DOOM: Cosmology upgrade

[Qawsedf234]

Hello, can you see my scale if it's fine or not to get overall Cosmology at 7-D? (it's 6-D and im trying to make 7-D so it's 1-D+)

I don't see why hell would be dimensionally superior. Just being higher into a 6-D would allow it to shatter a 6D realm. Being unbound compared to the material multiverse by it isn't enough to prove it's superior to Urdak by the same capacity.

 

[Mythic381]

I don't see why hell would be dimensionally superior. Just being higher into a 6-D would allow it to shatter a 6D realm. Being unbound compared to the material multiverse by it isn't enough to prove it's superior to Urdak by the same capacity.

I mean, it does state that it is unlimited by the boundaries of dimension, which could imply it's not limited by the existing boundaries of dimension? (6D Urdaki), no?

 

[Baldiback3162]

I don't see why hell would be dimensionally superior. Just being higher into a 6-D would allow it to shatter a 6D realm. Being unbound compared to the material multiverse by it isn't enough to prove it's superior to Urdak by the same capacity.

While it's true that being higher within a dimension can grant a degree of power, the codex explicitly states Hell is Beyond Urdak. The term beyond in this context especially when paired with higher layer of reality also Hell would be dimensionally superior to 6-D Urdak which i will explain. The Novel of DOOM states that Hell is unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension Urdak, despite being a 6-D realm is described in terms of having a fixed dimensionality it is a higher dimension and superior to Multiverse so Hell, by contrast, is unlimited by dimension this means it transcends the very concept of being bound to a fixed dimensional count that even Urdak is subject to

So this would mean Hell is dimensionally superior to 6-D Urdak, since Hell is unlimited by dimension with being beyond Urdak and Urdak is a 6-D realm, then Hell would be on a plane that transcends fixed dimensionality this quantitative jump from a defined 6-D realm to a state "unlimited by dimensions" places it at the next ordinal dimension, which is 7-D.

Therefore, beyond in this context is a key indicator of dimensional superiority validating my argument for Hell's 7-D dimensionality.

 

[Qawsedf234]

mean, it does state that it is unlimited by the boundaries of dimension, which could imply it's not limited by the existing boundaries of dimension? (6D Urdaki), no?

From what I'm reading with the OP, its about the multiverse due to this part:

Urdak (1-C) 6-D : Urdak is explicitly defined as a "higher dimension" that is superior to Multiverse since Earth's Multiverse is established as 5-D a realm that directly "transcends" it points to a 6-D existence Urdak is "completely inaccessible to Humans and Sentinels" this is crucial because the Sentinels (and by extension, the equipped humans) are confirmed to access all of space-time via Argent energy (4:34) Urdak is described as a "higher plane of existence composed of transcendent technology" it was also the "original home of the Father, a Formless Primeval" whose "logic and power gave birth to untold dimensions and worlds" indicating Urdak's fundamental and highly dimensional nature as the source of a dimension creating entity

Urdak is already outside of space and time, meaning that Hell can't be more out of Urdak's space and time. Both are being compared relative to the mortal multiverse rather than to themselves. As it was already established that Hell will eventually grow and destroy Urdak.

Hell is Beyond Urdak.

It's superior to Urdak, and it's filled with things without the moral limitations of Urdak. I'm not seeing that as dimensionally superior.

higher layer of reality also Hell would be dimensionally superior to 6-D Urdak which i will explain

This scan is worst piece of evidence for this argument as it's literally stating what I said verbetium. Both are outside of space and time, which contextually is the mortal Multiverse. Both are also affixed in positions relative to it. I mean we even have an FAQ thing about just this cosmology

Now, one of the most common scenarios where this question might arise is when dealing with cosmologies involving "higher planes of existence" or similar structures. In such cases, it's very important to note what exactly being a "higher plane" entails in the context of the setting: For instance, it's very common for Heaven and Hell to be defined as higher and lower planes of existence respectively in relation to the normal universe, in which case, "higher" and "lower" tends to simply indicate their relative position in a cosmology, as opposed to any kind of existential status, which is obviously not enough for anything remotely Tier 1.

Therefore, beyond in this context is a key indicator of dimensional superiority validating my argument for Hell's 7-D dimensionality.

