The topic we all know and love (Naruto CRT)

[Godernet]

Listen y'all, I know 90% of you are tired of this topic, and frankly, I am too.

However, after having a long, long, long discussion about this off-site, a few conclusions have been drawn about this topic that make it honestly far more interesting but also far more nuanced than how we've handled it in the past (at least to my knowledge)

So please bear with me while I try to make all this information as comprehensive as possible, because of how controversial all of us know this topic is.

This will be the first part of a two or potentially three-part revision defining what we know about Kaguya's Dimensions, the mechanics of her Aminominaka, and the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb.

I'd also like to thank @Shadowbokunohero, @Arc7Kuroi, and @KingTempest for helping to lay out the groundwork for this thread.

As well as any of the supporters in the previous thread who made good points, and remained patient with us as we navigated this complicated topic once again.

Now then, let's get started,

Spoiler: Do Kaguya's worlds exist in a single space?

To start us off, we have a few funny "coincidences"

By the time of Boruto, 14 or so years after the original story, Kaguya's Ice Dimension has two moons, something that was not the case in the original series.

Similarly, we see that in the Desert World, there was no moon in the Naruto series, but by the time of Boruto, it had one.

So why is there a new celestial body in Kaguya's Realm that is only present in the Boruto series, after only 14ish years have passed in the original series?

And yes, you guessed it, the answer was that Naruto and Sasuke, by the end of their fight with Kaguya, used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei to seal her away.

Replicating the previous feat of Hagaromo and Hamura Otsutsuki, creating the moon of Earth.

Spoiler: Every time Kaguya's Dimensions are referenced

So to make sure I covered all bases, myself and a few others went out and looked at how Kaguya's Dimensions are referred to in the manga by the characters (based on their various degrees of understanding) as well as the Databooks.

This section will largely contextualize how Kaguya's dimensions are talked about to inform the next section.

• Kakashi, having initially believed this world to be genjutsu, due to the heat produced by lava and likely his Sharingan's perception abilities, he instead came to the conclusion that Kaguya had brought them to an Alternate Dimension.
• The next time it is brought up is when Naruto and Sasuke believe to have cornered Kaguya and are about to attempt to seal her, Kaguya then teleports them to the Ice World, where Sasuke remarks that Kaguya has an ability to move between Spaces.
• Obito sees Kaguya's portal, remarks to himself that the portal Kaguya uses is a type of Time-Space, then makes the assertion that Sasuke, who was snatched by Kaguya earlier, is in another Dimension.
• Obito then states that he believes, due to Kaguya having emerged from a different time space, her Aminominaka should be compatible with his own space-time ninjutsu ability Kamui, and that maybe he can bring him back to this dimension.
• Obito then goes on to say that it will require an enormous amount of Chakra due to it not being his own Time-Space.
• Kaguya refers to the area they are in as her Time-Space.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Dimension as a "Root Time-Space that directly connects to the other five Time-Spaces."
• Zetsu remarks that Kaguya consumes a huge amount of chakra whenever changing the Time-Space of the World.
• While Naruto holds off Kaguya, Obito links his Kamui to Kaguya's Space-Time Portal to teleport to the world Kaguya fled to.
• Obito calls Kaguya's "Time-Space" incredibly vast. (Wiki Translation by SeijiSetto)
• Hiruzen, reiterating what Hagaromo told them, calls Kaguya's Dimension an Alternate Time-Space.
• Zetsu talking about the Root Time-Space again (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)
• An example of interchangable referencing via Sakura calling Kaguya's Root Dimension a Space while Kakashi calls it a World.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Time Space as Kaguya's exclusive domain and then calls ETSO the start of a new Time-Space.
• Aminominaka Databook Entry (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)

Spoiler: What does the Context give us?

Well, first I will say that I think it is very apparent that in the Naruto series, World, Alternate Dimension, Time-Space, and Space are all interchangably used to refer to the various different abilities that allow one to move to a location that is not the planet Earth that they know.

In just this fight alone, we are given over a dozen instances of Kaguya's dimensions being directly addressed with different terminology that can lead to wildly different implications depending on the context they are used in.

However, with some context, some of this becomes less foggy,

For one, the Japanese Kanji, 空間 or "kūkan" that is often used for her Dimensions/Spaces can often be used to interchangeably mean any of the words used to describe Kaguya's Dimensions that I've listed above.

Meaning that the Viz translations will often take some creative liberties based on their interpretation of what each scene is trying to portray.

What is apparent at the very least is that it's referring to a world that isn't Earth.

Also, when Zetsu is referring to the Root Dimension in Kanji, he says 始球空間 or Shikyū kūkan.

When translated by our own Apotheosis69 here, this was effectively translated to mean,

• "始 shi" means a beginning or the first of something.
• "球 kyū" is a ball/orb mainly for like a globe/planet.

So closer to something along the lines of "beginning globe" or "primary planet".

And with the previous context of kūkan, we know that the translation is roughly "Primary planet space".

This same way of referring to the Root Dimension was reiterated by Zetsu again later, translated by Apotheosis69 here

Zetsu is the most knowledgeable person on the origins of these six worlds and the mechanics of Kaguya's Aminominaka, besides Kaguya herself.

For him to refer to these worlds as essentially globes or planets is far more telling than the various hypotheses of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, or Kakashi, who can all only infer what they are based on their observations.

Obito, who is actively trying to link his Space-Time Ninjutsu to Kaguya's realms, mentions how vast her space is.

This statement is translated by our very own SeijiSetto, here

With the translation implying a vast physical distance from what Obito is contextually referring to as the entirety of Kaguya's Space, as he is actively going through every world to find Sasuke.

Spoiler: What is Kaguya's Time-Space?

Well, that's just the thing, there is nothing in the Naruto series that explains how this timespace came to be.

For all we know, when she awakened the Sharinnegan, she could have been granted a solar system-sized world as a canvas, like how Obito was given the Kamui Dimension when his Mangekyo Sharingan awakened. And later turned that canvas into a plane of Six Worlds.

Or she could have flown out into deep space and linked her Space-Time Ninjutsu to a selection of planets that she took over, as is the Otsutsuki way.

However, how it came to be doesn't change what we know that it is.

What we do know is that in every bit of material we have on the subject, it is interchangeably referred to as a world, space, time-space, or an Alternate Dimension.

With Obito implying physical distance between the space of an overall larger space.

With Zetsu directly referring to the Root Dimension in a way that suggests Globe or Planet.

With enough rock on just the Root Dimension to create an entire moon.

And with said moon being visible from the two worlds of Kaguya, we see Post-Naruto, showing us that they at least occupy the same visually distinguishable space.

Given all of that context in mind, I think there is more than enough evidence to say that Kaguya's Time-Space in its totality is at least a vast plane comprised of Six Worlds and, as of the Boruto Era, a moon.

Spoiler: The Sun tho

Yeah...here's where we get to the controversial part of the thread.

If we accept that Kaguya's planets exist in a single space, just very, very far away from each other, as most planets are.

Then that leaves us with little to no evidence that each realm is spatially separated from each other, and to bring it a notch further, no proof that what we see beyond the six worlds encompasses Kaguya's space.

To that, I'm sure many would point to how these worlds experience natural phenomena such as heat and gravity from a star the same way you would expect any planet to.

However, if Kaguya's realm can't be definitively defined as entirely comprised of things that she created or one spatiotemportally isolated from the rest of the universe, not only would it still feel the effects of a star regardless of if the star was inside of the realm or not, but that leaves us with no true way of defining its borders to stretch beyond the six planets that we know exist inside of it.

The closest thing I found to potential for Kaguya's Realm being spatially isolated was in Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 54.

When Kinshiki encountered Sasuke inside Kaguya's Ice World, his first response was, "I didn't think that anyone else could enter this place besides us."

However IMO, that's a lot to imply from one vague interaction, and this could also just be explained away if Kaguya's world was in a distant part of remote space not easily traveled to.

Which wouldn't be a strange conclusion to draw, considering the Otsutsuki are the only spacefaring, pseudo-immortal race we know of in the Naruto Cosmos, and it even takes them a while to get around the universe without having already established a connection to their space-time abilities.

Frankly, I believe the Sun residing in Kaguya's Realm is a complex topic that is in no way a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

But at the same time one could argue it doesn't have the necessary evidence to make it the default assumption, all things considered.

I do know that the default assumption is that, typically, a star is believed to reside in the dimension it is shown in unless proven otherwise.

So if Staff or our Standards dictate that we treat this case a certain way, or someone brings up evidence that would support it, I don't mind the alternative of the Star being assumed to reside in Kaguya's Realm.

Spoiler: The Short Version

Kaguya's "Time-Space" is one large space with enough area to fit at least 6 planets and a moon because:

• We see celestial bodies created from the debris of one of the worlds in two of the other worlds.
• Zetsu, when defining one of the six worlds, does so in a way that implies they are globes or planets.
• Obito confirms that there is physical distance between the worlds in what he implies to be a single Time-Space.
• One of these worlds was shown capable of producing enough rock to create a moon, with the world's curvature shown in the creation of the moon, supporting the interpretation that these are globes or planets.

The Star might not definitively be in the Realm because:

• There is no evidence of the Realm being created by Kaguya or spatially isolated from the rest of the universe to imply things like gravity or heat could only apply if a star were in the realm (heavily dependent on if staff believes this fits with our standards for stars in a pocket dimension or not.)

Well, that pretty much wraps up everything I wanted to say.

I'll leave y'all to your votes, and yeah, if this is passed, the next thread will cover the ramifications this could potentially have for the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb, and the potential avenues we have to go from here.

Maybe even a cosmology CRT in the future because it's definitely starting to look more and more like we need one.

Thank you especially to all the people who have participated in these last several threads, y'all are a patient bunch.

And as always, let's keep it civil.

Votes

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Godernet]

ight im headed to the gym, surely y'all will be civil and all when I get back.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I've seen this already and discussed it with you extensively, so I agree. Good job to all who were involved.

 

[Testarossa002]

And as always, let's keep it civil.

No
Chaos >>>

 

[Godernet]

btw for anyone that needs to hear this, staff are allowed to drop agreements early if they agree with the premise.

If counterarguments are compelling enough, votes can be recounted or staff can be resummoned to evaluate certain arguments.

That's the whole point of CRTs: adjusting stances as new information or argumentation is presented.

alright I'm actually gone this time for now

 

[KingTempest]

I've seen this already and discussed it with you extensively, so I agree. Good job to all who were involved.

What he said

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

btw for anyone that needs to hear this, staff are allowed to drop agreements early if they agree with the premise.

If counterarguments are compelling enough, votes can be recounted or staff can be resummoned to evaluate certain arguments.

That's the whole point of CRTs: adjusting stances as new information or argumentation is presented.

alright I'm actually gone this time for now

Yeah, needless to say, this thread will remain open for a week at bare minimum.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

oh boy

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yes im in agreement that they occupy a shared space including the star.

 

[Crabwhale]

:Beelips:

 

[Nierre]

Neutral on whether the Star is within that shared space or not, but as for everything else I find myself agreeing with the OP.

