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Dragon Ball Super Anime: Fused Zamasu and the Rival Danger Scale

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If this is a threat danger scale, wouldn't Zamasu, who's whole plan is basically purging the cosmos be above Beerus and everyone else by default as none of them actually actively want to destroy the cosmos and have their own personal plans, like Frieza wants to conquer, Beerus is wish washy as **** but he doesn't want to destroy EVERYTHING (because he'll get in shit).
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
What about two Supreme Kais (who work with the GoDs) stating he was a god behind their comprehension and Vegeta saying he'd never felt such Ki before? Shouldn't that make him GoD tier (IIRC all GoDs are at most 2-C).
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Tbh Vegeta's comment is one that I agree with the most. Is there a scan for this?
 
Actually, did Infinite Zamasu fuse with just U7, or the entire Future Timeline? The former is Low 2-C, while the latter is a 12 Universe 2-C
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Because we need him for Low 2-C scaling.
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I mean restrained Jiren scared Beerus with his casual power, shook the Void when 3 GoD's fighting couldn't, and was stated by Whis to be above Belmod in his heavily restrained state when he pushed back the Spirit Bomb, but whatever...
 
Huh, I wonder why Zeno have to delete the entire timeline if IZ is just in U7. But I suppose that's irrelevant for this thread.

Overall I'm still neutral, leaning to disagree on this proposal.
 
I disagree with this, I don't think the author really knows what he is saying tbh. And again, threat level =/= power level as the OP stated.

Still, this contradicts statements spoken in the DBS Anime about Jiren even in a casual state being above Infinite Zamasu. Jiren was described as equal, if not above the Gods of Destruction where as even in a casual state Whis clearly stated he was stronger than Fusion Zamasu. Beerus also considered Zamasu just a minor annoyance where as he was terrified by Jiren and UIS Goku's power. Zeno was also impressed by their power levels where as considered Zamasu a pest.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I disagree with this, I don't think the author really knows what he is saying tbh. And again, threat level =/= power level as the OP stated.

Still, this contradicts statements spoken in the DBS Anime about Jiren even in a casual state being above Infinite Zamasu. Jiren was described as equal, if not above the Gods of Destruction where as even in a casual state Whis clearly stated he was stronger than Fusion Zamasu. Beerus also considered Zamasu just a minor annoyance where as he was terrified by Jiren and UIS Goku's power. Zeno was also impressed by their power levels where as considered Zamasu a pest.
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Jiren should still be above Fused Zamasu. In fact, I’m not sure why Jiren is being used as counter-evidence. This is before the Universe Survival Saga.

In addition, Beerus never really has an interaction with Fused Zamasu. The most we have is his concern over Infinite Zamasu, which is good support given this was just from his power that was leaking into the present.
 
He lost in a beam struggle against Trunks/Vegeta and was getting pummeled by SSJB Goku, so I disagree. Beerus was still acknowledged as stronger than SSJB Goku and Frieza as of the Universal Survival Saga, so I don’t think it’d make sense for Goku to have surpassed him back in the Future Trunks Arc.





I also don’t think Jiren’s hype about being stronger than Beerus would make sense if Beerus got power creeped mid-DBS.
 
you got some problems with this.

first is that in the most current events from the anime and movie continuity, which is the super hero movie, Broly and Jiren are still seen by Goku as the toughest guys he has faced. The fact that he doesn’t put one over the other should mean they are relative regardless of whose weaker ( I don’t want to get into this debate)

Broly is the big issue here, because he managed to insurmountably surpass Blue Goku and Vegeta, who they themselves surpassed UIO Goku from episode 110, who is very objectively superior to fused zamasu.

Then Comes Goku and says that Broly is probably stronger than Beerus.

You see, you have to ignore Goku’s statement in order to get this to make sense.
 