At this point, I just fully disagree. Hell may be larger than Urdak, but not dimensionally superior. All your transcendence evidence is regarding Hell in relation to the mortal multiverse and not to Urdak. So list me as disagreeing with the last segment of your proposal.

 

[Baldiback3162]

At this point, I just fully disagree. Hell may be larger than Urdak, but not dimensionally superior. All your transcendence evidence is regarding Hell in relation to the mortal multiverse and not to Urdak. So list me as disagreeing with the last segment of your proposal.

Alright, but i have a question

The only way to get High 1-B currently is to prove that fracticles apply to geometric dimensions,

Can i ask that how proving that fractals apply to geometric dimensions would get to High 1-B?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can i ask that how proving that fractals apply to geometric dimensions would get to High 1-B?

See the highlights below:

Q: How do cardinal numbers relate to tiering?​

A: Depends on the number in question. The answer varies depending on the specification.

Let's take the smallest infinite cardinal (aleph-0, or ℵ0, the cardinality of countably infinite sets) as an example in this case: A set comprised of a countably infinite number of 0-dimensional points is itself a 0-dimensional space under the usual notions of dimensionality, being thus still infinitely small. Meanwhile, a countably infinite number of planets is High 3-A, a countably infinite number of universes 2-A, and countably infinitely many dimensions High 1-B.

We then move on to the power set of ℵ0, P(ℵ0), which is an uncountably infinite quantity and represents the set of all the ways in which you can arrange the elements of a set whose cardinality is the former, and is also equal to the size of the set of all real numbers. In terms of points, one can say that everything from 1-dimensional space to (countably) infinite-dimensional space falls under it, as all of these spaces have the same number of elements (coordinates, in this case), in spite of each being infinitely larger than the preceding one by the intuitive notions of size that we regularly utilize (Area, Volume, etc.).

On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C, and a similar number of spatial dimensions is High 1-B+.

However, the same does not apply to sets of higher cardinalities than this (Such as P(P(ℵ0)), the power set of the power set of aleph-0), as they would be strictly bigger than all of the spaces mentioned above, by all rigorous notions of size, regardless of what their elements are (Points, universes, dimensions, etc). From this point and onwards, all such sets are High 1-B+. Finally, the Universe of Sets corresponds to the Low 1-A tier.

Do note, however, that these infinities must specifically refer to elements that physically exist within a verse's cosmology. Them existing as in-universe mathematical concepts is not sufficient for anything to scale to them, unless there is a direct comparison that allows scaling to be made.

 

[Dicelium]

Yeah, i'm wondering this too, DOOM isn't japanese game by its origin

Anyway, i didn't see any Low 1-C evidences for the Multiverse, like, it is just extremely high interpretation or rather, theories. I honestly see nothing for uncountable infinite timelines, and idk where hypertimeline came from

About the Void, if you argue it to be nonexistent void, then it can't 8D, based on our current standard, a nonexistent void mean it is non-physical, non-physical mean it is undimensioned, so either it is 0D or BDE type 2 which is either Low 1-A or 1-A at least. But from the OP, look like you think and interpreting it to be a non-physical void, rather than outright being stated so, so idk what to say about it, but it is certainly not +1D compare to Hell, simply being the place that contain all of existence is not enough for a +1D.

Comment on phone is ass, but if i have time i will look deeper into the evidences, for now, this is all

The Void was the first thing Davoth created, and all of reality, hell, urdak and the likes "lie" in it. The void "lies" between and around all dimensions in doom.
The engines of creation lie in the void, described to be "on the other side of reality itself.

They breach the Void's "walls" to touch the physical world, implying that the void is non-physical

*note that the dimensional spaces of the universes are included as part of the physical world.

The engines of creation also spin in (into the physical word) and out of existence (back into the void).
The Seraphs create life spheres or revive them using the powers of the Void.


Summary- The Void is:
The "Container" for everything in the doom franchise.
Beyond reality and existence itself. (in a superior manner)
Non-physical
formless.

