Hasty12345
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Huge thank you to @TheUnshakableOne who worked on this CRT with me and all the other Saint Seiya supporters who helped both directly and indirectly.
Hello everyone.
The long-awaited pt 2 of my verse overhaul has come, it's a long one but it should be relatively straightforward.
The goal of this CRT is to remove/limit the impact of cross-scaling on the abilities section of the profiles, with only cross-series cosmological constants and concepts being cross-scalable (as we take the manga franchise to be within the same cosmology, and we have characters travel throughout the multiverse with no difference in their abilities or explanations of certain concepts). What this means in practice is, that Classic Saga isn't benefiting from G Saga, however, humans being stated to have infinite or limitless willpower in 3 different series will apply to every human profile.
Hopefully, we got all these spoiler boxes right
Abilities to be removed from profiles
These are Abilities, listed below, that need to be evaluated so they can be added to profiles.
All the other abilities on the Blog are abilities that are already accepted from past CRTs and are already currently used on the profiles
The Conclusion of this CRT
With all of this. I'd like to introduce something that will make every profile of Saint Seiya on the wiki and future profiles easier. The introduction of the Cosmo Powers and Abilities blog.
This would be linked to profiles so it's no longer a wall of text. for example, the P&A section would read like this
Basic Cosmo user, and Saint of Athena | 7th Sense User | Specter of Hades | 8th Sense User
Gold Saint of Virgo, Saint of Athena, 7th Sense user | 8th Sense User
Etc etc. It makes it 10x faster to edit and read
here is the link to the blog below
Thank you for reading.
Agree: @TheUnshakableOne @LuffyRuffy46307, @AlexZiggy (mostly everything), @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus (same as Griffin), @KingTempest, @Celestial_Pegasus, @UchihaSlayer96
Disagree:
Neutral:
Hello everyone.
The long-awaited pt 2 of my verse overhaul has come, it's a long one but it should be relatively straightforward.
The goal of this CRT is to remove/limit the impact of cross-scaling on the abilities section of the profiles, with only cross-series cosmological constants and concepts being cross-scalable (as we take the manga franchise to be within the same cosmology, and we have characters travel throughout the multiverse with no difference in their abilities or explanations of certain concepts). What this means in practice is, that Classic Saga isn't benefiting from G Saga, however, humans being stated to have infinite or limitless willpower in 3 different series will apply to every human profile.
Abilities to be removed from profiles
Summary of reasoning whyFrom all profiles that have it listed:
any non-psychic type character (Telepathy, Teleportation, telekinesis, and Flight/levitation )
- Soul Manipulation, and resistance to
It should just be NPI but even that I'm doubtful on. There are 2 Gold Saints where manipulation of the Soul is blatant. Which are the Cancer Saint and Virgo Saint. Virgo Saint can Spiritually BFR you, Cancer Saints can separate the soul from the body, and BFR your soul. Narratively it makes these 2 saints less special if suddenly every single saint can harm the soul, however, I'm pretty sure by wiki policy simply punching a soul doesn't mean you're doing damage to the soul. The other issue comes from the context of the scenes. First the scene with Shoko, you can make the argument their not really spirits but some sort of Type 3 Conceptual Abstract entities because their "Evil Spirits" were born from "Human emotion/ideas," even if that were not true Shoko simply just pushed them aside arguably with a shockwave instead of hitting them. The other problem is the weaker bronze saints like Ichi and Jabu. When they first fought the spiritual adversaries their attacks were shown going threw them and not hitting them. Which makes it very questionable if they did defeat them. And through implied context, it appears it was the Specter Gold Saint who were still in the process of reviving who they were fighting.- resistance to Illusions and Acausality -
No one has shown resisting Illusions in the series instead it's always been them learning they are caught in an illusion and then out-powering the illusion, or the illusion wears off. Also, some characters have acausality when it makes 0 sense for them to have it because the story never allowed it to be displayed, so it has never actually been Shown. Acausality for a specific group of characters is likely which will be explored in a future CRT due to its lengthy explanation.- Adaption -
Reactive Evolution is better for this than adaption is. Adaptation isn't "I seen your ability already so now I know how to counter and nullify it"- Sense and Perception Manipulation
- Having higher senses beyond the 5 basic senses doesn't grant resistance. They're still affected by the loss of 5 senses. It's more like a cheat to bypass the affliction so it looks like they're unaffected.- Resistance to Dream Manipulation - never Shown by any character
- Resistance to Life Manipulation - never shown by any character
All profiles related to the Saints:
From all 8th sense Keys:
- Regeneration - Although Saints have shown a very small degree of regeneration. it's barely better than the average human
- Resistance to Void manipulation and existence erasure - This comes from a variety of misunderstandings, and only a handful of characters have shown this which have specific circumstances for it. This shouldn't be something 90% of the profiles should have.