Yeah, back then, Beerus was still officially considered a lot stronger than the SSB's, where as Goku and Vegeta eventually grew to the point where they actually considered Goku Black and Future Zamasu to actually be kinda weak; hence why the fused in the first place. And they still kept up with him well when split, but as Vegito is was pretty stompy. Also, Trunks with his spirit sword still bisected Fusion Zamasu before he became Infinite Zamasu, so Spirit Sword Trunks would also be above Beerus by the statement listed in the OP.

Also, Beerus and Whis could still sense Infinite Zamasu's power level, and I'm sure Beerus' reaction would have been far more freakish if his power level was even his equal let alone his superior.
 
Didn't Zamasu get stronger or something? He did hold his own against Blue Vegito who should be around Blue Goku's level in base
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Didn't Zamasu get stronger or something? He did hold his own against Blue Vegito who should be around Blue Goku's level in base
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There have been rumors going around saying that Beerus has a tendency to just get magically stronger even when all he does is take naps. Like realistically, Goku and Vegeta should have surpassed Beerus a long time ago if we want to take the original now retconned movies seriously, but then the Anime rewrote Beerus as someone who lies about going all out and that he never used 1 percent of his power. Then came ToP where Goku supposedly surpassed Beerus a long time ago, but the movies still have consistent statements about Beerus being very strong by Goku albeit he admits Broly is above Beerus. Though, the manga continuity does take it a step further and imply Goku and Vegeta still have long ways to go before reaching Beerus' tier.

Zamasu does have reactive power level and just gets stronger, but Vegito was still both stronger and/or the better fighter. Hence why we don't consider anyone on par with the Infinite Zamasu key. But the other points still stand.
 
I’m currently on campus for classes and such so I won’t be able to respond now. That said, I do have some refutations to the proposed counter arguments, especially those about Fused Zamasu’s clashes with Vegeta + Trunks and with Goku. I’ll post my response when I get the time
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There have been rumors going around saying that Beerus has a tendency to just get magically stronger even when all he does is take naps. Like realistically, Goku and Vegeta should have surpassed Beerus a long time ago if we want to take the original now retconned movies seriously, but then the Anime rewrote Beerus as someone who lies about going all out and that he never used 1 percent of his power. Then came ToP where Goku supposedly surpassed Beerus a long time ago, but the movies still have consistent statements about Beerus being very strong by Goku albeit he admits Broly is above Beerus. Though, the manga continuity does take it a step further and imply Goku and Vegeta still have long ways to go before reaching Beerus' tier.

Zamasu does have reactive power level and just gets stronger, but Vegito was still both stronger and/or the better fighter. Hence why we don't consider anyone on par with the Infinite Zamasu key. But the other points still stand.
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There's that quote from him during the manga, as long as I think about destruction the stronger I get, Beerus' powers come directly from the concept of destruction (note, it's not a real concept that I'm mentioned, but the energy of destruction)
 
Nullflowerblush said:
"We’re looking back on all the rivals who have traded blows with Goku, while displaying the V-Jump editorial department’s own personal degrees of danger for them."

V-Jump does not even work on the Super anime, Toei Animation does. V-Jump publishes the manga.
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Yeah, this seems to be the the root of the issue. Not any scaling arguments.
 
"The form Goku Black and Zamasu reach after merging via the Potara. He is so strong that others cannot even approach him."

Tbh I also think this is hyperbole because it's demonstratively false since it's talking about his power level, but if it's not applicable to the anime I guess there's not an argument to be had then.
 
Padaruyos said:
Tbh Vegeta's comment is one that I agree with the most. Is there a scan for this?
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Yeah, he even mentions among gods directly.
4495185c6fce61b5cf15c89780dac854.png

0271633f29e9ff330661039aec467f72.png


That + the other Supreme Kais statement should place as him as being a GoD tier opponent.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Jiren should still be above Fused Zamasu. In fact, I’m not sure why Jiren is being used as counter-evidence. This is before the Universe Survival Saga.
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Because it was implied that surpressed Jiren is relative to GoD. And if MZ is weaker than Jiren, then the former can't be stronger than the GoD.
Also it was implied that Beerus is on the stronger GoDs because there is a statement where he considers MUI/UI Goku as possibly stronger than him which is far above surpressed Jiren who in return is stronger than MZ.