 

[LordTracer]

At the moment, my thoughts are the same as Nierre’s. I would like to see some more discussion before giving a verdict on the star thing.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

By what you showed 3 moons were somewhat created between the original series and Boruto, when at best there should be just one. But isn't it more likely that to just be an inconsistency? Or if you want to go with a less meta explanation, we couldn't see them because they were not visible at that point because they were hidden in the other side of the planets, or just because no one went there doesn't mean those dimensions were stopped in time, so the moons were just formed "naturally" as a result of time passing.
Zetsu's statement about the "being the creation fo a new space time" is as far as I know the closest we got to know how "those dimensions" are created, so it's probably the safest way. But assume that Kaguya's "dimensions" are just other planets part of the same universe would be no different from saying Kaguya is universal because she was gonna destroy everything with ETSO.
I don't see why wouldn't the sun be assumed to exist on that dimension.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Everything else aside, I really don't buy the arguments in the first section about Kaguyas dimensions.
We had VERY limited showings of the sky in her ice and desert dimension in shippuden and just because those celestial objects weren't visible there doesn't mean they didn't exist. The image of Kaguyas ice dimension is like 90% ice and 10% sky in one small window while the desert dimensions barely show the sky as a small thin line in the Manga with the anime only showing 1 side of the sky during a day.

Hell I could go outside rn and take like 20 different pictures of the sky without the moon being visible in any of them. So whether or not the other arguments are true (idrc enough to actually read them lmao), this one is really weak

 

[Godernet]

By what you showed 3 moons were somewhat created between the original series and Boruto, when at best there should be just one. But isn't it more likely that to just be an inconsistency?

1 Moon was created, and the other was in the ice world of unknown origin.

Even if one were to argue that neither moon being visible in the Naruto series due to the thick fog of the Ice World means its should be ambiguous.

The one in the Sand world is pretty blatantly in the same area and at the same time of day with the sun out with clear skies.

We also wouldn't assume an artistic inconsistency unless we were given a reason to believe there is one.

A new moon, when there is an in-canon reason for a new celestial body to be there, is far more likely than an artistic inconsistency in both the Boruto Movie and Anime having a moon.

Or if you want to go with a less meta explanation, we couldn't see them because they were not visible at that point because they were hidden in the other side of the planets,

Then why would we not see the much bigger planets themselves blocking the way if that was the intent?

It's the same area in both shots for both planets.

or just because no one went there doesn't mean those dimensions were stopped in time, so the moons were just formed "naturally" as a result of time passing.

So, do you think it's more likely that a moon just spawned in naturally in 14 years' time?

It's scientifically estimated that it took millions of years for our Earth to get a moon.

And even if we stick to the confines of the Naruto series, Earth didn't even have a moon till Hagaromo and Hamura made one.

We have virtually no reason to believe that isn't just Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.

Zetsu's statement about the "being the creation fo a new space time" is as far as I know the closest we got to know how "those dimensions" are created, so it's probably the safest way.

ngl that statement does not have to mean that at all.

For one, We have a precedent of Dojutsu giving you access to worlds like Obito having a world spawn for him when he unlocked MS.

Or Kawaki being given access to Isshiki's Timeless void with the acquisition of his powers.

The Otsutsuki are spacefaring, planet-devouring alien pirates who gain new genetic data and powers as they take more planets.

It is just as possible for her to have snatched those planets and isolated them for her Aminominaka spatial jutsu, or just been given them when she awakened her Sharinnegan.

Also, idk if I was clear enough in my post, but Zetsu doesn't say "new time-space"; that was Viz translators being extra.

He says it's the start of a new space, which is much, much vaguer.

He could literally just be saying, she's gonna erase the board and nuke all 6 worlds, which would still be the start of a new space.

It's not like it would hinder her either, she could just go find 6 more worlds and drag them into her realm with some class Z TK shenanigans via the Deva Path and perhaps Space-Time Ninjutsu.

But assume that Kaguya's "dimensions" are just other planets part of the same universe would be no different from saying Kaguya is universal because she was gonna destroy everything with ETSO.

That's very different from saying that, actually.

because something can exist in the same universe but still be spatially isolated from the rest of it, or spatiotemporally isolated.

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

I don't see why wouldn't the sun be assumed to exist on that dimension.

I said my piece on that, like I said, I'm not 100% convinced on either side, so I'm leaving that up to the staff.

 

[Godernet]

Everything else aside, I really don't buy the arguments in the first section about Kaguyas dimensions.
We had VERY limited showings of the sky in her ice and desert dimension in shippuden and just because those celestial objects weren't visible there doesn't mean they didn't exist. The image of Kaguyas ice dimension is like 90% ice and 10% sky in one small window while the desert dimensions barely show the sky as a small thin line in the Manga with the anime only showing 1 side of the sky during a day.

The problem is that in our limited showing of the desert world, we were shown the exact same area at the exact same time of day both times, and in one shot there is a moon and in the one during Shippuden, there isn't one.

Hell I could go outside rn and take like 20 different pictures of the sky without the moon being visible in any of them. So whether or not the other arguments are true (idrc enough to actually read them lmao), this one is really weak

This is also kinda irrelevant to the point because our circumstances of seeing the moon are very different.

For one, if you live in a town or city, you're bound to have some Light Pollution (basically a lotta artificial lights creating a layer that makes it harder to see celestial bodies both at day and night), you have a general disadvantage in being able to see celestial bodies.

Not to mention, a moon's phase and location in the sky is a big factor (tho it should alway be visible during that window of the day as long as it's not a new moon, which wouldn't really apply in this scenario for reasons ill get in to)

However, we also again, know that it was daytime in both examples and that Sasuke was traveling across the exact location where Sakura's jacket was left in Shippuden.

Also, to bring up another point, it's not a moon orbiting the Desert World, it's a moon orbiting the Root World.

You're going outside with a camera and trying to find a moon that orbits us in our heavily populated, heavily polluted world is very different from a moon that revolves around an entirely different planet from the world you are on, suddenly appearing when the conditions are almost identical to the ones prior, in a place with no obstructions to inhibit seeing a celestial body.

 

[Robo432343]

are we 100% certain the translations are correct this time

 

[KingTempest]

are we 100% certain the translations are correct this time

We got em from the official translation request spot, which we were yelled at for not using last time. So yes, they're correct.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The problem is that in our limited showing of the desert world, we were shown the exact same area at the exact same time of day both times, and in one shot there is a moon and in the one during Shippuden, there isn't one.

In the manga we don't even get a proper shot of the sky in the desert world. In the anime we get a random shot during the day where the sun is MUCH higher than in the BE image of the dimension.

Plus time isn't even the only thing to decide the visibility of a moon. Weather and time of year are also crucial so on top of missing evidence you'd also need to prove it's the exact same day of year and the same weather in both scenes.

This is also kinda irrelevant to the point because our circumstances of seeing the moon are very different.

My point was that it's easy for a moon to not be visible there even if it's out.

Not to mention, a moon's phase and location in the sky is a big factor

Right, same as for Sasuke there and we have no evidence moon's phase location were the same.

However, we also again, know that it was daytime in both examples

Daytime covers about 12 hours give or take depending on what season it is.

and that Sasuke was traveling across the exact location where Sakura's jacket was left in Shippuden.

And what exactly did we see there? These shots don't exactly tells us much.

Actually I would say we have evidence it's a very different time of the day. If you look at the shadows below Sasuke, the sand that jumps up below his feet, and the jacket, they are all directly below the objects which would indicate its noon (sun is right above Sasuke). The anime also seems to show the sun right above Sasukes head.

Meanwhile in the BE panel directly shows the sun to be in the direction Sasuke is walking. And since the sun is in a different point in the sky, the time should definitely be different.

Also, to bring up another point, it's not a moon orbiting the Desert World, it's a moon orbiting the Root World.

That's assuming you're right. Strictly visually speaking the side of the moon which we see in shippuden doesn't resemble the moon we see in the Boruto scene. Ofc it could be just a different side than what we see in Boruto, especially of the moon is tidaly locked, but it still lowers the chances of it being the same thing.

You're going outside with a camera and trying to find a moon that orbits us in our heavily populated, heavily polluted world is very different from a moon that revolves around an entirely different planet from the world you are on, suddenly appearing when the conditions are almost identical to the ones prior, in a place with no obstructions to inhibit seeing a celestial body.

You're missing my point (also I live in a small village, I don't have light pollution issues lol). My point is that the sky is massive and our moon only takes up about 1 degree of it.

 

[Kayzz]

My take is that Kaguya's dimension doesn't exist in the Naruto universe. It is its own separate time-space. This is because it has been directly compared to Kamui's time-space by Obito himself and compared to Momoshiki’s parallel world in some guides. In fiction, an alternate parallel world exists but doesn't overlap with the material and effects of the real world, but follows similar mechanics.

As for whether Kaguya created them, there isn't any way to tell if looking for feats. However, TSBs are known for creation and destruction.
Destruction is a given. And I would also assume creation as well because there's no space-time ability shown in the series that can move something as big as a star or planet to anywhere else. That's a big assumption. So to follow the path of less assumptions, yes, Kaguya created the matter within her dimension using Yin-Yang release and TSBs which have canonically shown the power of creation of matter.
Kinda looks questionable to suggest she found an acid planet in space, or a planet she can control its gravity out of nowhere.

On the size of Kaguya’s dimension, we can't tell exactly. The reasonable low end would be solar system sized. I can agree it's likely all one giant space because Kakashi assumes the TSB will fill up everywhere and there'll be no place to return to. This would assume the ETSB will hit other planets beyond the root dimension. However, all one giant space could still be interpreted as each planet having its own star, making it multi-solar system.

That's all I have to say.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

1 Moon was created, and the other was in the ice world of unknown origin.

Even if one were to argue that neither moon being visible in the Naruto series due to the thick fog of the Ice World means its should be ambiguous.

I meant not visible as in hidden because of their orbit around the planet.

The one in the Sand world is pretty blatantly in the same area and at the same time of day with the sun out with clear skies.

Different seasons, and different planet doesn't mean that the day night cycle has the same duration, or that the orbit of the moon can't make it invisible for days.

Then why would we not see the much bigger planets themselves blocking the way if that was the intent?

Again I meant hidden by the orbit.

It's the same area in both shots for both planets.

At different times of different days weird orbits create seasons.

So, do you think it's more likely that a moon just spawned in naturally in 14 years' time?

It's scientifically estimated that it took millions of years for our Earth to get a moon.

And scientifically most theories put our moon as taking at low end been formed in just a few years with some saying it takes hours or months, it took millions of years until a meteor fell on the planet to create a moon.

And even if we stick to the confines of the Naruto series, Earth didn't even have a moon till Hagaromo and Hamura made one.

And so we have to assume moons can't be naturally formed? We have to assume every moon was created by six path Jutsu?

We have virtually no reason to believe that isn't just Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.

So your suggestion is it's more likely that Six path or someone with the same Jutsu managed to get into Kaguya's planets and created moons for literally no reason? How is that a better reason?

ngl that statement does not have to mean that at all.

For one, We have a precedent of Dojutsu giving you access to worlds like Obito having a world spawn for him when he unlocked MS.

And his dimension is clearly not a normal planet in the universe as you are trying to argue.

Or Kawaki being given access to Isshiki's Timeless void with the acquisition of his powers.

Again not a planet in the normal universe, and none of that really matters we are not assuming Kaguya created those dimensions for any scaling, we assume the destruction of it by ETSO.

