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Death Battle REMATCH | Madara vs Aizen 2.0

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Doesn't just any type of genjustu **** aizen espcially without hogyoku aizen has shown lil resistence to mind trick and hell shinji probably woulda won if he didnt spend all day explaining to him and twerling his sword
 
Doesn't just any type of genjustu **** aizen espcially without hogyoku aizen has shown lil resistence to mind trick and hell shinji probably woulda won if he didnt spend all day explaining to him and twerling his sword
I'd wait for Arcker to respond about that. As for mine, Reikaku exists and isn't gonna let Madara control his senses as it works as a spiritual pair of eyes. GJ can't affect Aizen's Reikaku as Aizen will still see everything. Reikaku also takes over as his primary sense in battle too, so Madara won't be able to GJ him before he uses it as it is subconcious.

In regards to Shinji, he can affect Reikaku, so that's why Sakanade worked on Aizen. Even as Madara controls his senses, Aizen can easily adapt to whatever GJ he places him under as not only Reikaku will allow him to see what's really happening, but he also adapted to Shinji's Shikai as well reversing his senses.

The only way he can affect him with GJ is IT, and Aizen can Shunpo to him to stop it either with SI or just, you know, stabbing him. This is giving IT the benefit of the doubt that it can even affect Aizen as argued in the last thread that Aizen would resist it as well.
 
I'd wait for Arcker to respond about that. As for mine, Reikaku exists and isn't gonna let Madara control his senses as it works as a spiritual pair of eyes.
The reason Reikaku would stop GJ is specifically because it negates the user's actual eyesight, not because it's a spirtual eyes.
The only way he can affect him with GJ is IT,
Nobody has given an argument as to why yet, when it failed to work on the Edo. I'd hold off on this claim

Edit: Madara doesn't have infinite Tsukuyomi in the key he's fighting this Aizen. This is the Madara that fought Gai.
In regards to Shinji, he can affect Reikaku, so that's why Sakanade worked on Aizen. Even as Madara controls his senses, Aizen can easily adapt to whatever GJ he places him under as not only Reikaku will allow him to see what's really happening, but he also adapted to Shinji's Shikai as well reversing his senses.
Stop using this argument, it's bad and unneccesary. Unless Madara has feats of GJ'ng blind people, he's not affecting Aizen with any GJ.
 
The reason Reikaku would stop GJ is specifically because it negates the user's actual eyesight, not because it's a spirtual eyes.
Ah, I see.
Nobody has given an argument as to why yet, when it failed to work on the Edo. I'd hold off on this claim

Edit: Madara doesn't have infinite Tsukuyomi in the key he's fighting this Aizen. This is the Madara that fought Gai.
I pointed this out when I noticed the keys and I thought I was wrong, thanks for correcting me.
Stop using this argument, it's bad and unneccesary. Unless Madara has feats of GJ'ng blind people, he's not affecting Aizen with any GJ.
Ok pookie
 
I was curious of yours. But he has Caja Negacion, Superior AP, Kurohitsugi's gravity, and superior intellect. He also has other forms of sealing with Kido as well.
 
One thing I’m curious about Reikaku which I forgot to ask in the previous matchup. I acknowledge its ability, but there has been cases like Gotei 13 being affected by Kyoka Suigetsu cuz they ‘looked’ at Aizen’s Zanpakuto, or how Aizen was affected by Shinji’s Bankai cuz he ‘looked’ at his Zanpakuto (despite Shinji literally admitting that his Bankai can control senses before using it), this leads me to believe it’s not a passive ability, and unless Aizen has prior knowledge of Genjutsu, I doubt he’d put up Reikaku right off the bat.
 
ability, but there has been cases like Gotei 13 being affected by Kyoka Suigetsu cuz they ‘looked’ at Aizen’s Zanpakuto,
They weren't in combat. Reikaku passively procs in combat.
how Aizen was affected by Shinji’s Bankai cuz he ‘looked’ at his Zanpakuto
Shinji's Sakanade works through smell, not sight.
this leads me to believe it’s not a passive ability,
You would be wrong. It's stated to be passive
 
One thing I’m curious about Reikaku which I forgot to ask in the previous matchup. I acknowledge its ability, but there has been cases like Gotei 13 being affected by Kyoka Suigetsu cuz they ‘looked’ at Aizen’s Zanpakuto, or how Aizen was affected by Shinji’s Bankai cuz he ‘looked’ at his Zanpakuto (despite Shinji literally admitting that his Bankai can control senses before using it), this leads me to believe it’s not a passive ability, and unless Aizen has prior knowledge of Genjutsu, I doubt he’d put up Reikaku right off the bat.
1. Aizen's Shikai effects reikaku and also they weren't fighting so it wasn't there anyway.

