Mortal Kombat: One Being is wack

[StrymULTRA]

Okay, so I was checking the One Being's profile again, and I have noticed a weird thing:

The OB's 2-C justification is this:

Low Multiverse level (Is the Mortal Kombat universe itself, which[1] is made[2] of[3] 7 to 11 realms, each[4] being[5] infinite[6] in size[7] and with a[8] different flow[9] of time[10], and all of existence being its dreams[11]. Brought reality to an end upon being awakened by having the realms merged during Shinnok's ending in MKX[12])

There are things wrong with this:

1. The Universe is called as being a "multi-realm concept", implying that these realms are part of the same universe.
2. The "with a[8] different flow[9] of time[10]" is just not true. If you see those scans, you'll just see that time flows differently in those, which is not enough to imply more space-times according to the Universe page.

Those being called planes of existence doesn't really matter as "plane" in itself is vague, and this leads to just the Quilted Multiverse, where there are many spaces, all under the same flow of time, aka same space-time.

Thus meaning that One Being and those who scale from him will go back to Low 2-C.

Profiles affected:

• Kamidogu
• One Being
• The Elder Gods

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah.

 

[SamanPatou]

Wouldn't the fact that all realms are infinite qualify for 2-C anyway?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wouldn't the fact that all realms are infinite qualify for 2-C anyway?

No. Outside the fact that infinite x number is still infinite, it's even said in our tiering system that even infinite realms of infinite size each wouldn't form a Tier 2 multiverse if they're still under the same dimension of time, but still High 3-A.

Aka the MK universe would be Low 2-C at best under our rules.

 

[TurtleGod55]

Mortal Kombat is Going through revisions right now

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Mortal Kombat 1 shows us that when Lui Lang and Shang fought, countless timelines got created and as we see in Lui Kang's timeline, there exist eact realms like before and while spatially separate from each other (evident by them needing portals to reach each realm) they clearly share the same temporal axis as an alteration to the timeline affects all the realms within it not just one This would make them collectively Low 2-C unless I'm mistaken as the OP suggests. Since I'm not really knowledgeable on all Mortal Kombat titles there could be evidence that proves more of a temporal separation but I don't know, will wait for more knowledgeable MK users to speak on the matter.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Mortal Kombat is Going through revisions right now

Do those revisions affect the realms being separate space-time continuums?

 

[SamanPatou]

No. Outside the fact that infinite x number is still infinite, it's even said in our tiering system that even infinite realms of infinite size each wouldn't form a Tier 2 multiverse if they're still under the same dimension of time, but still High 3-A.

Aka the MK universe would be Low 2-C at best under our rules.

I see, it's probably fine then.

Do those revisions affect the realms being separate space-time continuums?

Not that I know, some characters might end up being 2-B or 2-A but for other reasons, a matter of multiple timelines each containing said realms.

 

[TurtleGod55]

Do those revisions affect the realms being separate space-time continuums?

I don’t think so we’ll just have to wait and see from the Knowledgeable Members

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Not that I know, some characters might end up being 2-B or 2-A but for other reasons, a matter of multiple timelines each containing said realms.

Alright then.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Do those revisions affect the realms being separate space-time continuums?

The realms within timelines yes.

But if there are multiple timelines, each of them will be Low 2-C and not 2-C after this.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Mortal Kombat 1 shows us that when Lui Lang and Shang fought, countless timelines got created and as we see in Lui Kang's timeline, there exist eact realms like before and while spatially separate from each other (evident by them needing portals to reach each realm) they clearly share the same temporal axis as an alteration to the timeline affects all the realms within it not just one This would make them collectively Low 2-C unless I'm mistaken as the OP suggests. Since I'm not really knowledgeable on all Mortal Kombat titles there could be evidence that proves more of a temporal separation but I don't know, will wait for more knowledgeable MK users to speak on the matter.

In this case, it may fall within the hypertime lines.

we had a recent review of this.

This is similar to how the time dimension in a 4-dimensional spacetime continuum spans uncountably infinite 3-dimensional snapshots of the universe, qualifying it for Low 1-C. Unless fiction shows otherwise, a different multiversal temporal dimension spanning universes that themselves have their own time dimensions as well (not the same multiversal time dimension that services many Universes and is shared by them), or even a single universe with two active temporal dimensions, qualifies. The same applies to three or more temporal dimensions.

But of course, unless every kingdom in the universe is a Low 2-C structure upwards.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But of course, unless every kingdom in the universe is a Low 2-C structure upwards.

The stuff in the profile is more about each realm just having the flow of time flowing differently, not each being its own space-time.