The Otsutsuki are spacefaring, planet-devouring alien pirates who gain new genetic data and powers as they take more planets.

And all those planets are devastated without energy and likely destroyed by a juubi, we don't see any signs of that in those dimensions.

Also, idk if I was clear enough in my post, but Zetsu doesn't say "new time-space"; that was Viz translators being extra.

He says it's the start of a new space, which is much, much vaguer.

He could literally just be saying, she's gonna erase the board and nuke all 6 worlds, which would still be the start of a new space.

And that would include everything that is visible .

That's very different from saying that, actually.

because something can exist in the same universe but still be spatially isolated from the rest of it, or spatiotemporally isolated.

Which makes no sense if your argument is that the sun is not part of the dimension or isolated space or whatever you wanna call it, but even then that explanation is very assumptions when you yourself called those statements vague.

 

[Samlex1234]

Also, when Zetsu is referring to the Root Dimension in Kanji, he says 始球空間 or Shikyū kūkan.

When translated by our own Apotheosis69 here, this was effectively translated to mean,

• "始 shi" means the beginning or the first of something.
• "球 kyū" is a ball/orb mainly for like a globe/planet.

So closer to something along the lines of "beginning globe" or "primary planet".

And with the previous context of kūkan, we know that the translation is roughly "Primary planet space".

Debunking Misinterpretations in the CRT

Quite a lot of arguments and points in this CRT are inconsistent with the actual content of the Naruto series, the meaning of the Japanese words used, the author’s intention, and the overall narrative shown in the anime, novel and manga. Many arguments seem to stem from personal headcanons rather than textual evidence or linguistic accuracy. I’ll be addressing several of these issues over the week, as I currently don’t have the time to go over all of them. For now, I’ll address two foundational points that need immediate clarification.

Foundational argument One
Misinterpretation of “Shikyū Space” as “Planets”

The claim that Shikyū Space translates to or refers to planets is completely inaccurate.

Understanding the Kanji:

• 球 (kyū): Means “ball,” “sphere,” or “globe.” It does not specifically mean “planet.”

• 始球 (shikyū): This compound translates literally as “starting ball.”

• In Japanese culture, it’s most commonly associated with the first pitch in baseball or the opening ball in ritual.

• 空間 (kūkan): A standard Japanese term meaning “space” or “dimension,” which refers to either physical or metaphysical space.

Correct Breakdown and Interpretation:

The phrase 始球空間 (shikyū kūkan) breaks down as:
• 始球 (shikyū) = “starting ball”

• 空間 (kūkan) = “space”

So, the phrase is best interpreted as “Starting Ball Space”, or more figuratively as “Origin Space” or “Primordial Dimension” in a fantasy context. The term “starting ball” serves as a conceptual descriptor for the nature or role of the space, not its shape or that it represents a planet. There’s no direct implication that the dimension is spherical in form; rather, it’s more of a symbolic or thematic label tied to beginnings or origins.

Clarifying the Use of “Kyū” (球)

The Op argued that since “kyū” appears in words like 地球 (chikyū – Earth), it must mean “planet.” This is misleading and takes the kanji out of context.

Apotheosis69’s Clarification:

When I asked whether “kyū” refers to the shape of the space in this context, @Apotheosis69 clarified:



And I interpret “‘kyū’ instead of being used to describe Space, it is used to describe Planet instead; however, it can also be used to describe Space since the universe and space are usually depicted as being spherical in nature.”

This means that even in this interpretation, kyū would still refer to the shape of space, not the concept of a planet itself. As the word planet was never introduced in that sentence.

Common Usages of “Kyū” (球):
• 地球 (chikyū) – Earth (“earth sphere”)

• 野球 (yakyū) – Baseball (“field ball”)

• 球体 (kyūtai) – Sphere

• 球技 (kyūgi) – Ball sports

• 電球 (denkyū) – Lightbulb

• 球根 (kyūkon) – Plant bulb

In all of these, kyū retains its core meaning of “ball” or “sphere”, not “planet.”

For all we know, when she awakened the Sharinnegan, she could have been granted a solar system-sized world as a canvas, like how Obito was given the Kamui Dimension when his Mangekyo Sharingan awakened. And later turned that canvas into a plane of Six Worlds.

Or she could have flown out into deep space and linked her Space-Time Ninjutsu to a selection of planets that she took over, as is the Otsutsuki way.

However, how it came to be doesn't change what we know that it is.

What we do know is that every bit of material we have on the subject, it is interchangeably referred to as a world, space, time-space, or an Alternate Dimension.

With Obito implying physical distance between the space of an overall larger space.

With Zetsu directly referring to the Root Dimension in a way that suggests Globe or Planet.

With enough rock on just the Root Dimension to create an entire moon.

And with said moon being visible from the two worlds of Kaguya, we see Post-Naruto, showing us that they at least occupy the same visually distinguishable space.

Given all of that context in mind, I think there is more than enough evidence to say that Kaguya's Time-Space in its totality is at least a vast plane comprised of Six Worlds and, as of the Boruto Era, a moon.
[/SPOILER]

Spoiler: The Sun tho

Yeah...here's where we get to the controversial part of the thread.

If we accept that Kaguya's planets exist in a single space, just very, very far away from each other, as most planets are.

Then that leaves us with little to no evidence that each realm is spatially separated from each other, and to bring it a notch further, no proof that what we see beyond the six worlds encompasses Kaguya's space.

To that, I'm sure many would point to how these worlds experience natural phenomena such as heat and gravity from a star the same way you would expect any planet to.

However, if Kaguya's realm can't be definitively defined as entirely comprised of things that she created or one spatiotemportally isolated from the rest of the universe, not only would it still feel the effects of a star regardless of if the star was inside of the realm or not, but that leaves us with no true way of defining its borders to stretch beyond the six planets that we know exist inside of it.

The closest thing I found to potential for Kaguya's Realm being spatially isolated was in Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 54.

When Kinshiki encountered Sasuke inside Kaguya's Ice World, his first response was, "I didn't think that anyone else could enter this place besides us."

However IMO, that's a lot to imply from one vague interaction, and this could also just be explained away if Kaguya's world was in a distant part of remote space not easily traveled to.

Which wouldn't be a strange conclusion to draw, considering the Otsutsuki are the only spacefaring, pseudo-immortal race we know of in the Naruto Cosmos, and it even takes them a while to get around the universe without having already established a connection to their space-time abilities.

Frankly, I believe the Sun residing in Kaguya's Realm is a complex topic that is in no way a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

But at the same time one could argue it doesn't have the necessary evidence to make it the default assumption, all things considered.

I do know that the default assumption is that, typically, a star is believed to reside in the dimension it is shown in unless proven otherwise.

So if Staff or our Standards dictate that we treat this case a certain way, or someone brings up evidence that would support it, I don't mind the alternative of the Star being assumed to reside in Kaguya's Realm.

Spoiler: The Short Version

Kaguya's "Time-Space" is one large space with enough area to fit at least 6 planets and a moon because:

• We see celestial bodies created from the debris of one of the worlds in two of the other worlds.
• Zetsu, when defining one of the six worlds, does so in a way that implies they are globes or planets.
• Obito confirms that there is physical distance between the worlds in what he implies to be a single Time-Space.
• One of these worlds was shown capable of producing enough rock to create a moon, with the world's curvature shown in the creation of the moon, supporting the interpretation that these are globes or planets.

The Star might not definitively be in the Realm because:

• There is no evidence of the Realm being created by Kaguya or spatially isolated from the rest of the universe to imply things like gravity or heat could only apply if a star were in the realm (heavily dependent on if staff believes this fits with our standards for stars in a pocket dimension or not.)

The Nature of Kaguya’s Dimensions: Separate Sub-Spaces or Shared Universe ( different space-times in the overarching space-time continuum)?

Foundational argument Two
Misinterpretation of the nature of the dimensions and the Appeal to Ignorance

The claim that we do not know the author’s intention on these dimensions or we don't really have any evidence on whether Kaguya’s spaces share the same spacetime continuum as Naruto’s world is a classic appeal to ignorance. As a verse, we are guided by canonical material, not speculation or fan consensus. Ignoring official content just to align with community wikis dilutes the integrity of the narrative. If we truly want to understand the author’s intention, we need to objectively examine what the story and its associated materials actually say and do so with an open-mind

Description of Kaguya’s Space in Boruto: Naruto the Movie Novel

In the novelization of Boruto: Naruto the Movie which we accept as canon on the wiki, we get a detailed description of the kind of space Naruto was taken into providing crucial insight into what these dimensions are:

Note- I asked for an official translation of the scans but this is an AI translation if anyone needs or want to translate the scans by themselves you can ask me for them .

ナルトは暗闇の中にいた。
木ノ葉隠れの里からさほど離れたとも思えぬが、見覚えのない場所、というよりは異界だった。
ひどく暗く、空が歪んでいる。この世の空間でないことは明白だった。
（カグヤも人を異界に飛ばす力を持っていた……結界、あるいは亜空間のようなものか？）

Translation:

Naruto was in darkness. It didn’t feel like he had been taken very far from the Hidden Leaf Village, but the place was unfamiliar no, more than that, it felt like an entirely different world.

It was oppressively dark, and the sky was warped.
(Kaguya also had the power to send people to other worlds… A barrier? Or perhaps something like subspace?)

Key Terms:
• 異界 (Ikai): “Another world” / alternate dimension

• 結界 (Kekkai): “Bound space” or “sealed-off space”

• 亜空間 (Akūkan): “subspace” or “Secondary space” a space that exists beneath or separate from the primary, regular space.


Interpretation of the Descriptions

1. A Different World : Naruto felt like the world he was in was entirely different, both atmospherically and spatially—strongly suggesting it is not on the same planet and atmosphere as his world.

2. Comparison to Kaguya’s Powers/ dimensions: He compares this place to Kaguya’s ability to send people to other worlds, again reinforcing the idea of completely separate atmospherical and planet space.

3. Comparing Kaguya Spaces to a sealed-off space and later to a Sub-Space: He further considers whether the space is a sealed space (barrier) or a sub-space, implying its distinctiveness from the main universe.


Did Kaguya Create Her Sub-Spaces to begin with, it is highly likely but lets see the evidences?

Another excerpt from the Boruto novel provides additional evidence:

それは、彼の構築した異世界の外にまで漏れ出しつつある。

“He was even draining the chakra that was beyond the alternate world he created.”
Sasuke could clearly see the stream with his Sharingan.

Key Terms:
• 異世界 (Isekai): “Alternate world”

• 構築した (Kōchiku shita): “Constructed” or “built”


This implies that at the very least Momoshiki created his own alternate dimension (sub-space), which is being compared to Kaguya’s dimensions. If Momoshiki built his own, it’s logical to assume that Kaguya likely did the same. Therefore, these are created sub-spaces, not different space-times in the same universe.

Supporting Canon Evidence

1. Obito’s Statement

Obito compares Kaguya’s dimensions to Kamui’s, calling them her own space-times. That wouldn’t make sense if they were just locations in the same solar system they’d be part of shared spacetime and based on the information we are given about the Kamui dimension it is not described as this .

2. Kaguya’s Claim

Kaguya refers to the dimensions as her “very own space-time,” a statement she never makes for the main world even though she was supposed to cultivate a god-tree on earth and she pretty much owned that region. Further implying ownership and artificial separation for her own dimensions.

