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Ackermans should not scale to Titans

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Verethragna said:
I personally don't mind 9-A scaling. Ackermans and Pure Titans can be 9-A, Bertolt and anyone scales to him (other warriors, Eren, and anyone scales to them) can be at least 9-B, downscaling from Mikasa due to Bert blocking her attack and not getting oneshotted by her
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Again. He didnt block anything. Why do you keep saying this?
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Again. He didnt block anything. Why do you keep saying this?
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He did, Weekly. Mikasa's attack gets stopped by Bertolt, that's a block. Then it's Mikasa who swings her sword upwards to get out of the block to launch another attack, which cuts Bert's ear off, to which Bertolt responds by spinning around and kicking her away. He doesn't knock her off balance, he legit kicks her away, anime puts even more emphasis on the power behind Bertolt's kick. Mikasa is shown rubbing her arm, something you'd do if you're somewhat hurt.

I don't even need to explain this, the feat is right there, I wrote these many times but you're keep ignoring what I wrote and responding with the same thing. I already agreed with 9-A scaling for Ackermans and Pure Titans getting downgraded to 9-A. If you still insist on 8-C scaling I have nothing else to say to you now.
 
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Verethragna said:
Yes but I think that's mostly an experience thing, Levi is a grown man while Mikasa is 15 years old, I'd say timeskip Mikasa is relative to Levi now
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Yeah, that's it. The only difference between them is experience and speed. Their AP and Dura should be on the same tier.
 
Okay so far we've come to a general agreement that 15m Pure Titans, Levi, and Post TS Mikasa should scale to 9-A
Only thing that's left is to find the dura of titan shifters, smaller Pure Titans and Mikasa Pre-TS.
For Titan Shifters I propose 2 options
1. "At least 9-A, 8-C with Hardening"
2. "9-A, 8-C with Hardening"
For Pure Titans I believe simple is the best, it would simply be "Varies from 9-B to 9-A depending on size"
As for Mikasa Pre-TS idn what we should do with her. She's clearly far above other scout members but she has nothing really to scale of of besides the fact she is an Ackerman which I don't believe is enough evidence to scale her to Levi. We should simply scale her above Human Reiner's durability (0.000115 tons) and maybe add "Possibly higher" to her profile
 
I think the fact that Mikasa was shown to be far superior to humans and able to fight with shifters is enough for her 9-A Ackerman scaling.

Also there's a statement about her being equal to 100 average soldiers. Average soldiers in AoT scale to 324380.211246 joules and if we multiply it by 100 we get 3.2 * 10^7 joules which is 9-A. Mikasa has plenty of feats to support that this statement isn't hyperbolic:

-She casually sent Reiner flying who is previously trained warrior and 2nd best soldier in 104th corps. This shows us that the gap between Mikasa i.e. the best soldier in corps and 2nd best soldier is BIG.
*Note: unlike Annie she didn't use any technique on Reiner it was just raw strength.

-She casually was destroying Kenny squad members who were the most experienced soldiers in terms of killing humans and were using anti-personnel gears. I think they were peak humans in AoT (or closest to peak humans).
*Note: unlike other soldiers (Jean, Connie, Hange) she didn't use any camouflage or weakness of anti-personnel gear when she attacked them.

-She fought with Female Titan on 1v1, dodged all of her attacks and simulatenously was cutting her till she fell down. Something that even 3 elite titan killers (Eld, Oluo and Petra) were struggling to do even though they had way more experience than Mikasa.

-She killed like 5+ Titans in her FIRST battle with ZERO experience with titans. Other soldiers in 104th corps couldn't kill a single Titan, while Mikasa was a lot better than experienced and ranked soldiers of Garrison.
 
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LuciferDC099 said:
I think the fact that Mikasa was shown to be far superior to humans and able to fight with shifters is enough for her 9-A Ackerman scaling.

Also there's a statement about her being equal to 100 average soldiers. Average soldiers in AoT scale to 324380.211246 joules and if we multiply it by 100 we get 3.2 * 10^7 joules which is 9-A. Mikasa has plenty of feats to support that this statement isn't hyperbolic:

-She casually sent Reiner flying who is previously trained warrior and 2nd best soldier in 104th corps. This shows us that the gap between Mikasa i.e. the best soldier in corps and 2nd best soldier is BIG.
*Note: unlike Annie she didn't use any technique on Reiner it was just raw strength.