- Resistance to space and time manipulation -
Same as the above, idk why 90% of the profiles have this. very few characters in verse have shown this and only god tiers are explicitly stated to have a reason to have it.- Dimensional Travel - Only God tiers, and High tier psychics should have this, other than the very few other characters who have shown this ability.
From all God Cloth Keys:
- Regeneration, Resurrections, and immortality Type 4 - Regeneration was never shown or stated in the series at all. It is even specifically stated that 8th sense users cannot regenerate new bodies, and on top of that, it contradicts and conflicts with the story of Next Dimension. Where it's redundantly stated the Gold Saints are dead. Also, wiki policy is that regeneration isn't granted for any off-screen feats which if we did assume regeneration happened would be an offscreen feat
- Space and Time manipulation resistance - This comes from the bronze saints crossing the Super Dimensional Space but that is specifically due to Athena's blood not because of the 8th sense.
All Gods:
- Holy Manipulation - I have no idea where this ability came from, but God Cloths are not shown to have this kind of ability.
From all specter profiles:
- Reality Warping - This can be better described through the use of other abilities
- Regeneration Negation and resistance to it - Will be explored in a future CRT as the Gods are going to be the most affected by this verse overhaul, but essentially all the gods still have some aspects of them left so there aren't any immortalities getting nullified. Although some weapons do have this ability.
- Regeneration Mid Godly -
This isn't regen but better described as resurrection. For example, Hades so far has not gained any new "True Body." however his soul and mind still are around possessing people like Alone, and Shun, who are born to be the perfect host. In GR even when Athena was reduced to her "Astral Form" he was "Reborn" as Sao. For Zeus, I think it would be better described as Type 3 Acausality instead but that will come up in a different CRT. Another example is Typhon who had his body destroyed and he physically had to rebuild a new body through re-birthing one. So this completely debunks regen and makes it more so resurrection.- Immortalities Types 3 (regeneration), and 8 (reliant) - Only a very select few gods have immortality reliant on specific concepts. Concepts in the verse will have their own future CRT dedicated to explaining them
- Conceptual Manipulation - see the above
- Abstract Existence - See the above 2 - until that CRT happens there just isn't any easy way to justify these abilities.
Phoenix Ikki:
- Spatial Manipulation - I have no idea why 90% of the spectres have this. This is dimensional travel, not spatial manipulation but limited Dimensional travel.
- Fire Manipulation - I do not remember any specters having fire manipulation.
Lyra Orphee:
- Mind manipulation resistance - Never shown to resist it
Gemini Saga:
- Illusion creation - I don't remember Orphee creating illusions?
- Sound Manipulation - playing music isn't sound manipulation.......
Gemini Kanon
- Pocket reality Manipulation - as far as I'm aware there isn't any concrete support suggesting Saga creates pocket universes when using "Another Dimension."
- Illusion creation - this can be better described as mind manipulation
- Gravity Manipulation - This is an Episode G Saga only ability
- Invisibility - bruh what? Never shown
Virgo Shaka:
Invisibility - never shown- Illusion creation - better summed up as mind manipulation
Libra Dohko:
- Time Manipulation - this comes from Virgo Asmita's stopping time, but it's not time that is stopped but casualty.
- Light Manipulation - This probably comes from the whole Sunlight in the UW thing, but that can be summed more so with Energy Absorption and an Energy blast than manipulation
- Illusion creation and Memory Manipulation - can just be summed up as mind manipulation
Sagittarius Aiolos:
- Light Manipulation - Same as shaka
- Water Manipulation - Is it cross-scaling from Shiryu? this might be someone from the Omega anime but even then I don't believe he ever used water
Capricorn Shura
- Existence Erasure - Where does this come from? He evaporated the water in the Egyptian soldier's body, "erasing the source of life" was essentially removing the water from their bodies. Also a G only ability.
- Lightening Manipulation - This I know is a GA-only ability
Aquarius Camus
- Regeneration Negation - GA only ability
Aries Shion
- Absolute Zero - he never reaches Absolute Zero in series
Hades:
- Spatial Manipulation - G ability
- Time Manipulation - G ability
- Mind Manipulation - Never Shown
Thanatos:
- Darkness Manipulation - Never Shown
- Portal Creation - Never Shown
- Illusion Creation - Never Shown
- resistance to Blood Manipulation - Never Shown
- Resistance to Causality and Age manipulation - better summed as immortality and acausality (which will have its own Future CRT)
Hypnos:
- Holy Manipulation - makes no sense and is never shown
- BFR - never shown
- Portal Creation - Better described through range feat than this
Pandora
- Holy Manipulation - never shown
Garuda Aiacos:
- Sound and Pain manipulation - never shown
Balrog Lune:
- Gravity Manipulation - never shown
- Mind Manipulation - never shown
Gemini Cain:
- Mind reading - Very circumstantial. This comes from LC about the Books of all humans and their lives on earth. It should be an LC-only thing but even then I don't remember explicitly mind-reading.