3. Naruto and Sasuke’s Sensing Limitation

Naruto, who could sense Madara’s Limbo clones in another dimension, couldn’t sense Sasuke in the Sand dimension and vice versa, until both were in the Root Dimension. It makes no sense that Naruto who could sense beings across a different dimension somehow can't sense Sasuke in the same Solar system, this indicates a clear separation between these spaces and the fact that only the root space connects them. Obito also admit that these Spaces are vastly distant from each other which makes sense.

4. Databook References

All canon material, including databooks, refers to these spaces as “separate time-spaces” connected only through a root time-space. There’s no need for a root connection if they’re already part of the same Solar system.

5. Chakra Access Restrictions

Kaguya could only access shinobi chakra from the Root Dimension. If the six dimensions were just planets in the same solar system, she should have no issue connecting to that chakra from any of them.

6. Zetsu Immediately Knew About ETSO

Zetsu’s knowledge of ETSO and its functions suggests that he has encountered it before. It’s likely that Kaguya used ETSO to create each dimensions in the first place and With canonical evidence that Momoshiki created his own dimension. Applying Occam’s Razor, it seems more reasonable to conclude that ETSO, a proven technique capable of destroying and recreating an entire space, is responsible for creating the dimensions, rather than relying on speculative interpretations about the Sharingan’s involvement.

Conclusion: Separate Sub-Spaces, Not Shared Spacetime

From novelizations, databooks, and direct character statements, all evidence points to Kaguya’s dimensions being independently constructed sub-spaces, not locations within the same universe or spacetime as Naruto’s world. The references to barriers, subspaces, and alternate dimensions clearly reinforce this. They are created, self-contained spaces connected only through the Root Dimension confirming their nature as separate from the main universe and from each other.

The most direct visual representation of the canonical informations.

 

[karo_senpaii]

sorry I don't fully understand the op. Are you saying the realms is just a different solar system in the naruto universe or it's a different space time but all the realms are in that one single space time?

 

[Godernet]

I'll respond to all of these later today.

sorry I don't fully understand the op. Are you saying the realms is just a different solar system in the naruto universe or it's a different space time but all the realms are in that one single space time?

Not really. I just touched on how either could very well be true due to how little definitive information we have on the subject.

This thread is mainly just a cosmology analysis on Kaguya's Realm and what resides in it.

But frankly, I don't think either interpretation of how the space was created matters to the greater context of what I'm proposing, which is that Kaguya's realm is a space that can hold at least 6 planets, two moons, and potentially a star.

 

[Godernet]

Understanding the Kanji:

• 球 (kyū): Means “ball,” “sphere,” or “globe.” It does not specifically mean “planet.”

• 始球 (shikyū): This compound translates literally as “starting ball.”

• In Japanese culture, it’s most commonly associated with the first pitch in baseball or the opening ball in ritual.

• 空間 (kūkan): A standard Japanese term meaning “space” or “dimension,” which refers to either physical or metaphysical space.

Correct Breakdown and Interpretation:

The phrase 始球空間 (shikyū kūkan) breaks down as:
• 始球 (shikyū) = “starting ball”

• 空間 (kūkan) = “space”

So, the phrase is best interpreted as “Starting Ball Space”, or more figuratively as “Origin Space” or “Primordial Dimension” in a fantasy context. The term “starting ball” serves as a conceptual descriptor for the nature or role of the space, not its shape or that it represents a planet. There’s no direct implication that the dimension is spherical in form; rather, it’s more of a symbolic or thematic label tied to beginnings or origins.

Clarifying the Use of “Kyū” (球)

The Op argued that since “kyū” appears in words like 地球 (chikyū – Earth), it must mean “planet.” This is misleading and takes the kanji out of context.

Apotheosis69’s Clarification:

When I asked whether “kyū” refers to the shape of the space in this context, @Apotheosis69 clarified:



And I interpret “‘kyū’ instead of being used to describe Space, it is used to describe Planet instead; however, it can also be used to describe Space since the universe and space are usually depicted as being spherical in nature.”

This means that even in this interpretation, kyū would still refer to the shape of space, not the concept of a planet itself. As the word planet was never introduced in that sentence.

Common Usages of “Kyū” (球):
• 地球 (chikyū) – Earth (“earth sphere”)

• 野球 (yakyū) – Baseball (“field ball”)

• 球体 (kyūtai) – Sphere

• 球技 (kyūgi) – Ball sports

• 電球 (denkyū) – Lightbulb

• 球根 (kyūkon) – Plant bulb

In all of these, kyū retains its core meaning of “ball” or “sphere”, not “planet.”

I highkey think the portions talking about how the Kanji can be used alongside other Kanji to refer to things like sports terminology just isn't important here, when contextually we are talking about worlds, not literal sports balls or bulbs.

"kyū" does mean ball, sphere, or globe, but in this situation, talking specifically about celestial bodies, it can only mean one of three things: a Planet, a space, or a Universe.

And considering when SPCT is formed, we see the literal curvature of the Root World as it takes debris to create a moon, so we know the Root World isn't a universe unless you think SPCT is a multi-galactic-sized ball of rock.

And space is a general term that really has no meaning unless informed by other information.

So all things considered, we see the root world is shaped as a planet, so its just probably a planet.

The claim that we do not know the author’s intention on these dimensions or we don't really have any evidence on whether Kaguya’s spaces share the same spacetime continuum as Naruto’s world is a classic appeal to ignorance. As a verse, we are guided by canonical material, not speculation or fan consensus. Ignoring official content just to align with community wikis dilutes the integrity of the narrative. If we truly want to understand the author’s intention, we need to objectively examine what the story and its associated materials actually say and do so with an open-mind

Description of Kaguya’s Space in Boruto: Naruto the Movie Novel

In the novelization of Boruto: Naruto the Movie which we accept as canon on the wiki, we get a detailed description of the kind of space Naruto was taken into providing crucial insight into what these dimensions are:

Note- I asked for an official translation of the scans but this is an AI translation if anyone needs or want to translate the scans by themselves you can ask me for them .

ナルトは暗闇の中にいた。
木ノ葉隠れの里からさほど離れたとも思えぬが、見覚えのない場所、というよりは異界だった。
ひどく暗く、空が歪んでいる。この世の空間でないことは明白だった。
（カグヤも人を異界に飛ばす力を持っていた……結界、あるいは亜空間のようなものか？）

Translation:

Naruto was in darkness. It didn’t feel like he had been taken very far from the Hidden Leaf Village, but the place was unfamiliar no, more than that, it felt like an entirely different world.

It was oppressively dark, and the sky was warped.
(Kaguya also had the power to send people to other worlds… A barrier? Or perhaps something like subspace?)

Key Terms:
• 異界 (Ikai): “Another world” / alternate dimension

• 結界 (Kekkai): “Bound space” or “sealed-off space”

• 亜空間 (Akūkan): “subspace” or “Secondary space” a space that exists beneath or separate from the primary, regular space.


Interpretation of the Descriptions

1. A Different World : Naruto felt like the world he was in was entirely different, both atmospherically and spatially—strongly suggesting it is not on the same planet and atmosphere as his world.

2. Comparison to Kaguya’s Powers/ dimensions: He compares this place to Kaguya’s ability to send people to other worlds, again reinforcing the idea of completely separate atmospherical and planet space.

3. Comparing Kaguya Spaces to a sealed-off space and later to a Sub-Space: He further considers whether the space is a sealed space (barrier) or a sub-space, implying its distinctiveness from the main universe.


Did Kaguya Create Her Sub-Spaces to begin with, it is highly likely but lets see the evidences?

Another excerpt from the Boruto novel provides additional evidence:

それは、彼の構築した異世界の外にまで漏れ出しつつある。

“He was even draining the chakra that was beyond the alternate world he created.”
Sasuke could clearly see the stream with his Sharingan.

Key Terms:
• 異世界 (Isekai): “Alternate world”

• 構築した (Kōchiku shita): “Constructed” or “built”


This implies that at the very least Momoshiki created his own alternate dimension (sub-space), which is being compared to Kaguya’s dimensions. If Momoshiki built his own, it’s logical to assume that Kaguya likely did the same. Therefore, these are created sub-spaces, not different space-times in the same universe.

We can wait for official translations if you want, but I'll say this.

Ignoring the fact that the statement you're using seems like Naruto making a hypothesis for what it is, rather than defining it as something.

Most of these Kanji for other world, alternate world, other dimension, still fall in line with the interpretation that the world he's taken to is just another planet, except for one at first glance, subspace.

But Subspace on its own doesn't support your claim.

For one, the 亜空間 Kanji for Subspace does not have to mean separate timespace,

As planets themselves can be considered subspaces of 3D space or the broader universe. (not a mathematical subspace, just to be clear)

Not to mention fiction regularly uses Subspace and Hyperspace interchangeably, hyperspace is regularly used in sci-fi to just mean FTL interstellar travel.

Which the Otsutsuki and Sasuke regularly do with their spacetime abilities, and something Kaguya regularly employs with Amenominaka.

So it's quite literally not definitive on either side with that argument by itself.

Supporting Canon Evidence

1. Obito’s Statement

Obito compares Kaguya’s dimensions to Kamui’s, calling them her own space-times. That wouldn’t make sense if they were just locations in the same solar system they’d be part of shared spacetime and based on the information we are given about the Kamui dimension it is not described as this .

I already gave the official translation for that in the OP.

Obito does not call them Time-Spaces at all.

In the manga, when the English translation uses "Time-Space", it's likely a Viz mistranslation for the word "kūkan"

Which is interchangeably usable with world, dimension, or space.

Obito's quote translated: "It's... an unthinkably distant space."

2. Kaguya’s Claim

Kaguya refers to the dimensions as her “very own space-time,” a statement she never makes for the main world even though she was supposed to cultivate a god-tree on earth and she pretty much owned that region. Further implying ownership and artificial separation for her own dimensions.

Again, a mistranslation of the general kanji meaning "space"

Though you are welcome to get it translated and see what it says.

3. Naruto and Sasuke’s Sensing Limitation

Naruto, who could sense Madara’s Limbo clones in another dimension, couldn’t sense Sasuke in the Sand dimension and vice versa, until both were in the Root Dimension. It makes no sense that Naruto who could sense beings across a different dimension somehow can't sense Sasuke in the same Solar system, this indicates a clear separation between these spaces and the fact that only the root space connects them. Obito also admit that these Spaces are vastly distant from each other which makes sense.

Two things,

Firstly, Naruto and Sasuke could sense each other to varying degrees depending on their physical distance from each other; Naruto's clones just couldn't sense Sasuke.

Also, having senses that allow you to sense a being that is in front of you, but overlapping a parallel world, does not mean you have universal, multi-solar system, or even planetary senses on their own.

Naruto was also able to touch Limbo, even though it resides in a parallel world. Does that mean he can punch someone several galaxies away now?

Interdimensional range is not a natural progression of finite range in the sense that you can interact with anything, anywhere in the universe, as long as you have interdimensional range.

It's more of a lateral movement as far as range is concerned.

4. Databook References

All canon material, including databooks, refers to these spaces as “separate time-spaces” connected only through a root time-space. There’s no need for a root connection if they’re already part of the same Solar system.

Those two things aren't at all connected.

