Invincible CRT Vol 2. P&As Are Important

[Tahoy49574]

Second part of the Invincible CRTs, this time revising the Powers and Abilities of various characters

I'll prephase this saying holy crap, some of these are bad

Main offender is Atom Eve's profile, which for some reason doesn't even address her Mental-block-free state and I don't know why that's gone unchanged for so long. Besides that it's also missing a whole bunch of stuff, as are a other profiles, so I'll be adding those as well and be specific with the wording as I've seen people bring up some characters' telepathy as a wincon as if they've ever used it for anything other than talking. Also, I'll be removing some to avoid redundancy or that are just straight up wrong

1. Powers and Abilities

Atom Eve

Base

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Skilled Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Has been operating as a superhero ever since she was a teenager)
• Limited Energy Manipulation, Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic), and Transmutation (She can manipulate the submicroscopic structures of atoms, create new atoms from their components, and rearrange the atomic and molecular structures of all matter through a psionic-manipulative energy field. However, mental blocks where implanted onto her to give her a subconscious refusal to alter living animal mass)
  • Durability Negation
  • Forcefield Creation (Capable of creating energy barriers and shields, as well as forcefields of various sizes)
  • Platform Creation and Flight (Can create platforms and propel them to fly to transport herself and others)
  • Attack Reflection (Reflected Killcannon's energy bullets by giving her constructs rubbery properties)
  • Density Manipulation (Capable of altering the density of matter)
  • Weapon Creation (Created spikes, swords, punching gloves and lances)
  • Cloth Manipulation (Capable of creating and trasmuting clothing. She can cover herself with constructs and create armors)
  • Adhesive Manipulation (Glued Killcannon's boots to the floor)
  • Plant Manipulation (Grew bountiful vegetation in an arid zone. Can create flowers)
  • Heat Manipulation (Capable of controlling the heat of objects she transmutes)
  • Acid Manipulation (Can make acidic substances even more acidy)
  • Metal Manipulation (Capable of bending and crushing metals)
  • Earth Manipulation and Underground Mobility (Capable of moving through the ground by manipulating it or drilling through with her constructs)
  • Technology Manipulation (Erased video footage of her off a government facility)
  • Limited Light Manipulation (The usage of her powers emmits a pink light)
  • Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Can operate in space by shielding herself with constructs)

Overriden mental blocks

All previous abilities to a greater extent, stated to be "omnipotent" in this state, plus:

• Life Manipulation and Biological Manipulation (While her mental blocks are overriden, Atom Eve can freely alter living animal mass. Turned a gun into a group of snakes)
  • Healing and Regeneration (At least Low-Mid; Quickly healed herself and Invincible after being bisected) Let's be real, she should be able to create an entire human body out of thin air in this state
  • Statistics Amplification (Gave herself and Invincible a boost in power, the later becoming strong enough to have a prolonged fight with Thragg)
  • Shapeshifting (Modified her body and made her breasts slightly bigger)
  • Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation (Biochemical; Can create entirely new personalities and erase memories by rearranging brain cells)
  • Age Manipulation and Immortality (Type 1 & 3; Her powers can rejuvenate her, preventing her from dying of old age)
• Enhanced Senses (Can see, touch and taste the tiniest pieces of matter in this state)

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

NaHCO₃: Using her powers, Atom Eve can generate sodium bicarbonite to smother fires

* Remove Telepathy, Telekinesis and Empowerment
** Also, change the Matter Manipulation page to put Eve on the Subatomic group

