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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Nullflowerblush said:
Click to expand...
By combining all of my initiatives!

Dragon Ball Era​

  • Jackie Chun destroys the Moon via MAX Power Kamehameha. >29.6 Exatons (Moon level)
    • Jackie Chun grew even stronger before the 22nd Budokai.
    • Had they continued fighting, Tien Shinhan would have defeated Jackie Chun.
  • Using the Four Witches Technique, Tien doubles his "attack power". >59.2 Exatons
    • Goku can contend with and even defeat the Four Witches Technique.
  • At less than half strength, Old King Piccolo tanks Goku's Kamehameha head-on. >236.8 Exatons (Moon level+)
  • Via the Ultra Divine Water, Goku's hidden power is drawn out. >592 Exatons (Small Planet level)
  • Training under Kami and Mr. Popo, Goku's strength doubled. >~1.184 Zettatons

Frieza Saga​

  • First Form Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta. >14.82449109 Quettatons (Small Star level)
  • After transforming, Frieza's power "more than" doubled. >29.6489822 Quettatons
  • With each transformation, (Third Form) Frieza's power is increased further by many-times. >59.2979644 Quettatons
    • Empowered by rage, Gohan damages Third Form Frieza.
  • Post-Zenkai Goku battles evenly with Frieza for an extended period of time. >118.595929 Quettatons (Small Star level+)
  • The Kaio-ken x20 amplifies Goku's abilities by twenty-fold. >2371.91858 Quettatons (Large Star level)
    • At 50%, Frieza deflects the Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha with one hand.
      • At 100%, Frieza exchanges blows with Super Saiyan Goku. >4743.83716 Quettatons
  • As a Super Saiyan, Goku's strength is multiplied by fifty-times. >5929.79645 Quettatons

Trunks the Story -The Lone Warrior-/Trunks Saga​

  • Having trained and fought with the Androids for nearly two decades, Future Gohan is far stronger than his younger self. >59.2979644 Quettatons
  • As a Super Saiyan, Gohan's strength is multiplied by fifty-times. >2964.89822 Quettatons
  • Future Android 17 battled SSJ Future Gohan with less than half of his full power. >5929.79645 Quettatons
  • After mechanizing, Frieza grows further in power again. >9487.67432 Quettatons
    • SSJ Future Trunks defeated Frieza "in seconds".

Cell Saga​

  • Imperfect Cell is stronger than SSJ Vegeta. >9487.67432 Quettatons
    • Kamicolo is far stronger than Cell.
    • Kamicolo and Android 17 are equal in strength.
    • After absorbing 600,000+ Earthlings, Cell gained power exceeding that of Kamicolo and Android 17.
  • Android 17's Barrier negates Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade. >18975.3486 Quettatons
  • Via Absorption, Cell adds Android 17's power atop its own. >1.19092146 Foe
    • Even as regular Super Saiyans, Post-RoSaT Vegeta and Trunks surpass Semi-Perfect Cell.
      • In their normal forms, Vegeta and Trunks are fifty-times weaker. >569.260458 Quettatons (Star level+)
    • Super Vegeta and Second Grade SSJ Trunks are far stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell.
  • Perfect Cell emerges unscathed after withstanding Super Vegeta's Lucora Gun. >2.38184292 Foe
    • Super Trunks surpasses Cell in strength.
    • The Cell Juniors possess Cell's power.
    • Post-2nd RoSaT SSJ Vegeta and Trunks can fight equally with the Cell Juniors.
      • In their normal forms, Vegeta and Trunks are fifty-times weaker. >1138.52092 Quettatons
    • Post-RoSaT Piccolo can hold off the Cell Juniors.
  • Cell undergoes a Super Saiyan Third Grade-like (同様 dōyō; "identical") transformation. >119.092146 Foe (Solar System level)

Cell Games Saga (Pt. 1)​

  • At half strength, SSJ Goku far surpasses the Z-Fighters, including the likes of Trunks. >4.76368584 Foe
    • In his normal form, Goku is fifty-times weaker. >2277.04184 Quettatons

World Tournament Saga​

  • The East Supreme Kai, Shin, is "dimensions apart" from Piccolo. >2.38184292 Foe
    • Long story short, Gohan is stronger than Shin.
  • As a Super Saiyan 2, Gohan's strength is increased by a hundred-fold. >238.184292 Foe