Most planets aren't connected to other planets in the solar systems they inhabit and only orbit their suns without ever having a means of interacting with each other.

Kaguya's root world's ability to connect them all is pretty irrelevant here because that doesn't prove or disprove planets, time-spaces, or even universes, as none of those concepts are traditionally connected anyways.

5. Chakra Access Restrictions

Kaguya could only access shinobi chakra from the Root Dimension. If the six dimensions were just planets in the same solar system, she should have no issue connecting to that chakra from any of them.

This also really doesn't work,

You could say the same thing if they were separate, spatially isolated dimensions or different universes.

What the worlds exist as compositionally has no bearing on the Root World's unique ability to gather chakra from the people gathered in IT.

6. Zetsu Immediately Knew About ETSO

Zetsu’s knowledge of ETSO and its functions suggests that he has encountered it before. It’s likely that Kaguya used ETSO to create each dimensions in the first place and With canonical evidence that Momoshiki created his own dimension. Applying Occam’s Razor, it seems more reasonable to conclude that ETSO, a proven technique capable of destroying and recreating an entire space, is responsible for creating the dimensions, rather than relying on speculative interpretations about the Sharingan’s involvement.

He has encountered ETSO before.

Because he's encountered a TSO before.

TSO shares all the properties of ETSO, just on a massively wider scale.

If a TSO were going to expand to the size of a dimension, which all of them, including Kakashi, believed would be the case, then he could logically deduce that it can and likely will have the same effects as a TSO will have, but in a smaller area.

Him having seen Hags, Hamura, Naruto, Madara, Obito, or Kaguya, use a TSO and acknowledged the properties they possess and could possess if expanded to a planetary to solar system wide scale makes sense.

He not only seemingly carries Kaguya's knowledge of things, but even got to watch Madara use TSO for a period of time and was even on Obito's body while Obito was using one.

Believing that he saw Kaguya make an ETSO in the past to create these dimensions is practically unfounded.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Ignoring the fact that the statement you're using seems like Naruto making a hypothesis for what it is, rather than defining it as something.

to play devil's advocate this version of naruto likely does have more knowledge on these things, given he shares and discuses them with sasuke, specifically in relation to the research of Danzo and the Nue dimension which was pivotal in sasuke finding the coordinates for kaguya's dimension.

now im not willing to die on the hill that naruto has a complex grasp of how these dimensions function (his naruto) but i do think his hypothesis carries more merit than kakashi and co's when they initially encountered kaguya, this alongside the fact that a case could be made that given the very specific usage of these terms that this an author insert to inform readers at least a baseline idea of the concept.

 

[Samlex1234]

I highkey think the portions talking about how the Kanji can be used alongside other Kanji to refer to things like sports terminology just isn't important here, when contextually we are talking about worlds, not literal sports balls or bulbs.

"kyū" does mean ball, sphere, or globe, but in this situation, talking specifically about celestial bodies, it can only mean one of three things: a Planet, a space, or a Universe.

And considering when SPCT is formed, we see the literal curvature of the Root World as it takes debris to create a moon, so we know the Root World isn't a universe unless you think SPCT is a multi-galactic-sized ball of rock.

And space is a general term that really has no meaning unless informed by other information.

So all things considered, we see the root world is shaped as a planet, so its just probably a planet.

We can wait for official translations if you want, but I'll say this.

Ignoring the fact that the statement you're using seems like Naruto making a hypothesis for what it is, rather than defining it as something.

Most of these Kanji for other world, alternate world, other dimension, still fall in line with the interpretation that the world he's taken to is just another planet, except for one at first glance, subspace.

But Subspace on its own doesn't support your claim.

For one, the 亜空間 Kanji for Subspace does not have to mean separate timespace,

As planets themselves can be considered subspaces of 3D space or the broader universe. (not a mathematical subspace, just to be clear)

Not to mention fiction regularly uses Subspace and Hyperspace interchangeably, hyperspace is regularly used in sci-fi to just mean FTL interstellar travel.

Which the Otsutsuki and Sasuke regularly do with their spacetime abilities, and something Kaguya regularly employs with Amenominaka.

So it's quite literally not definitive on either side with that argument by itself.

I already gave the official translation for that in the OP.

Obito does not call them Time-Spaces at all.

In the manga, when the English translation uses "Time-Space", it's likely a Viz mistranslation for the word "kūkan"

Which is interchangeably usable with world, dimension, or space.

Obito's quote translated: "It's... an unthinkably distant space."

Again, a mistranslation of the general kanji meaning "space"

Though you are welcome to get it translated and see what it says.

Two things,

Firstly, Naruto and Sasuke could sense each other to varying degrees depending on their physical distance from each other; Naruto's clones just couldn't sense Sasuke.

Also, having senses that allow you to sense a being that is in front of you, but overlapping a parallel world, does not mean you have universal, multi-solar system, or even planetary senses on their own.

Naruto was also able to touch Limbo, even though it resides in a parallel world. Does that mean he can punch someone several galaxies away now?

Interdimensional range is not a natural progression of finite range in the sense that you can interact with anything, anywhere in the universe, as long as you have interdimensional range.

It's more of a lateral movement as far as range is concerned.

Those two things aren't at all connected.

Most planets aren't connected to other planets in the solar systems they inhabit and only orbit their suns without ever having a means of interacting with each other.

Kaguya's root world's ability to connect them all is pretty irrelevant here because that doesn't prove or disprove planets, time-spaces, or even universes, as none of those concepts are traditionally connected anyways.

This also really doesn't work,

You could say the same thing if they were separate, spatially isolated dimensions or different universes.

What the worlds exist as compositionally has no bearing on the Root World's unique ability to gather chakra from the people gathered in IT.

He has encountered ETSO before.

Because he's encountered a TSO before.

TSO shares all the properties of ETSO, just on a massively wider scale.

If a TSO were going to expand to the size of a dimension, which all of them, including Kakashi, believed would be the case, then he could logically deduce that it can and likely will have the same effects as a TSO will have, but in a smaller area.

Him having seen Hags, Hamura, Naruto, Madara, Obito, or Kaguya, use a TSO and acknowledged the properties they possess and could possess if expanded to a planetary to solar system wide scale makes sense.

He not only seemingly carries Kaguya's knowledge of things, but even got to watch Madara use TSO for a period of time and was even on Obito's body while Obito was using one.

Believing that he saw Kaguya make an ETSO in the past to create these dimensions is practically unfounded.

You misinterpreted several of my arguments, but I’ll clarify again just to be clear. I’ll address the full discussion in detail later, but for now, I want to quickly note four things:

1. You keep repeating the same mistake

The breakdown of 始球空間 (shikyū kūkan) refers to:
• 始球 (shikyū) = “starting ball”

• 空間 (kūkan) = “space”

Not:

• 始 (shi) = “beginning”


• 球空間 (kyū kūkan) = “sphere space”

This is a straightforward compound reading and trying to split it otherwise distorts its actual structure. The whole point of the “first pitch” idea was to establish the context of an initial, beginning or originating space which was how the Official translation team translated it to begin with before you started breaking down each words into oblivion.


2. The size of Kaguya’s realm and SPCT:

You wrote:
“And considering when SPCT is formed, we see the literal curvature of the Root World as it takes debris to create a moon, so we know the Root World isn’t a universe unless you think SPCT is a multi-galactic-sized ball of rock.”

But I never claimed these spaces must be universal in size to begin with just that they are enough to contain their own respective moon and contain a sun.

You literally said this yourself :

“I’m proposing that Kaguya’s realm is a space that can hold at least 6 planets, two moons, and potentially a star.”

Brother this is you proposing a solar system-scale space, and one where the Root dimension planet coexists with other planets and moons in a shared Solar system. You even implied that the moon Naruto and Sasuke created was lifted beyond its Orbit in the main root planet high enough to be clearly visible from other planets in that same space, and Two moons now orbiting the entire 6 planets.

Note - By the way quick Fact, Based on what we know about gravitational binding energy (GBE) and the minimum stable distance between planets, what you’re describing about every planets sharing 2 moons makes absolutely nonsense scientifically.

3. On subspace and timespace:

You said:
“For one, the 亜空間 Kanji for Subspace does not have to mean separate timespace.”

I never once directly claimed that “subspace” always means “separate timespace.”

What I said was:
“Therefore, these are created sub-spaces, not different space-times in the same universe.”

That’s very different. You’re trying to assign a claim I never made.

Also, you conveniently ignored the fact that Momoshiki is explicitly stated to have created his own subspace, which supports the idea that it’s a new, separate space, not originally part of the existing world and this was my final conclusion that Naruto hypothesis where indeed right from the author's direct confirmation. Spoiler alert: Momoshiki’s dimension has been shown to have a starry sky, implying at the very least 4-A Subspace in size.

4. On the translation of “space-time” and the concept of dimension:

You keep mentioning that “space-time” is probably a mistranslation of 空間 (kūkan) and that it’s interchangeable with “world,” “dimension,” or “space.”

You say this like it helps your argument, no it doesn’t. Space is a dimensional construct. It refers to the length, width, and height of a region, and time typically coexists with it. Unless it is explicitly stated that time does not exist in a given realm, then that dimension by definition is a space-time construct.

In fact, we do have direct evidence of a realm in the Naruto verse where time does not exist:



時の止まった異空間
“An alternate space where time is stopped.”

So unless a space is described like this, we can reasonably assume time exists in those dimensions especially if people can move and interact with it.

Finally, regarding the claim below:
“Which is interchangeably usable with world, dimension, or space.”

Sekai typically translates to “world,” and it can be used to describe the worlds of separate space-times and can refer to dimensions or realms of any size.
Importantly, not all “worlds” in fiction are universal in size yet they’re still be called Isekai. So it’s entirely valid to use it to refer to large-scale dimensions, even if they aren’t universal in scope.

Thus, Kukan in the context of Kaguya worlds indeed qualifies as separate space-times under standard definitions of Kukan.

 

[BlackeJan]

Damn everyone be hatin on Kaguya nowadays

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Spoiler: Do Kaguya's worlds exist in a single space?

To start us off, we have a few funny "coincidences"

By the time of Boruto, 14 or so years after the original story, Kaguya's Ice Dimension has two moons, something that was not the case in the original series.

Similarly, we see that in the Desert World, there was no moon in the Naruto series, but by the time of Boruto, it had one.

So why is there a new celestial body in Kaguya's Realm that is only present in the Boruto series, after only 14ish years have passed in the original series?

And yes, you guessed it, the answer was that Naruto and Sasuke, by the end of their fight with Kaguya, used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei to seal her away.

Replicating the previous feat of Hagaromo and Hamura Otsutsuki, creating the moon of Earth.

In my view, the original poster’s argument leans more heavily on subjective analysis than on solid, objective foundations. At this point, I suspect the debate will drift away from what’s narratively concrete and instead revolve around which interpretation feels more or less plausible.

For instance, when one assumes that:

1. The absence of celestial bodies in Boruto — as well as in Naruto — is due to them being part of Kaguya’s Chibaku Tensei seal, we're entering a speculative space filled with assumptions and interpretive leaps.

While not entirely unfounded, this line of reasoning doesn’t strike me as the most sensible when we consider how fiction, particularly visual storytelling, typically works. A far more grounded explanation would be that the creators simply chose not to depict those celestial bodies for artistic, narrative, or even practical visual reasons — something that’s hardly unusual in fictional works.