Tech Jacket

Base

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Shapeshifting(Tech Jackets can be attached to the user at birth and grow and mature alongside them)
  • Weapon Creation and Energy Projection (Zack can morph the Tech Jacket to create a variety of weapons such as an enlarged fist, elbow rocket, energy and metal blades, gauntlets, a drill and a chainsaw, and laser cannons)
    • Danmaku(Unidirectional & Multidirectional; Zack can form multiple cannons out of the Tech Jacket's arms and shoulders for sustained firepower, as well as thoroughly cover it with them to shoot in multiple directions at once)
  • Bodily Weaponry(Capable of spawning multiple tendrils from under his armor)
  • Limited Resistance to Information Analysis via Dome Mode
• Forcefield Creation (Seen here)
• Flight (Tech Jacket can fly by deploying the thrusters on his back and feet)
• Martial Arts (Zack's Tech Jacket is a warrior's, giving him natural combat skills. He spent over a month at a geldarian boot camp to use his Jacket more effectively)
• Marksmanship (Tech Jacket possesses sensors and targetting mechanisms so accurate he can hit multiple small targets while under constant fire)
• Acrobatics (Hypermobility; Capable of jumping over great distances. Dodged multiple shots from a laser grid)
• Regeneration (Low; The Tech Jacket's repair systems can quickly fix structural damage)
• Immortality (Type 2; The Tech Jacket's failsafes prioritize a balanced distribution of energy across all it's systems to ensure the safety and survival of it's user, keeping Zack alive after most of his armor was torn apart and being impaled through the chest, though these can be overriden by him)
• Non-Standard Breathing (Type 3; Zack breathes through the Jacket's oxygen system)
• Electricity Manipulation(Capable of powering technological devices and attacking with a electrical discharge)
  • Absorption (Can recharge itself by absorbing electrical attacks)
• Self-Destruction via System Overload
• Information Analysis (The Tech Jacket can run diagnostics on it's status and warm Zack about immediate dangers, give him an analysis of the surrounding area, and guide him through the insides of an enemy)
• Biological Manipulation (Genetic level; The Tech Jacket routinely removes and destroys accumulated germs and bacteria off the user's body)
• Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)

Resistance to:

• Heat (Tech Jackets can withstand atmospheric re-entry with no issue)
• Radiation Manipulation (Can consistently travel through space without any ill effects)

Post-Colossal Amp

All previous abilities to a greater extent, plus:

• Instinctive Action (The armor can defend Zack while he's unconscious)

Standard Equipment: Geldarian physical assistance engine "Tech Jacket", C.O.P earpiece

Notable Attack/Techniques:

• System Overload: Zack can reroute the energy from all the Tech Jacket's systems to the battery to overload the system and release a powerful explosion

• Dome Mode: Zack can morph his Tech Jacket into a dome completely cut off from the exterior, going unnoticed from life-sensing scanners

• Surgery: After figuring out Akileos' disease-like nature, he deployed surgical tools and extracted him off the Colossal's immune system

*Remove Enhanced Senses, Technology Manipulation and Low-Mid Regeneration as the wound was more than likely healed by the Colossal's Biological Manipulation
**Remove the "Flew to another solar system." justification as the stronghold was actually in a neighboring planet


Null

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Space Survival(Survived being stranded in the sun for over a year)
• Skilled Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Has been killing for profit for years)
• Acrobatics (All-Terrain Mobility & Surface Running; Planned to run up the Colossal's constructs to escape the sun)
• Bodily Weaponry (Conventional & Unconventional; Sharp mandibles and elbow blades)
• Information Analysis via Gauntlet(Can scan his surroundings to detect objects)
• Flight (Levitation; Hovered over a town)

Resistance to:

• Extreme Heat(Endured the temperatures of the sun unscathed)
• Biological Manipulation and Corruption (Type 1; Broke free from the Colossal's assimilation)

Clarification on the Colossal

One of the Colossal's abilities is assimilating lifeforms and changing them as it sees fit

We see this with Zack and the Tech Jacket, which the Colossal complete modifies and even amplificates it's statistics, and the legions of soldiers it has at it's disposal

However, Null manages to break free, and his design is unchanged from his first appearances, meaning he resisted it's effects


Standard Equipment: Gauntlet

*Remove Regeneration, Summoning and Weapon Mastery when has he ever done any of these

Battle Beast

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Enhanced Senses
  • Vision: His vision is superior at night in comparison to humans, allowing him to see clearly in near total darkness. His visual acuity in normal light allows him to see at 80 feet what most humans can see at 10 feet.
  • Hearing: His hearing is so sensitive that he can clearly hear changes in acoustic pressure of -10 deciBels. Battle Beast can detect the tiniest variances in sound, distinguishing differences of as little as one-tenth of a tone. He can hear sounds at great distances, four to five times farther away than humans.
  • Smell: His sense of smell is about 14 times stronger than a human's.
  • Whiskers: Battle Beast's whiskers can aid with navigation and sensation. His whiskers detect very small shifts in air currents enabling him to know he is near obstructions without actually seeing them.
• Space Survival (Can survive in space for long periods of time)
• Bodily Weaponry (Conventional; Sharp teeth and claws)
• Martial Arts and Weapon Mastery (Battle beast is a superbly trained warrior and highly skilled hunter, whose abilities have been honed to "the peak of perfection". He has attained nearly unparalleled proficiency in the use of all known hand wielded weapons and combat apparatus, having mastered all known fighting systems as well as his own unique hand to hand and armed combat styles)
• Portal Creation (Likely through technological means, Battle Beast can create a portal to his spaceship within range)
• Flight via jetpack (Seen here)
• Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)

