All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[RedReaper616]

But is there proof of this?

Yes. We see it. ON SCREEN. Trunks goes to the past. He kills Frieza, leaves, come back and gets Android Blueprints, leaves again, and then when he prepares to come back to celebrate gets killed by Cell. Cell says, and we see, and it is stated, that he went to THE EXACT SAME TIMELINE, JUST EARLIER. He then awaits four years. In that time, Trunks appears, kills Frieza, and leaves. As in, Cell returned to an earlier point in history to the timeline Trunks caused to Branch. It is a very intuitive and very clear series of events. There's no confusion. This is just exactly as it transpired. As I described it. Any deviation from this is speculation.

 

[Vizer04]

Sorry to tell you Ruffy, but Zamasu only literally loves himself

Hardly tho

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But is there proof of this?

Let's see the guides say so and he's there in the show soooooo.....

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Let's see the guides say so and he's there in the show soooooo.....

Why so much fuss about the timelines? Lol

 

[Vizer04]

Let's see the guides say so and he's there in the show soooooo.....

He can be in the Main Timeline just like he does in the show. My theory already has Cell be in the Main Timeline, becoming perfect and it requires less mental gymnastics like "significant changes" and "Trunks being magically duplicated somehow"

4th Timeline (Main One): This is where Trunks² went in his trip to the past. Cell¹ was already buried underground in the 3rd Timeline (the one where this timeline branches off) so he was duplicated the moment Trunks² arrived here, creating Cell⁴. Piccolo wasn't killed in this timeline so he would fuse with Kami to become stronger. This new "Kamiccolo" would be a major obstacle for Cell⁴, who would resort to absorb humans in Gingertown to become stronger than him. Krillin would kill Cell⁵, who was incubating in Gero's lab. Cell⁴ would absorb A17 and A18, becoming perfect. Gohan would kill Cell⁴ and Trunks² would return to his time with knowledge of Cell.

 

[Vizer04]

Why so much fuss about the timelines? Lol

Not really fuss, i just tried to give another explanation than the commonly accepted one and we had some disagreements.

 

[RedReaper616]

He can be in the Main Timeline just like he does in the show. My theory already has Cell be in the Main Timeline, becoming perfect and it requires less mental gymnastics like "significant changes"

This is Super. This is not mental gymnastics. This is exactly as it is framed in Super.

and Trunks being magically duplicated somehow.

Your solution is Trunks magically duplicating Cell and ignoring what actually happens. Hence the point of this whole discussion. Because your initial premise of this 4 Timeline Breakdown is "minimizing plot holes and paradoxes." And you're doing this...by creating additional plot holes and ignoring the actual events as they transpired. Hence why I pointed out a given explanation has to work around the facts, since your explanation ignores them.

 

[Vizer04]

This is Super. This is not mental gymnastics. This is exactly as it is framed in Super.

That was merely implied, with a lot of external factors no less.

Your solution is Trunks magically duplicating Cell and ignoring what actually happens.

Huh? Cell being duplicated doesn't come out of nowhere, he was already buried underground previous to the point Trunks choose to travel to, so he was duplicated. On the other hand, it makes no sense for Cell to create a new timeline and THEN a random Trunks appears out of nowhere with no context.

And you're doing this...by creating additional plot holes and ignoring the actual events as they transpired.

To be fair we don't know a whole lot of what transpired in the other timelines. Much of that is left to interpretation.

 

[RedReaper616]

That was merely implied, with a lot of external factors no less.

Super Anime Diagram.
Super Manga Diagram.
Jaco's Comment in the Manga.
Whis' testimony in the Anime AND Manga.
It's not "merely" implied. It's given a LOT of coverage.

Huh? Cell being duplicated doesn't come out of nowhere, he was already buried underground previous to the point Trunks choose to travel to, so he was duplicated. On the other hand, it makes no sense for Cell to create a new timeline and THEN a random Trunks appears out of nowhere with no context.