Babidi Saga​

  • SSJ Gohan exchanges blows "evenly" with Dabura. >119.092146 Foe

Cell Games Saga (Pt. 2)​

  • Despite a self-imposed limitation born of a gentle-heartedness, SSJ Gohan is stronger than Babidi Saga SSJ Gohan. >119.092146 Foe
    • Without even powering up further from the fight with Goku, Cell stomps a passive Gohan.
    • At full power, Cell far surpasses anything demonstrated prior, barring the power of a next-level Super Saiyan.
  • Blinded by anger, Cell enters a Third Grade-like form again. >5.9546073 KiloFOE
    • SSJ2 Gohan two-shots Powerweighted Cell.
      • At full power, SSJ Gohan should be half as strong. >2.97730365 KiloFOE
      • In his normal form, Gohan is one-hundred-times weaker. >59.546073 Foe
    • Super Perfect Cell is more powerful than ever.

Majin Buu Saga​

Fusion Saga​

  • Despite Piccolo believing they needed Super Saiyan based off of their previous performance, after training in the Room of Spirit and Time, Gotenks grew powerful enough that Piccolo believed he could battle Super Buu normally; ultimately, though, he needed Super Saiyan. >1.19092146 MegaFOE
  • In SSJ, Gotenks is fifty-times stronger than in his normal form. >59.546073 MegaFOE
  • In SSJ3, Gotenks is eight-times stronger than before. >476.368584 MegaFOE
    • Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks are equally matched.
    • Buutenks is stronger than Super Buu, but weaker than Ultimate Gohan yet.
    • Ultimate Gohan far surpasses the abilities of Super Saiyan 3. (requires citation)
  • By absorbing Gotenks and then Gohan, Buu gains infinite power. >952.737168 MegaFOE
  • By virtue of a rival boost, the fusion of Goku and Vegeta (Vegito) is more powerful than the fusion of Goku and Gohan. (requires citation) >476.368584 MegaFOE
  • Super Vegito is the greatest known superpower in the universe, eclipsing the likes of Buuhan. >23.8184292 GigaFOE

i think.
 
Hm.
Then, >11.0779159 Zettatons Post-Ultra Divine Water Goku, perhaps?
That places Tien Shinhan Saga Goku (est.) twenty-times higher than MAX Power Roshi from the Tournament Saga.

The explanation implies the only significant boost Goku received between the King Piccolo Saga and the Raditz Saga was from training with Kami and Mr. Popo, which further suggests he either trained very little/not at all, or that he only engaged in light training between the end of DB and Z, unlike Piccolo.
 
Future Gohan and 17 scaling doesn’t make sense, IIRC Trunks was only around Future Gohans level before he traveled to the past
If anything F.17 (2x)> F. Gohan ~ F. Trunks > Mecha Freeza.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Before he fought the Androids and was defeated. An unknown period of time passed between then and when he leaves for the past. Furthermore, he is depicted as and explicitly confirmed by supplementary material to possess power comparable to Goku's—Future Gohan was weaker than Goku.
Click to expand...
Right, Trunks probably got a Zenkai boost from his ass beating and then probably got a little stronger again from his brief sparring match with Goku due to his Saiyan biology. Honestly I feel like Trunks needs a new key for his History of Trunks self.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Before he fought the Androids and was defeated. An unknown period of time passed between then and when he leaves for the past. Furthermore, he is depicted as and explicitly confirmed by supplementary material to possess power comparable to Goku's—Future Gohan was weaker than Goku.
Click to expand...
That would still leave the issue of F.17 scaling below Mecha Freezas level, If Trunks had grown strong enough to casually defeat someone 2x stronger than 17 he’d have no need for time traveling in the first place or alternatively would have beaten them as soon as he returned to the future.

About F. Gohan he was most likely him referring to post yardrat Goku and in the 3 years before he died, not Namek era Goku pre yardrat training.

Also I wouldn’t take guide statements saying F. Trunks and Goku were comparable, in the manga and their sparring it’s made clear Goku has a substantial advantage over Trunks, he was focusing his ki in one finger and didn’t even take fighting stance to block Trunks’ serious two handed swings.

Edit: Super in both versions reinforces the idea of what a sparring between Goku and Trunks that are evenly matched would look like, their android saga encounter is nothing like that further solidifying Goku was > Tunks at that point.

TL;DR
F.17 >/~ Post Yardrat Goku >Trunks > Mecha Freeza ~ /> Gohan ~ Namek Goku.
 
Last edited:
Trunk was also holding back, although I do agree Future Gohan was referring to Post-Yadrat Goku.

Although it should be noted that even if Trunks was stronger than a single android, he often has to 1v2 them and especially cause they never tire.
 