2. Reikaku automatically overtakes his actual vision in combat.

3. Shinji's Shikai actually uses smoke that when inhaled causes the effects of Sakanade. It's not sight.
 
To add to Arcker's point Aizen showed people the hypnosis ritual under false Pretenses thus they wouldn't be in a combat state where reikaku overtakes sight
 
They weren't in combat. Reikaku passively procs in combat.

Shinji's Sakanade works through smell, not sight.

You would be wrong. It's stated to be passive

1. Aizen's Shikai effects reikaku and also they weren't fighting so it wasn't there anyway.

2. Reikaku automatically overtakes his actual vision in combat.

3. Shinji's Shikai actually uses smoke that when inhaled causes the effects of Sakanade. It's not sight.
Aight, this pretty much clears it up. Thanks for that, it’s been a while since I’ve read Bleach so the TYBW anime made me think Shinji’s Bankai was sight based. But Shunsui’s statement makes me think that the battle starts with using both eyesight and Reikaku and overtime does it shift to only using Reikaku. Cuz Shunsui specifically says “everyone that uses their reiatsu in battle” is using both eyesight and Reikaku subconsciously and “the more one focuses in battle” does it shift to Reikaku only. This all implies that it’s overtime and not an instant shift.
 
This all implies that it’s overtime and not an instant shift.
This is also wrong.

Shunsui is able to use the red-light green light game (A game which requires the Reikaku to he active to work) at the beginning of his fight with Lille. It procs as soon as the fighter is battle ready. It's not a meaningful time delay.
 
are people seriously arguing about reikaku perception? It's clearly passive.

1. Aizen negs madhara's illusion with reikaku perception and traps him into stronger illusion.
2. Immobilises madhara with sp might even kill him.
3. Slices madhara's soul in half
4. Kurohitsugi, hado 54 and multiple other kidos GG
5. Nagacion gg.
Aizen would definitely get to play his cards
 
Even though Aizen doesn't have hogyoku, he can still use kido and he has KS. I think Aizen will win, but I will watch this issue.
 
One thing I’m curious about Reikaku which I forgot to ask in the previous matchup. I acknowledge its ability, but there has been cases like Gotei 13 being affected by Kyoka Suigetsu cuz they ‘looked’ at Aizen’s Zanpakuto, or how Aizen was affected by Shinji’s Bankai cuz he ‘looked’ at his Zanpakuto (despite Shinji literally admitting that his Bankai can control senses before using it), this leads me to believe it’s not a passive ability, and unless Aizen has prior knowledge of Genjutsu, I doubt he’d put up Reikaku right off the bat.
No, Aizen does not need to show her sword to hypnotize someone. She can hypnotize her opponents through her reiatsu without drawing her sword.
Doesn’t Madara have layered mind hax resistance? How would KS even work on him?
Aizen's KS is considered in the wiki as perception manipulation, not mind manipulation.
 
When was this shown? Hell Ichigo was never under KS cuz he never saw the sword.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sharingan?so=search The Sharingan has resistance to Perception Manipulation as well
Can genjutsu users understand a perception manipulation that controls the 5 senses? It is not explained very well in the link you sent, so it would be very reasonable if you explain it in more detail.
Yes, even if Madara resists KS, the AP difference will not change and Aizen can still use kido and Aizen can probably resist Madara's genjustsu.
 

That’s TYBW Aizen, not base Aizen. The reason TYBW Aizen can do this is cuz he fused with his Zanpakuto.
Can genjutsu users understand a perception manipulation that controls the 5 senses? It is not explained very well in the link you sent, so it would be very reasonable if you explain it in more detail.
Yes, even if Madara resists KS, the AP difference will not change and Aizen can still use kido and Aizen can probably resist Madara's genjustsu.
It’s shown to affect sight, touch and hearing. So KS likely would only work against smell and taste, which I doubt alone would help Aizen. Also Aizen doesn’t have any resistances to Illusions and Perception Manipulation.
 
Also Aizen doesn’t have any resistances to Illusions and Perception Manipulation.
The only genjutsu Madara uses in character is sharingan genjutsu given the fact Aizen's relying on Reikaku not sight this shouldn't be an issue
 
That’s TYBW Aizen, not base Aizen. The reason TYBW Aizen can do this is cuz he fused with his Zanpakuto.
Yes, I was wrong, I accept it.
It’s shown to affect sight, touch and hearing. So KS likely would only work against smell and taste, which I doubt alone would help Aizen. Also Aizen doesn’t have any resistances to Illusions and Perception Manipulation.
Aizen has resistance to illusion creation and perception manipulation. She solved Shinji's perception manipulation, escaped from its effects and resisted. And in soul physiology, high-level souls have resistance to illusion creation, and Aizen can cancel Madara's powers.
 
Yes, I was wrong, I accept it.

