Minato Namikaze vs Madara Uchiha

[MinatoSparkle]

Edo versions for both, and they both start in base, but can progress as the battle goes on. The battle takes place in a forest spanning hundreds of kilometers, and the distance between them is 10 meters. Minato knows Madara's reputation and that he possesses the Rinnegan, and Madara knows that Minato possesses FTG, though they don't know the full details.

Minato
AP: >>7 teratons, higher with Rasengan/Sage Mode, >>31.64 Petatons in Kurama Mode, <~157.42 Petatons with Kurama Avatar, 157.42 Petatons with Massive Rasengan, >157.42 Petatons with Bijūdama and Barrier Ninjutsu
Speed: >>>0.14c, >>1c with Shunshin/reaction speed/Sage Mode/Kurama Mode, far higher with Sage Mode/Kurama Mode Shunshin

Madara
AP: >>7 teratons, higher with Susano'o, 35 Teratons with Mokuton, 143.918 Teratons with Tengai Shinsei, ~/>4.435 Petatons with Full Body Humanoid Susano'o, >157.42 Petatons with Perfect Susano'o
Speed: >>0.14c, >>1c reaction speed/with Susanoo

The Yellow Flash: 1

The Ghost of the Uchiha: 7

Hashirama solos (inconclusive): 1

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

delete this thread while you have the chance

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Added stat values in the OP

 

[Snek]

It's been awhile since I've read Naruto so forgive me for asking but does Minato actually know of the Rinnegans abilities besides just the chakra receivers? Just wondering because the human path should be a major threat to base Minato with the soul steal as that should kill him edo or not while the preta path has the ability to strip off chakra cloaks or absorb rasengans (and that's an ability Madara uses in character as seen against the five kage) which should be immensely helpful against KCM2 Minato.

 

[LordTracer]

Sparkle, you end up posting this image in every thread you make. It’s basically your equivalent of Vegeta doing the thumb pose before getting his shit rocked.

At a certain point, you might need to sit back and re-evaluate your views.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's been awhile since I've read Naruto so forgive me for asking but does Minato actually know of the Rinnegans abilities besides just the chakra receivers?

The part of his chakra inside Naruto watching Naruto vs Pain knows, though idt that's part of Edo Minato

Just wondering because the human path should be a major threat to base Minato with the soul steal as that should kill him edo or not

That it could, although Minato can teleport away

while the preta path has the ability to strip off chakra cloaks or absorb rasengans (and that's an ability Madara uses in character as seen against the five kage) which should be immensely helpful against KCM2 Minato.

Indeed, although it would be difficult with teleporting + a significant speed advantage making it hard for him to tag Minato; absorbing Rasengan is fair game, though KCM Minato with just physicals can destroy Madara physically

Sparkle, you end up posting this image in every thread you make. It’s basically your equivalent of Vegeta doing the thumb pose before getting his shit rocked.

At a certain point, you might need to sit back and re-evaluate your views.

? This doesn't make much sense in context, it's not a CRT where I'm arguing for something specific. Might be a shocker, but I actually believe Madara wins this, though with extremely high difficulty.

 

[LordTracer]

? This doesn't make much sense in context, it's not a CRT where I'm arguing for something specific. Might be a shocker, but I actually believe Madara wins this, though with extremely high difficulty.

I ain’t talking about the thread although respectfully, I don’t believe for a second that you don’t think Minato wins, I’m memeing you constantly using that image

 

[Testarossa002]

Uhm....Genjutsu GG?
Yes, Minato isn't BoS Naruto, that's helpless against GJ, and he probably has a unique combat style like Guy suited to combating against red eye users.
BUT.....Madara is no slouch either. Everybody and their mother knows not to look the sharingan eye to eye. By everybody, I'm including the Uchiha. Yet, they consistently manage to put people in genjutsu. It's entirely feasible that Madara can fork out a scenario that allows him to land a genjutsu
That being said, while Minato is cooked if GJ lands (don't bring up that stuff about FTG negating the GJ link due to extradimensional movement), he can prevent himself from being caught by closing his eye and fighting purely with Kurama's danger sensing. There's no evidence that he can fight with his eyes closed and even if he could, his efficiency would lessen, which, against a comparable opponent, skill and power-wise, becomes fatal.
GJ+Human Path GG

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I ain’t talking about the thread although respectfully, I don’t believe for a second that you don’t think Minato wins,

