

[Vondoom]

OP makes sense, some higher dimensional entity abilities only work on lessers and not on beings on the same level of existence as they are.

 

[Robo432343]

I agree with Antvasima

 

[DontTalkDT]

One can really say that for every power. Plot Manipulation just as much as soul hax.
Ideally, any page gives explanations of mechanics that indicates the potency of individual abilities if they notably differ.
While more extensive explanations regarding any aspect of abilities is always desirable, I think there is no need to make it a rule.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think?

The most I really see is just making a section in the FAQ about dimensionality and how it applies to certain powers.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with DT

 

[KingTempest]

I think certain abilities should fall under this and certain ones should not.

Like soul manip, spatial hax, telekinesis, etc. should follow a different criteria than plot manip, reality warping, and Existence Erasure

 

[Tatsumi504]

Agree, this is basically the same as the last thread about indexing layers of hax on the profiles.
Will be hard to implement for characters with entire hax walls though

 

[PrinceofPein]

I am not saying we should apply potency for every ability on every character, that is unreasonable and will be unnecessarily hard.
I am just saying for abilities that specifically work only on lower Ds in a verse, no reason to assume it will work on someone of the same Dimensionality.
Same way we tend to note somewhere on profiles that a character is a smurf, we should also note somewhere preferably beside the ability that it only works on lower D.
And this does not have to be done immediately but gradually same way with referencing.

 

[Reiner04]

It's deserve to be in faq page as qawsed said if making an entire page is not needed.

 

[Reiner04]

Also as kingtempest said some abilities are independent of dimensional existence such as soul manipulation, telekinesis, they would render unaffected if a dimensional being has it, should as well has to be taken in note.

And this does not have to be done immediately but gradually same way with referencing

It shouldn't kept on hold to be done as it's quite clear to be applied for ig.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not saying we should apply potency for every ability on every character, that is unreasonable and will be unnecessarily hard.
I am just saying for abilities that specifically work only on lower Ds in a verse, no reason to assume it will work on someone of the same Dimensionality.
Same way we tend to note somewhere on profiles that a character is a smurf, we should also note somewhere preferably beside the ability that it only works on lower D.
And this does not have to be done immediately but gradually same way with referencing.

@DontTalkDT

 

[DontTalkDT]

I stand by what I initially said.
It's a good practice to do. Spot a page where you know the details, then feel free to add it. We never prevent more detailed information.
But I still don't think it needs to be a rule or wiki project.
Similar to how an explanation of how fast Regeneration is is desirable, but I don't think there is a need to make a rule about it.

 

[Reiner04]

but I don't think there is a need to make a rule about it.

It can be added in versus thread rule that characters with same dimensionality will have their particular abilities disabled when facing other characters of same dimensionality for the reason specified in the OP, maybe?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, DontTalkDT.

 

[Aachintya31]

There are also lower dimensional beings which can affect higher dimensional beings with their hax. We also don't list them as such.

 

[Antvasima]

I stand by what I initially said.
It's a good practice to do. Spot a page where you know the details, then feel free to add it. We never prevent more detailed information.
But I still don't think it needs to be a rule or wiki project.
Similar to how an explanation of how fast Regeneration is is desirable, but I don't think there is a need to make a rule about it.

So should we mention this approach anywhere in our instruction pages?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I stand by what I initially said.
It's a good practice to do. Spot a page where you know the details, then feel free to add it. We never prevent more detailed information.
But I still don't think it needs to be a rule or wiki project.
Similar to how an explanation of how fast Regeneration is is desirable, but I don't think there is a need to make a rule about it.

This is a different scenario, we do have people who generally clarifies the regen and it's easy to determine what a regen does and how fast depending in the type. But 90% of the pages with plot manipulation has it because of their dimensionality and not one of those pages noted it somewhere, which means people don't actually know that it is preferable not as a rule, but better if that is pointed out as a note beneath the page, or a general powers and abilities page.
I can just go to anyone page, and see plot manipulation and obviously I would use it in a vs battle even though he can't exactly or has no proof of using it against someone his tier.
An example of how badly the plot manipulation is been used on the profiles without clarification, these are just a few of them
Overvoid

Type 1), Plot Manipulation, Creation, Large Size (Type 11)

God DC

Manipulation (Type 1), Plot Manipulation

One above all

xistence (Type 2), Plot Manipulation

Featherine

Existence Erasure (Can erase beings out of existence using her plot manipulation)

Akuto sai

Plot Manipulation (Can create any story and manipulate it to his will

All these up above I can simply say they can work against any character of their own dimensionality in a vs thread cause nothing on their profiles said something otherwise, even though they only used it against someone they view as fiction to begin with or because they are the Supreme being of their verse. No clarification on how it works, compared to the one below


Something like this is better at least, this way we can at least infer that it is only for the things he contains
Gan

Plot Manipulation (Is the source and writer of all stories and all stories are contained within The Dark Tower)

Here the page mentioned no potency, but still I can tell this is strictly for things/settings he has ontological difference over.
That up there that actually clarified the ability is fine but something like this should be preferable.

Plot Manipulation (6D, Could write characters into the coxoxo)

I am not saying we should make it as a rule, but it should be noted somewhere, that that is our preferable formats for abilities like this


Don't let me get started on other abilities like Death manipulation, fate manipulation, Existence Erasure e.t.c. who surfer from something similar

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that Pain_to12 makes sense above.