Aizen has resistance to illusion creation and perception manipulation. She solved Shinji's perception manipulation, escaped from its effects and resisted. And in soul physiology, high-level souls have resistance to illusion creation, and Aizen can cancel Madara's powers.
He didn’t resist the Illusion or Perception manipulation, he simply found out how the ability works, which is why it’s not listed as a resistance on Aizen’s profile, but an intelligence feat. I checked the Soul Physiology, aight, Aizen can resist Illusions, but that still leaves Perception Manipulation which he can’t resist
 
I believe Aizen wins this pretty conformably, even with the caveat of being unable to use The Hogyoku. I don't see Madara being the one who would initiate the illusory battle between the two as it isn't in character for him to do that given his desires to fight against strong opponents without trickery or deceit, while Aizen absolutely would in character do this because he does so in every encounter he has throughout the series, outside of Ichigo because of plot reasons.

So the debate would need to start off with discussing if Madara could break out of Kanzen Saimin or not. Personally, I don't think he can as Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't manipulate a system in a similar way that Genjutsu does. It manipulates the spiritual body of the person and controls their senses that way, which is different from how Genjutsu controls the perceptions of the opponent, which is through manipulating their optical nerves, Chakra pathways, and the likes. Because of this, I don't believe Madara could break out of it through using either his Sharingan or Rinnegan as it isn't similar enough with Genjutsu to allow that connection to be made. Subsequently, I also don't believe his resistances would be important here as it can't be equalized with Genjutsu, which is the ability that Madara is resistant to specifically.

Under the assumption that Aizen has used Kyoka Suigetsu against Madara and Madara is incapable of either resisting it initially or breaking out of it after he realizes what has occurred. I don't see how Madara would notice in enough time that he's under Kanzen Saimin and use an ability that could potentially circumvent this, such as Limbo, before Aizen appears around him and catches him off-guard, similar to how Hashirama did, and kills him.

Because of this, I don't feel the need to address Limbo Clones, TSO, or any other ability from Madara, as I don't see him having enough time to use anything effectively before Aizen just kills him outright.
 
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I believe Aizen wins this pretty conformably, even with the caveat of being unable to use The Hogyoku. I don't see Madara being the one who would initiate the illusory battle between the two as it isn't in character for him to do that given his desires to fight against strong opponents without trickery or deceit, while Aizen absolutely would in character do this because he does so in every encounter he has throughout the series, outside of Ichigo because of plot reasons.

So the debate would need to start off with discussing if Madara could break out of Kanzen Saimin or not. Personally, I don't think he can as Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't manipulate a system in a similar way that Genjutsu does. It manipulates the spiritual body of the person and controls their senses that way, which is different from how Genjutsu controls the perceptions of the opponent, which is through manipulating their optical nerves, Chakra pathways, and the likes. Because of this, I don't believe Madara could break out of it through using either his Sharingan or Rinnegan as it isn't similar enough with Genjutsu to allow that connection to be made. Subsequently, I also don't believe his resistances would be important here as it can't be equalized with Genjutsu, which is the ability that Madara is resistant to specifically.

Under the assumption that Aizen has used Kyoka Suigetsu against Madara and Madara is incapable of either resisting it initially or breaking out of it after he realizes what has occurred. I don't see how Madara would notice in enough time that he's under Kanzen Saimin and use an ability that could potentially circumvent this, such as Limbo, before Aizen appears around him and catches him off-guard, similar to how Hashirama did, and kills him.

Because of this, I don't feel the need to address Limbo Clones, TSO, or any other ability from Madara, as I don't see him having enough time to use anything effectively before Aizen just kills him outright.
Outside of Hado 90, I doubt Aizen has any offense that would put down Madara considering Madara has insane regeneration.
 
By neg low-godly, I do mean if he gets completely destroyed. Aizen has many options that can destroy Madara's entire body and thus his mind and soul.

Just pointing this out if anyone gets confused by Hollows having Low-Mid.
 
Outside of Hado 90, I doubt Aizen has any offense that would put down Madara considering Madara has insane regeneration.
Madara has Low-Mid regen, which is insanely average.

All Aizen needs to do is destroy his head, which he can do with his weakest Kido given his AP edge (Such as shooting a Byakurai laser beam through his temple).
 
Kurohitsugi also does him in as well, which he can set up with sealing such as Rikujokoro. Add on KS and Negacion and Aizen has multiple ways to put him down.
 
Any Bleach attack negs Low-Godly because it attacks the mind, body, and soul. Aizen also has multiple forms of sealing
Is that accepted in the wiki? Cuz if it’s not, then Madara simply resists mind and soul hax. Cuz by that logic, because Madara can survive hits from KCM Naruto, he can resist Low Godly regen negation since Naruto has Low Godly regen negation on his profile. Also Madara in this key doesn’t have Low-Godly, that’s for his Edo Tensei key, he only has Low-Mid just to clear that up.
 
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