 

[Iaakk]

dissagree

"The Universe is called as being a "multi-realm concept", implying that these realms are part of the same multiverse."

This is just wrong when looking at what we know of mk. In the scan he states

"When creating #mortalkombat our multi-realm concept established the fabric of the universe"

This doesn't mean it's all contained in the same universe per say. It's just asserting that multi realm idea is what made up the mk franchise. As universe can mean all that is, or from Oxford "a particular sphere of interest or experience." This point is furthered by a few points. When Ed boon states there is no limit to earthrealm making it infinite in size.

“The "with a[8] different flow[9] of time[10]" is just not true. If you see those scans, you'll just see that time flows differently in those, which is not enough to imply more space-times according to the Universe page.”

Now while having a time flow isnt enough to substantiate separate universes it can be used as supporting evidence. Now i have to say i do disagree with the reasoning on the page but i do agree with the end result. Now on the universe vsbw page it says we can conclude if a universe is separate if its separated by a barrier that isnt 3 dimensional. And ways to show this was it having higher dimensional properties or encompassing the universes/realms. And this is exactly what something called the void does. The void is basically as stated by nightwolf when he returned, a place beyond time. And this realm is basically a space between realms, acting as like the paper to all the realms that reside in it. Now since it enoumpasses the other realm it would logically meat the standards which is supported as you can only travel between realms using portals which vsbw stated was the case for traveling universes when they are separate. With this due to VSBW standards they would be separated by the void to support low multi tiering.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Now while having a time flow isnt enough to substantiate separate universes it can be used as supporting evidence. Now i have to say i do disagree with the reasoning on the page but i do agree with the end result. Now on the universe vsbw page it says we can conclude if a universe is separate if its separated by a barrier that isnt 3 dimensional. And ways to show this was it having higher dimensional properties or encompassing the universes/realms. And this is exactly what something called the void does. The void is basically as stated by nightwolf when he returned, a place beyond time. And this realm is basically a space between realms, acting as like the paper to all the realms that reside in it. Now since it enoumpasses the other realm it would logically meat the standards which is supported as you can only travel between realms using portals which vsbw stated was the case for traveling universes when they are separate. With this due to VSBW standards they would be separated by the void to support low multi tiering

Scans for this? Because it still doesn't really say that the realms are with different flows of time, especially when the universe page says that different bodies of space aren't evidence of more timelines being in the same universe.

 

[Iaakk]

“Scans for this”

I'm not sure what your reffering to due to what you say later but if your asking for proof of different time flows then it's presented on the vsbw pages where It says a day on eqrthrealm is a year on outworld or smth like that. If you asking for the void scans that may take a bit. As the person sending this in the forum isn't the person that typed this out. My friends doing this while I wait and try to get my vsbw account verified.

“Because it still doesn't really say that the realms are with different flows of time.”

It's more like they have a different rate of time ig??? Flow of time could maybe also work

“Especially when the universe page says that different bodies are space aren't evidence for multiple timelines in the same universe”

Im a bit confused by your argument. By universe do you mean the verse as a whole??? As I never said having multiple spaces mean multiple timelines in a single universe. And I didn't really say that different spaces mean they each have seperate time lines either. Ima assume your reffering to my comment on timeflows. Basically different time flows in of themselves aren't enough to conclude seperate times. But it can be used to support with further evidence, as something with seperate stcs could flow at different rates.

Also if I get the scans for the void do you agree to my logic overall??

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm not sure what your reffering to due to what you say later but if your asking for proof of different time flows then it's presented on the vsbw pages where It says a day on eqrthrealm is a year on outworld or smth like that

I'm very aware of these scans, they're even on profile, but on the Universe standard page it's said that having different speed of time it's not proof of different space time as that can happen in the same space time continuum.

If you asking for the void scans that may take a bit.

Ok.

By universe do you mean the verse as a whole???

The standard page which is called "Universe" here.

Also if I get the scans for the void do you agree to my logic overall??

If the void is indeed beyond time like you say, then it's possible to argue that the realms don't share the same time flow. But I'd need to see that scan first as I said.

 

[KLOL506]

I should re-iterate that "alternate flow of time" on its own isn't enough to confirm alternate space-times, or changes to the past causing changes to the futures of other timelines, unless of course you can prove spatial separation.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I should re-iterate that "alternate flow of time" on its own isn't enough to confirm alternate space-times, or changes to the past causing changes to the futures of other timelines, unless of course you can prove spatial separation.

It's just time flowing at different speed in the scans. Do I have to repeat this a 4th time?

 

[SamanPatou]

Scans for the void thing are here.
It is also mentioned in older games, but I don't know where to find references to it.