Resistance to:

• Heat (Withstood atmospheric re-entry unscathed)

Standard Equipment: C.O.P earpiece
Optional Equipment: Jetpack

Notable Attack/Techniques:

• Bite

* Remove High Pain Tolerance and Resistance to Extreme Cold
** Also, remove the "to even the odds in battle if it is in his favor" bit of the Weakness section. He's used advantages such as a jetpack and weapons to even the playing field, he only handicapped himself in the Thragg fight because circumstances out of his control made it unfair

Viltrumites

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• True Flight
• Martial Arts (Viltrumite culture is imperialistic and driven by a doctrine where only the strong should survive. All world-conquering viltrumites would be put through auditions to test their skills and later on train with veterans to better their fighting style)
• Longevity (The older viltrumites get the slower they age, allowing them to live for thousands of years)
• Regeneration (High-Low, Low-Mid over time) and Immortality(Type 2 & 3; As long as the brain and heart remain mostly intact the viltrumite body will repair itself, healing from severe head trauma and bone and organ damage. Their physiology allows them to recover from physical damage at an extremely accelerated rate, enabling them in fights with injuries as severe as their guts spilling out, skin incinerated or brain exposed)
• Adaptation(Viltrumite DNA aggressively self-repairs and adapts to maintain it's structure, ensuring it's own survival when combined with DNA from another species by gradually replacing it, and their individual molecules will perform their functions in extreme conditions)
  • Resistance to Temperature Manipulation(Viltrumite atoms' ability to exchange energy with the background changes their temperature where needed, allowing normal bodily functions to continue even when the outside temperature is near absolute zero or as hot as the surface of a star. In short bursts, they can withstand temperatures even hotter than the sun)
  • Resistance to Gravity Manipulation(Viltrumites' atoms can be forced to maintain their relative positions in the air, as well as ensure the molecules behave normally even under extreme forces, allowing them to operate in planets with a severe gravitational quotient without issue)
• Enhanced Lung Capacity (Viltrumites can hold their breath for 2 weeks)
• Telepathy via thought receiver(Alien technology allows him/her to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space)

Resistance to:

• Radiation Manipulation (Can consistently travel through space without any ill effects)

Standard Equipment: Thought receiver

*Remove Reactive Evolution and Resistance to Absolute Zero and High Heat

These next are Viltrumites to whom the above changes apply, but have certain nuances of their own

Thaedus

Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)
Social Influencing (Reputation & Leadership; Leader of the High Council of the Coalition of Planets, with multiple civilizations looking up to him for guidance and reassurance during times of war. He organized the war operations and led the final charge against Viltrum)

Standard Equipment: C.O.P earpiece

*Remove Genius Intelligence and just downgrade his intelligence to Gifted, as the Scourge Virus wasn't developed by him

Invincible

Martial Arts (Earth is characterized for being a volatile environment, which led Invincible to fight multiple supervillains and monsters, honing his fighting skills and exerting his body, which allowed him to stand his ground against veteran viltrumites)
BFR (Can fly and punch opponents to space)
Shockwave Generation (Can create shockwaves with thunderclaps)
Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)

Standard Equipment: C.O.P earpiece

Oliver Grayson

Martial Arts (Trained for months with Omni-Man to fight viltrumite forces)
Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)
Accelerated Development (Training; Intelligence and Abilities - Due to his part-Thraxan physiology, learning is an almost instantaneous process achieved during the action he is attempting to learn)

Standard Equipment: C.O.P earpiece

*Downgrade his Intelligence to just Genius as he doesn't meet any of the criteria for Extraordinary

**Remove the "Short-tempered" bit of his Weaknesses as that's only a problem once, an actual weakness would be his cybernetic parts aren't as strong as the rest of his body

Omni-Man

BFR (Can punch opponents to space)
Telepathy via C.O.P earpiece (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with others using equivalent technology in space. Without it, communication works only one way)

Standard Equipment: C.O.P earpiece

Conquest

BFR (Can fly opponents to space)

Thragg

Martial Arts (In order to be made regent, Thragg was trained from birth and educated in all manners of combat, tempered to be the strongest viltrumite of all)
BFR (Can throw opponents to the depths of space)