BlastX said:
Trunk was also holding back, although I do agree Future Gohan was referring to Post-Yadrat Goku.

Although it should be noted that even if Trunks was stronger than a single android, he often has to 1v2 them and especially cause they never tire.
Click to expand...
No, Trunks actually says he is going to get serious before they start, and he has a strained expression through all of the panels where he swings at Goku.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Either way they need to be added in some capacity since they're a huge cornerstone in the scaling.
Click to expand...
Honestly I feel you should have them both in a single profile, considering they don't hesitate when to jump in when the other is in trouble.
 
BlastX said:
Trunk was also holding back, although I do agree Future Gohan was referring to Post-Yadrat Goku.

Although it should be noted that even if Trunks was stronger than a single android, he often has to 1v2 them and especially cause they never tire.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the basis of this scaling is the 2x raw power = tanking/ nullifying with 0 damage, androids can’t be half as strong as someone Trunks made short work off and prove to be an issue to him afterwards, and even though we don’t see them fighting a lot, on their final encounter both androids were confident 18 alone could kill trunks, meaning that they were either at least on par or outright superior to him individually ( before RoSAT training)
 
Spinoirr said:
Yeah it's at bare minimum stronger then blue evolved even in sign, but it's power does varies and Ultra Instinct adapts to its opponents strength without limit and Ultra Ego grows stronger without limit the more Vegeta's battle spirt grows

Both of their powers depend on their mindset
Click to expand...
What you guys think about listing UI and Vegeta in UE have a "varies from higher to Far Higher with Ultra Instinct/Ultra Ego" ratting for their manga counterparts given their power varies depending on their mindset
 
AguilaR202 said:
Yeah but the basis of this scaling is the 2x raw power = tanking/ nullifying with 0 damage, androids can’t be half as strong as someone Trunks made short work off and prove to be an issue to him afterwards, and even though we don’t see them fighting a lot, on their final encounter both androids were confident 18 alone could kill trunks, meaning that they were either at least on par or outright superior to him individually ( before RoSAT training)
Click to expand...
Why did you reply to me twice?
 
AguilaR202 said:
About F. Gohan he was most likely him referring to post yardrat Goku and in the 3 years before he died, not Namek era Goku pre yardrat training.
Click to expand...
Ah, right.
I completely forgot about that.
AguilaR202 said:
Also I wouldn’t take guide statements saying F. Trunks and Goku were comparable, in the manga and their sparring it’s made clear Goku has a substantial advantage over Trunks, he was focusing his ki in one finger and didn’t even take fighting stance to block Trunks’ serious two handed swings.
Click to expand...
Trunks was only testing Goku's ability; nothing implies that they were competing with all of their strength; that, and concentrating Ki towards a smaller, singular point on the body significantly amplifies its power.

If anything, Goku taking up such a defensive stance only confirms how close Trunks is to Goku.
AguilaR202 said:
further solidifying Goku was > Tunks at that point.
Click to expand...
Goku can be stronger than Future Trunks and Future Trunks still be stronger than Future Gohan by virtue of his proximity to the former.
AguilaR202 said:
TL;DR
F.17 >/~ Post Yardrat Goku >Trunks > Mecha Freeza ~ /> Gohan ~ Namek Goku.
Click to expand...
That's fine.
All that means is that the scaling chain gets bumped by another two-fold.

Although, I'm not sure about Gohan scaling to Post-Zenkai Goku. We don't really have any evidence to support that, do we?
 
Speaking of Trunks, why isn’t Future Trunks separated into two profiles based on his different eras? (Z and Super respectively).
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Although, I'm not sure about Gohan scaling to Post-Zenkai Goku. We don't really have any evidence to support that, do we?
Click to expand...
I remember one interview stating that there's a threshold of power level a saiyan must hit before being able to become a Super Saiyan (probably 3 million) so we can scale Future Gohan from that.
 
Shouldn't Yajirobe be Planet Level with his Katana since he cut through Vegeta's armor as well as cut off his tail? Yeah, he was surprised by the second one but he explicitly stated he was on-guard due to Krillin being out of sight.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Shouldn't Yajirobe be Planet Level with his Katana since he cut through Vegeta's armor as well as cut off his tail? Yeah, he was surprised by the second one but he explicitly stated he was on-guard due to Krillin being out of sight.
Click to expand...
Vegeta was also in his last legs at that point.
 