@Ecstasy_Amphetamine might help.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Scans for the void thing are here.

It does not say the void is between the realms, isn't it? If so this does not debunk my stance on Low 2-C.

 

[Executor_N0]

The "same space-time" refers to all points in 4D space-time, as if the realms overlap with the infinitely extended direction of the 4 directions.

For example, if you pick a point and extend it across 4 dimensions infinitely if you can map out all points in the cosmology in these 4 lines, then it's a 4D cosmology where it matters. If you can't, then the cosmology has an extra 5-th dimensional axis where many 4-D constructs are placed in.

If you can't just reach this other realm/dimension by flying across an extension of conventional 4D space-time travel, then it's at least a small 5D construct with n-number of Low 2-C existences that can be considered a 2-C cosmology for the purposes of the wiki.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Well back then in the Midway games the void was just a space between realms and a vantage point from which the Elder Gods could see what's happening across all realms. From Scorpion's MK Deception bio:

"While in the Void, I witnessed, along with the Elder Gods the death of Raiden and the re-emergence of the Dragon King. Suddenly aware of my presence..."

From Onaga's unused ending in MK Deception. Even tho it's unused it's still supporting evidence that's not contradictory. Definitely not cut from the game for story issues

"My enemies had failed to prevent me from fusing all the weapons of the Elder Gods into one. I used this ultimate weapon to warp reality, merging the realms into a singular existence. The Elder Gods were helpless as I used their own power against them in the void beyond the one realm."

A backwards message from Deception's Konquest mode

"The Void is a place beyond the realms where the Elder Gods dwell."

That aside I'm not participating in this thread other than when I'm needed

 

[StrymULTRA]

The "same space-time" refers to all points in 4D space-time, as if the realms overlap with the infinitely extended direction of the 4 directions.

For example, if you pick a point and extend it across 4 dimensions infinitely if you can map out all points in the cosmology in these 4 lines, then it's a 4D cosmology where it matters. If you can't, then the cosmology has an extra 5-th dimensional axis where many 4-D constructs are placed in.

If you can't just reach this other realm/dimension by flying across an extension of conventional 4D space-time travel, then it's at least a small 5D construct with n-number of Low 2-C existences that can be considered a 2-C cosmology for the purposes of the wiki.

This all does not matter because:

• It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.
• High 3-A: Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

What you're saying assumes that the realms are all Low 2-C each, but the evidence on profile just says more they're multiple High 3-A dimensions under the same flow of time.

Well back then in the Midway games the void was just a space between realms and a vantage point from which the Elder Gods could see what's happening across all realms. From Scorpion's MK Deception bio:

"While in the Void, I witnessed, along with the Elder Gods the death of Raiden and the re-emergence of the Dragon King. Suddenly aware of my presence..."

I assume you mean this?

"My enemies had failed to prevent me from fusing all the weapons of the Elder Gods into one. I used this ultimate weapon to warp reality, merging the realms into a singular existence. The Elder Gods were helpless as I used their own power against them in the void beyond the one realm."

If you're meaning about this, then you're suggesting that the "void" is something that is both beyond time and between the realms, given that it exist between those merged realms in one, correct?

Though I am unsure if to use it given the wiki's policy about unused content.

"The Void is a place beyond the realms where the Elder Gods dwell."

I found these:

• In the beginning days, sorcerers were commanded by the Elder Gods to construct the many portals that connect the realms.
• Plus your statement.

 

[SamanPatou]

Iirc, the One Being is generally comprised of all the realms and comes back to life when they are merged together. If that was the case, the void wouldn't be part of it anyway, I guess.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Iirc, the One Being is generally comprised of all the realms and comes back to life when they are merged together. If that was the case, the void wouldn't be part of it anyway, I guess.

Ah.

I'd need an explanation from @Ecstasy_Amphetamine, coz if the Void is not within the timeline, then it's not 2-C at all.

 

[Executor_N0]

This all does not matter because:

• It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.
• High 3-A: Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

What you're saying assumes that the realms are all Low 2-C each, but the evidence on profile just says more they're multiple High 3-A dimensions under the same flow of time.

I wasn't talking about time. When you say "Space-time" you are not just talking about time, but of course also space. So you can have the same time flow and temporal dimension governing multiple spacetimes because the spaces are different. It's what "firstly" talks about.

As it says there "do not account for any higher dimensions". What I said, accounted for it. It's where the 5th-dimensional axis came from. If you have 4D continuums (As something that extends across 3D space and 1D time), if they are not sharing all regions of 3D space (As if you can infinitely extend the 3D directions of one of them and not reach the other regions), then they are placed in different points in a 4th spatial axis. That is what makes them different space-times, in the same way, they can share the same three axes of spaces, and they can also share the same axis of time as long as they are not at the same point of the 4th-spatial axis.