And for further context, hell connects itself to all other universes using pathways of darkness that go "through" the void, and are stated to transcend space and time.
Source: Lamentation of the Seraphs , The art of Doom Eternal

 

[Dicelium]

While it's true that being higher within a dimension can grant a degree of power, the codex explicitly states Hell is Beyond Urdak. The term beyond in this context especially when paired with higher layer of reality also Hell would be dimensionally superior to 6-D Urdak which i will explain. The Novel of DOOM states that Hell is unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension Urdak, despite being a 6-D realm is described in terms of having a fixed dimensionality it is a higher dimension and superior to Multiverse so Hell, by contrast, is unlimited by dimension this means it transcends the very concept of being bound to a fixed dimensional count that even Urdak is subject to

So this would mean Hell is dimensionally superior to 6-D Urdak, since Hell is unlimited by dimension with being beyond Urdak and Urdak is a 6-D realm, then Hell would be on a plane that transcends fixed dimensionality this quantitative jump from a defined 6-D realm to a state "unlimited by dimensions" places it at the next ordinal dimension, which is 7-D.

Therefore, beyond in this context is a key indicator of dimensional superiority validating my argument for Hell's 7-D dimensionality.

From what I'm reading with the OP, its about the multiverse due to this part:

Urdak is already outside of space and time, meaning that Hell can't be more out of Urdak's space and time. Both are being compared relative to the mortal multiverse rather than to themselves. As it was already established that Hell will eventually grow and destroy Urdak.

It's superior to Urdak, and it's filled with things without the moral limitations of Urdak. I'm not seeing that as dimensionally superior.

This scan is worst piece of evidence for this argument as it's literally stating what I said verbetium. Both are outside of space and time, which contextually is the mortal Multiverse. Both are also affixed in positions relative to it. I mean we even have an FAQ thing about just this cosmology


At this point, I just fully disagree. Hell may be larger than Urdak, but not dimensionally superior. All your transcendence evidence is regarding Hell in relation to the mortal multiverse and not to Urdak. So list me as disagreeing with the last segment of your proposal.

"Urdak itself exists in an anchor state, utilizing highly advanced dimensional shift technology to allow a static position at a sub-quantum level. This essentially inverts their position in relation to Hell; both planes of existence are fixed outside the bounds of the known universe, a 'lower' and 'higher' reality."
Urdak had to use dimensional shift technology to escape the confines of the mortal world and has to keep maintaining it, and even then only achieved "positional" equivalence to hell. The father still had to use davoths power and make the "holy" seal to keep hell at bay.

 

[Dicelium]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Baldiback3162/DOOM_Cosmology​

Let's get to the topic right away.

Earth's Universe and Timeline (Low 2-C) : The creation of Hell portals is explicitly described as causing "tears in spacetime which serve as gateways between dimensions". While "tears in spacetime" can be interpreted in various ways their function as "gateways between dimensions" suggests that Earth's reality is not merely a static 3-D space but interacts with and experiences other dimensions in a manner that transcends simple 3-D spatial boundaries this interaction particularly when leading to realms explicitly defined by higher spatial dimensions implies that the Earth's "timeline" as a singular continuum holds a foundational 4th dimensional aspect beyond just the temporal, fitting the qualitative definition of a 4-D space​

Earth's Multiverse (Low 1-C) : The Multiverse contains Countless universes,​

"Within the infinite conscious-matrix of the all-seeing Maykr God-mind, there exists every potentiality - every predictive variable of possible future timeline - each one known to the Maykr collective with omniscient, inextricable clarity. The God-mind surveys these timelines, watching them form and expand exponentially like fractal patterns in the fabric of existence"​

"Every Potentiality - Every Predictive Variable of Possible Future Timeline" this statement from the Maykr God-mind codex is a core tenet of the Many Worlds Interpretation. MWI posits that for every possible outcome of a quantum event or decision, a new universe (or world) branches off, containing that specific outcome, the statement every potentiality implys all possible outcomes existing simultaneously or branching.​

"Expand Exponentially Like Fractal Patterns" the fractal patterns directly imply the uncountably infinite aspect of this MWI, every possible outcome (potentiality) leads to a new branch and these branches themselves contain infinite, self-similar detail (like fractals), it means the branching isn't just a countable list of possibilities instead it's an infinitely dense, continuous spectrum of worlds or timelines consistent with an uncountably infinite set​