BlastX said:
Not everything requires separation, only when a profile gets too bloated for it.
Click to expand...
Sure, but I think Trunks qualifies for that bloating. At least to me, personally.
BlastX said:
I remember one interview stating that there's a threshold of power level a saiyan must hit before being able to become a Super Saiyan (probably 3 million) so we can scale Future Gohan from that.
Click to expand...
If we’re to use interviews on power thresholds, that means I can totally say Super Bardock’s PL is beneath 24K, since that’s seemingly when the “so strong your Tail stops regrowing” mark is. (This is where Vegeta was in power when his tail didn’t regrow). However, Kid Gohan at 2800 still could regrow his tail. Maybe I can do something with this…
 
Not really, Gohan even said trunks was gonna surpass him in a few months, of course that would have happened hadn't he went to his death.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Toriyama said "one can’t reach the quantity necessary for becoming a Super Saiyan simply by having a gentle spirit, so a certain amount of battle power is indeed necessary", but arguing said amount is that of post-Zenkai Goku requires that Gohan be stronger than Goku was as a Super Saiyan, given he squarely outclasses young Trunks.
Click to expand...
I meeeeeaaaaaaaannnnnnn….mmmmmm. The gap between Namek Goku and Yardrat Goku was never really substantiated all that well beyond the fact that SSJ Goku >~ SSJ Trunks, who casually nuked M.Frieza, and M.Frieza > (by some large degree) 100% Frieza (and probably SSJ Namek Goku given his confidence). So it’s not impossible that the gap is actually this large. Especially since there’s the 3 years training to account for, too.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Sure, but I think Trunks qualifies for that bloating. At least to me, personally.

If we’re to use interviews on power thresholds, that means I can totally say Super Bardock’s PL is beneath 24K, since that’s seemingly when the “so strong your Tail stops regrowing” mark is. (This is where Vegeta was in power when his tail didn’t regrow). However, Kid Gohan at 2800 still could regrow his tail. Maybe I can do something with this…
Click to expand...
I thought 2.8K was only for Angry Masenko.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Especially since there’s the 3 years training to account for, too.
Click to expand...
Goku was only on Yardrat for about a year.
The future Z-Fighters didn't have the three years notice to begin preparing for the Androids so we don't know if they grew similarly in strength.
BlastX said:
I thought 2.8K was only for Angry Masenko.
Click to expand...
Piccolo's Power Level (three thousand-something) exceeded that of the Masenko's, and he stated that, at full power, Gohan surpassed him.
 
GI3xYXFWEAAsl5m
 
Honestly, you could probably argue, narratively, that 3,000,000 is the required Power Level for Super Saiyan.

Numerous times is Goku described as having transcended the limits of a normal Saiyan by that time, and Vegeta goes from "He may be the Super Saiyan" after he arrives on Namek to "He is the Super Saiyan" after he emerges from the Medical Machine.

but like
might not pass here
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Honestly, you could probably argue, narratively, that 3,000,000 is the required Power Level for Super Saiyan.

Numerous times is Goku described as having transcended the limits of a normal Saiyan by that time, and Vegeta goes from "He may be the Super Saiyan" after he arrives on Namek to "He is the Super Saiyan" after he emerges from the Medical Machine.

but like
might not pass here
Click to expand...
Unless the plot demands it like with Bardock and Saiyan Saga Vegeta in the Budokai 1 What If about him winning.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Numerous times is Goku described as having transcended the limits of a normal Saiyan by that time, and Vegeta goes from "He may be the Super Saiyan" after he arrives on Namek to "He is the Super Saiyan" after he emerges from the Medical Machine.
Click to expand...
Being real, Vegeta had no idea what a Super Saiyan really was.
 
Damage3245 said:
Being real, Vegeta had no idea what a Super Saiyan really was.
Click to expand...
Sure, but this implication is supported by Ginyu, who considered Goku a “mutant” for being what he estimated was 60K, and beyond Saiyan norms. Given Toriyama said there is a minimum, Vegeta’s references, and Ginyu’s statement, it’s not strange to consider that 3 million is the minimum in question.
 
I think profiles for the Budokai versions of the characters would be awesome since they have a lot of what if possibilities in them, though I still think SSJ Saiyan Saga Vegeta is hilarious in concept, especially with his trigger for it.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I think profiles for the Budokai versions of the characters would be awesome since they have a lot of what if possibilities in them, though I still think SSJ Saiyan Saga Vegeta is hilarious in concept, especially with his trigger for it.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of them that got left on the wayside, like SSJ4 Buu Saga Goku or SSJ3 Cell Game Goku based on the voice lines.
 
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