Social Influencing (Instigating Fear & Coercion; Succesfully convinced Invincible and Omni-Man on a truce, threatening with his forces destroying the planet were they to retaliate, and Allen the Alien, mentioning that even if he were to be infected with the Scourge virus, he'd kill him and it'd ultimately accomplish nothing)

Intelligence: Gifted(Led the Viltrumite empire for thousands of years and kept it's stranglehold on the galaxy even with their dwindling numbers. After his exile, he set in motion the viltrumite universal conquest again all by himself after conquering Thraxa and producing rapid-aging offspring to build a giant army from the ground up, as well as training them)

Allen The Alien

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Space Survival (Can survive in space indefinitely)
• True Flight
• Martial Arts and Weapon Mastery (Nearly from the day he was born Allen was taught to be "the greatest fighter the universe had ever seen", having extensive training in multiple armed and unarmed combat fighting systems)
• Adaptation(Genetically enhanced to match viltrumite powers. As a Champion Evaluation Officer, Allen has travelled to multiple planets with different environments)
  • Resistance to Temperature Manipulation(His body can withstand extremes of both heat and cold. Flew into the sun to rescue Invincible)
  • Resistance to Gravity Manipulation(Flew unrestricted in the Rognarr planet, which has a severe gravitational quotient)
• Regeneration (Low-Mid) and Immortality(Type 2 & 3; Still conscious after a powerful explosion burned off his skin and incinerated his limbs and eye, of which he regenerated from in a matter of days)
• Attack Reflection (Deflected a laser blast)
• Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Stats - His strength and muscularity increased following a near death experience)
• Telepathy (Alien technology allows him to speak telepathically with multiple people individually)
• Extrasensory Perception (Perceived the asteroid he was located in and the belt around it breaking apart due to a chain reaction)

Stamina: WDYM his Stamina is Unknown Superhuman (Comparable to a viltrumite. Endured a brutal beating and was willing to keep fighting after it)

Intelligence: Gifted (Thaedus' most trusted agent. Fought in the frontlines of the Viltrumite War leading multiple missions and managed the Coalition of Planets in Thaedus' abscense)

2.- Contentions
These are for abilities that I have certain doubts on or quite couldn't categorize

1.- Does Tech Jacket really warrant Transformation for being a retractable armor ?

2.- I asked about this once but didn't really understood, so hopefully I can get others' opinions here. What ability would this be ? He can gain information on a planet by eating one of it's inhabitants

3.- I also couldn't quite get an answer on this, would this be Enhanced Awareness, Extra Sense, or Extrasensory Perception ? This is likely a playing into Allen's telepathy being particularly strong

4.- A notorious Tech Jacket ability is it's ability to reroute energy across it's systems. I've seen some profiles can list both Statistics Amplification and Statistics Reduction (as he can even reroute energy from defenses and weaponry), but he doesn't really do something like "200% weaponry" and as we've seen rerouting everything to one system can overload and backfire. I've been told it could be listed as Energy Manipulation but I read it and I'm not so sure, should this just be listed as a notable technique ?

5.- Viltrumite Enhanced senses

The Handbook states as such

And the show even doubles down on it


However, we have these two infamous panels of Mark and Oliver joking about not having super hearing

And even some instances of Omni-Man displaying Enhanced senses can be explained with him receiving orders from Cecil through an earpiece

But even then, later on in the comic Robot says this, implying a degree of super hearing

So, how should we treat this ? Just remove Enhanced Senses ? Omni-Man has it but since Mark and Oliver are hybrids it'll take time to develop ?

3.- Scaling

1.- How tf did they get 130 mph is Superhuman ? That's Subsonic

2.- On the topic of Eve, why are her Attack Potency and Durability divided on "shields" and "constructs" ? It's all the same and should have the same Tier. Anyway, in First Resurrection key, she's currently scaling to the Staff of Leadership and that part of the statement that says it can destroy citites. However, it also outright says it can end civilizations

In fact, it has enough power to momentarily stun a post-Conquest Invincible

And as seen in her 3rd key, right before her Second Resurrection she could somewhat fight off Ursaal, who should be decently stronger than Viltrumite War Mark

So what should her Second Key be ? At least High 6-A, likely far higher ? At most Low 5-B ?