-She casually was destroying Kenny squad members who were the most experienced soldiers in terms of killing humans and were using anti-personnel gears. I think they were peak humans in AoT (or closest to peak humans).
*Note: unlike other soldiers (Jean, Connie, Hange) she didn't use any camouflage or weakness of anti-personnel gear when she attacked them.

-She fought with Female Titan on 1v1, dodged all of her attacks and simulatenously was cutting her till she fell down. Something that even 3 elite titan killers (Eld, Oluo and Petra) were struggling to do even though they had way more experience than Mikasa.

-She killed like 5+ Titans in her FIRST battle with ZERO experience with titans. Other soldiers in 104th corps couldn't kill a single Titan, while Mikasa was a lot better than experienced and ranked soldiers of Garrison.
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The only thing that holds any merit is probably the strength of 100 soldiers statement. If there's evidence that it's valid then that definitely could solve our problem. It's 9-A but just barely Regular titans are still above her, and Levi scales to a much higher value.
 
Btw anime version also has the same statement. It was stated that she's worth a hundred average soldiers in episode 9.

This scaling makes sense to me. She's still far superior to normal humans but isn't as good as Levi yet due to experience.
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Btw anime version also has the same statement. It was stated that she's worth a hundred average soldiers in episode 9.

This scaling makes sense to me. She's still far superior to normal humans but isn't as good as Levi yet due to experience.
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If we can get others to agree then we could use it.
Though this comes from a single statement which could or could not be exaggeration
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
If we can get others to agree then we could use it.
Though this comes from a single statement which could or could not be exaggeration
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I mean Mikasa was always shown to be far superior to other soldiers, there's also a statement about her being the most talented person who's ever being through training (which makes sense as Levi joined to Survey Corps without being in training corps). There's also plenty of feats to support these statements (like the ones that i wrote in my earlier posts) so i don't see why it could be an exaggeration. Keep in mind that Captain Ian (the one who made "worth a 100 soldiers" statement) saw how Mikasa casually killed titans in her first battle.

But you're right we should wait for more input.
 
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I think Mikasa doesn't need a different key, I can understand Levi being better pretimeskip but not enough to warrant a different tier all together, she should be relative to Levi and Kenny, it doesn't need to be shown, they're all Ackermans

Shifters should ve straight up 8-C, they are far superior to Pure Titans and completely fodderize them. Pure Titans can be 8-C via teeth but their durability should not be any more than 9-A.

Ackermans can be 9-A.

Bertolt and anyone scales to him can be at least 9-B+ due to downscaling from a 9-A
 
LuciferDC099 said:
I think the fact that Mikasa was shown to be far superior to humans and able to fight with shifters is enough for her 9-A Ackerman scaling.

Also there's a statement about her being equal to 100 average soldiers. Average soldiers in AoT scale to 324380.211246 joules and if we multiply it by 100 we get 3.2 * 10^7 joules which is 9-A. Mikasa has plenty of feats to support that this statement isn't hyperbolic:

-She casually sent Reiner flying who is previously trained warrior and 2nd best soldier in 104th corps. This shows us that the gap between Mikasa i.e. the best soldier in corps and 2nd best soldier is BIG.
*Note: unlike Annie she didn't use any technique on Reiner it was just raw strength.

-She casually was destroying Kenny squad members who were the most experienced soldiers in terms of killing humans and were using anti-personnel gears. I think they were peak humans in AoT (or closest to peak humans).
*Note: unlike other soldiers (Jean, Connie, Hange) she didn't use any camouflage or weakness of anti-personnel gear when she attacked them.

-She fought with Female Titan on 1v1, dodged all of her attacks and simulatenously was cutting her till she fell down. Something that even 3 elite titan killers (Eld, Oluo and Petra) were struggling to do even though they had way more experience than Mikasa.