I’m memeing you constantly using that image

I'm just confused about what you mean by re-evaluate my views

Uhm....Genjutsu GG?
Yes, Minato isn't BoS Naruto, that's helpless against GJ, and he probably has a unique combat style like Guy suited to combating against red eye users.
BUT.....Madara is no slouch either. Everybody and their mother knows not to look the sharingan eye to eye. By everybody, I'm including the Uchiha. Yet, they consistently manage to put people in genjutsu. It's entirely feasible that Madara can fork out a scenario that allows him to land a genjutsu
That being said, while Minato is cooked if GJ lands

(don't bring up that stuff about FTG negating the GJ link due to extradimensional movement),

It's highkey valid

he can prevent himself from being caught by closing his eye and fighting purely with Kurama's danger sensing. There's no evidence that he can fight with his eyes closed and even if he could, his efficiency would lessen, which, against a comparable opponent, skill and power-wise, becomes fatal.
GJ+Human Path GG

FTG negs soul rip pretty bad. We know ppl can still use jutsu when having their soul tugged as seen with Naruto vs Nagato and Naruto trying a Rasengan.

 

[Testarossa002]

I'm aware. Madara can just suppress Kurama too.
Sasuke has shown that Sharingan users can reach into the Bijuu-Jinchuriki subconscious and directly affect the bijuu
Obito has shown that it's possible to do that, as seen with Yagura
Madara has feats of GJ superiority against Full Kurama

It's highkey valid

and you wonder why Tracer doesn't like you

FTG negs soul rip pretty bad. We know ppl can still use jutsu when having their soul tugged as seen with Naruto vs Nagato.

Can't do that under Genjutsu
Madara FRA

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm aware. Madara can just suppress Kurama too.
Sasuke has shown that Sharingan users can reach into the Bijuu-Jinchuriki subconscious and directly affect the bijuu

1. This isn't particularly in character for Madara, he's never done or tried to do something like this, and he's fought Perfect Jinchuriki multiple times
2. Suppressing someone's chakra leaking out of a seal and suppressing an entire being are not the same

Obito has shown that it's possible to do that, as seen with Yagura

There's no evidence that Yagura was partners with Isobu, just that he could control his power

Madara has feats of GJ superiority against Full Kurama

Genjutsu =/= suppression

and you wonder why Tracer doesn't like you

I'm aware it's an "odd" argument but it does have merit

Can't do that under Genjutsu

Depending on the genjutsu actually, yeah, people can use mentally activated abilities.

Madara FRA

Counted (even though the supposed wincon doesn't really work)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

There's no evidence that Yagura was partners with Isobu, just that he could control his power

Wow, this is a new one. Do you actually believe this or are you just trying to make an argument? Cause I find this a tad strange.
Almost every Jinchuriki we've seen has displayed, or been stated to have, a degree of control over their Bijuu's power. The exceptions, of course, being Gyuki and Kurama's Jins. Gaara has displayed some limited control in P1 (even being able to go into a sort of Bijuu Mode at will), Yuugito has statements of being able to control Matatabi's powers in the DB and has likewise been able to transform at will. Han and Roshi have control over their Bijuu's Kekkei Genkai, and have even shown the ability to use chakra avatars and Bijuu Bombs. Fuu and Ukataka have the ability to use abilities derived from their Bijuu's powers as well.

All that is to say, it's very clear that having control over your Bijuu's power isn't exactly a rare phenomenon. In fact, it seems to be the norm, and that makes sense given that Jinchuriki are weapons meant to be wielded. If they all had no control over that power, then the whole Jinchuriki system would be a liability more than anything, which it's clearly not.
With that being said, you had Yagura being mentioned in the same vain as someone like Bee or Hashirama. People who have achieved absolutely perfect control. I think the implication is very clearly that he's a perfect Jin, not just that he can use Isobu's power freely, which most other Jin can do.

Genjutsu =/= suppression

Frankly, there's no reason to think Madara can't replicate this exact same feat right here. He probably taught it to Obito if anything, lol.

I'm aware it's an "odd" argument but it does have merit

It's actually extremely bad, and very easy to debunk, but I won't get into that here since it's irrelevant.

Btw, I'm not casting a vote nor am I saying Genjutsu GG is the win con here. I'm just replying to some points that caught my eye is all.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wow, this is a new one. Do you actually believe this or are you just trying to make an argument? Cause I find this a tad strange.