3.- This calc was finally accepted, so time for some upgrades

Tech Jacket

Lifting Strength: At least Class P, likely far higher (Capable of throwing large chunks of a viltrumite warship off-planet) | At least Class Z (Ten times stronger than before. Overpowered multiple viltrumites at once)

Null

First, he should only have one key, as it's been shown he wasn't amped by the Colossal at all

Attack Potency: Small Planet level (Easily defeated Tech Jacket before and after his armor was upgraded)

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z (Ripped Post-Colossal Tech Jacket's arm off)

Striking Strength: Small Planet level

Durability: Small Planet level (Barely inconvenienced by Tech Jacket's attacks, as well as other geldarian weaponry)

Oliver Grayson

Lifting Strength: At least Class P, likely Class Z (Capable of throwing large chunks of a viltrumite warship off-planet. Briefly grappled with Invincible)

Atom Eve

First Resurrection Key

Lifting Strength: Athletic Human physically. At least Class P, likely Class Z with constructs (Briefly restrained Ursaal, a royal guard viltrumite-hybrid)

Second Resurrection Key

Lifting Strength: Athletic Human physically. At least Class Z with constructs (Her barriers were able to hold back Thragg's army of Viltrumites)

Robot

Titanium-Volcanic Armor

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z (Superior to Invincible Reanimen)

On the topic of the alternate/reanimen Invincible, the justification for Robot used to be that they should comparable to an Early Invincible but some of them are outright as strong as Prime Mark and can do stuff like beat all the Guardians with ease and beat Tech Jacket up(these two died so they would later be turned into Reanimen)

Some of them being killed by guest characters doesn't really mean anything because Invincible War is first and foremost a crossover event so of course that'll happen

After being turned into Reanimen they can pose a threat to Dinosaurus and Post-Viltrumite War Mark

P&As:

Agree: CitRusReality64, ReturnofKhadz, AbaddonTheDisappointment, Mr. Bambu
Disagree:
Neutral:

LS scaling:

Agree: CitRusReality64, ReturnofKhadz, AbaddonTheDisappointment, Mr. Bambu
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[OrangeFR]

It seems alright upon first look, some of the reasonings are a bit of a stretch but I don’t have time to go over that rn. One big thing tho, I’m pretty sure space survival as an ability is in the process of being phased out and just being replaced with resistances and shit. I could be wrong though so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Tahoy49574]

some of the reasonings are a bit of a stretch

Which ones ?

 

[Reyne]

I don't see why Ursaal would be stronger than Viltrumite War Invincible. Mark would be capable of same things, including getting easily KOed when then current Mark was focused. Also, Onaan wasn't even trying to get out. Because he should be on par with his sister, we'd know he just isn't up to snuff with Mark when he's focused, but I don't see why it would benefit Eve. Eve did tangle with Ursaal for a while, but never as a superior to bind her hands.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I don't see why Ursaal would be stronger than Viltrumite War Invincible.

Viltrumites get stronger with age and Mark was barely into adulthood by the time of the Viltrumite War, so he should naturally be stronger in the later volumes. They should still somewhat scale by virtue of not being one shot despite being a life or death situation for Mark, Ursaal can even have a prolonged fight with Kregg, and she had a bit of trouble breaking out of one of Eve's constructs

 

[ShakeResounding]

If Atom Eve has metal bending feats before her First Resurrection, that can probably be Class 100 to K depending on certain factors instead of a measly Class 5.

 

[Tahoy49574]

If Atom Eve has metal bending feats before her First Resurrection, that can probably be Class 100 to K depending on certain factors instead of a measly Class 5.

This is the only metal bending she does before her First Resurrection, but it has to do more with her rearranging the atoms and thus some sort of durability negation

Someone could probably properly calculate her moving around all the debris tho

 

[OrangeFR]

Which ones ?

Mainly the ones giving people hand to hand combat proficiency just because they were superheroes, I don’t know a ton about invincible but it seems like Atom Eve doesn’t really of hand to hand a lot. IDK about the rest tho so I could be wrong.

 

[Tahoy49574]

Mainly the ones giving people hand to hand combat proficiency just because they were superheroes, I don’t know a ton about invincible but it seems like Atom Eve doesn’t really of hand to hand a lot. IDK about the rest tho so I could be wrong.