This would all in all make for a L1-C multiverse at least as there are uncountably infinite points in a straight line (As well as a 2D, 3D, 4D, etc object basically any dimensional structure) and since infinite timelines branch off at each point in time this would make for uncountably infinite timelines which VsBW considers as Low Complex Multiversal​

The Many Worlds Interpretation (MWI) asserts that all quantum possibilities are equally real and separate worlds. For every possible outcome of a quantum event or decision, a new universe branches off, the Maykr God-mind being able to perceive these every potentiality/every predictive variable of possible future timeline confirms this principle for MWI, this signifies that all conceivable futures and outcomes actually exist as distinct 4-D timelines/realities within the Multiverse​

The Codex states these timelines "form and expand exponentially like fractal patterns in the fabric of existence". [Fractals are mathematical sets characterized by infinite complexity and self similarity across all scales, applied to MWI, this implies that the branching of realities occurs with infinite detail even within infinitesimally small segments of a timeline or for any quantum variable that can take a continuous range of values, there are infinitely dense and distinct possibilities this means the resulting set of realities is uncountably infinite, forming a continuous, infinitely complex manifold rather than a merely discrete, countable collection.​

Furthermore, every dimensional structure including time itself (a component of a 4-D spacetime) has uncountably infinite points along it, when MWI's branching principle applies to systems with such inherent uncountably infinite possible arrangements and continuous dimensional points it directly leads to uncountably infinite branching for the timelines.​

The convergence of these points confirms that the Earth's Multiverse functions as an Uncountably Infinite Many Worlds Interpretation, this means it encompasses an uncountably infinite number of parallel 4-D realities/timelines. According to VsBW's standards, a structure containing an uncountably infinite collection of 4-D realities necessitates a higher order dimension (a 5th dimension, often interpreted as a higher temporal or modal axis) to contain or organize them. Therefore, this justification scales Earth's Multiverse at Low 1-C (5-D)​

Urdak (1-C) 6-D : Urdak is explicitly defined as a "higher dimension" that is superior to Multiverse since Earth's Multiverse is established as 5-D a realm that directly "transcends" it points to a 6-D existence Urdak is "completely inaccessible to Humans and Sentinels" this is crucial because the Sentinels (and by extension, the equipped humans) are confirmed to access all of space-time via Argent energy (4:34) Urdak is described as a "higher plane of existence composed of transcendent technology" it was also the "original home of the Father, a Formless Primeval" whose "logic and power gave birth to untold dimensions and worlds" indicating Urdak's fundamental and highly dimensional nature as the source of a dimension creating entity​

Hell (1-C) 7-D : Lore of DOOM states that "Hell is Beyond Urdak" and The Father confirms that "Hell would shatter Urdak outright one day"(4:04) this establishes a clear and destructive qualitative and quantitative superiority over the 6-D Urdak necessitating a higher dimensional tier Hell is described as "BOUND BY THE FORCES OF CHAOS, Hell is unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension". This statement implies a fundamental transcendence over conventional dimensional constraints. Being "unlimited by dimensions" and demonstrably superior to a 6-D realm pushes Hell into the 1-C (7-D) tier as it is beyond the typical dimensional limitations of a 6-D realm (reffering to Urdak)​

The Hellwalker (Doomslayer) would scale to this, since Davoth/The Father created all of DOOM Cosmology with his presence also Hugo directly hints at all of creation being an extension of davoths power, even in his current state​

Considering Doomslayer defeated Davoth who created entire Cosmology of DOOM, he would scale to all of this.​

Agree : Mythic381, Qawsedf234 (Agrees with 5D Multiverse and 6D Urdak), Hellscream​

Neutral :​

Disagree : Qawsedf234 (Disagrees with 7-D Hell)​

I have a few propositions on how you can modify this.
Proposition 1:

1. There are an infinite number of universes in the mortal world, whose cardinality wrt universes is Aleph0.
2. Given the context of doom being a science fiction based saga, the setting of our current earth being in the future, argent requiring rewriting physics (doom 2016), the quantum fields being intrinsically tied to spacetime and electromagnetic fields (hellgrowth codex entry, eternal) and comprising the entire universe as one whole (Hebeth codex entry , TDA), and all the other mentions of quantum fluctuations, aberrations, and an interpretation of Schrodinger's equation (Implicate order, Icon of sin codex entry, Eternal), it is certain that basic aspects of quantum mechanics like wavefunctions (or wavefunctionals if the Quantum fields truly are an offshoot of QF Theory) exist in the verse. (wolfenstein follows the quilted multiverse theory to a degree but I digress). The continuous nature of the fields as per TDA hebeth codex entry should enable this argument even without wavefunctions.
3. Each and every particle in a universe has a three dimensional wave function at any single point in time, in which each point in the space covered by the wavefunction being a possible state. There are uncountably infinite such points in a line, uncountably more in a plane, and so on for a 3d space and 4d spacetime.
4. This results in four levels of an uncountably infinite difference in numerical quantity
5. The universes are infinite sized spacetime continuums so the starting tier is low 2-C (4d).
6. While I dont agree with @Hellscream on the fractal patterns being 1-A, each layer of a fractal pattern is uncountably infinite above the other further supports the above proposition.
7. Therefore while the mortal world is still spatially 3d, quantitative superiority can get it from the equivalent of R^4 (low 2-C) to R^8 (1-C).

I don't exactly remember the current tier justifications for hell and the void, but their tiers will increase correspondingly (from 5D and 6D to 9D and 10D or so in this manner). Note that this is for a single expansion. This construct continuously expands and It would be appreciated if someone better at mathematics take a look at the final number of uncountably infinite quantity gaps after two or more expansions.

Proposal 2:

1. The cosmic realm is spatially at least 4d. ( It has structures of impossible geometry, vast gravitic anomalies, many passageways looping in on themselves endlessly, and pockets of folded space as seen in many secret areas. The endless circular corridors of constant elevation are particularly telling as a torus that never ends requires a higher dimensional space.)
2. The cosmic realm is therefore 5d (also a spacetime continuum).
3. The cosmic realm, as powerful as it is, is still part of the mortal world.
4. The infinite expansions apply to it as well.

Hell, Urdak and the Void increase in tier by at least 1D

 

[Baldiback3162]

The Void was the first thing Davoth created, and all of reality, hell, urdak and the likes "lie" in it. The void "lies" between and around all dimensions in doom.
The engines of creation lie in the void, described to be "on the other side of reality itself.

They breach the Void's "walls" to touch the physical world, implying that the void is non-physical

*note that the dimensional spaces of the universes are included as part of the physical world.

The engines of creation also spin in (into the physical word) and out of existence (back into the void).
The Seraphs create life spheres or revive them using the powers of the Void.

Since the Void of nothingness is completely non-phyiscal and non-existent, it's either 0-D or Low 1-A/1-A by using BDE 2 which im thinking to make a CRT about it in future (maybe, im not sure)

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm completely forgot this thread, but anyway, i'm busy with other things so i can only say

Since the Void of nothingness is completely non-phyiscal and non-existent, it's either 0-D or Low 1-A/1-A by using BDE 2 which im thinking to make a CRT about it in future (maybe, im not sure)

You need evidence of it being actual nonexistent void that devoid time and space, dimensions before you want to argue about BDE, and next you need evidences for it to be vaster than physical reality to argue for BDE type 2. Non-physical isn't enough, because you can have a non-physical structure and still possesses dimensional axes and occupy physical space. After all of this, there is also the need of seeing if there is any anti-feats, in case you want to argue for 1-A

 

[Baldiback3162]

There are an infinite number of universes in the mortal world, whose cardinality wrt universes is Aleph0.

The Mortal World is Multiverse itself, and there are Uncountably infinite amount of universes (by using Fractals and MWI) not countably which would be Aleph1.

Given the context of doom being a science fiction based saga, the setting of our current earth being in the future, argent requiring rewriting physics (doom 2016), the quantum fields being intrinsically tied to spacetime and electromagnetic fields (hellgrowth codex entry, eternal) and comprising the entire universe as one whole (Hebeth codex entry , TDA)

I tried to use Quantum field theory for 5-D Multiverse and it didn't work.

and all the other mentions of quantum fluctuations, aberrations, and an interpretation of Schrodinger's equation (Implicate order, Icon of sin codex entry, Eternal), it is certain that basic aspects of quantum mechanics like wavefunctions (or wavefunctionals if the Quantum fields truly are an offshoot of QF Theory) exist in the verse.

