Invincible (TV Series): Type 2 Immortality for Viltrumites (Spoilers for those who haven't watched the show)

[CreamyZoup]

Ok so I've found some showings that prove Viltrumites have Type 2 Immortality (Resilient Immortality; which is being able to stay alive with severe injuries without being needed to heal)

Example #1
Viltrumites like Lucan are still able to continue to fight and stay alive with his guts spilling out of his body as seen here.

Omni-Man spills his guts out and impales him with a rock, seemingly killing him. Until...

Lucan comes back alive, still alive even after having his guts spilled.

Example #2
Conquest was still alive and still able to continue fighting Invincible even with most of his skin incinerated from his body



I'd write it like this for example:

Omni-Man (TV Series)
Immortality (Type 2; Is a viltrumite like Lucan, who was able to continue fighting with his guts cut open, or Conquest, who survived and was still able to fight even with most of his skin being incinerated)

 

[CreamyZoup]

@StoneKillerz12 @CitRusReality64 @Damage3245 @FusionPrime0 @Dalesean027

 

[Johner2133451]

Might be limited since it didn't damaged their heart or brain

 

[FinePoint]

Makes complete sense to me.

Might be limited since it didn't damaged their heart or brain

"This type of immortality can have different levels of effectiveness and can be bypassed, for example, by causing extremely severe wounds or the complete destruction of the body or specific parts of it, such as the head, etc."

It definitely seems like a relatively minor case, but also definitely far above what is normal for humans.

Especially since, in Conquest's example, his regeneration was very slow so he sort of just survived for a long time with like no face or skin.

 

[Johner2133451]

Makes complete sense to me.

"This type of immortality can have different levels of effectiveness and can be bypassed, for example, by causing extremely severe wounds or the complete destruction of the body or specific parts of it, such as the head, etc."

It definitely seems like a relatively minor case, but also definitely far above what is normal for humans.

OPM has their physiology having type 2 immortality but limited with similar reasons as it didn't harm the brain or heart

Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man)

The Limiter (リミッター, Rimittā?) is a barrier placed by God on all beings in the One-Punch Man world that restricts their physical growth[1]. The limiter acts as a sort of cap to an individual's growth, making it impossible to grow past a certain point[1]. There are different ways to bypass the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Immense Pain Tolerance & Limited Immortality (Type 2; Those with abnormally strong willpower can survive near death conditions, as well as flat out death via sheer willpower)

 

[FinePoint]

OPM has their physiology having type 2 immortality but limited with similar reasons as it didn't harm the brain or heart

Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man)

The Limiter (リミッター, Rimittā?) is a barrier placed by God on all beings in the One-Punch Man world that restricts their physical growth[1]. The limiter acts as a sort of cap to an individual's growth, making it impossible to grow past a certain point[1]. There are different ways to bypass the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Immense Pain Tolerance & Limited Immortality (Type 2; Those with abnormally strong willpower can survive near death conditions, as well as flat out death via sheer willpower)

I'm fine with it being "limited" even though it's sort of a subjective label.

Their pain tolerance should also be mentioned if not already, similar to this example.

That one has a lot more justification from Invincible regularly fighting while having massive injuries.

 

[CreamyZoup]

Might be limited since it didn't damaged their heart or brain

I mean, the comic versions it's not limited as characters like Lucan and Conquest were still able to stay alive and fight even after their guts were exposed and skin incinerated. And thing is for Viltrumites their body can't repair themselves to full if their heart or brain is damaged, so I don't believe it's limited if they show it constant feats of type 2 immortality.

Might not be the most 1-1 comparison but it is one to consider given the comic examples are similar to the shows it's comparable, so it's not limited.

Also don't agree with that sentiment because type 2 immortality is basically indefinitely surviving injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without the need to heal. And like the page says, there's degrees of effectiveness to it and can be bypassed (e.g damaging the brain or heart in some capacity).

Conquest was still able to fight and stay alive even after half his skin was incinerated, only being knocked out because Mark headbutted his head. Otherwise, he'd still be standing just fine.