After it's accepted that they are not sharing all points of 4D space-time (In fact it could even just be one point that is different), what really matters is if said realm is of considerable size to be considered equal to what we consider a "universe" in a space sense (Reason for why pocket dimensions with their own flow of time are not considered Tier 2 feats if they are really very tiny, but if they are huge, they can even be Tier 1 as it happens with Marvel).

As it's stated in that same pace:
The overarching principle behind this is that each counted timeline must still be a substantial four-dimensional object, as this is the fundamental criterion for qualification in these tiers.

If they are still 4-dimensional objects that are displaced across space, then they should be counted by 2-C as that is literally what these notes imply.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok? I never said they are 4D, I am saying they're 3D stuff inside the same Low 2-C timeline. This whole wall of text of yours misses the point of my CRT.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

a

All I can say is that the void being beyond time is only a thing in the newer MK games by NRS starting from MK11. The Midway games have the void as a space between realms only

 

[StrymULTRA]

All I can say is that the void being beyond time is only a thing in the newer MK games by NRS starting from MK11. The Midway games have the void as a space between realms only

I don't know if you're harming or supporting your argument, given that it's not like it's "retconned" from MK11, it seems to be more just an updated information?

Iirc, the One Being is generally comprised of all the realms and comes back to life when they are merged together. If that was the case, the void wouldn't be part of it anyway, I guess.

About this though?

 

[Executor_N0]

Ok? I never said they are 4D, I am saying they're 3D stuff inside the same Low 2-C timeline. This whole wall of text of yours misses the point of my CRT.

If the spaces of the realms are sharing the same 3D extent, sure, but there have been comments stating it wasn't. Normally I don't see different realms or dimensions being just assumed to be the same space when they are said to be different realms or planes of existence. What is the reason to assume they are all in the same 3D space? Can you reach any realm using conventional 3D travel without any portals or special abilities? If so, that is fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If the spaces of the realms are sharing the same 3D extent, sure, but there have been comments stating it wasn't. Normally I don't see different realms or dimensions being just assumed to be the same space when they are said to be different realms or planes of existence. What is the reason to assume they are all in the same 3D space?

The profile literally uses only "time flows at different speeds in each realm" as evidence for those being Low 2-C places each, which is denied from our Universe page.

So the suppoters should be making an argument for giving stuff beyond just that.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I don't know if you're harming or supporting your argument, given that it's not like it's "retconned" from MK11, it seems to be more just an updated information?

No I didn't make an argument in the first place, I was pinged here to give scans about the void

The Midway and NRS games are split because of vastly irreconcilable differences

 

[StrymULTRA]

Lmao.

Then I suppose it's Low 2-C then?

 

[Executor_N0]

The profile literally uses only "time flows at different speeds in each realm" as evidence for those being Low 2-C places each, which is denied from our Universe page.

So the suppoters should be making an argument for giving stuff beyond just that.

From my understanding, it's supporting evidence to the idea the realms are "different planes" to each other. There's also this image stating they are "parallel planes". This video also seems to imply the idea that the realms are just the infinite extent of their physical dimensions. The "entire universe" they talk about is the collection of the realms, but the "physical extent" of the earth realm is just the nature of that realm, you can't move across the dimension of earth and go out to another realm. At least from that video, is exactly what is explained for it to be parallel dimensions.

 

[SamanPatou]

The void is indeed within the timeline, but it's outside of the realms, so if the OB is made up of all the realms, then the void is outside of it as well and so not part of its ap.

 

[StrymULTRA]

From my understanding, it's supporting evidence to the idea the realms are "different planes" to each other. There's also this image stating they are "parallel planes". This video also seems to imply the idea that the realms are just the infinite extent of their physical dimensions. The "entire universe" they talk about is the collection of the realms, but the "physical extent" of the earth realm is just the nature of that realm, you can't move across the dimension of earth and go out to another realm. At least from that video, is exactly what is explained for it to be parallel dimensions.

Pretty sure that parallel dimensions are not assumed to be different space-times, if that's your argument. I don't know what is your standard, because just being a different body of space separated from the main one is not enough proof:

• The Worlds being different bodies of space is not enough to consider them universes, as that does not quite prove they have different timelines. Especially if they are afterlives. Afterlives often are different bodies of space, but are generally condensed in the same timeline unless there's more proof otherwise.

Plus the High 3-A AP says that multiple High 3-A realms are not a higher tier, so kek.

The void is indeed within the timeline, but it's outside of the realms, so if the OB is made up of all the realms, then the void is outside of it as well and so not part of its ap.

