All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[TimmyTurnero]

He doesn't

I don't get what you're saying here.

Maybe you should re-read that thread, the issue was the claim that he would be thousands of times lesser despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary

I've read it, and there is no evidence. A majority of the evidence is people just complaining about the change going through.
The only example of the KHH being a small boost is in the Saiyan saga, and even then the context of the scene is ignored. The KHH doesn't sightly multiply the output of ones ki via a multiplier, it gathers their ki and concentrate it which drastically increases the output of their attack. That number can grow higher if more ki is being concentrated.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I have a question, in the manga, while Goku and Vegeta were in their Base Forms, their combination of Kamehameha and Gamma Burst Flash warped the World of Void and changed its color, shouldn't it gave them new justifications, upgrades and abilities by the end of the Universe Survival Saga? Since they were capable of performing a feat that their previous CSSB states prior to likely/possibly breaking limits were unable to do despite them fighting at full power.

I believe it is a much better feat

 

[SirAlex09]

Bro straight up annihilated him damn XD this is like Beerus Hakaing Zamasu XD

 

[DesuGoten]

Akira Toriyama is the standard for modern day Shounen.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

I don't get what you're saying here.

I said cell doesn't scale to his Kamehameha, not sure what you don't get

I've read it, and there is no evidence. A majority of the evidence is people just complaining about the change going through.

Really? Well then agree to disagree, if that's all you saw

The only example of the KHH being a small boost is in the Saiyan saga,

Ironic, this is actually the largest boost we saw from a Kamehameha up until the cell arc, a 2.22x multiplier

and even then the context of the scene is ignored. The KHH doesn't sightly multiply the output of ones ki via a multiplier, it gathers their ki and concentrate it which drastically increases the output of their attack. That number can grow higher if more ki is being concentrated.

No one said it slightly increases, normal anyo say it doesn't upscale from the user's normal stats, but that it has never ever brought out thousands of times more power than what the user is capable of and just assuming that cell's Kamehameha, which is termed as a basic Kamehameha does that out of the blue with no evidence, was wrong


I am not interested in going through this again anyway


So this is the last I'll say on it

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

I have a question, in the manga, while Goku and Vegeta were in their Base Forms, their combination of Kamehameha and Gamma Burst Flash warped the World of Void and changed its color,

They were in base when they did this? Are you sure? Wasn't this when Jiren broke his limit on them?


Edit: looking at it again, it just seems that they lit up the area, the color came back after the beams had dissipated I believe

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

They were in base when they did this? Are you sure? Wasn't this when Jiren broke his limit on them?

I read the chapter 42 colorized not too long ago, and yes, the feat was performed by both Goku and Vegeta in their Base states, you can read the colored chapter to confirm if you want, this was after Goku's PUI ran out after fighting a full power Jiren

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bro straight up annihilated him damn XD this is like Beerus Hakaing Zamasu XD

This crt was a total blast

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I said cell doesn't scale to his Kamehameha, not sure what you don't get

It just seemed out of place, you implied with the other statement that I was wrong in disagreeing with the people who argued against the CRT, hence the confusion. Do you agree or not is what I didn't understand.

Really? Well then agree to disagree, if that's all you saw

Sure

Ironic, this is actually the largest boost we saw from a Kamehameha up until the cell arc, a 2.22x multiplier

Which is irrelevant because the attack isn't a static multiplier, it's compressing ki into a single point which boosts the power, this number can change depending on how much energy is put into it, someone being vastly stronger than this version of Goku having a higher boost when concentrating their ki isn't dumbfounded.

No one said it slightly increases, normal anyo say it doesn't upscale from the user's normal stats, but that it has never ever brought out thousands of times more power than what the user is capable of and just assuming that cell's Kamehameha, which is termed as a basic Kamehameha does that out of the blue with no evidence, was wrong

This argument doesn't work because the KHH never had an established multiplier nor is there anything indicating that it cannot grow beyond 2.2x. The technique takes ki, compress/concentrates it into a small point then releases it as an explosive blast. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone at that level has a higher boost from the KHH when using it.

I am not interested in going through this again anyway


So this is the last I'll say on it

Sure

 

[Killerdrone123]

Damn didn't get the notification again missed a lot of things

 

[Tyranno223]

This crt was a total blast

Was a fun flash back to that Hypertimelines debacle.