I mean, Mark already has it on his profile so I'm just giving it a justification, and in the later half of the comic he can hold his own against people who have a good chunk of hand-to-hand proficiency, and why not ? Developing hand-to-hand skills after years of superheroing just makes sense, Atom Eve would still have to use her powers efficiently to take down people

 

[OrangeFR]

I mean, Mark already has it on his profile so I'm just giving it a justification, and in the later half of the comic he can hold his own against people who have a good chunk of hand-to-hand proficiency, and why not ? Developing hand-to-hand skills after years of superheroing just makes sense, Atom Eve would still have to use her powers efficiently to take down people

I didn’t mean Invincible the character I meant Invincible the verse, it makes sense for him to have it.

 

[Cropfist]

All the battle beast links are busted

 

[Tahoy49574]

All the battle beast links are busted

Paste the URL in the bar again

 

[Tahoy49574]

All the battle beast links are busted

Actually, just went ahead and hosted them somewhere else

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[CitRusReality64]

I agree with this, I think this is fine

 

[Tahoy49574]

I agree with this, I think this is fine

Do you have any opinion on the Contentions ?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It seems alright upon first look, some of the reasonings are a bit of a stretch but I don’t have time to go over that rn. One big thing tho, I’m pretty sure space survival as an ability is in the process of being phased out and just being replaced with resistances and shit. I could be wrong though so take this with a grain of salt.

Thread 'Space Survival'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/space-survival.157861/

That was during 2023 where Space Survival was added as a ability as response to the prior thread involving resistances and so on.

Don’t ever recall there been plans of space survival removal on the site and all.

Anyway, I will stay out of this thread since I ain’t knowledgeable in the invincible series and all.

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

Agreed.

 

[Tahoy49574]

Agreed.

Any specific thoughts on the LS scaling ?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Come on people, a new episode just dropped

 

[Reyne]

Best S3 Episode (the material was refined)

 

[Tahoy49574]

Best S3 Episode (the material was refined)

Got any anything to say about the upscaling, whether the one here or the previous thread ?

 

[Hellbeast]

Pretty sure Null surviving the sun for a year should include resistances to Fire, Radiation and Gravity as well

 

[Reyne]

Got any anything to say about the upscaling, whether the one here or the previous thread ?

It looks fine. I still have my problem of two very different treatments of the Volcanic drones ("Betrayal Arc" vs "TEOAT Arc"), but the justification is there. Some of Invincibles absolutely should and can be chalked up to being weaker (Pre-Colossus Tech Jacket couldn't burn other Viltrumites like he could Alt. Invincible #15), though I can see it being unfair of myself to argue for thematic weight on one end but not the other. Hell, the GDA may have even put Invincible costumes on regular Reanimen, which could explain there being more than there should be and multiples (Robot punched the one Tech Jacket burned and killed, with a duplicate in the back), but that's beside the point and conjecture.

To Tighten up what I'm saying, I'll do this.

V1 Volcanic Drones (Before Mass Production)
Vastly Superior to Invincible Reanimen (punched one of their heads off, Could block Betrayal Arc Invincible's punches (this Invincible is stronger than the one who could swat Invincible Reanimen away)

V2 Volcanic Drones (After Mass Production)
Safe enough for lower level heroes (EoS Monster Girl), but can still harm a weakened Emperor Invincible. (Invincible abides by Occum's razor, and if Kirkman says she's supposed to be smaller now, and Amanda says she'll get weaker, she's weaker. We know Mark can bleed from places other than his ears when he hears the frequancy, and the inferior Ursaal could swat them away, so it stands to reason that he's made more vulnerable/off kilter/weakened.)

(Notice how I'm trying to make Betrayal Arc a thing, I think there should be more tags. Invincible as a verse deserves that level of dedication for its pages.)

 

[Tahoy49574]

resistances to Fire

Doesn't Resistance to Heat cover that ?

Radiation

That's already covered by Space Survival

Gravity

A bit plot point is that he doesn't have any means of escape so I dunno about that

 

[Tahoy49574]

It looks fine. I still have my problem of two very different treatments of the Volcanic drones ("Betrayal Arc" vs "TEOAT Arc"), but the justification is there. Some of Invincibles absolutely should and can be chalked up to being weaker (Pre-Colossus Tech Jacket couldn't burn other Viltrumites like he could Alt. Invincible #15), though I can see it being unfair of myself to argue for thematic weight on one end but not the other. Hell, the GDA may have even put Invincible costumes on regular Reanimen, which could explain there being more than there should be and multiples (Robot punched the one Tech Jacket burned and killed, with a duplicate in the back), but that's beside the point and conjecture.

To Tighten up what I'm saying, I'll do this.