The entire scaling chain doesn't work if MZ is stronger than Beerus
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There have been rumors going around saying that Beerus has a tendency to just get magically stronger even when all he does is take naps. Like realistically, Goku and Vegeta should have surpassed Beerus a long time ago if we want to take the original now retconned movies seriously, but then the Anime rewrote Beerus as someone who lies about going all out and that he never used 1 percent of his power.
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I mean...the purpose of the angel is to train them so off screen training isn't far fetched.
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Yeah, he even mentions among gods directly.
4495185c6fce61b5cf15c89780dac854.png

0271633f29e9ff330661039aec467f72.png


That + the other Supreme Kais statement should place as him as being a GoD tier opponent.
Click to expand...
Which, consequently, makes Goku and Vegeta during the "Future" Trunks Saga 2-C. That, or Fusion Zamasu is as powerful as Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren and infinitely held his power back as a show of superiority against his human opponents, even when he was being pushed back and having his body irreparably damaged.

Or, and hear me out—or, Vegeta has never witnessed the energy of a god beyond Beerus' display during the Battle of Gods, which is, evidently, infinitesimal compared to his full strength. Hell, Vegeta only developed the ability to sense God Ki during his training with Whis leading into the Golden Frieza Saga, and up until the Zero Mortals Plan, he has never been in the vicinity of a god releasing their power and been able to sense said power.

"Vegeta was there when Beerus and Champa were going to fight." Beerus and Champa were warming up. Nothing even implies that the level of power they were releasing at that time was 2-C; the only things Whis and Vados declare is that infighting between Gods of Destruction is forbidden for they would end up destroying the two universes, not that Beerus and Champa had flared up enough to destroy their universes right then and there.

Confidence scaling is not enough to bring Fusion Zamasu up to the level of the Gods of Destruction; doubly so when taking into account the fact that Beerus treated Zamasu as a non-threat; triply so when taking into account the fact that the concept of any warrior surpassing Beerus, even to Toei Animation producers, was unthinkable until Jiren appeared, and even that was unthinkable; quadruply so when taking into account the fact that Goku overpowered Zamasu in a beam struggle.
 
StekFence said:
The argument tho, is that IZ scales to beerus and champa in their clash
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No, just that he's a clearly intended to be a GoD tier opponent, supported by Gowasu and Shin as well

Also



Unless for some reason SSBKK pre ToP's considered >Zamasu, he would also scale to him being a GoD tier fighter.
Nullflowerblush said:
Which, consequently, makes Goku and Vegeta during the "Future" Trunks Saga 2-C. That, or Fusion Zamasu is as powerful as Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren and infinitely held his power back as a show of superiority against his human opponents, even when he was being pushed back and having his body irreparably damaged.

Or, and hear me out—or, Vegeta has never witnessed the energy of a god beyond Beerus' display during the Battle of Gods, which is, evidently, infinitesimal compared to his full strength. Hell, Vegeta only developed the ability to sense God Ki during his training with Whis leading into the Golden Frieza Saga, and up until the Zero Mortals Plan, he has never been in the vicinity of a god releasing their power and been able to sense said power.

"Vegeta was there when Beerus and Champa were going to fight." Beerus and Champa were warming up. Nothing even implies that the level of power they were releasing at that time was 2-C; the only things Whis and Vados declare is that infighting between Gods of Destruction is forbidden for they would end up destroying the two universes, not that Beerus and Champa had flared up enough to destroy their universes right then and there.
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I never said Zamasu was 2-C but that he is an individual GoD tier, i.e. "at most 2-C" like in the OP.
 
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