Attack On Titan ODM Blade & Thunder Spear Scaling

[Lilybitdun]

Continuation of this CRT

I'm going to go over how the ODM blades scale in terms of their cutting ap

Spoiler: Surface Area

The main contention with ODM blade ap scaling to titan durability was Surface Area

The issue of "cutting" and "piercing" attacks comes up as a result of the difference in surface area between the character being attacked and object being used in attacking them. Even in real-life, a person can do a lot more damage to somebody else with a sword than they can with their bare hands.

For characters of comparable size it doesn't scale to AP when the weapon can deal damage comparable to it's real life counterpart (I.e stabbing in the hand with a knife). For cases like cutting someone hot dog style with a sword that's clearly an AP feat as that requires more energy than what a normal sword can output

This can also be an issue with giant-sized characters being harmed by somebody much smaller than them. A bee can inflict pain on a human without possessing attack potency anywhere comparable to a human's durability.

A bee is around 700000x smaller than a human. Comparing a human to a 15m titan, the humans are only ~8.77x smaller, that's closer to the size difference of a human and a house cat

A house cat can at best only deal minor damage with it's claws and teeth, the most dangerous part being infection rather than physical damage

Titans are far physically superior, shown with Eren's punch and Carla's punch doing nothing against the same 15m Titan
But with ODM blades humans can

• Chop off 3 fingers in one slice
• Cut through chunks of flesh as large or larger than themselves
• Cut off an entire chunk of the nape much larger than themselves in one slice

Even with inferior iron bamboo blades, past survey corps members were capable of cutting through a 15m titan's legs and cutting off toes

ODM blades are made of ultrahard steel which is stated to be the only material that's tough and flexible enough to rend titan flesh. The ODM blades are called an anti-titan weapon

The inferior Iron Bamboo material doesn't even get scratched by an iron sword with iron bamboo weapons being able to harm Titans. Iron Bamboo is eventually replaced by ultrahard steel

A regular axe can barely cut into the nape of a 3m Titan even after numerous swings and is unable to kill it

As you can see ODM blades are shown to be far superior to physicals and normal iron weapons

If a house cat with it's claws could cut off your fingers and slice chunks out of you in a single swipe would you still consider that only surface area?

Spoiler: Scaling

As proposed in the previous thread, the ODM blades should scale Rod Reiss' Titan due to Historia's feat of slicing through his nape. Hange and Eren's feats of cutting open the Colossal Titan supports this as it can tank hits from the Armored Titan

• ODM blades break on Armored Titan's Armor
• Titan Shifters' Hardening can break the Armored Titan's Armor
• Thunder Spears break both the Armored Titan's Armor and Titan Shifter's Hardening
• Warhammer's Crystallization can tank Thunder Spears with Annie's being comparable
• Jaw Titan's Jaw and Claws can damage and shatter the Warhammer's Crystallization

Rod Reiss' Titan Durability / ODM Blade AP: City Block+, possibly Multi-City Block
Armored Titan's Armor: At least City Block+, possibly at least Multi-City Block
Attack Titan Hardening AP & Durability / Thunder Spears AP: At least City Block+, possibly at least Multi-City Block
War Hammer & Female Titan's Crystallization: At least City Block+, likely higher, possibly at least Multi-City Block
Jaw Titan's Jaws & Claws: At least City Block+, likely higher, possibly at least Multi-City Block

Damage's Suggestion:
ODM blades and ODM blades amped by the speed of an ODM gear will have their own ratings.

Reiner and characters who scale to or above him have their ODM blades scale to the Female Titan's Building level durability due to Reiner being able to cut off three of her fingers without a speed boost
Characters who scale to Reiner:

1. Mikasa (Ranked above Reiner in the training corps and is physically stronger due to Ackerman bloodline. Had an offscreen spar with Annie)
2. Annie (Easily beat Reiner in their spar)
3. Bertolt (Blocked Mikasa's ODM blade strikes)
4. Levi (Far stronger than Mikasa)
5. Kenny (Comparable to Levi)
6. Our Man (Comparable to Mikasa)

Those below Reiner have their ODM blades scale to 15m Titan's Small Building level durability due to inferior Iron Bamboo swords being able to cut through bone of Ogre, a 15m titan, and that ultra-hard steel is an anti-titan weapon + one of the few materials able to rend titan flesh

Sandbox from previous thread shows what the profiles would look with this scaling implemented: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Lilybitdun/Sandbox
Changes

1. Added Damage's suggestion of splitting up ODM blades and ODM blades + ODM gear ap ratings
2. Changed the Kenny's gun durability

Agree: WeeklyBattles, Doggo, Mommyleona, Celestial_Pegasus, Damage3245, Godernet
Disagree:
Neutral:

Spoiler: Previous Thread's Staff Votes

Agree: Godernet
Disagree: Damage3245
Neutral: Nierre, Finepoint

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm obviously in favor of scaling the weapons in ap but not the wielders

 

[Lilybitdun]

A house cat can at best only deal minor damage with it's claws and teeth, the most dangerous part being infection rather than physical damage

If a house cat with it's claws could cut off your fingers and slice chunks out of you in a single swipe would you still consider that only surface area?

I got attacked by a cat after this

 

[DragoZeroNova]

I got attacked by a cat after this

Did the cat take chunks out of you?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Did the cat take chunks out of you?

