Green Gremlin vs your Doom (Tatsumaki vs Doom) (One-Punch Man vs Mashle)

[EnderLord8]

History: In her work as a hero Tatsumaki is sent to investigate a mountain where children have disappeared, she ends up passing through the barrier where she finds ruins full of dust, meanwhile in another universe because of a random magic Doom is transported to the ruins 20 meters away from Tatsumaki, both as soon as they see each other know that they are enemies

Tatsumaki is in her only key and has in her hands a pickaxe made of paper, Tatsumaki upscaling considerably from 18.28 Exatons
Doom is in its normal key using maximum output, Doom 80% is 7.86 Exatons < Doom 90% << Doom 100% <<< Doom maximum output

So the AP difference must be less than 2.3257x

Initial Distance: 20 meters

Speed is Equalized

Battlefield: Undertale Ruins (The room where Toriel tests Frisk's independence)

Both are in character

Extra Equipment: Doom has a 1cm tall top hat on top of his head and Tatsumaki has in her hands a pickaxe made of paper

Tatsumaki:
Doom:
Saitama one-shot them both:

 

[MrTayman616]

Tatsumaki wins, no?

Scales higher and Doom's maximum output is temporary. Tatsumaki's ability helps here as well.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Ok, so…

Doom has greater LS, so Tatsumaki can't TK crush him. I wonder if that'd affect her durability negation too or if it won't

Anyway, Tatsumaki scales above her value by a lot. I think (maybe I'm missing something, feel free to correct me) it is like this:
Psyokorochi original beam<Psykorochi after growing<(One shot value)<Tatsumaki twisting psykorochi=Tatsumaki's initial output against Saitama<(One shot value)<Tatsumaki's greater output against Saitama<Full Power Tatsumaki

I think one shot values are not usable cross-verse, though. But still should matter due to her having an initial advantadge of ~2.4x Doom's AP.

This:

• Enhanced Telekinesis (At the level of a Divine Visionary<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._note-Mashle:_Magic_and_Muscles_Chapter_35-39"><span>[</span>39<span>]</span></a>, is capable to stop any attack that are inferior in term of lifting strength<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._note-Mashle:_Magic_and_Muscles_Chapter_35-39"><span>[</span>39<span>]</span></a> and control opponent body at will<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._note-Mashle:_Magic_and_Muscles_Chapter_36-40"><span>[</span>40<span>]</span></a>)

will be problematic for Tatsumaki, though. If the opponent uses it, she'd need to immediatly go for an instant one shot with either durability, AP difference or a mix of both to win. She can use psychic powers with her mind, and strengthen her body with her psychic power, which'd help her to resist almost any attack unless the enemy uses his summoning

 

[EnderLord8]

Well, I'm not exactly an expert on Doom, but let's try to debate until some Mashle expert shows up...

He can create hundreds of copies that will attack Tatsumaki at the same time, as can be seen in chapter 139~141, he also has average regeneration that can help him last longer, with Freyja he has an AP/Dura advantage of approximately 4.3x (Although I have no idea how long he can maintain this), and he is as skilled as Mash, who at least has skill feats that you would expect from a very well developed Garou.

That's what I can say just with what I know + what his profile says.

If this is too much in Tatsumaki's favor I can always give Doom some prior knowledge.

Another observation I'll have to make is that Doom is immune to Tatsumaki's Power Lift and the battlefield limits Tatsumaki's ammo pool and neutralizes her BFR (Not that she can do anything against a superior LS)

Edit: Oh, yes, another point that could serve as a wincon is that Tatsumaki has no heat resistance, if the battle happened to reach Hotland, she would be cooked, there is also no cold resistance, so snowdin would also be a disadvantage, but it would also serve for Doom since he has no cold resistance

Edit 2: Oh wait a minute, Willpower and The Limiter (One-Punch Man) has granted resistance to heat and cold via adaptation, although I don't know how her willpower is comparable to puri puri

 

[Ebihara]

Well, I'm not exactly an expert on Doom, but let's try to debate until some Mashle expert shows up...

i summoned the only supporter.

 

[Kachon123]

Doom has greater LS, so Tatsumaki can't TK crush him. I wonder if that'd affect her durability negation too or if it won't

Nah, Tatsumaki's TK ha dura neg and she also has higher AP. He'd be effected pretty normally. Tatsumaki just wouldn't be able to twist him out of existence.

 

[EnderLord8]

I discovered that Doom also has a verse-specific power and ability page

as it is a Triple-Liner it has some other things:

• Illusion Inducement (Wizards at this point are able to induce illusions)
• Damage Reduction (A large amount of magic can work as a cushion to reduce the damage from opponents' attacks)
• Minor Pain Inducement (Powerful magic powers can create a sensation of pain in the stomach)

Resistance:
+ Pain Inducement (Powerful magic powers can create a sensation of pain in the stomach and yet he is not bothered in the presence of comparables)

Remember he has mid regeneration

 

[Ebihara]

@AnAverageUsername basically the only supporter and has argued for doom a good amount before. I dont think there is any other supporters that are active at least.