 

[Abstractions]

OPM has their physiology having type 2 immortality but limited with similar reasons as it didn't harm the brain or heart

Sounds to me that neither should have it then.

 

[Johner2133451]

I mean, the comic versions it's not limited as characters like Lucan and Conquest were still able to stay alive and fight even after their guts were exposed and skin incinerated. And thing is for Viltrumites their body can't repair themselves to full if their heart or brain is damaged, so I don't believe it's limited if they show it constant feats of type 2 immortality.

Might not be the most 1-1 comparison but it is one to consider given the comic examples are similar to the shows it's comparable, so it's not limited.

Also don't agree with that sentiment because type 2 immortality is basically indefinitely surviving injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without the need to heal. And like the page says, there's degrees of effectiveness to it and can be bypassed (e.g damaging the brain or heart in some capacity).

Conquest was still able to fight and stay alive even after half his skin was incinerated, only being knocked out because Mark headbutted his head. Otherwise, he'd still be standing just fine.

Well up to you but that's my interpretation via examples from other verses like OPM

 

[Johner2133451]

Sounds to me that neither should have it then.

So you think OPM's limited type 2 immortality should be removed?

 

[CreamyZoup]

Makes complete sense to me.

"This type of immortality can have different levels of effectiveness and can be bypassed, for example, by causing extremely severe wounds or the complete destruction of the body or specific parts of it, such as the head, etc."

It definitely seems like a relatively minor case, but also definitely far above what is normal for humans.

Especially since, in Conquest's example, his regeneration was very slow so he sort of just survived for a long time with like no face or skin.

I mean even with extreme pain tolerance, no normal human is surviving their guts being spilled out so I don't think it'd be limited, the skin incineration one is up to interpretation but I don't think any human being is able to continue fighting after having most of their skin incinerated. Just think about it for a moment. Plus Conquest's regen is slow so makes sense

Was just saying my arguments to support my claims (ik you agree with me)

 

[CreamyZoup]

So you think OPM's limited type 2 immortality should be removed?

Can we try not to be off-topic here? Just sayin' because this is about Invincible, not OPM

 

[Abstractions]

So you think OPM's limited type 2 immortality should be removed?

If you're saying that the circumstance is the exact same to this one, then I would say yes.

I personally have a problem with immortality being labeled as "limited" when the case for it would just be someone having really high stamina.

 

[Johner2133451]

Can we try not to be off-topic here? Just sayin' because this is about Invincible, not OPM

It's kinda relevant since the staff mentions that Viltrumites cannot have type 2 as it's reasonings is similar to OPM

 

[CreamyZoup]

It's kinda relevant since the staff mentions that Viltrumites cannot have type 2 as it's reasonings is similar to OPM

I mean it did get accepted for the comics, and Viltrumites can't continue to fight or heal from damaged brain/heart
although Thragg was able to fight with his brain exposed but I don't believe Thragg's brain was damaged given Omni-Man for example, he can't heal or fight if his heart is damaged in any capacity which is why he died in the comics

 

[Johner2133451]

I mean it did get accepted for the comics, and Viltrumites can't continue to fight or heal from damaged brain/heart
although Thragg was able to fight with his brain exposed but I don't believe Thragg's brain was damaged given Omni-Man for example, he can't heal or fight if his heart is damaged in any capacity which is why he died in the comics

It might get removed according to what the staff mentioned

 

[AThe1412]

I mean, Conquest survived getting his face bashed in pretty bad. That must have done some brain damage, yeah?

 

[FinePoint]

It might get removed according to what the staff mentioned

So far one staff member thinks it's fine and one doesn't, so I wouldn't jump to such a hasty conclusion.

If there's a disagreement, it just means you need more votes.

Personally I don't see any part of Immortality Type 2 which specifies it has to include missing parts of the brain or heart.

In fact it specifically mentions that certain weak spots like the head may be exceptions.