Virgo Shijma:
- Spatial Manipulation - Better described by portal creation
- Time Manipulation - same as above
- Immunity to psychokinesis - makes 0 sense, he isn't immune to anything in verse
Capricorn Izo:
- Illusion creation - was anything in the Virgo temple something he set up himself or was it already a trap set up by the Temple? the 4 doors I know aren't real illusions, and neither is Tenbu Horin or the labyrinth. yeah, I don't remember this being shown.
Pisces Cardinale:
- Regeneration Negation -never shown
Chronos:
- Resistance to Poison - Never shown
Garuda Sukiyo:
- Death Manipulation - Never shown
- Higher Dimensional Existence/Manipulation - will have its own future CRT but should go for now until then
Cronus:
- Gravity Manipulation - Never Shown
- Mind Manipulation - Never Shown
- healing -Shown
Equuleus Shoko:
- Shapeshifting - Never Shown
Delphinus Mii:
- Light Manipulation - Never Shown
- Resistance to magic and mind manipulation - Never Shown, and resisting possession is different
Tararus Hasgard:
- resistance to mind manipulation - never shown
- Magic - never shown
- Transmutation - never shown
Virgo Asmita:
- Sound Manipulation - Never Shown
Pisces Albafica:
- Time Stop - is a complete misunderstanding of the ability and should be causality manipulation (will have its own future CRT)
- Blood manipulation - shooting your blood out as a weapon is blood manipulation?
These abilities are either redundant, misunderstanding what the abilities do, never been shown by the character, can be categorized by a more specific ability, or a misunderstanding of context.
Conceptual Manipulation and acausality will be returned to in a future CRT.
These are Abilities, listed below, that need to be evaluated so they can be added to profiles.
All the other abilities on the Blog are abilities that are already accepted from past CRTs and are already currently used on the profiles
Passive Rage Power: The Power, and Potency of Cosmo is increased with rage, allowing characters to even briefly contend with Gold Saints.
resistance to Sealing: A Cosmo user can resist being Sealed
Limited Self-Healing: These users are healed upon using the 7th Sense
Passive Accelerated Development: A saints' skill, speed, and power will continue to improve throughout a fight,[1] and they continue to get stronger every time they are "knocked down." Eventually even surpassing the power of the 12 Gold Saints.[2] Another example, is that Silver Saint Misty was 100 times stronger than Pegasus Seiya. However, in only a couple of minutes, Seiya closed this gap.[3] Cyngys Hyoga, Dragon Shiryu, and Andromeda Shun also showed such growth going from Bronze Saint level to a level that surpasses even Silver Saints.
Passive Supernatural Willpower and Instinctive Reaction: A Saint will continue to fight even when unconscious.[1]
Passive Fate Manipulation, and Fate Manipulation negation, and Statistics Amplification: Miracles allow a character to temporarily draw out power from their infinite Will[1] and thus subsequently this increases all of their physical stats due tot he relationship Cosmo has with physical stats such as speed, stamina, durability, and potency. This power also reshapes the fate imposed upon humans by the gods causing their fate to change.[2]
Acausality: (Type 1) Those splashed with the blood of a god are immune to changes to their "history."[1]
Immortality (Types 1; 3; 7; 8; 9 and 5), and Regeneration (Mid-High): The Specters of Hades are filled with the Divine Will of Hades. They will continue to regenerate as long as the Will of Hades remains within them.[1] Additionally; the Specters of Hades are already dead by default,[2] and they do not possess a concept of death.[3] As a specter serving Hades, Aspros, regenerated from being a fetus, and another specter came back from being turned into a speck of Dust.[4]
Acausality: (Type 1) - Specters are are unaffected by the flow of time.[1]
Void Manipulation: The 9th Sense when mastered allows a character to use Dunamis which is the power of the void
Spatial Manipulation: Dunamis causes the expansion of the Universe
Deconstruction: Dunamis can deconstruct atoms.
Chaos Manipulation, and Elemental Manipulation: Wwhen all elements in the universe are combined it generates Chaos.[1] The 9th Sense when awakened gives the power to control Chaos.
Dimensional Travel, through Gravity Manipulation that creates Portals: Dunamis can be used to link two parallel universes together and open a portal that allows for another Earth to pass through
The Conclusion of this CRT
With all of this. I'd like to introduce something that will make every profile of Saint Seiya on the wiki and future profiles easier. The introduction of the Cosmo Powers and Abilities blog.
This would be linked to profiles so it's no longer a wall of text. for example, the P&A section would read like this
Basic Cosmo user, and Saint of Athena | 7th Sense User | Specter of Hades | 8th Sense User
Gold Saint of Virgo, Saint of Athena, 7th Sense user | 8th Sense User
Etc etc. It makes it 10x faster to edit and read
here is the link to the blog below
sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
Thank you for reading.
Agree: @TheUnshakableOne @LuffyRuffy46307, @AlexZiggy (mostly everything), @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus (same as Griffin), @KingTempest, @Celestial_Pegasus, @UchihaSlayer96
Disagree:
Neutral:
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