Nope

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Nope

I think the cat disagrees with the surface scaling premise

 

[Lilybitdun]

I don't think this is what they meant by field testing

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I got attacked by a cat after this

Domestic Cat

The Cat, also known as housecat, alley cat or Domestic Cat, is small, furry mammal. It is a subspecies F. s. catus belonging to the species Felis silvestris in the family Felidae. This animal is the most popular pet in the world. Tier: 10-C, 9-C kinetic energy, higher via piercing damage Name...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Funny you bring up cats specifically seeing as theyre tier 9 with their claws

 

[Lilybitdun]

Domestic Cat

The Cat, also known as housecat, alley cat or Domestic Cat, is small, furry mammal. It is a subspecies F. s. catus belonging to the species Felis silvestris in the family Felidae. This animal is the most popular pet in the world. Tier: 10-C, 9-C kinetic energy, higher via piercing damage Name...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Funny you bring up cats specifically seeing as theyre tier 9 with their claws

I'm Street level

but anyways just waiting for staff to eventually show up (CRT hasn't been open for even a full day yet so I'm pretty patient)
putting the last CRT in the promotion thread didn't do anything but I'll post this one in there to just for prosperity sake

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Doggo]

I agree with this

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

I see you lurking Nierre

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Is there anything that needs to be discussed or is it just waiting for staff

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Excellence616]

s it just waiting for staff

waiting for staffs

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

Probably message staffs on their wall. Message alot of them

 

[Lilybitdun]

Probably message staffs on their wall. Message alot of them

already have

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Mommyleona]

bump hell
i agree

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeaaaah there aint a lot of staff who know this verse so this is gonna take a while

 

[Dalesean027]

snip

@Godernet @Damage3245 @Nierre @FinePoint pinging since yall were named and involved in the previous thread

 

[Damage3245]

I think that a possible solution to this is to list the AP rating as being both with the ODM blade, and with ODM maneuvering gear which provides a massive speed boost to the fighters and gives their strikes a lot more energy than they would have just swinging their sword on their own. It's what allows them to blitz past Titans and cut through their napes.

The most notable feat here which isn't enhanced by ODM maneuvering gear is Reiner cutting off three of Annie's fingers - but Reiner is one of the strongest Scouts trainees in the series, ebing ranked directly behind Mikasa. I don't see most typical soldiers armed by ODM blades being able ot recreate Reiner's feat of cutting himself free. For most soldiers being grabbed by a titan is a death sentence.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I think that a possible solution to this is to list the AP rating as being both with the ODM blade, and with ODM maneuvering gear which provides a massive speed boost to the fighters and gives their strikes a lot more energy than they would have just swinging their sword on their own. It's what allows them to blitz past Titans and cut through their napes.

The most notable feat here which isn't enhanced by ODM maneuvering gear is Reiner cutting off three of Annie's fingers - but Reiner is one of the strongest Scouts trainees in the series, ebing ranked directly behind Mikasa. I don't see most typical soldiers armed by ODM blades being able ot recreate Reiner's feat of cutting himself free. For most soldiers being grabbed by a titan is a death sentence.

Yeah I'd be fine as listing the rating as the odm blade + odm gear in tandem. How should it be worded tho? Maybe something like this?

Small Building level, higher with ODM blades, City Block level+, possibly Multi-City Block level with ODM blades boosted with ODM gear

Reiner: Small Building level, Building level with ODM blades (Cut off three of the Female Titans fingers without a boost of the ODM gear), City Block level+, possibly Multi-City Block level with ODM blades boosted with ODM gear

I do think characters below reiner would have their odm blades without ODM gear speed assistance scale to 15m titan durability due to the Before the Fall feats and the material specifically made to kill pure titans

 

[Lilybitdun]

I'll make sure to add that change to the proposal and sandbox

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Small Building level, higher with ODM blades, City Block level+, possibly Multi-City Block level with ODM blades boosted with ODM gear

Reiner: Small Building level, Building level with ODM blades (Cut off three of the Female Titans fingers without a boost of the ODM gear), City Block level+, possibly Multi-City Block level with ODM blades boosted with ODM gear

This is fine i suppose.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Alright if that wording is good I'll update the proposal and sandbox shortly

 

[Lilybitdun]

Updated the proposal and sandbox

Snip

Does it look good with the changes now?

 

[Damage3245]

Looks alright to me currently. Would like to see what some other staff members think as well.

 

[Godernet]

The updated changes look good to me

 

[Lilybitdun]

Alright, we have enough votes and have far passed the grace period so this can be applied.

I'll wait an hour or two before applying the changes to give time for more staff to look over it tho since this a verse wide implementation

 

[FinePoint]

@Godernet @Damage3245 @Nierre @FinePoint pinging since yall were named and involved in the previous thread

When you pinged me I was in Norway, and now I have a kidney stone.

My apologies, but I probably can't provide input here anytime soon.

 

[Lilybitdun]

When you pinged me I was in Norway, and now I have a kidney stone.

My apologies, but I probably can't provide input here anytime soon.

It's alright man, take your time to recover first

 

[Lilybitdun]

Alright, time to go apply the changes

 

[Dalesean027]

When you pinged me I was in Norway, and now I have a kidney stone.

My apologies, but I probably can't provide input here anytime soon.

Wish ya the best and thanks for commenting despite that