 

[Kachon123]

Illusion Inducement (Wizards at this point are able to induce illusions)

The illusions don't seem to be very useful in combat, and Tatsumaki was able to see through god's illusion so she should be fine.

Damage Reduction (A large amount of magic can work as a cushion to reduce the damage from opponents' attacks)

Does this work against internal damaging attacks?

Minor Pain Inducement (Powerful magic powers can create a sensation of pain in the stomach)

Tatsumaki has a barrier and passive aura to protect herself. Regardless this wouldn't effect her much considering her pain tolerance and endurance.

Remember he has mid regeneration

Tatsumaki dealt cellular damage to someone who has Mid-High regen and ha stats above Doom. Which prevented them from regenerating.

 

[EnderLord8]

The illusions don't seem to be very useful in combat,

The illusions would serve more as distractions, if she ended up distracted while protecting herself from a Danmaku from Doom with multiple clones + Freyja or she was distracted from a surprise attack from behind + Freyja, she could end up seriously injured.

and Tatsumaki was able to see through god's illusion so she should be fine.

I don't know, bro, her profile doesn't show resistance to creating illusions (Not to mention that god's illusions seem to be quite weak, considering that he only appeared to people with a somewhat weakened mental state)

Does this work against internal damaging attacks?

Look bro, I have no idea, I'm not an expert, besides the profile suggests that she can attack the internal organs if she wants, which makes it seem like it wouldn't be her first move, in fact I had the impression that it would take a while for her to make this move.

Tatsumaki has a barrier and passive aura to protect herself.

The barrier has a talent to block something like that (Or maybe it's the feeling of pain that needs a talent to get past barriers? I don't know in this case)

Regardless this wouldn't effect her much considering her pain tolerance and endurance

I know it wouldn't affect her much, but it would be a nuisance that could distract her.

.Tatsumaki dealt cellular damage to someone who has Mid-High regen and ha stats above Doom. Which prevented them from regenerating.

If so, it's a good idea to add regeneration negation back to her profile, as I haven't seen it anywhere (And if it was there I wouldn't have mentioned regeneration)

 

[Ebihara]

id just wait for the only supporter to respond tbh.

 

[Kachon123]

The illusions would serve more as distractions, if she ended up distracted while protecting herself from a Danmaku from Doom with multiple clones + Freyja or she was distracted from a surprise attack from behind + Freyja, she could end up seriously injured.

Why would she be distracted? She has very good senses.

I don't know, bro, her profile doesn't show resistance to creating illusions (Not to mention that god's illusions seem to be quite weak, considering that he only appeared to people with a somewhat weakened mental state)

She just saw through it. Not really a resistance. God's illusions aren't weak lol.

Look bro, I have no idea, I'm not an expert, besides the profile suggests that she can attack the internal organs if she wants, which makes it seem like it wouldn't be her first move, in fact I had the impression that it would take a while for her to make this move.

Telekinesis in One-Punch Man has durability negation as a default. Tatsumaki can specifically target organs if she wants, but just the base pressure of her abilities cause severe internal bleeding.

(Tatsumaki's telekinesis inflicts overwhelming pressure, which causes internal bleeding and has been shown to also affect muscles)

The barrier has a talent to block something like that (Or maybe it's the feeling of pain that needs a talent to get past barriers? I don't know in this case)

What causes stomach pain is the radiated aura. Barries can block that out.

I know it wouldn't affect her much, but it would be a nuisance that could distract her.

No it would not.

If so, it's a good idea to add regeneration denial back to her profile, as I haven't seen it anywhere (And if it was there I wouldn't have mentioned regeneration)

It's not regeneration negation. She just dealt more damage than what they could regenerate from.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I thought you put her against Dr. Doom, and I was very concerned.

 

[EnderLord8]

Why would she be distracted? She has very good senses.

I don't know, it depends on how good the illusions are (In this topic I will wait for a Mashle expert, as it would be rather pointless to debate assumptions, only to find out later that they are false)

She just saw through it. Not really a resistance.

To see through illusions wouldn't it be necessary to resist illusion creation?

God's illusions aren't weak lol.

Well it seems like that considering he only appears to people with dubious mental states and failed to deceive some of them (Although both Garou and Tatsumaki have Willpower), he also managed Empty Void, but that doesn't say much considering the redrawn, anyway in her part seeing through the illusion it seemed more like she remembered what Blast told her and that's why she didn't fall for the illusion and that God only revealed his true face after she refused... So IDK, I'll probably have to reread this part, but if you happen to have the scan, you could send it to anyone with questions so they can see it.