Moreover, to assume that the moon created by Naruto and Sasuke in Kaguya’s dimension is the same one visible from illustrations of other “planets” introduces a number of inconsistencies:

a) For one, the distance between these so-called “planets” would have to be remarkably short, to the point where a moon from one could be clearly visible from another without the aid of any special tools. From a physical standpoint, such proximity is implausible — the gravitational pull would cause them to collapse into each other.

Alternatively, we’d have to accept b) that the moon is unusually massive, large enough to be seen across planetary distances — which, again, creates its own set of problems, as its gravitational influence would be catastrophic if it were truly that size or mass.

From a narrative perspective, it also feels overly meticulous to assume that the authors intended the moons to be drawn with such a precise, lore-driven purpose. It’s unlikely they were that concerned with such minute details, especially in a medium where visual shorthand and stylistic choices often take precedence over astrophysical consistency.

Spoiler: Every time Kaguya's Dimensions are referenced

So to make sure I covered all bases, myself and a few others went out and looked at how Kaguya's Dimensions are referred to in the manga by the characters (based on their various degrees of understanding) as well as the Databooks.

This section will largely contextualize how Kaguya's dimensions are talked about to inform the next section.

• Kakashi, having initially believed this world to be genjutsu, due to the heat produced by lava and likely his Sharingan's perception abilities, he instead came to the conclusion that Kaguya had brought them to an Alternate Dimension.
• The next time it is brought up is when Naruto and Sasuke believe to have cornered Kaguya and are about to attempt to seal her, Kaguya then teleports them to the Ice World, where Sasuke remarks that Kaguya has an ability to move between Spaces.
• Obito sees Kaguya's portal, remarks to himself that the portal Kaguya uses is a type of Time-Space, then makes the assertion that Sasuke, who was snatched by Kaguya earlier, is in another Dimension.
• Obito then states that he believes, due to Kaguya having emerged from a different time space, her Aminominaka should be compatible with his own space-time ninjutsu ability Kamui, and that maybe he can bring him back to this dimension.
• Obito then goes on to say that it will require an enormous amount of Chakra due to it not being his own Time-Space.
• Kaguya refers to the area they are in as her Time-Space.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Dimension as a "Root Time-Space that directly connects to the other five Time-Spaces."
• Zetsu remarks that Kaguya consumes a huge amount of chakra whenever changing the Time-Space of the World.
• While Naruto holds off Kaguya, Obito links his Kamui to Kaguya's Space-Time Portal to teleport to the world Kaguya fled to.
• Obito calls Kaguya's "Time-Space" incredibly vast. (Wiki Translation by SeijiSetto)
• Hiruzen, reiterating what Hagaromo told them, calls Kaguya's Dimension an Alternate Time-Space.
• Zetsu talking about the Root Time-Space again (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)
• An example of interchangable referencing via Sakura calling Kaguya's Root Dimension a Space while Kakashi calls it a World.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Time Space as Kaguya's exclusive domain and then calls ETSO the start of a new Time-Space.
• Aminominaka Databook Entry (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)

Ok

Spoiler: What does the Context give us?

Well, first I will say that I think it is very apparent that in the Naruto series, World, Alternate Dimension, Time-Space, and Space are all interchangably used to refer to the various different abilities that allow one to move to a location that is not the planet Earth that they know.

In just this fight alone, we are given over a dozen instances of Kaguya's dimensions being directly addressed with different terminology that can lead to wildly different implications depending on the context they are used in.

However, with some context, some of this becomes less foggy,

For one, the Japanese Kanji, 空間 or "kūkan" that is often used for her Dimensions/Spaces can often be used to interchangeably mean any of the words used to describe Kaguya's Dimensions that I've listed above.

Meaning that the Viz translations will often take some creative liberties based on their interpretation of what each scene is trying to portray.

What is apparent at the very least is that it's referring to a world that isn't Earth.

Also, when Zetsu is referring to the Root Dimension in Kanji, he says 始球空間 or Shikyū kūkan.

When translated by our own Apotheosis69 here, this was effectively translated to mean,

• "始 shi" means a beginning or the first of something.
• "球 kyū" is a ball/orb mainly for like a globe/planet.

So closer to something along the lines of "beginning globe" or "primary planet".

And with the previous context of kūkan, we know that the translation is roughly "Primary planet space".

This same way of referring to the Root Dimension was reiterated by Zetsu again later, translated by Apotheosis69 here

Zetsu is the most knowledgeable person on the origins of these six worlds and the mechanics of Kaguya's Aminominaka, besides Kaguya herself.

For him to refer to these worlds as essentially globes or planets is far more telling than the various hypotheses of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, or Kakashi, who can all only infer what they are based on their observations.

Obito, who is actively trying to link his Space-Time Ninjutsu to Kaguya's realms, mentions how vast her space is.

This statement is translated by our very own SeijiSetto, here

With the translation implying a vast physical distance from what Obito is contextually referring to as the entirety of Kaguya's Space, as he is actively going through every world to find Sasuke.

I side with Samlex's thoughts here.

2) You’ve interpreted the terms 始 (shi) + 球 (kyū) to mean something along the lines of “origin orb” or “beginning sphere,” presumably to suggest a planetary body. However, this interpretation — rather than strengthening your argument — actually leans further into speculation. It becomes even more interpretative when you introduce the term 空間 (kūkan) to argue that the phrase refers to a “space of the primary planet.” Frankly, that feels like a rather strained attempt to make the terminology support your position.

Let’s take a step back: that’s far from being the most grounded or natural reading. If we break the term 始球空間 (Shikyū Kūkan) down:

• 始 (shi) – “beginning,” “origin.”
• 球 (kyū) – “sphere,” “orb,” “globe.”
• 空間 (kūkan) – “space,” “dimension,” “interval.”

Then, an alternative — and arguably more organic — interpretation could be:

• “Primordial sphere space”
• “Dimension of the original orb”

This could quite reasonably be understood as the "original dimension from which all else emerged" — which, contextually, aligns quite well with what we see in the narrative. Kaguya is portrayed as preparing to create something from within that space — which Zetsu refers to as the origin point of all dimensions.

In that light, the idea of “space of the primary planet” feels less convincing, especially considering how often the narrative emphasizes alternate dimensions rather than other planets in distant solar systems.

So, from where I stand, the more consistent and narratively coherent interpretation is that Kaguya’s “worlds” are alternative space-time realities — not literal planets scattered across the same physical universe.

Spoiler: What is Kaguya's Time-Space?

Well, that's just the thing, there is nothing in the Naruto series that explains how this timespace came to be.

For all we know, when she awakened the Sharinnegan, she could have been granted a solar system-sized world as a canvas, like how Obito was given the Kamui Dimension when his Mangekyo Sharingan awakened. And later turned that canvas into a plane of Six Worlds.

Or she could have flown out into deep space and linked her Space-Time Ninjutsu to a selection of planets that she took over, as is the Otsutsuki way.

However, how it came to be doesn't change what we know that it is.

What we do know is that in every bit of material we have on the subject, it is interchangeably referred to as a world, space, time-space, or an Alternate Dimension.

With Obito implying physical distance between the space of an overall larger space.

With Zetsu directly referring to the Root Dimension in a way that suggests Globe or Planet.

With enough rock on just the Root Dimension to create an entire moon.

And with said moon being visible from the two worlds of Kaguya, we see Post-Naruto, showing us that they at least occupy the same visually distinguishable space.

Given all of that context in mind, I think there is more than enough evidence to say that Kaguya's Time-Space in its totality is at least a vast plane comprised of Six Worlds and, as of the Boruto Era, a moon.

Let’s break this down. First of all, the comparison with Obito doesn’t seem to hold very well. The Kamui Dimension was not “given” to him — what happens is that his Mangekyō Sharingan grants him access to that specific dimension through an interdimensional teleportation ability. He’s connected to that space, but that doesn’t necessarily imply literal ownership.

In Kaguya’s case, however, there’s an important distinction: the databooks themselves make it clear that her technique is not just about moving between dimensions, but rather about manipulating the dimension itself — shifting it along with her. In other words, there’s a much broader level of control than simply accessing a preexisting space.

Secondly, even if, in theory, she didn’t create that dimension but instead took or received it somehow, that wouldn’t automatically place it within the conventional universe. After all, the Ōtsutsuki themselves are consistently portrayed as traveling from one space-time to another through interdimensional portals — which shows that they operate beyond the ordinary space-time continuum.

So, just as one could imagine that Kaguya merely traveled a physical distance to this place within a single space-time and then took over an already existing territory, it is equally plausible — and, frankly, simpler — to assume that she instead traveled to a different space-time (thanks to her space-time portals) and, upon arriving in front of one or more realms, decided to take possession of them. Especially considering Hagoromo’s statement about them being special places, and the fact that her narrative intent was precisely to generate something new from that point on.

Moreover, combined with the fact that she herself states that the space-time belongs to her, it becomes easier to accept this version over the idea that she didn’t create it — only tamed it.

Spoiler: The Sun tho

Yeah...here's where we get to the controversial part of the thread.

If we accept that Kaguya's planets exist in a single space, just very, very far away from each other, as most planets are.

Then that leaves us with little to no evidence that each realm is spatially separated from each other, and to bring it a notch further, no proof that what we see beyond the six worlds encompasses Kaguya's space.

To that, I'm sure many would point to how these worlds experience natural phenomena such as heat and gravity from a star the same way you would expect any planet to.

However, if Kaguya's realm can't be definitively defined as entirely comprised of things that she created or one spatiotemportally isolated from the rest of the universe, not only would it still feel the effects of a star regardless of if the star was inside of the realm or not, but that leaves us with no true way of defining its borders to stretch beyond the six planets that we know exist inside of it.

The closest thing I found to potential for Kaguya's Realm being spatially isolated was in Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 54.

When Kinshiki encountered Sasuke inside Kaguya's Ice World, his first response was, "I didn't think that anyone else could enter this place besides us."

However IMO, that's a lot to imply from one vague interaction, and this could also just be explained away if Kaguya's world was in a distant part of remote space not easily traveled to.

Which wouldn't be a strange conclusion to draw, considering the Otsutsuki are the only spacefaring, pseudo-immortal race we know of in the Naruto Cosmos, and it even takes them a while to get around the universe without having already established a connection to their space-time abilities.

Frankly, I believe the Sun residing in Kaguya's Realm is a complex topic that is in no way a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

But at the same time one could argue it doesn't have the necessary evidence to make it the default assumption, all things considered.

I do know that the default assumption is that, typically, a star is believed to reside in the dimension it is shown in unless proven otherwise.

So if Staff or our Standards dictate that we treat this case a certain way, or someone brings up evidence that would support it, I don't mind the alternative of the Star being assumed to reside in Kaguya's Realm.

Frankly, I see no reason to raise objections at this point. It seems to me that you're simply presenting your own interpretation as the most plausible — and that’s perfectly fine, since, in the end, this essentially becomes a debate over whether that star is, in fact, located within the dimension in question or not.

Naturally, if Kaguya’s realms are to be downgraded to mere planets, then there really isn’t much to discuss. However, it’s precisely because I strongly disagree with that premise that I chose to take part in this discussion — I firmly believe we’re dealing with domains that operate under their own space-time, separate from the conventional universe where ordinary celestial bodies reside.