Except, again, your idea is that Cell duplicates the Timeline. Meaning Trunks would not travel to a pre-existing Timeline, he would travel to his own unique Timeline he creates when he branches it. Because Cell only exists in a Timeline he would branch, and Trunks would only exist in a Timeline he would branch. They can only co-exist if they're both jumping to the same Timeline, which you are starkly against. Because if you WEREN'T, you WOULDN'T HAVE AN ISSUE with Cell traveling to a timeline TRUNKS Branched.

To be fair we don't know a whole lot of what transpired in the other timelines. Much of that is left to interpretation.

But we do know what happened with the characters that we see and have explained to us directly. Which is what I'm citing, specifically. Character dialogue, the guide, the events that transpire on page/screen, etc. Again, a lot of your argument comes down to "But that just doesn't make sense," even as I reference direct evidence, like the various Diagrams.

 

[Vizer04]

Super Anime Diagram.
Super Manga Diagram.
Jaco's Comment in the Manga.
Whis' testimony in the Anime AND Manga.
It's not "merely" implied. It's given a LOT of coverage.

Fair enough.

They can only co-exist if they're both jumping to the same Timeline, which you are starkly against.

Why is that the only possible option. What are the odds of a completely different Trunks jumping to the exact same timeline as Cell? Surely they have to be infinitesimal... actually, they would be 0% because if Trunks is truly a copy of OG Trunks as you say then he would've set the coordinates for the Unseen Timeline, just like OG Trunks did.

 

[Vizer04]

Whis explains a similar concept when he's under the impression that Time Travel works on BTTF rules. "Step on the wrong bug you end a planet." In this case, you can travel back in time and not cause issue unless you step on that bug.

The point of that analogy is that no significant change has to be made in order to create a new timeline. Merely "stepping on the wrong bug" can cause changes in history thanks to the butterfly effect.

Someone coming from the future into the past would create absolutely massive changes in history, even if they came, did nothing and left. New atoms are added in the universe by their mere presence which wasn't supposed to happen. Like it or not, that is going to create butterfly effect down the line. It might take years to become something significant, but it will happen eventually. Look up the infinite monkey theorem.

 

[RedReaper616]

Why is that the only possible option. What are the odds of a completely different Trunks jumping to the exact same timeline as Cell? Surely they have to be infinitesimal... actually, they would be 0% because if Trunks is a copy of OG Trunks then he would've set the coordinates for the Unseen Timeline, just like OG Trunks did.

Which he DID, if you go by the actual Daizenshuu. Which states he appearaed there and events went off without Trunks. And, again, it's not a "random new Trunks." It's simply him appearing earlier in the same Timeline Trunks went to. (Meaning it is THAT Trunks, whose personal history is then altered because he meets Cell). You can see this pretty clearly.

The fat bracket is a timeline break, and the arrows are Time Travel. The BREAK happens when Trunks first appears (purple) in the past from his Original Timeline. He then returns to his Timeline (History 3), and returns to his previous Time. There he is killed, and has his Time Machine Stolen. Then Cell travels earlier in the Timeline Trunks travels to (in this case, History 4). Meanwhile, Trunks appears and kills Frieza when he wasn't supposed to, like he does in History 4. This causes a Timeline split (History 2), which allows Trunks to return there and back (creating the new Timeline in which Cell follows Trunks back to) instead of History 4, which then allows Cell and Trunks to meet (in History 1, Our History), changing Trunks' fate, allowing him to return home and kill Cell before Cell can kill and steal his Time Machine, like what happened originally.

EDIT: Actually, I'm pretty sure the History 2 Timeline Split occurred because of Trunks finding Cell's Time Machine. Regardless, an additional one is made which allows them to co-exist.

 

[RedReaper616]

The point of that analogy is that no significant change has to be made in order to create a new timeline. Merely "stepping on the wrong bug" can cause changes in history thanks to the butterfly effect.

Someone coming from the future into the past would create absolutely massive changes in history, even if they came, did nothing and left. New atoms are added in the universe by their mere presence which wasn't supposed to happen. Like it or not, that is going to create butterfly effect down the line. It might take years to become something significant, but it will happen eventually. Look up the infinite monkey theorem.

Yes, except we now know based on the events of the Future Trunks Saga Time is more pliable, and that BTTF rules only work for deities (in the Anime). So instead of stepping on bugs, the actual effect is caused by events more like killing a really important Time Traveller whose personal Timeline spans three Timelines and is in itself disconnected from all Timelines due to being Acausal.

