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̶B̶̶D̶̶E̶̶2̶ ̶R̶̶i̶̶m̶̶u̶̶r̶̶u̶ ̶T̶̶e̶̶m̶̶p̶̶e̶̶s̶̶t̶ (Closed)

Agree and rimuru is stated to be superior and above great spirits and veldanava hence its is plausible for him to have bde which veldanava should have once his profile was done
 
Thunderian said:
Seeing as this thread was accepted and it's similar to Rimuru, I think it can be accepted as well.

For now I will be Neutral.
Click to expand...
This revision was accepted because even small parts of Yggdrasil are completely transcendent, independent, and lack of space-time properties. It is the ability to exist and be unaffected by the absence of spatial and temporal dimensions, and events affecting the spatio-temporal dimensions could not affect Yggdrasil. It was a lack,independence and superiority. I don't know if the situation is the same here.

Because BDE Type 2 = Lack/Indepent and superior to space-time

At the same time, scans only indicate that abilities transcends space and time. It seems to have nothing to do with existence.

It also shows that in other scans it transcends only "concepts of space-time and a few dualities." Doesn't look like BDE Type 2

There are also no statements of independence. Only abilities are said to transcend space-time.
 
its wrong, because in matter of fact, none of great spirits has anything with spatiotemporal features
 
What does this suppose to mean? Thunderian, are you aware that there is absolutely no actual evidence that Rimuru is suprior to them?
The whole scans only indicate his survival and independence of them, nothing sort of qualitative supriority over them
 
Being stronger does not imply being suprior to the nature and laws of world (in this case, the great spirits).
Yet, I still need to see the qualitative supriority you are talking about
 
ImmortalDread said:
Perhaps, I am positive that he is suprior in terms of power, and not nature
Click to expand...
There is something called evolution in Tensura, Dread.

Rimuru is evolving every day. Evolution not only increases strength, but also existence. Like Rimuru's evolution from Slime to Demon Slime, where his existence increased from semi-spiritual to spiritual lifeform. Spiritual lifeforms are qualitatively superior to material or semi-spiritual lifeforms.

And at the end of the story Rimuru is said to have transcended god. It's not only a matter of strength, but also of existence because Rimuru continued to evolve when he was thrown by Chrono Saltation by Yuuki Kagurazaka.
 
Thunderian, I think scans can speak for themselves. Evolution is pretty sure only in terms of development and power, but not existence/nature.
 
Thunderian said:
There is something called evolution in Tensura, Dread.

Rimuru is evolving every day. Evolution not only increases strength, but also existence. Like Rimuru's evolution from Slime to Demon Slime, where his existence increased from semi-spiritual to spiritual lifeform. Spiritual lifeforms are qualitatively superior to material or semi-spiritual lifeforms.

And at the end of the story Rimuru is said to have transcended god. It's not only a matter of strength, but also of existence because Rimuru continued to evolve when he was thrown by Chrono Saltation by Yuuki Kagurazaka.
Click to expand...
Btw it's not BDE Type 2 or Type 1. BDE is lack/Indepent(it's for type 1) and superior(it's and other statements is Type 2) of spatial and temporal dimensions.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Thunderian, I think scans can speak for themselves. Evolution is pretty sure only in terms of development and power, but not existence/nature.
Click to expand...
Dread, evolution is clear in terms of existence as well. Material Lifeforms couldn't be compared to Spiritual Lifeforms. True Dragons also couldn't be compared to True Demon Lords. In terms of existence, they have superiority.
 
You can't simply force me to believe if you are not sending any scans that point this out.

With this argument, you can be high 1-B HDE since its a continuous evolution
 
ImmortalDread said:
You can't simply force me to believe if you are not sending any scans that point this out.

With this argument, you can be high 1-B HDE since its a continuous evolution
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about dimensionality, Dread. I'm talking about the superiority of existence that can be attained through evolution.

For example Benimaru who had evolved into a Spiritual Lifeform. He was inferior to a True Dragon, but he was still an Elemental Divine Spirit.
Looks like he managed to get along with Momiji, and has safely ascended.[5]
Discarding his physical body, he had fully evolved into a Spiritual Life Form. Albeit lower than the True Dragons, he is still an Elemental Divine Spirit nonetheless. (Chapter 191)
Click to expand...
True Dragons are peak Spiritual Lifeforms and are said to be perfect beings. True Dragons were superior in terms of existence to Benimaru who was an Elemental Divine Spirit.
Then, as for why I cannot reproduce… there is simply no need.
As I’m a “Perfect Individual[4]”, one of the four ever existed “True Dragons[5]”.
“Storm Dragon Veldora!” is I!
I am bound by neither life span nor flesh! A mass of magic essences, and as long as I have Will I’m immortal !!! (Chapter 3)
Click to expand...
 
Nothing here refers as perfectionism, he literally say it metaphorical to imply that he is not bounded by life span, hence immortal.
 
Catpija said:
I'm aware that such thread trying to gives Rimuru this ability has been rejected before, but i have come with more arguments and feats to back it up. Let's begin the madness!



Rimuru has trascended time and space, and rules over it. Said to trascend Veldanava, who existed prior to the concepts of time and space. This was also proved as Rimuru was able to survive the destruction of the Great Spirits which governed time and space.