And I definitely don't think fighting while missing all your skin is merely high stamina, nor surviving that in addition to having your face caved in with no clear additional treatment. So I strongly disagree with Abstractions there.

 

[Johner2133451]

So I strongly disagree with Abstractions there.

If you're saying that the circumstance is the exact same to this one, then I would say yes.

I personally have a problem with immortality being labeled as "limited" when the case for it would just be someone having really high stamina.

What are your thoughts now

 

[Isaacbobanka]

I think mind control resistance also should be added to viltrumites as Invincible was able to resist the mind control of the sequids which was said to be due to him being a viltrumite

 

[Johner2133451]

I think mind control resistance also should be added to viltrumites as Invincible was able to resist the mind control of the sequids which was said to be due to him being a viltrumite

@Chariot190 mentioned he wants to remove it as the resists only happened because of their tough skin

 

[AThe1412]

I think mind control resistance also should be added to viltrumites as Invincible was able to resist the mind control of the sequids which was said to be due to him being a viltrumite

It's already on the profiles and we're, in fact, planning to do the opposite of that as Johner explained.

 

[Abstractions]

Personally I don't see any part of Immortality Type 2 which specifies it has to include missing parts of the brain or heart.

"Characters with this degree of immortality can indefinitely survive injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without needing to heal."

The very stipulation for this immortality is that these characters must be able to indefinitely survive these injuries, Viltrumites can clearly succumb to their injuries and require medical attention so that their body can recover.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

It's already on the profiles and we're, in fact, planning to do the opposite of that as Johner explained.

Yeah just saw that the profile got updated but should the skins resistance not give atleast some mind control reistance even if its limited?

 

[FinePoint]

"Characters with this degree of immortality can indefinitely survive injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without needing to heal."

The very stipulation for this immortality is that these characters must be able to indefinitely survive these injuries, Viltrumites can clearly succumb to their injuries and require medical attention so that their body can recover.

He didn't heal for a long time. All Cecil did was trap him in a box.
He was chilling with no skin and his face caved in for longer than an normal person could before dying.

You're asking for a standard of proof that's literally impossible for something which also happens to heal.
If he survives, he will eventually heal, so I obviously can't show you him surviving indefinitely without healing.

 

[Abstractions]

You're asking for a standard of proof that's literally impossible for something which also happens to heal.

It's the very metric the form of immortality abides by, if you think it's strict you should probably bring it up in a thread of some kind.

 

[FinePoint]

It's the very metric the form of immortality abides by, if you think it's strict you should probably bring it up in a thread of some kind.

Well, I guess:

Since he survives fatally wounded for a very long time, I'm saying it's likely that it would be indefinite were it not for the fact that he will happen to heal eventually.

But you're right that by the technical wording I can't prove it, and I'd need to make a different thread to address that.

So what about Type 3?

If he's not surviving via resilience, then you have to be assuming the regeneration is saving him.

 

[Abstractions]

I believe it is some sort of combination of his regeneration and Viltrumite tenacity, which is why I attribute it more to stamina if anything else.

This also could be a reluctance to hand out these kinds of immortalities to anybody who happens to tough through an injury that would floor a normal person for a short period of time, because the upper end of Type 2 is like Shinnok, who survives as a severed head.

 

[AThe1412]

Yeah just saw that the profile got updated but should the skins resistance not give atleast some mind control reistance even if its limited?

Not really. Viltrumites aren't actually resistant. They're just too durable so the Sequids can't pierce their skin to control them. That's like saying someone is resistant to poison because the needle used to inject the poison can't get through their skin. By that logic, anyone who's as durable as Viltrumites or more should have resistance to mind control.

 

[CreamyZoup]

So we gon' have a vote on if the Viltrumites get type 2 immortality or no?

 

[CreamyZoup]

I believe it is some sort of combination of his regeneration and Viltrumite tenacity, which is why I attribute it more to stamina if anything else.