 

[Killerdrone123]

DBZ Buu is planet level

DBS BoG Goku isn't scale to the shockwave thus no Uni Goku

Add narrator being non credible to

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

It just seemed out of place, you implied with the other statement that I was wrong in disagreeing with the people who argued against the CRT, hence the confusion. Do you agree or not is what I didn't understand.


Sure

Which is irrelevant because the attack isn't a static multiplier, it's compressing ki into a single point which boosts the power, this number can change depending on how much energy is put into it, someone being vastly stronger than this version of Goku having a higher boost when concentrating their ki isn't dumbfounded.

This argument doesn't work because the KHH never had an established multiplier nor is there anything indicating that it cannot grow beyond 2.2x. The technique takes ki, compress/concentrates it into a small point then releases it as an explosive blast. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone at that level has a higher boost from the KHH when using it.

Sure

"KHH increases the user's powerh. Thus I'll assume this one KHH with no shred of evidence, boosts this particular user by several thousand times ...just because...."


if you don't see anything wrong here

Good for you

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Was a fun flash back to that Hypertimelines debacle.

I remember, don't get me started.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Add narrator being non credible to

It would be difficult to deny it, since there are even Toei stating on its website that Goku would bring the entire Universe to nothing

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Edit: looking at it again, it just seems that they lit up the area, the color came back after the beams had dissipated I believe

Read the chapter 42 colorized on all possible sites, you will see in all of them that after Goku and Vegeta's combined Gamma Burst Flash and Kamehameha, you can see better how the World of Void's original color, green, becames bluish purple after the combination of attacks from these two and remained permanently with this color until the end of the Tournament of Power.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

"KHH increases the user's powerh. Thus I'll assume this one KHH with no shred of evidence, boosts this particular user by several thousand times ...just because...."


if you don't see anything wrong here

Good for you

It's funny because we already kinda do that with Roshi lol

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

It's funny because we already kinda do that with Roshi lol

In Roshi's case, he could only do that on his MAX form, and he couldn't do anything else, couldn't fight with it or do.... anything else, he literally just used that fork to fire a KHH and then it gasses out, literally. His case is quite justified, there's nothing to scale it to

Read the chapter 42 colorized on all possible sites, you will see in all of them that after Goku and Vegeta's combined Gamma Burst Flash and Kamehameha, you can see better how the World of Void's original color, green, becames bluish purple after the combination of attacks from these two and remained permanently with this color until the end of the Tournament of Power.

I mean, if they did permanently change the color, then you may have a case

 

[TimmyTurnero]

"KHH increases the user's powerh. Thus I'll assume this one KHH with no shred of evidence, boosts this particular user by several thousand times ...just because...."


if you don't see anything wrong here

Good for you

Don t strawman me, I never implied that. The manga and the guidebooks support that the multiplier isn't static and can increase. It's method of increasing power literally makes it to where something like Cell is possible.

 

[Tyranno223]

Don t strawman me, I never implied that. The manga and the guidebooks support that the multiplier isn't static and can increase. It's method of increasing power literally makes it to where something like Cell is possible.

There is a limit to what you can assume though. Precedence makes multipliers of 2, 3, etc reasonable and very accetable. But a multipler of thousands is different.

Very little in Dragon Ball multiplies power by thousands of times till Super (or Toei stuff) making it a stretch to say the least.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Real talk, what would it take for God Fusion Goku to qualify for Ultima's R>F?

 

[Padaruyos]

Seems the way we scale things going forward is scaling Fat Buu's Kamehameha above the Solar Kamehameha, and then scaling SS3 Goku to it since he swatted it away easily. Then Cell Saga characters can just downscale via multipliers.

 

[Tyranno223]

Seems the way we scale things going forward is scaling Fat Buu's Kamehameha above the Solar Kamehameha, and then scaling SS3 Goku to it since he swatted it away easily. Then Cell Saga characters can just downscale via multipliers.

This feels more roundabout than just saying Gohan's barely charged Kamehameha = Solar Kamehameha but I guess it works.

 

[Padaruyos]

This feels more roundabout than just saying Gohan's barely charged Kamehameha = Solar Kamehameha but I guess it works.