To be fair, if the Realms are separated from a higher dimension, then they'd qualify as being Low 2-C each, thus OB would still be 2-C if the Void is indeed separating them.

 

[Executor_N0]

Pretty sure that parallel dimensions are not assumed to be different space-times, if that's your argument. I don't know what is your standard, because just being a different body of space separated from the main one is not enough proof:

• The Worlds being different bodies of space is not enough to consider them universes, as that does not quite prove they have different timelines. Especially if they are afterlives. Afterlives often are different bodies of space, but are generally condensed in the same timeline unless there's more proof otherwise.

Plus the High 3-A AP says that multiple High 3-A realms are not a higher tier, so kek.

They are not assumed to be different timelines because the time axis can be the same, but still different 3D spaces displaced across a 4th axis. That is also the whole reason regarding the discussion of 5D hypertimelines, high-order spaces, and multiversal space-time in general. The point for Tier 2 is the amount of 4D spaces affected across a 5th spatial axis. Parallel dimensions are still that and can be more (Parallel timelines in Marvel can be Tier 1-A exactly because of the "pocket dimensions" inside them).

The entire point of the tiering system for Tier 2 and above regarding dimensions is exactly that as explained in the Tiering System FAQ. If somehow that isn't the case for multiple 4D space-times across the 5th spatial axis, then the very 1st note in the Tiering system makes no sense and valid higher-dimensional existence is not a thing.

The point of "different time flows" not being evidence for "different space-times" is merely for the cases in which the different flows of time are explained by reasons inside that singular 4D continuum. Such as supermassive rotating bodies that distort space-time greatly in a certain range creating a massive difference in the perception of time in different points of the entire 4D continuum. That can explain how time might feel to flow differently in different places.

But that is only in cases in which there are no other pieces of evidence of two different places being in different 4D planes. Like, if you have two characters going far into space and getting into a planet and that planet is around a star that distorts greatly space-time and they spend 4 minutes there while thousands of years pass in their home planet, they are not in a different space-time plane, but merely in a region of the same space-time plane with greatly warped space-time.

But, if they are in a place that is not accessible by extending infinitely the three dimensions of space and that happens to have a different flow of time due to the difference in how that different-dimensional space is displaced across the dimension of time, then it's evidence about the nature of the different-dimensional space.

It's not that different time flows aren't evidence for different space-time on their own that they can't be supporting evidence about the nature between the parallel universes, it can be supporting evidence when there's other evidence about it, the problem is merely when it's the only evidence, and according to the profile, there are.

 

[StrymULTRA]

They are not assumed to be different timelines because the time axis can be the same, but still different 3D spaces displaced across a 4th axis. That is also the whole reason regarding the discussion of 5D hypertimelines, high-order spaces, and multiversal space-time in general. The point for Tier 2 is the amount of 4D spaces affected across a 5th spatial axis. Parallel dimensions are still that and can be more (Parallel timelines in Marvel can be Tier 1-A exactly because of the "pocket dimensions" inside them).

So you concede with my point or what?

But, if they are in a place that is not accessible by extending infinitely the three dimensions of space and that happens to have a different flow of time due to the difference in how that different-dimensional space is displaced across the dimension of time, then it's evidence about the nature of the different-dimensional space.

Mfw you still didn't get that even infinite 3D universes together are not Tier 2.

It's not that different time flows aren't evidence for different space-time on their own that they can't be supporting evidence about the nature between the parallel universes, it can be supporting evidence when there's other evidence about it, the problem is merely when it's the only evidence, and according to the profile, there are.

This thread is either to downgrade it, or to add more justifications, that's it.

 

[Executor_N0]

So you concede with my point or what?

Mfw you still didn't get that even infinite 3D universes together are not Tier 2.

If the spaces are shared, yes. If not, they are. You just need to count the number of spatial axes needed to include all the points in a n-dimensional space. If you can't include all the points in 3D space, then you need 4D space. And going by what the profile says, you can't count all the points of all the realms in the same 3D space. So yes, you'll need 4D space.

I'm just applying dimensional logic. The minimum number of spatial axes that exist in cosmology equals the number needed to encompass all physical points in the cosmology. This is from the Universe page, I'm not saying something that is not stated on the page.

* This is because it should be impossible for two distinct universes to be connected by a path that only goes through regular 3 dimensional space. Universes must be separated by something other than 3 dimensional distance or physical barriers, otherwise they would be considered to both be part of one large universe for our tiering purposes. [...] . In other words, two separate universes coexist in a four dimensional or even higher dimensional space, occupying different position along some additional dimensional axis.