This also could be a reluctance to hand out these kinds of immortalities to anybody who happens to tough through an injury that would floor a normal person for a short period of time, because the upper end of Type 2 is like Shinnok, who survives as a severed head.

Are we going to ignore Lucan still continuing to stay alive, fight and fly even after his guts were spilling out of his body? I don't think any normal human with the highest level of stamina, endurance or pain tolerance is achieving such goal and will die trying to do that.

 

[FinePoint]

I believe it is some sort of combination of his regeneration and Viltrumite tenacity, which is why I attribute it more to stamina if anything else.

This also could be a reluctance to hand out these kinds of immortalities to anybody who happens to tough through an injury that would floor a normal person for a short period of time, because the upper end of Type 2 is like Shinnok, who survives as a severed head.

He lost almost all his skin and had this happen to his head:

He then proceeds to just exist like this for probably about a day, long enough for Cecil to move him to an underground bunker and build a giant tungsten cube around him, before he starts actually healing anything visually.

I would say that would do far more than floor a normal person, I think that would kill them.

 

[FinePoint]

It's the very metric the form of immortality abides by, if you think it's strict you should probably bring it up in a thread of some kind.

I made the thread.

 

[Abstractions]

Are we going to ignore Lucan still continuing to stay alive, fight and fly even after his guts were spilling out of his body? I don't think any normal human with the highest level of stamina, endurance or pain tolerance is achieving such goal and will die trying to do that.

I'm not ignoring it, and have acknowledged that yes, them surviving is probably a superhuman feat, just that it doesn't necessarily qualify for an immortality that stipulates that people be able to survive such conditions indefinitely and without needing to heal, Viltrumites have better physiology and will eventually regenerate from these wounds unlike a normal person, and are clearly far more tenacious than the average person, that isn't disputed.

 

[Tahoy49574]

Add Immortality Type 3 while at it

 

[Zabazab]

"Characters with this degree of immortality can indefinitely survive injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without needing to heal."

Stamina page also states:

• Injury tolerance: How much actual damage a character can withstand and continue to act in spite of it. It is common in fiction to see characters continue to fight despite grievous injuries, such as broken or missing limbs, heavy blood loss, and organ damage. Extreme cases may resemble Type 2 Immortality, with characters temporarily pushing on through injuries that should have killed them. However, as long as an injury remains lethal, it is not actually Type 2 Immortality.

 

[Abstractions]

Stamina page also states:

I would really hone in on that last part.

"Extreme cases may resemble Type 2 Immortality, with characters temporarily pushing on through injuries that should have killed them. However, as long as an injury remains lethal, it is not actually Type 2 Immortality."

 

[FusionPrime0]

I disagree. The Injuries various Viltrumites sustained would've been lethal eventually if they didn't have a healing factor, even if it would take days or weeks. These feats just point to an extremely high injury tolerance in relation to stamina, not type 2 Immortality.

 

[NikHelton]

It's a feat of endurance, not immortality.

In the comics, Mark needed his insides to be put back into his body before his body could begin to heal. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't have worked.

Lucan also passes out from his wounds after he takes down Nolan.

In real life, people can survive fatal wounds and remain conscious for a while. Be it brain trauma, internal injuries, or even gut trauma. It's more of a matter of luck.

Rex was shot in the head, but he was lucky the bullet missed important parts of his brain. This also doesn't give him Type 3 immortality.

 

[AThe1412]

It's a feat of endurance, not immortality.

In the comics, Mark needed his insides to be put back into his body before his body could begin to heal. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't have worked.

Lucan also passes out from his wounds after he takes down Nolan.

In real life, people can survive fatal wounds and remain conscious for a while. Be it brain trauma, internal injuries, or even gut trauma. It's more of a matter of luck.

Rex was shot in the head, but he was lucky the bullet missed important parts of his brain. This also doesn't give him Type 3 immortality.

I think you meant type 2. Type 3 aka regeneration would be what's actually keeping them alive if it's not type 2. The comic profiles already have both, funnily enough.