I do, although I had admittedly forgotten about Danzo's statement which lends some credence (even though it's still not really concrete)

Almost every Jinchuriki we've seen has displayed, or been stated to have, a degree of control over their Bijuu's power. The exceptions, of course, being Gyuki and Kurama's Jins. Gaara has displayed some limited control in P1 (even being able to go into a sort of Bijuu Mode at will), Yuugito has statements of being able to control Matatabi's powers in the DB and has likewise been able to transform at will. Han and Roshi have control over their Bijuu's Kekkei Genkai, and have even shown the ability to use chakra avatars and Bijuu Bombs. Fuu and Ukataka have the ability to use abilities derived from their Bijuu's powers as well.

All that is to say, it's very clear that having control over your Bijuu's power isn't exactly a rare phenomenon. In fact, it seems to be the norm, and that makes sense given that Jinchuriki are weapons meant to be wielded. If they all had no control over that power, then the whole Jinchuriki system would be a liability more than anything, which it's clearly not.
With that being said, you had Yagura being mentioned in the same vain as someone like Bee or Hashirama. People who have achieved absolutely perfect control. I think the implication is very clearly that he's a perfect Jin, not just that he can use Isobu's power freely, which most other Jin can do.

I think the reason he's treated as an exception might just be because he can use Isobu's power better than any other jinchuriki (besides Bee). It's definitely not like friendliness is a requirement, given Hashirama and Madara; Hashirama can't even have the Bijuu fight for him as far as we know, he can just completely suppress them. And it'd be sort of odd for Danzo to be privy to that sort of knowledge (friendly relations or lack thereof between Bijuu/Jinchuriki) anyways, not to mention that Isobu didn't seem to care much for Kirigakure being left in a state of disarray after he revived, just living freely. I definitely don't see Gyuki leaving Kumo or Kurama leaving Konoha to their own devices after being reborn outside of a jinchuriki.

Then this is the cherry on top.

Frankly, there's no reason to think Madara can't replicate this exact same feat right here. He probably taught it to Obito if anything, lol.

1. I probably should've talked about this before, but this is a pretty blatant genjutsu (unlike some genjutsu that are casted subtly or without direct eye contact), and would be pretty easy to dodge by Minato simply averting his eyes the moment Madara tried it
2. This might be part of the Tail Releasing Method; Obito being able to peer that deep into the seal cause of the seal being weakened ts
3. Minato could break Kurama out of the genjutsu
4. I think Kurama would be more alert in this situation, knowing that he's facing someone who's put him under genjutsu before, and not just staring at him in surprise

It's actually extremely bad, and very easy to debunk, but I won't get into that here since it's irrelevant.

Btw, I'm not casting a vote nor am I saying Genjutsu GG is the win con here. I'm just replying to some points that caught my eye is all.

Understandable

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I gotta say, genjutsu shenanigans weren't what I was expecting to talk about when I made this thread Where's the dramatics, FTG vs Mokuton, Kurama and Susanoo clashes

 

[Arkenis]

I could be a minatard and argue, but yeah Madara should be able to catch him in a genjutsu at some point and go for a kill even if Kurama can break him out, we saw it takes Gyuki some time to do it with Bee immediately getting knocked out by it, even if Minato can wake up fast like Bee, that'll still just lead Madara to extract Kurama or decide to use his susanoo and win that way.

This is both edo as well, Madara knows the jutsu and can just cancel it on Minato

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I could be a minatard and argue, but yeah Madara should be able to catch him in a genjutsu at some point and go for a kill even if Kurama can break him out, we saw it takes Gyuki some time to do it with Bee immediately getting knocked out by it, even if Minato can wake up fast like Bee, that'll still just lead Madara to extract Kurama or decide to use his susanoo and win that way.

It can be done mid attack against a comparable opponent. And Obito could only extract Kurama from Kushina because her seal was weakened due to childbirth. Susanoo is fine, but it takes a while to form the Perfect Susanoo, which he'll need to land a fatal blow against KCM Minato (KCM Minato's basic durability is 31.64 Petatons, while Madara's strongest attack besides the PS downscales from 31.64 petatons), in which time Kurama will break him out and he'll summon the Kurama Avatar in response.

This is both edo as well, Madara knows the jutsu and can just cancel it on Minato

That's not really how it works. He can stop himself from being returned to the pure land, but that's not the same as making someone else go to the pure land.