So, this is my position: Kaguya’s realms ≠ the main universe.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

To be frank with you, the first part of the OP, showing extremely limited POVs to point out how there are no moons in the backgrounds of certain shots, is quite weak and doesn't really hold well. Much less, comparing actual night time to a seemingly day time in the Ice dimension to prove there is only one moon.

I don't think it's Kishi's intent for the moon Sasuke and Naruto created to be the same moon as the one we see in the desert dimension and the Ice dimension. And I'm not very well-informed about celestial bodies, but isn't it extremely improbable for all of these planets to coexist as planets orbiting the same star due to physical inconsistency (like lava and ice planets having similar lighting, air, and gravity)?

 

[karo_senpaii]

I'll respond to all of these later today.

Not really. I just touched on how either could very well be true due to how little definitive information we have on the subject.

This thread is mainly just a cosmology analysis on Kaguya's Realm and what resides in it.

But frankly, I don't think either interpretation of how the space was created matters to the greater context of what I'm proposing, which is that Kaguya's realm is a space that can hold at least 6 planets, two moons, and potentially a star.

I have my reason for asking this . If the planets are in the same universe but just distant and their own solar system, then a few problems arise.
In the boruto anime when we see kinshiki talk about tears in kaguya world it immediately implies 2 things
a. The clan is aware of her domain
b. It was not some random place claimed by her
Bearing in mind this is a clan that respects power and power alone for a superior to her " momo" to acknowledge that it's in fact her world, I'm of the opinion the domain was a place strictly belonging to her via being created or materialised by her rinnesharingan just like the kamui dimension.

My second issue is with the way amenominaka works. Also in the boruto anime we see right after kinshiki discovers the tears they both go to investigate immediately, with urashiki following shortly. Now momo and kin were not able to locate earth itself but required help from urashiki and via toneri we know there was a time urashiki entered the constellation. This means even while they had located kaguya's world they were still outside the constellation. That is a ridiculous distance and it would mean kaguya forcefully dragged them across over a thousand light years and was completely fine yet gassing out dragging them across a few million miles if all the planets are in the same system.

Listen y'all, I know 90% of you are tired of this topic, and frankly, I am too.

However, after having a long, long, long discussion about this off-site, a few conclusions have been drawn about this topic that make it honestly far more interesting but also far more nuanced than how we've handled it in the past (at least to my knowledge)

So please bear with me while I try to make all this information as comprehensive as possible, because of how controversial all of us know this topic is.

This will be the first part of a two or potentially three-part revision defining what we know about Kaguya's Dimensions, the mechanics of her Aminominaka, and the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb.

I'd also like to thank @Shadowbokunohero, @Arc7Kuroi, and @KingTempest for helping to lay out the groundwork for this thread.

As well as any of the supporters in the previous thread who made good points, and remained patient with us as we navigated this complicated topic once again.

Now then, let's get started,

Spoiler: Do Kaguya's worlds exist in a single space?

To start us off, we have a few funny "coincidences"

By the time of Boruto, 14 or so years after the original story, Kaguya's Ice Dimension has two moons, something that was not the case in the original series.

Similarly, we see that in the Desert World, there was no moon in the Naruto series, but by the time of Boruto, it had one.

So why is there a new celestial body in Kaguya's Realm that is only present in the Boruto series, after only 14ish years have passed in the original series?

And yes, you guessed it, the answer was that Naruto and Sasuke, by the end of their fight with Kaguya, used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei to seal her away.

Replicating the previous feat of Hagaromo and Hamura Otsutsuki, creating the moon of Earth.

Spoiler: Every time Kaguya's Dimensions are referenced

So to make sure I covered all bases, myself and a few others went out and looked at how Kaguya's Dimensions are referred to in the manga by the characters (based on their various degrees of understanding) as well as the Databooks.

This section will largely contextualize how Kaguya's dimensions are talked about to inform the next section.

• Kakashi, having initially believed this world to be genjutsu, due to the heat produced by lava and likely his Sharingan's perception abilities, he instead came to the conclusion that Kaguya had brought them to an Alternate Dimension.
• The next time it is brought up is when Naruto and Sasuke believe to have cornered Kaguya and are about to attempt to seal her, Kaguya then teleports them to the Ice World, where Sasuke remarks that Kaguya has an ability to move between Spaces.
• Obito sees Kaguya's portal, remarks to himself that the portal Kaguya uses is a type of Time-Space, then makes the assertion that Sasuke, who was snatched by Kaguya earlier, is in another Dimension.
• Obito then states that he believes, due to Kaguya having emerged from a different time space, her Aminominaka should be compatible with his own space-time ninjutsu ability Kamui, and that maybe he can bring him back to this dimension.
• Obito then goes on to say that it will require an enormous amount of Chakra due to it not being his own Time-Space.
• Kaguya refers to the area they are in as her Time-Space.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Dimension as a "Root Time-Space that directly connects to the other five Time-Spaces."
• Zetsu remarks that Kaguya consumes a huge amount of chakra whenever changing the Time-Space of the World.
• While Naruto holds off Kaguya, Obito links his Kamui to Kaguya's Space-Time Portal to teleport to the world Kaguya fled to.
• Obito calls Kaguya's "Time-Space" incredibly vast. (Wiki Translation by SeijiSetto)
• Hiruzen, reiterating what Hagaromo told them, calls Kaguya's Dimension an Alternate Time-Space.
• Zetsu talking about the Root Time-Space again (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)
• An example of interchangable referencing via Sakura calling Kaguya's Root Dimension a Space while Kakashi calls it a World.
• Zetsu refers to the Root Time Space as Kaguya's exclusive domain and then calls ETSO the start of a new Time-Space.
• Aminominaka Databook Entry (Wiki Translation by Apotheosis69)

Spoiler: What does the Context give us?

Well, first I will say that I think it is very apparent that in the Naruto series, World, Alternate Dimension, Time-Space, and Space are all interchangably used to refer to the various different abilities that allow one to move to a location that is not the planet Earth that they know.

In just this fight alone, we are given over a dozen instances of Kaguya's dimensions being directly addressed with different terminology that can lead to wildly different implications depending on the context they are used in.

However, with some context, some of this becomes less foggy,

For one, the Japanese Kanji, 空間 or "kūkan" that is often used for her Dimensions/Spaces can often be used to interchangeably mean any of the words used to describe Kaguya's Dimensions that I've listed above.

Meaning that the Viz translations will often take some creative liberties based on their interpretation of what each scene is trying to portray.

What is apparent at the very least is that it's referring to a world that isn't Earth.

Also, when Zetsu is referring to the Root Dimension in Kanji, he says 始球空間 or Shikyū kūkan.

When translated by our own Apotheosis69 here, this was effectively translated to mean,

• "始 shi" means a beginning or the first of something.
• "球 kyū" is a ball/orb mainly for like a globe/planet.

So closer to something along the lines of "beginning globe" or "primary planet".

And with the previous context of kūkan, we know that the translation is roughly "Primary planet space".

This same way of referring to the Root Dimension was reiterated by Zetsu again later, translated by Apotheosis69 here

Zetsu is the most knowledgeable person on the origins of these six worlds and the mechanics of Kaguya's Aminominaka, besides Kaguya herself.

For him to refer to these worlds as essentially globes or planets is far more telling than the various hypotheses of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, or Kakashi, who can all only infer what they are based on their observations.

Obito, who is actively trying to link his Space-Time Ninjutsu to Kaguya's realms, mentions how vast her space is.

This statement is translated by our very own SeijiSetto, here

With the translation implying a vast physical distance from what Obito is contextually referring to as the entirety of Kaguya's Space, as he is actively going through every world to find Sasuke.

Spoiler: What is Kaguya's Time-Space?

Well, that's just the thing, there is nothing in the Naruto series that explains how this timespace came to be.

For all we know, when she awakened the Sharinnegan, she could have been granted a solar system-sized world as a canvas, like how Obito was given the Kamui Dimension when his Mangekyo Sharingan awakened. And later turned that canvas into a plane of Six Worlds.

Or she could have flown out into deep space and linked her Space-Time Ninjutsu to a selection of planets that she took over, as is the Otsutsuki way.

However, how it came to be doesn't change what we know that it is.

What we do know is that in every bit of material we have on the subject, it is interchangeably referred to as a world, space, time-space, or an Alternate Dimension.

With Obito implying physical distance between the space of an overall larger space.

With Zetsu directly referring to the Root Dimension in a way that suggests Globe or Planet.

With enough rock on just the Root Dimension to create an entire moon.

And with said moon being visible from the two worlds of Kaguya, we see Post-Naruto, showing us that they at least occupy the same visually distinguishable space.

Given all of that context in mind, I think there is more than enough evidence to say that Kaguya's Time-Space in its totality is at least a vast plane comprised of Six Worlds and, as of the Boruto Era, a moon.

Spoiler: The Sun tho

Yeah...here's where we get to the controversial part of the thread.

If we accept that Kaguya's planets exist in a single space, just very, very far away from each other, as most planets are.

Then that leaves us with little to no evidence that each realm is spatially separated from each other, and to bring it a notch further, no proof that what we see beyond the six worlds encompasses Kaguya's space.

To that, I'm sure many would point to how these worlds experience natural phenomena such as heat and gravity from a star the same way you would expect any planet to.

However, if Kaguya's realm can't be definitively defined as entirely comprised of things that she created or one spatiotemportally isolated from the rest of the universe, not only would it still feel the effects of a star regardless of if the star was inside of the realm or not, but that leaves us with no true way of defining its borders to stretch beyond the six planets that we know exist inside of it.

The closest thing I found to potential for Kaguya's Realm being spatially isolated was in Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 54.

When Kinshiki encountered Sasuke inside Kaguya's Ice World, his first response was, "I didn't think that anyone else could enter this place besides us."

However IMO, that's a lot to imply from one vague interaction, and this could also just be explained away if Kaguya's world was in a distant part of remote space not easily traveled to.

Which wouldn't be a strange conclusion to draw, considering the Otsutsuki are the only spacefaring, pseudo-immortal race we know of in the Naruto Cosmos, and it even takes them a while to get around the universe without having already established a connection to their space-time abilities.

Frankly, I believe the Sun residing in Kaguya's Realm is a complex topic that is in no way a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

But at the same time one could argue it doesn't have the necessary evidence to make it the default assumption, all things considered.

I do know that the default assumption is that, typically, a star is believed to reside in the dimension it is shown in unless proven otherwise.

So if Staff or our Standards dictate that we treat this case a certain way, or someone brings up evidence that would support it, I don't mind the alternative of the Star being assumed to reside in Kaguya's Realm.

Spoiler: The Short Version

Kaguya's "Time-Space" is one large space with enough area to fit at least 6 planets and a moon because:

• We see celestial bodies created from the debris of one of the worlds in two of the other worlds.
• Zetsu, when defining one of the six worlds, does so in a way that implies they are globes or planets.
• Obito confirms that there is physical distance between the worlds in what he implies to be a single Time-Space.
• One of these worlds was shown capable of producing enough rock to create a moon, with the world's curvature shown in the creation of the moon, supporting the interpretation that these are globes or planets.