 

[RedReaper616]

This is correct. Once Trunks went into the past, Cell was already there due to going to a time period earlier within that same Branch. Yes, there are two Trunks, because the initial one we see dies due to Cell, and the events play out as we see on screen. The only confusion would be how they both return to the exact same timeline and create the Unseen Timeline.

(I think you deleted your message, but replying anyway.) I point this out myself. The only confusion should be how they do both, but also, again, the answer we're given is that the events that happen create an additional Timeline Split, allowing Trunks to change his fate instead of going home and getting killed by Cell. Outside of that, we have no other information about the Unseen Timeline.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

That Goku vs Saitama thread is a perfect showcase of G.D.S (Goku Derangement Syndrome)

People want the clout of beating Goku so bad they create an oddly specific matchup, either restrict abilities, or equalize speed, or argue some bullshit about in character.

Like Goku wouldn't go SSJ and one shot, but he would just use to Spirit Bomb off the bat for some reason.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

They're more arguing that the Spirit Bomb as like a last resort move could net Goku the win, from what I gathered.

 

[Fezzih_007]

They're more arguing that the Spirit Bomb as like a last resort move could net Goku the win from what I gathered.

I the only person arguing that trought.

but he would just use to Spirit Bomb off the bat for some reason

I din't say he gonna use right off the bat.

 

[Vizer04]

Cell travels earlier in the Timeline Trunks travels to

Cell can't go earlier into that timeline because he intended to change things and we know that he can't change what would unfold there naturally since it's already done (Trunks obtaining the blueprints)

This causes a Timeline split (History 2), which allows Trunks to return there and back (creating the new Timeline in which Cell follows Trunks back to) instead of History 4, which then allows Cell and Trunks to meet (in History 1, Our History), changing Trunks' fate, allowing him to return home and kill Cell before Cell can kill and steal his Time Machine, like what happened originally.

Then Trunks would be traveling to the Original Timeline with new knowledge after having met Cell, at which point another timeline splits off, one where he dies by Cell and another where the opposite happens. The only problem with this is that another Trunks would be living there already, the OG Trunks. The OG Trunks would also be returning home after his trip and both Trunks would meet. By that logic, Trunks would've come back to the future after the Cell Games only to find another Trunks living there. Is that what happened? No.

 

[Vizer04]

Also, Beerus creating a timeline only happened in the anime, and we know Toei likes to add things they think are cool but only create inconsistencies like Black going to the past and creating a bootstrap paradox just because Toei wanted Goku and Black to have a cool fight and so they could being back Cell's time machine even if it didn't make sense.

In the manga, Zamasu only finds out about Goku because of GodTube, not because Beerus and Whis go to investigaste him.

 

[RedReaper616]

Cell can't go earlier into that timeline because he intended to change things and we know that he can't change what would unfold there naturally since it's already done (Trunks obtaining the blueprints)


Then Trunks would be traveling to the Original Timeline with new knowledge after having met Cell, at which point another timeline splits off, one where he dies by Cell and another where the opposite happens.

YES. EXACTLY. THIS IS LITERALLY NOTED ON THE GRAPH. LOOK AT THE TIMELINE BREAK FOR HISTORY 2 AND 3.

The only problem with this is that another Trunks would be living there already, the OG Trunks. The OG Trunks would also be returning home after his trip and both Trunks would meet. By that logic, Trunks would've come back to the future after the Cell Games only to find another Trunks living there. Is that what happened? No.

???
The break happens after that moment, so…no? Again, refer to the actual Diagram.

 

[RedReaper616]

Also, Beerus creating a timeline only happened in the anime—

No. Wrong. It also happens in the Manga, spawning a Time Ring in the box (This occurs during Time Travel trip one, in the midst of SSJ Black V Vegeta), which in itself I’ve already given you proof of through the DBS Manga Diagram displaying this earlier.

 

[Vizer04]

???
The break happens after that moment, so…no? Again, refer to the actual Diagram.

Both Trunks come back in Age 765 and the break you're referring to happens in Age 788.