Telekinesis in One-Punch Man has durability negation as a default. Tatsumaki can specifically target organs if she wants, but just the base pressure of her abilities cause severe internal bleeding.

wouldn't the pressure require having a larger AP and LS? I thought AP alone wouldn't be able to do that

What causes stomach pain is the radiated aura. Barries can block that out.

magic aura? Well, I have no idea anyway, I'll wait for a specialist.

No it would not.

This answer is absolutely certain, but from my own experience (at least in my case), pains inside my body were more annoying than pains from more serious injuries, simply because they take away concentration because they are more annoying... And well, I have an above-average pain tolerance, but I don't know how valid that is, since it's just my experience... Either way, the pain would still be there, but it would affect you very little and wouldn't distract you as much at first, but if stacked together with any potential future injury, it might be able to do something.

It's not regeneration negation. She just dealt more damage than what they could regenerate from.

Hum... IDK

 

[Kachon123]

This answer is absolutely certain, but from my own experience (at least in my case), pains inside my body were more annoying than pains from more serious injuries, simply because they take away concentration because they are more annoying... And well, I have an above-average pain tolerance, but I don't know how valid that is, since it's just my experience... Either way, the pain would still be there, but it would affect you very little and wouldn't distract you as much at first, but if stacked together with any potential future injury, it might be able to do something.

Not when she can multitask fighting and protecting several dozen people while suffering from internal bleeding, just to deal with danmaku from Homeless Emperor with ease. It won't do anything to hinder her. And this is all under the assumption that her barrier wouldn't just block it out.

 

[EnderLord8]

Not when she can multitask fighting and protecting several dozen people while suffering from internal bleeding, just to deal with danmaku from Homeless Emperor with ease. It won't do anything to hinder her.

Oh well that's a valid point, although she might be pushed into it if the battle goes on long enough into a fight against hundreds of 5-C's with superior LS

 

[EnderLord8]

I noticed that Mash's profile is only at High 6-B, even though he fought a High 6-A Doom, the profiles are out of date, aren't they?

 

[Ebihara]

I noticed that Mash's profile is only at High 6-B, even though he fought a High 6-A Doom, the profiles are out of date, aren't they?

they are useable but some characters aren't updated to End of series from my understanding, again there is one supporter who can answer everything

 

[Coomandar]

what are his wincons?

from what i can see her ap value is considerably bigger than his, and speed is equalized, nothing stops her from crushing his internal organs…

 

[Ebihara]

what are his wincons?

Maximum Output Freyja, Goddess of Bounty which is a 5-c attack, I think he can pretty much only use this once and then he gonna be drained af. or trying to rush down with his mirage third clones which are 100 clones of him that are as strong as him. probaly, still waiting for only supporter but they havent been on since monday arent as active IIRC. I dont really remember how frejya works in terms of like aoe.

 

[Coomandar]

Maximum Output Freyja, Goddess of Bounty which is a 5-c attack, I think he can pretty much only use this once and then he gonna be drained af. or trying to rush down with his mirage third clones which are 100 clones of him that are as strong as him. probaly, still waiting for only supporter but they havent been on since monday arent as active IIRC. I dont really remember how frejya works in terms of like aoe.

is that 5-c attack faster than his base speed or anything else?

 

[Ebihara]

is that 5-c attack faster than his base speed or anything else?

no idea.

 

[Coomandar]

and the ap value? 78 exatons? the calculation and explanation are too big, got me confused

 

[Ebihara]

ya its a 10x multiplier. this is about reaching the very surface level knowdlge i have. As i have said I dont really think gonna get a real debate or proper agurments till the only person who knows the verse respomds. So gonna wait for them.

 

[EnderLord8]

bump

 

[EnderLord8]

bump

 

[EnderLord8]

bump

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Hoooooo boy work had me beat, but uhhh, guess I'll argue what I can....?

Well, I'm not exactly an expert on Doom, but let's try to debate until some Mashle expert shows up...

He can create hundreds of copies that will attack Tatsumaki at the same time, as can be seen in chapter 139~141, he also has average regeneration that can help him last longer, with Freyja he has an AP/Dura advantage of approximately 4.3x (Although I have no idea how long he can maintain this), and he is as skilled as Mash, who at least has skill feats that you would expect from a very well developed Garou.

Doom can only cast a hundred versions of himself with his Thirds, which throughout the series we only see possible by popping a Summons first. As you mentioned, Doom would end up a fair bit stronger than Tatsumaki with Godess of Bounty active, and combining that with a hundred versions of himself with the same power and same regeneration, it seems like this would be enough to win through sheer numbers alone.