Gohan's physicals would be scaled to 1/4th Solar Kamehameha lmao

 

[Shadyboi0]

Gohan's physicals would be scaled to 1/4th Solar Kamehameha lmao

Honestly not that bad

 

[StekFence]

Real talk, what would it take for God Fusion Goku to qualify for Ultima's R>F?

Visually, it doesn’t appear like the audience is treated transcending goku or anything else, but maybe some dialogue says otherwise, this is pretty important to prove r/f as I recall. Of course I could be wrong

 

[Tyranno223]

Gohan's physicals would be scaled to 1/4th Solar Kamehameha lmao

That seems pretty solid then. It's within the multipliers a Kamehameha has demonstrated before if a bit high.

 

[StekFence]

Outer goku would be peak tho

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Real talk, what would it take for God Fusion Goku to qualify for Ultima's R>F?

Afaik, it would need him to don´t interact with the "Real world" in anyway and don´t be relative to them in power, things that he explicit doesn´t does during the movie iirc

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Talk about God Fusion Goku remember me of the "Jump Force Goku is the strongest version of Goku" argument

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I said cell doesn't scale to his Kamehameha, not sure what you don't get

And what about Gohan considering he didn’t take much time to charge his Kamehameha?

 

[Vietthai96]

Add narrator being non credible to

Akira Toriyama's words, manga's statements and Toei's official guidebooks are headcanon

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

And what about Gohan considering he didn’t take much time to charge his Kamehameha?

When I say doesn't scale

I mean doesn't scale 1;1

Charge time on cell vs Gohan is hardly relevant since Gohan's KHH matches Cell's despite the much shorter charge time

They both don't scale 1:1, but clearly won't scale thousands of times less, even putting Gohan's (and this Cell's) as 5x less is being kind, but they shouldn't go below 4b

Edit: reading the recent posts on the thread before it was closed it seems Gohan may now scale to either 1/4 or 1/8 of his Kamehameha, which would finally throw the thousands of time scale away

 

[Shadyboi0]

I'd hope nobody thinks Gohan physicals are 1.053 KiloFOE.

 

[Damage3245]

I do think it's a bit funny that there are people complaining about the possibility of Cell having a Kamehameha thousands of times stronger than him (and I'm not saying those concerns weren't unwarranted) but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

 

[Hasty12345]

I do think it's a bit funny that there are people complaining about the possibility of Cell having a Kamehameha thousands of times stronger than him (and I'm not saying those concerns weren't unwarranted) but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

There was also a time we had characters jump to tier 2 from tier 3 with a 50x multiplier due to feats.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I do think it's a bit funny that there are people complaining about the possibility of Cell having a Kamehameha thousands of times stronger than him (and I'm not saying those concerns weren't unwarranted) but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

Iirc he downscales from goku or vegito and him holding off buu things doesn't have to make sense all the time it is fiction anything can happen as per writers will

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I do think it's a bit funny that there are people complaining about the possibility of Cell having a Kamehameha thousands of times stronger than him (and I'm not saying those concerns weren't unwarranted) but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

i think the profiles are assuming getting absorbed by Super Buu makes characters stronger somehow. If I’m right about that then imo it’s a kinda dumb reason, but that would mean there’s a reason for it.

Also regardless of the reason I agree the profiles should explain how they got so much stronger.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

I do think it's a bit funny that there are people complaining about the possibility of Cell having a Kamehameha thousands of times stronger than him (and I'm not saying those concerns weren't unwarranted) but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

nope we have an explanation for it right on his profile its called Accelerated development/Reactive power level and its not even the craziest jump in power. Base goku went from 4-B to 2-C as well in the span of a single fight

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

but at the same time on our profiles we have things like Toei Vegeta jumping from "At least Galaxy level" to "Low Multiverse level" with no real explanation as to how he got that much stronger. All that happened was that Vegeta got some feats on that level later on that didn't make any sense with how strong he was portrayed earlier and so he got a new key with that rating. Internal consistency be damned.

Toei is a cluster of inconsistency

Vegeta and Goku got that powerful from beating perfect clones of mystic Gohan and ssj3 Gotenks in their ssj form, yet the same duo were scared of facing super Buu, who Gohan previously trounced, so both Goku/Vegeta and super Buu all made nonsensical gains

That's not even the worst thing Toei did

Yamcha stomped oolibu who kept up with weighted pillow who oneshotted Super perfect cell