 

[Vizer04]

Also, why did Trunks wait years for Cell to ambush him? He already knew the location of Gero's lab, why didn't he just go there and blow shit up?

 

[RedReaper616]

Then Trunks would be traveling to the Original Timeline with new knowledge after having met Cell, at which point another timeline splits off, one where he dies by Cell and another where the opposite happens.

That break would happen when he reappears…in his timeline…like you mentioned…and the Diagram shows…so Age 785. (788 is when Cell steals the Time Machine, beneath 785).

 

[Vizer04]

That break would happen when he reappears…in his timeline…like you mentioned…and the Diagram shows…so Age 785. (788 is when Cell steals the Time Machine, beneath 785).

Why? What significant change would he be making by doing that?

Trunks acquires knowledge while he's in the past and then he returns to the future... sounds about the same of what happened in the OG Timeline.

 

[RedReaper616]

Also, why did Trunks wait years for Cell to ambush him? He already knew the location of Gero's lab, why didn't he just go there and blow shit up?

Cell appeared and was confused/angry at not having the Androids. Given it takes 4 years for Cell to actually develop from his egg and it took decades to finish Cell, presumably, he just wouldn’t be in the lab. He’d be gestating underground. Also, Trunks knew Cell would come to him, and that Cell could cloak his energy and be a general pests, so it tracking him would be incredibly difficult and tip Cell off that they knew of him. (Toriyama probably didn’t think of it.)

 

[RedReaper616]

Why? What significant change would he be making by doing that?

NOT dying. Like he was…y’know…he was supposed to.

 

[Vizer04]

NOT dying. Like he was…y’know…he was supposed to.

That happened years after returning to the future, something both Trunks did.

Both Trunks returned succesfully to the future, only to meet Cell years later. The outcome of that meeting is the point where they split.

 

[RedReaper616]

Reading the graph, the indication of break is when Trunks kills the Androids. In one timeline his just remote, the other his own ability.

 

[Nierre]

is the Nameless Namekian's backstory canon to the manga (does it even exist in the manga), or is that an anime only backstory

 

[Vizer04]

is the Nameless Namekian's backstory canon to the manga (does it even exist in the manga), or is that an anime only backstory

All we know about him is that his father Katas sent him to Earth and he landed on the Yunzabit Heights, where he waited several years for his father's return. He would then go on to meet the previous Kami and Garlic's father (anime only)

 

[Vizer04]

Whis doesn't actually rewind time, he just has an extreme variant of Ultra Instinct that allows him to anticipate events even further than Goku, events that haven't even happened yet.

 

[Vizer04]

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Frieza's race and the lack of organs

Greetings. I have noticed something which is pretty odd about Frieza himself, and the following revision will affect also his race in general. The following thread will try to introduce the fact that Frieza's race is consistently showcased as without organs in all the medias, with their...

vsbattles.com

3 f#cking pages discussing Frieza's organs

Peak powerscaling

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

 

[Hasty12345]

Cute

 

[BlastX]

LO SABÍA! VEGETA ME METIO EN UN ICEBERG PARA HACERME VER COMO UN MEME Y ASÍ NADIE SE TOMARA EN SERIO SU TRAICIÓN. NO TE LO PERMITIRE VEGETA.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

LO SABÍA! VEGETA ME METIO EN UN ICEBERG PARA HACERME VER COMO UN MEME Y ASÍ NADIE SE TOMARA EN SERIO SU TRAICIÓN. NO TE LO PERMITIRE VEGETA.

While funny ten shin han meme is funny, reminder you can only speak english on the forums

The VS Battle Wiki is an English-language platform, and all users are required to communicate in English.
This policy applies to all members of this wiki and our forum, including within discussion threads, as well as any other areas of this platform where communication occurs

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

While funny ten shin han meme is funny, reminder you can only speak english on the forums

Lephy, your Discord is frickin dead ....

 

[Vizer04]

LO SABÍA! VEGETA ME METIO EN UN ICEBERG PARA HACERME VER COMO UN MEME Y ASÍ NADIE SE TOMARA EN SERIO SU TRAICIÓN. NO TE LO PERMITIRE VEGETA.