....of course, Doom would have to cast it before he gets defeated, and iirc Tatsumaki takes things seriously from the get go. However I wouldn't say the beginning gap isn't so insurmountable that Doom can do nothing, even with his Maximum Output being on a limited time. To boot, in a scenario where Doom is pushed to such limits, he will use his Summons right after as he did against Mash, so there that as well.

That's what I can say just with what I know + what his profile says.

If this is too much in Tatsumaki's favor I can always give Doom some prior knowledge.

Even with prior knowledge Doom prefers to get in close and start hacking away, so it wouldn't do him much good there

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Maximum Output Freyja, Goddess of Bounty which is a 5-c attack, I think he can pretty much only use this once and then he gonna be drained af. or trying to rush down with his mirage third clones which are 100 clones of him that are as strong as him. probaly, still waiting for only supporter but they havent been on since monday arent as active IIRC. I dont really remember how frejya works in terms of like aoe.

Godess of Bounty isn't an attack, it's an amplification to his power by casting out the wand's true form ala Shikai. In Doom's case it doesn't actually change his wand in any significant way due to it being inside his buster sword, which is unfortunate since Komoto puts a lot of effort into these true wand designs.

As for drain, nah he can hold it up for a significant amount of time. Like yeah, he will eventually run out if magic power because of his Max Output's "high" drain, but he was able to use that + his summons + his Thirds one after another, and still fight Mash for some time.

 

[EnderLord8]

Finally the Mashle expert has arrived! Now the debate can really begin

 

[EnderLord8]

bump

 

[EnderLord8]

pmub

 

[EnderLord8]

bump

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Damn do OPM fans only care about Garou and to a lesser extent Saitama? Someone should contact supporters (not me)

 

[Razor]

How does doom respond if Tats just flies? His range is tens of meters and he has no flight or any kind of levitation ability.

 

[EnderLord8]

How does doom respond if Tats just flies? His range is tens of meters and he has no flight or any kind of levitation ability.

Well, the initial location, at least before she starts to turn everything over, has a not very high ceiling, after the destruction begins, the next limit would be a magical barrier 2-B that encompasses the entire Mount Ebott, but this limits much less than the space of the ruins.

 

[Razor]

Well, the initial location, at least before she starts to turn everything over, has a not very high ceiling, after the destruction begins, the next limit would be a magical barrier 2-B that encompasses the entire Mount Ebott, but this limits much less than the space of the ruins.

Tatsumaki can just easily breakthrough whatever obstacle there is to create distance between her and doom. Plus he doesn't resist her TK dura neg. Tatsumaki just has too much going on for her here. Attack reflection to deflect Doom's danmaku. Barriers. Absurd range advantage and her own Danmaku.

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah I don't see how Tatsumaki doesn't steamroll here. 100 clones are cool an all but when they got handled by chucking them far below the battlefield in-canon, Tatsumaki would simply just send all of them to space.

Doom's 78.6 exatons is also cool but that doesn't give him an answer to any of her attacks that also have durability negation. He'd get shredded and compressed from the inside-out to a cellular level from several kilometers in the sky.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Well the thing is, Doom already has a massive LS advantage over Tatsumaki. In the case that Tatsumaki tries to cheese things and attempts to fly away, there is a case to be made that he just blocks her ascent, or hell even control her body and force her down into a close range fight, like how Cell War controlled Abel's body to hold him in place.

And while Tatsumaki can try to twist Doom's body, assuming it doesn't get countered by his more powerful LS, he has regeneration to keep him going even in his max power state. And with Godess of Bounty casted, Doom's going from a sizable disadvantage to a sizable advantage in terms of pure power.

 

[Kachon123]

Well the thing is, Doom already has a massive LS advantage over Tatsumaki. In the case that Tatsumaki tries to cheese things and attempts to fly away, there is a case to be made that he just blocks her ascent, or hell even control her body and force her down into a close range fight, like how Cell War controlled Abel's body to hold him in place.

Superior LS doesn't stop you from being sent to space. Only from being crushed, twisted, things of that sort. Lifting Strength can't be used to anchor yourself to the ground unless you do so via grip strength. Which in that case Tatsumaki would just send the piece of the ground he'd grabbing onto into space as well.

And while Tatsumaki can try to twist Doom's body, assuming it doesn't get countered by his more powerful LS, he has regeneration to keep him going even in his max power state. And with Godess of Bounty casted, Doom's going from a sizable disadvantage to a sizable advantage in terms of pure power.

Doom's regeneration is garbage all things considered. Tatsumaki doesn't need to twist Doom to deal fatal damage. The sheer and raw pressure as a byproduct of just activating her abilities cause internal damage to significant degrees and Tatsumaki already ha superior AP to begin with where she can one-shot people who scale to Doom's level to a cellular level. He's getting absolutely cooked.