V1 Volcanic Drones (Before Mass Production)
Vastly Superior to Invincible Reanimen (punched one of their heads off, Could block Betrayal Arc Invincible's punches (this Invincible is stronger than the one who could swat Invincible Reanimen away)

V2 Volcanic Drones (After Mass Production)
Safe enough for lower level heroes (EoS Monster Girl), but can still harm a weakened Emperor Invincible. (Invincible abides by Occum's razor, and if Kirkman says she's supposed to be smaller now, and Amanda says she'll get weaker, she's weaker. We know Mark can bleed from places other than his ears when he hears the frequancy, and the inferior Ursaal could swat them away, so it stands to reason that he's made more vulnerable/off kilter/weakened.)

(Notice how I'm trying to make Betrayal Arc a thing, I think there should be more tags. Invincible as a verse deserves that level of dedication for its pages.)

Monster Girl only lasts that long because she's relevant to the story. Hell, Robot easily takes out the speedster and I highly doubt they intend the Guardians to be faster than her in any way. It's just the nature of Invincible's ending being rushed. If you really feel it should be acknowledged then just put a note on his profile clarifying that.

The only other place Mark has bled from due to the frequency is the nose after multiple hits by Cecil's device, and the robots are clearly drawing blood from his mouth/lips/gums, and I've already explained how Ursaal does scale

I'd rather we don't go with headcannons like them being mass produced reduced their quality, show-onlies already are annoying insisting that happened with the Reanimen. He was building two a week while perfecting the design and construction, it'd be insane if somehow now that he's got help they're worse

 

[Tahoy49574]

What should be done about Robot is separating him in two profile for his Pre and Post Flaxan dimension selves

 

[Reyne]

Monster Girl only lasts that long because she's relevant to the story. Hell, Robot easily takes out the speedster and I highly doubt they intend the Guardians to be faster than her in any way. It's just the nature of Invincible's ending being rushed. If you really feel it should be acknowledged then just put a note on his profile clarifying that.

The only other place Mark has bled from due to the frequency is the nose after multiple hits by Cecil's device, and the robots are clearly drawing blood from his mouth/lips/gums, and I've already explained how Ursaal does scale

I'd rather we don't go with headcannons like them being mass produced reduced their quality, show-onlies already are annoying insisting that happened with the Reanimen. He was building two a week while perfecting the design and construction, it'd be insane if somehow now that he's got help they're worse

The Speedster is outrun, who I don't recall ever getting any that puts her above anyone notable.

While I understand that choking the issue up to conjecture like mass manufacturing, which is at odds with Robot still using the inferiors orange varients in the final battle, the Volcanic drones were still treated very differently. Unless all rebels present in that scene that are getting a profile get a notation at the bottom saying their survival was PIS, or that they're all 5A for taking them on, Robot really will need some acknowledgment on his profile. Regardless of ending being rushed (scaling and 144 are the only real problem), the fact of the matter is is that no one died fighting an army of top tier, adult Viltrumite level drones. If the drones made more than 2 real appearances (arcs), it would be easy to defer to the more consistent portrayal, but that isn't the case.

 

[Tahoy49574]

The Speedster is outrun, who I don't recall ever getting any that puts her above anyone notable.

While I understand that choking the issue up to conjecture like mass manufacturing, which is at odds with Robot still using the inferiors orange varients in the final battle, the Volcanic drones were still treated very differently. Unless all rebels present in that scene that are getting a profile get a notation at the bottom saying their survival was PIS, or that they're all 5A for taking them on, Robot really will need some acknowledgment on his profile. Regardless of ending being rushed (scaling and 144 are the only real problem), the fact of the matter is is that no one died fighting an army of top tier, adult Viltrumite level drones. If the drones made more than 2 real appearances (arcs), it would be easy to defer to the more consistent portrayal, but that isn't the case.

Isn't it just logic ? Why have a speedster if it won't be substantially faster than the rest of the team. She even is the only one to help Mark look for the bombs Dinosaurus left

If we're talking about consistent portrayals, then it would be an outlier for them to measure up out of nowhere as for most of the story the narrative is that Earth is doomed if viltrumites attack

Robot beating up Mark in the cover, withstanding multiple hits from him and tearing through the Invincible Reanimen is meant for him to be at viltrumite level. He even is implied to have fought Thraxan hybrids on his own

Also, the wiki got cold-feet with the 5-A upgrade

 

[Reyne]

Isn't it just logic ? Why have a speedster if it won't be substantially faster than the rest of the team. She even is the only one to help Mark look for the bombs Dinosaurus left