In short, Rimuru has shown properties of trascendence and independence of space-time itself. This fits the description of BDE (Type 2) which states;



Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:
Click to expand...
I heard that the scan saying about the spirit that erases everything including itself does not exist in the RAWs, it would be good to check before continuing the discussion
 
i dissagre 🗿 since after creation veldanava is still affected by space time itself it's so also rimuru too since his stomach itself an imaginary space (he is stil dependend with space time) that would become contradiction if u said they are independent from Space - time
 
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KntolRicat said:
i dissagre 🗿 since after creation veldanava is still affected by space time itself it's so also rimuru too since his stomach itself an imaginary space (he is stil dependend with space time) that would become contradiction if u said they are independent from Space - time
Click to expand...
Imaginary Space is a bad argument to refute this since it was unaffected by the end of space-time, or the death of the great spirit of sky and the great spirit of time. This is why Veldora was fine even after the end of everything since he was inside Rimuru's stomach at that time.
 
Bahaha said:
Imaginary Space is a bad argument to refute this since it was unaffected by the end of space-time, or the death of the great spirit of sky and the great spirit of time. This is why Veldora was fine even after the end of everything since he was inside Rimuru's stomach at that time.
Click to expand...
that's not what i mean, i mean that if rimuru surpassed the form of space - time, why would imaginary space exist then. since the concept of space itself isn't exist for them.
 
KntolRicat said:
i dissagre 🗿 since after creation veldanava is still affected by space time itself
Click to expand...
Can you prove this?
KntolRicat said:
it's so also rimuru too since his stomach itself an imaginary space (he is stil dependend with space time) that would become contradiction if u said they are independent from Space - time
Click to expand...
Imaginary Space is not a part of Rimuru's body physically, otherwise he would be 2-A in size.
Also, you could be independent of a normal conventional space-time but not of a infinite one (multiversal+)
 
Peak said:
I heard that the scan saying about the spirit that erases everything including itself does not exist in the RAWs, it would be good to check before continuing the discussion
Click to expand...
This is a good point, but i still think Rimuru can get BDE without this evidence.

Just let me write my argument again and hope that it don't get erased again somehow 🗿
 
Neutral, I don't understand how BDE works in this standard, I only know a few, That getting BDE is not only with a transcendent context in space and time, it is present as an essence that is a continuation of space and time, He lives as an entity that is independent of space and time, At the same time has lack of aspects that he is independent of (Something) For example, Arceus who got bde for being present and not depending on what he created, namely palkia and dialga the pokemon of time and space, as well as being present outside the universe created by them, There are even some narrations that suggest that Palkia and Dialga's attacks cannot affect Arceus at all because he does not possess the space and time aspects that they created.
 
I just realized something, how does Rimuru not have BDE while having Transduality over the Great Spirits, which houses the Great Spirit of Sky and Great Spirit of Time therefore already being independent and transcendent of space and time? If Rimuru doesn't get BDE then having Transduality makes no sense, either Rimuru has both or neither because you can't be transcendent of the Great Spirits while not being independent of them.
 
Bahaha said:
I just realized something, how does Rimuru not have BDE while having Transduality over the Great Spirits, which houses the Great Spirit of Sky and Great Spirit of Time therefore already being independent and transcendent of space and time? If Rimuru doesn't get BDE then having Transduality makes no sense, either Rimuru has both or neither because you can't be transcendent of the Great Spirits while not being independent of them.
Click to expand...
similar to how you don't instantly get NEP 2 despite having transduality over existence and nonexistence

The key difference is that they exist as if they do not have it nor possess it while also unbound by it. which isn't what Rimuru is shown to be. it grants the same thing but they follow different nature or physiology. that's just what is it.
 
Transduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists independently of, and qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from very specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to duality itself on a conceptual level. - From the transduality page

For a character to have transduality, then they must exist "independently of, and qualitatively beyond, various dual systems" therefore a transdual character is automatically independent of whatever they transcend. If Rimuru got his transduality over the Great Spirits, then that means he exists independent of, and beyond, the Great Spirits, which is shown by the nature of the Holy Spirit and surviving the erasure of the Great Spirits. Since the Great Spirits include the Great Spirit of Sky and the Great Spirit of Time, and because he transcends the Great Spirits, then he must be independent of the Great Spirits.
TheGreatJedi13 said:
similar to how you don't instantly get NEP 2 despite having transduality over existence and nonexistence
Click to expand...
Isn't this because the transdual entity sometimes is not non-existent therefore not getting NEP 2? If they were non-existent and beyond the conventional non-existent of existence and nonexistence, then they would get NEP 2.

In this case, for BDE the character has to exist independent of, and beyond, spatial and temporal dimensions and doesn't have any other criteria necessary to fulfill. Since a transdual character already exists "independently of, and qualitatively beyond" the dualities they transcend, if a transdual character got their transcendence over some kind of dualities, or has similar nature, of time and space, then shouldn't they have BDE?

TheGreatJedi13 said:
The key difference is that they exist as if they do not have it nor possess it while also unbound by it. which isn't what Rimuru is shown to be
Click to expand...
True dragons have been shown to exist independently of the concept of time, as shown by Afterstories where Veldora would be fine after the Mobius System erasure of the concept of time in a particular dimension. The Mobius System is similar to Beelzebub and erases the positive energy (expansion/space) of the universe as well as the concept of time, and Veldora would still be fine in that dimension. Therefore doesn't he show qualities of lacking space and time, by still existing after a dimension lost all space and time?

This doesn't matter much because the transduality nature of Veldanava and Rimuru already has them lacking the Great Spirits and being transcendent of the Great Spirits.
 
I ain't readin all that

You yourself said NEP exist as nonexistent then you claim bde don't need it despite the main thing for it is lacking it and being superior/independent of it. Instead of simply being superior/independent. Read the page.

Existing in a timeless void or timeless dimension doesn't mean anything.

Also drop scans
 
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