The Star might not definitively be in the Realm because:

• There is no evidence of the Realm being created by Kaguya or spatially isolated from the rest of the universe to imply things like gravity or heat could only apply if a star were in the realm (heavily dependent on if staff believes this fits with our standards for stars in a pocket dimension or not.)

Well, that pretty much wraps up everything I wanted to say.

I'll leave y'all to your votes, and yeah, if this is passed, the next thread will cover the ramifications this could potentially have for the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb, and the potential avenues we have to go from here.

Maybe even a cosmology CRT in the future because it's definitely starting to look more and more like we need one.

Thank you especially to all the people who have participated in these last several threads, y'all are a patient bunch.

And as always, let's keep it civil.

Votes

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

My main issue here as someone already pointed out is that for a moon of another planet to be visible from like earth for example then the distance has to be ridiculously low, we're talking under a million miles which on it's own brings so much issues as it would distabilize both planets if they are that close. Not just that, are we forgetting there is a gravity dimension? Humans alone can manage to survive around 5 times earth gravity for really short burst yet ninjas who are superhumans and far beyond not to mention the literal God tiers could barely move. If a planet like that is in such close proximity, then it should in theory destroy the other planets.
My final point is that logically as the planets are it is actually impossible for them to be naturally occurring. An ice world and a lava world sharing a star? possible, extremely rare but possible but for this to even happen the lava world has to be extremely close to the star and the ice world billions of miles away which would deviate from what you are proposing as they should be close enough for moons to be seen that clearly. Also planets in the same system typically share similarities. For one they interact gravitationally which shapes their movement (this would result in the gravity world just ending the rest) among others. You cannot have the most unrealistic planets sharing a system as kaguya's worlds, there is no way that kind of system is naturally occurring.



Would have wanted to write much more but my pc is bad.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Woulda have gone more in depth if I didn't come down with a fever but this will have to do for now

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The Ōtsutsuki clan possesses the innate ability to transport themselves and others into entirely different dimensions, not merely distant locations within the same universe.

hit the image limit on this lololol

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1358553078743175258/1359257017801248778/IMG_7332.png?ex=67f77afe&is=67f6297e&hm=b7728de2ce1498e590ea7496a1336eb952be8f644eacced3e0db360df975b10c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1199&height=1665

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ボルトが「模」の力でイッシキを異空 間へ押し込み、最終決戦を始める･･･!!
Bolt uses his "model" power to push Isshiki into the alternate dimension, starting the final battle.

木ノ葉を守るため･･･3人は異空間で決戦に臨む!!
To protect the Hidden Leaf, the three will have a final battle in the alternate dimension.

These spaces—often referred to as 異空間 (ikūkan)—are consistently described throughout the series as separate dimensions or unusual spaces that are only accessible through space-time ninjutsu (this is repeated like a billion times in the series). Unlike distant celestial locations in the universe that you can still travel to despite being a tedious process, these dimensions are completely inaccessible without the use of space-time ninjutsu. This distinction alone is critical: it confirms that these are not locations within our universe, but other-dimensional realms.
This also extends to Kaguya’s worlds as the scan shared by the OP shows, the Ōtsutsuki duo implies that the dimension in question (Kaguya Ice Dimension Castle) can only be entered by those individuals who possess space time ninjutsu. Keyword is “Enter” not “reach” or “get to”, an explicit distinction between access and reach. Sasuke’s Rinnegan powers are used to enter these dimensions, reinforcing the concept that these locations are not traditional floating planetary bodies, but entirely separate spatial constructs requiring the rift ability


Furthermore, the term 異空間 (ikūkan) meaning unusual space; other dimension is consistently used in both the manga and official descriptions to denote these realms.

Naruto's Story | Boruto's Story​

This also goes for the official website, when describing this same scene that I listed at the start aka boruto and co travelling to another dimension, if you look at the upper right corner the site is in it's japanese version (raws) but you'll still see the English and it says Isshiki is taken to another dimension, the source material is in english and it’s telling you they're in another dimension, paired with the word Ikukan. So it cannot be confused to say Isshiki is taken to another planet.

[Boruto NNG #37]
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For one of the dimensions , Jigen states that it is a world where Konoha does not exist, this is not something you can apply to other planets in the universe, when naruto and co visited the moon in the last, a different celestial body, konoha still existed, you could still go back to it and reach konoha again, being far away from konoha does not stop it from existing, However in the new dimension konoha is wholly absent, heavily implying that it is in fact another dimension existing outside the universe (this uses Ikukan too iirc)

Boruto Ninjutsu Directory from September Issue of Saikyou Jump (8/2)
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Raw japanese:
次元を超えた最強の瞳術!!

Translation:
"The strongest dōjutsu that transcends dimensions!!"

Jigen: 次元 = Dimension

this is in reference to how he’s able to master his ability to traverse through the different dimensions, most notably kaguyas realms

[Naruto - The Seventh Hokage And The Scarlet Spring Chapter 8]​

(ability described as a dimension hopper = said ability is the only way to reach x destination = the destination is another dimension)

Additionally, as seen above we have multiple other sources using the word 次元 (jigen)—the direct scientific word for "dimension"—when referencing these same spaces. Unlike the interpretive terms it straight up means dimension. Unambiguously signifying a dimension. Similarly, Kara’s base is referred to as an ikūkan, and then later described as a Jigen : v

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Boruto VJump Database Magazine Scan
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次元を揺るがす 大激戦!!
A fierce battle that will shake the dimensions!!

次元 = Dimension

This reinforces that when the Naruto/Boruto series uses the term ikūkan, it is referring to other dimensions, not worlds or planets. strengthening the internal consistency of this term. [Text from Page Title]
Some folks might try to goon with Ikukan which is why I wanted to make the connection and throw off any attempts at that kind of claim, obviously I do not wish to act like I am a pro at this language but based on what I've observed this makes the most sense as both Ikukan and Jigen just say dimension and that's it.


The Key takeaway from this all is that Ikukan means other space/ different space = other dimension, spaces = the spatial dimensions. Kaguya also got like 3+ statements (she has more than that but i dont have the energy to be more expansive) of stating her realms are in another dimension with the same word (Ikukan)

[Birthday Column] October 10th is the birthday of Uzumaki Naruto!​

1. Team 7 and Obito are sent to another dimension by Kaguya Otsutsuki
2. Naruto and his friends have a hard time against Kaguya, who can freely switch between different dimensions
3. The battlefield shifts to another dimension, marking the beginning of the final battle.

[NARUTO 20th Anniversary Column]​

• Kaguya transports Team 7 and Obito to an alternate dimension with a volcanic landscape and begins her mission to unify all chakra within herself once more!!
• Naruto and the others hurry to find Sasuke, the only one isolated in a separate dimension.
• Naruto manages to enter the Root Time-Space connected to Kaguya's other dimensions, including the plane holding Sasuke!
• Obito pushes himself to the limit to open dimensional doors in search of Sasuke, checking Kaguya's alternate time-spaces
• But just when the five members of their group are reunited, Kaguya summons yet another dimension.

So with all this I hope I’ve answered OP’s question regarding if the collective 6 domains of hers are spatially separated from the rest of the universe and I firmly believe it’s a definitively yes.

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I know the main question being asked is regarding the star’s inclusion but I also wanted to touch on the individual realms as I still disagree with them individually being planets

Naruto Jin No Sho

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時空を超えて乱れ飛ぶ 品と共にち果てよ
Be gone with the pieces flying beyond time and space

異空間を通して、飛び道具として骨を飛ばすことも可能。
It is also possible to fire bones as projectiles through a different dimension.

NARUTO CHAPTER 683

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(The translation here is not necessarily incorrect, it really does say space AND time in raws if anyone wishes to check, key takeaway is going from one to another is called moving through different space times)

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As substantiated by the scan and translations above, moving from one of her worlds to another is stated to be moving into a different time and space , the second line uses the same Ikukan when saying these are moving through different dimensions and I have established prior that with the context of narutoverse they are indeed differing dimensions

The Kamui and Daikokuten dimensions also use similar wording as the other dimensions (same word as the previous dimensions aka Ikukan), if one believes that these worlds are planets in the universe you'd be arguing there is one planet randomly floating in the universe where time flow is stopped for some odd reason and another one that’s weirdly paralleling naruto’s earth which creates unneeded inconsistencies. Not only can Isshiki not stop time randomly, even if he could the realm's state of "stopped time" would cease to exist if he was causing the time flow to be frozen because he’s dead and despite that Kawaki was still using that dimension and withdrawing items from there like nothing happened, so any interpretation other than what VIZ consistently translated is just going to headcanon route the more and more you try to justify it

When referring to another planet 別の星（betsu no hoshi）​

Invaders from another planet 他所の星（yoso no hoshi）

そして喰らい尽くせ そして くらい つくせ
“And then, devour everything…”

この宇宙に浮かぶ数多の星々の命を… この うちゅう に うかぶ あまた の ほしぼし の いのち を…
“The lives of the countless planets drifting in this universe…”

絶えず進化を続けろ… たえず しんか を つづけろ…
“Continue to evolve without end…”

比類なき唯一無二の存在… ひるいなき ゆいいつ むに の そんざい…
“A peerless, one-of-a-kind existence…”

In contrast, whenever the Naruto series references actual planets or celestial bodies, it uses specific, unambiguous terminology. In The Last: Naruto the Movie, the Earth is called Earth and the Moon is referred to directly as the Moon, never as “space”. Likewise, in Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, when the Ōtsutsuki clan's planetary consumption is discussed, the kanji and wording ALWAYS consistently and clearly denote celestial bodies (星 / Hoshi), not space or dimension.

The vague references to "space" are only ever used in the context of Kaguya’s dimensions and similar Otsutsuki realms—not traditional planets. This distinction is deliberate and important. Using all of these I want to say that trying to argue the individual realms are just planets is still incorrect given how dimensions and planets are referred to very differently.

I was gonna shed more light but on this stuff but others have already touched on other matters so I am choosing to leave them out.

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To summarise everything explained up till this point

1. Kaguyas realms are spatially (and temporally) separate from the main universe
2. Kaguyas realms are spatially (and temporally) separate from each other
3. Kaguya realms are explicitly dimensions before anything else

Conclusion : 4B must be maintained

 

[Samlex1234]

Wow

 

[Samlex1234]

Obito does not call them Time-Spaces at all.

In the manga, when the English translation uses "Time-Space", it's likely a Viz mistranslation for the word "kūkan"

Which is interchangeably usable with world, dimension, or space.

I hope @Ghostimuscrime addressed this point, then.

 

[Deceived3596]

I just know after Net saw two different, multi-paragraph long posts addressing his OP, he hit one of these looks:

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I hope @Ghostimuscrime addressed this point, then.

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1296495090004394008/1359684413100789850/IMG_7482.jpg?ex=67f86049&is=67f70ec9&hm=6f5bbca81242add4a31f3dfa7bca804119b78b2efd2f2c811a6649a1ccbbb728&

I just know after Net saw two different, multi-paragraph long posts addressing his OP, he hit one of these looks:

In my defense I talk about stuff he’s been looking to see addressed

 

[MinatoSparkle]

In my defense I talk about stuff he’s been looking to see addressed

Net:

 

[That_moron2]

bump

 

[That_moron2]

Bump

 

[TegamiBachi25]

bump