 

[Foriaa]

Why would Minato at all look into Madara's eyes?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Good point, especially since Minato will be zooming around at a speed far above Madara's (even Base Minato's Shunshin is FTL; KCM Minato's is unquantifiably, but massively above that)

 

[Arkenis]

It can be done mid attack against a comparable opponent. And Obito could only extract Kurama from Kushina because her seal was weakened due to childbirth. Susanoo is fine, but it takes a while to form the Perfect Susanoo, which he'll need to land a fatal blow against KCM Minato (KCM Minato's basic durability is 31.64 Petatons, while Madara's strongest attack besides the PS downscales from 31.64 petatons), in which time Kurama will break him out and he'll summon the Kurama Avatar in response.

What's a fatal blow here anyway? They're both in edo, how do they get past that.

Why would Minato at all look into Madara's eyes?

5 different clones gonna be hard to avert their eyes and Raikage knew this and still got caught, hell most people know this and get caught.

 

[Foriaa]

5 different clones gonna be hard to avert their eyes and Raikage knew this and still got caught, hell most people know this and get caught.

Not for the goat Minato

 

[MinatoSparkle]

What's a fatal blow here anyway? They're both in edo, how do they get past that.

Minato has sealing jutsu and Madara has soul rip. If they land a blow that puts the other out of commission for a while, it'll be easier for them to pull off their wincons

5 different clones gonna be hard to avert their eyes and Raikage knew this and still got caught, hell most people know this and get caught.

Minato can make clones as well, and besides, KCM2 Minato's reaction speed is light years ahead of Ay's.

(a clone army, even with Humanoid Susanoos, is also fodder for a single Bijuudama if I'm being fr)

 

[Foriaa]

Minato seals this MS Kakashi victim, voting him

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kakashi victim is wild (unless you mean DMS, who also negs Minato), but counted.

 

[Foriaa]

I'm most def talking about 1 MS

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara bodies 1 MS Kakashi, but alr then

 

[Arkenis]

Minato can make clones as well, and besides, KCM2 Minato's reaction speed is light years ahead of Ay's.

(a clone army, even with Humanoid Susanoos, is also fodder for a single Bijuudama if I'm being fr)

Sit here right now and send a panel of Minato using clones, this do not count.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sit here right now and send a panel of Minato using clones, this do not count.

 

[Arkenis]

This is colored version, where's the raw BW?

 

[Foriaa]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is colored version, where's the raw BW?

Confusion, but ok

 

[Arkenis]

Confusion, but ok

I suppose this is fine, for now.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

So far, it looks like Madara takes this, so I'm voting him, for now.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If you're looking for Minato's advantages, they're speed (by a considerable margin), teleportation, an AP advantage over anything Madara has besides PS, and better BIQ

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If Minato manages to put a mark on Madara would he be able to just yoink him out of the Susano'o or would the Susano'o just teleport with him like when Sasuke uses his Rinnegan to teleport with the Susano'o alongside him?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If Minato manages to put a mark on Madara would he be able to just yoink him out of the Susano'o or would the Susano'o just teleport with him like when Sasuke uses his Rinnegan to teleport with the Susano'o alongside him?

It's a bit hard to tell since the Susanoo's chakra is an extension of Madara, but we do know he can be separated physically. At the very least, Minato should be able to teleport inside the Susanoo next to Madara.

 

[Excellence616]

Madara fra

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Beyond the fact that genjutsu wouldn't actually work, it really should be taken into account that Madara's not a genjutsu fighter. He's never used genjutsu in serious combat once (using it against a fodder and after playing with the Kage for hours doesn't count). Against Hashirama, even when looking him straight in the eyes, he never tried it. And neither did he try it against Naruto, in his KCM2 or SPSM state. No way would Madara waste his best opponent since Hashirama just ending it with a stare.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Genjutsu isn't even needed, madaras bag is way deeper and has much more win cons. At most minatos extends the fight and is annoying because he's hard to tag but like, rasengans get nulled by preta path, deep forest emergence+fire style can put minato to sleep if he's too close, the rinnegan rods can also paralyze minato if they land

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Genjutsu isn't even needed,

I agree

madaras bag is way deeper and has much more win cons. At most minatos extends the fight and is annoying because he's hard to tag but like, rasengans get nulled by preta path,

Yup

deep forest emergence+fire style can put minato to sleep if he's too close,

FTG/KA kinda negs this

the rinnegan rods can also paralyze minato if they land

Wouldn't with the 7x speed difference, but hypothetically sure