-She killed like 5+ Titans in her FIRST battle with ZERO experience with titans. Other soldiers in 104th corps couldn't kill a single Titan, while Mikasa was a lot better than experienced and ranked soldiers of Garrison.
Click to expand...
Besides throwing Reiner, this all seems like skill rather than strength
 
Also shouldn't pure titans get 8-C via biting force? Since even small titans was able to bit off parts of erens body and female titans body
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Also shouldn't pure titans get 8-C via biting force? Since even small titans was able to bit off parts of erens body and female titans body
Click to expand...
That's what I was saying

Pure Titans should be 9-B/9-A depending on size, 8-C with bite
Ackermans can be 9-A
Bertolt and anyone scales to him are at least 9-B+, downscaling from Ackermans for not getting instantly destroyed by Mikasa
Shifters are 8-C

As long as Ackermans and Shifters are not on the same Tier I'm fine with any scaling
 
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Verethragna said:
That's what I was saying

Pure Titans should be 9-B/9-A depending on size, 8-C with bite
Ackermans can be 9-A
Bertolt and anyone scales to him are at least 9-B+, downscaling from Ackermans for not getting instantly destroyed by Mikasa
Shifters are 8-C

As long as Ackermans and Shifters are not on the same Tier I'm fine with any scaling
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I don't think Shifters should be 8-C without hardening.
They constantly destroy there own bodies with there attacks unless they are hardened in some way.
They should scale unquantifiable above Pure titans or 9-A
They should be 8-C with hardening
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
I don't think Shifters should be 8-C without hardening.
They constantly destroy there own bodies with there attacks unless they are hardened in some way.
They should scale unquantifiable above Pure titans or 9-A
They should be 8-C with hardening
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Shifters have 8-C feats on their profiles and completely fodderize Pure Titans
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Most of Levi's feats are also skill-based. When it comes to ODM Gear feats you need both skill and strength so it doesn't matter that much.
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Aren't we arguing for physical AP though? ODM scales to titans without an issue, its the Ackerman's scaling from Titans physically that is
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Yes, which is why I'm arguing for there Durability to be 9-A not anything else.
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Don't they withstand eachother's attacks, also I have never seen any unequipped Ackerman deal damage to a shifter because they are far more powerful than Pure Titans, who also usually cant deal damage to them without bite force
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
They destroy their own bodies unless they harden themselves
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They do take hits from one another though, Eren took multiple hits from Armored Titan (who was already hardened?) and could still fight. That's the inconsistency I was talking about in the OP regarding all Titans and said no human should scale to them, all humans should straight up be 9-B lol

I was making a compromise by accepting 9-A scaling for Ackermans as long as shifters are 8-C, but they absolutely shouldn't be on the same tier, Kenny gets stomped by an half-transformed Founding Titan with using only one arm

Truth is I don't really buy into unequipped Ackermans being able to fight even Pure Titans evenly, let alone Shifters. They'd get squished, the show itself doesn't even potray it that way usually
 
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CharlesZaGreat said:
Aren't we arguing for physical AP though? ODM scales to titans without an issue, its the Ackerman's scaling from Titans physically that is
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I posted those feats to show that Mikasa is far superior to regular humans and to support "worth a 100 average soldiers" statement. To use ODM gear you need both great strength and skill, and Mikasa uses odm gear far better than regular humans (i.e. "as valuable as 100 average soldiers").
 
Verethragna said:
They do take hits from one another though, Eren took multiple hits from Armored Titan (who was already hardened?) and could still fight. That's the inconsistency I was talking about in the OP regarding all Titans and said no human should scale to them, all humans should straight up be 9-B lol

I was making a compromise by accepting 9-A scaling for Ackermans as long as shifters are 8-C, but they absolutely shouldn't be on the same tier, Kenny gets stomped by an half-transformed Founding Titan with using only one arm

Truth is I don't really buy into unequipped Ackermans being able to fight even Pure Titans evenly, let alone Shifters. They'd get squished, the show itself doesn't even potray it that way usually
Click to expand...
Yeah, Ackermans shouldn't be on the same tier as Shifters. Ackermans and pure Titans should be 9-A (8-C with biting force), and Shifters should be 8-C.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
So are we Scaling Pre-TS Mikasa to 100 the 9-B value for scouts?
It would be 9-A as well but to a much lower degree.
Also I need my calculation to be approved in order to link it on the verse page.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Pure titan Breaks a Wall

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
We can wait for your calculation to be approved, thank you. I don't think 100 soldier should be taken literally, what was meant there was that it would take 100 regular soldiers to defeat her, or she would worth as much as 100 soldiers in terms of efficency. I don't think Mikasa needs another key and don't believe she got stronger, she just got more experienced and older.
 
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