If we're talking about consistent portrayals, then it would be an outlier for them to measure up out of nowhere as for most of the story the narrative is that Earth is doomed if viltrumites attack

Robot beating up Mark in the cover, withstanding multiple hits from him and tearing through the Invincible Reanimen is meant for him to be at viltrumite level. He even is implied to have fought Thraxan hybrids on his own

Also, the wiki got cold-feet with the 5-A upgrade

I mean, logic would tell me that Bulletproof is faster than Eve because we're shown on panel that he can blitz, as was as being said to be Red Rush fast, but then he gets walluped. Internally, Outrun is never treated as anything special, and he feats aren't anything special either. She doesn't blitz anyone like Red Rush did in the Rebooted Arc.

Yeah, the drones being top tier is for that arc, and that arc only. I think them taking down Rampage, a nothing character, is the only thing they do outside of the arcs they're relevant to. Which is to say, there's nothing to bridge the gap between existential threat and fodder. Come to think of it, Rex admits the 50> Viltrumites to best his drones. So, I might be overplaying how top tier they're supposed to be, being as there looked to be a whole brigad of them on standby, on top of the several dozen dispatched around the US. That aside, I do not see how this isn't registering as a big difference in presentation, and therefore scaling.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I mean, logic would tell me that Bulletproof is faster than Eve because we're shown on panel that he can blitz, as was as being said to be Red Rush fast, but then he gets walluped. Internally, Outrun is never treated as anything special, and he feats aren't anything special either. She doesn't blitz anyone like Red Rush did in the Rebooted Arc.

Isn't it crystal clear Donald is just overplaying him so they just take him ? He also says he almost as strong as Omni-Man and that's clearly not the case

Eve also managed to outspeed Ursaal in one instance

Robot admits they'd be able to beat him in a prolonged fight because, aside being faster, they're also extremely hard to put down as seen in the thread. I've already explained that, taking everything into account, the difference in presentation should at most be an outlier for the Earth heroes, we're going in circles here

 

[Reyne]

Isn't it crystal clear Donald is just overplaying him so they just take him ? He also says he almost as strong as Omni-Man and that's clearly not the case

Eve also managed to outspeed Ursaal in one instance

Robot admits they'd be able to beat him in a prolonged fight because, aside being faster, they're also extremely hard to put down as seen in the thread. I've already explained that, taking everything into account, the difference in presentation should at most be an outlier for the Earth heroes, we're going in circles here

Yeah, but Bulletproof did the blur thing. If I wanted to be super fecicous, I would say applying normal logic to scaling is stupid, but here we are. Consistency is what matters, and Outrun has nothing that puts her above anyone notable in reaction time. She just runs faster than most people.

You're right, this is just the same stuff said slightly differently. You think the drones are consistently top tier (the general Viltrumite sphere), and so the ending is an outlier by comparison. I think the gap between the two most regular appearances of the drones has created enough of a divide to make things untenable as being labeled consistent one way or the other, which I have no answer to that isn't headcanon or "writers do whatever for the sake of the story".

 

[Tahoy49574]

which I have no answer to that isn't headcanon

That settles it then

 

[Tahoy49574]

Can someone else please give their two cents on this ?

 

[CBslayeR]

Couldn't you scale the regeneration to the extent she can manipulate matter as a possibly tier? She should be able to manipulate life forms to the same extent she can manipulate other matter with her mental blocks unlocked.


It should also be under biological manipulation rather than just life manipulation I think

 

[Tahoy49574]

Couldn't you scale the regeneration to the extent she can manipulate matter as a possibly tier? She should be able to manipulate life forms to the same extent she can manipulate other matter with her mental blocks unlocked.


It should also be under biological manipulation rather than just life manipulation I think

How so ?

Life Manipulation describes every she's done in that state

 

[Hellbeast]

Doesn't Resistance to Heat cover that ?

Eh it’s good for comprehensiveness

That's already covered by Space Survival

Eh true

A bit plot point is that he doesn't have any means of escape so I dunno about that

Nah, even if I can’t escape the fact he isn’t crushed under the gravity of a star is impressive

 

[SeijiSetto]

Nah, even if I can’t escape the fact he isn’t crushed under the gravity of a star is impressive

that's not a resistance to gravity that's just Being Strong

 

[Tahoy49574]

that's not a resistance to gravity that's just Being Strong

Any thoughts on the CRT ?