Implicate order would be enough evidence for Schrödinger's equtation but not that more.

The universes are infinite sized spacetime continuums so the starting tier is low 2-C (4d).

I've already argued 4-D Universes.

You need evidence of it being actual nonexistent void that devoid time and space, dimensions before you want to argue about BDE, and next you need evidences for it to be vaster than physical reality to argue for BDE type 2. Non-physical isn't enough, because you can have a non-physical structure and still possesses dimensional axes and occupy physical space. After all of this, there is also the need of seeing if there is any anti-feats, in case you want to argue for 1-A

That's why im not sure.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There are aleph 3 points in a 3d space, so the cardinality of the set of all possible states a particle can be in at any singular point in time is aleph3.

Aleph-2 and higher are High 1-B+ in the Tiering system. I have no idea why you think there's an Aleph-3 amount of anything in the base line universe.

While I dont agree with @Hellscream on the fractal patterns being 1-A, each layer of a fractal pattern is uncountably infinite above the other further supports the above proposition.

That's not what 1-A is. 1-A is about the difference in realness between two areas and one working on a fundamentally superior hierarchy. Things being built on top of each other is an automatic disqualification for 1-A.

Urdak had to use dimensional shift technology to escape the confines of the mortal world and has to keep maintaining it, and even then only achieved "positional" equivalence to hell.

That already means its existing on the same geometric axis as Hell. It being smaller while both are 6D is completely functional within the tiering system.

any anti-feats, in case you want to argue for 1-A

Urdak on its own is an anti-feat. Doom doesn't qualify for R>F for any realm with the evidence currently being presented.

 

[SweetDao]

Sharing Qawsedf234's sentiment here.

 

[Hellscream]

I'm completely forgot this thread, but anyway, i'm busy with other things so i can only say

You need evidence of it being actual nonexistent void that devoid time and space, dimensions before you want to argue about BDE, and next you need evidences for it to be vaster than physical reality to argue for BDE type 2. Non-physical isn't enough, because you can have a non-physical structure and still possesses dimensional axes and occupy physical space. After all of this, there is also the need of seeing if there is any anti-feats, in case you want to argue for 1-A

All of reality came from the void.
So yes, it is far vaster than all of reality in DOOM, including Hell, Urdakk etc
It's stated that inter-dimensional structures spin out of existence breaching the walls of the void, meaning that it is non-existent.
And non-existence itself does not have time.

 

[Hellscream]

Not really, because an uncountable infinite number of universes can be contained within a 5-D space. The only way to get High 1-B currently is to prove that fracticles apply to geometric dimensions, which hasn't been proven.

I see, didn't know that was a requirement

 

[Hellscream]

Urdak on its own is an anti-feat. Doom doesn't qualify for R>F for any realm with the evidence currently being presented.

How is Urdak an anti feat for the void?

 

[Vietthai96]

All of reality came from the void.
So yes, it is far vaster than all of reality in DOOM, including Hell, Urdakk etc
It's stated that inter-dimensional structures spin out of existence breaching the walls of the void, meaning that it is non-existent.
And non-existence itself does not have time.

No?, came from something is hardly an evidences, you need better evidence than that, it could be a supporting argument of course

And no, is it stated to be literal void devoid of dimensions, time and space??, or else you will not get it, because ngl, from what you said, look like you interpreting it to be nonexistent, rather than actual evidence

 

[Hellscream]

No?, came from something is hardly an evidences, you need better evidence than that, it could be a supporting argument of course

And no, is it stated to be literal void devoid of dimensions, time and space??, or else you will not get it, because ngl, from what you said, look like you interpreting it to be nonexistent, rather than actual evidence

reality in doom, aka the physical realm is existence.
The void is non existence.
Existence itself came from the void, as reality bloomed from it.
Most simple way to explain the difference between them.

 

[Vietthai96]

reality in doom, aka the physical realm is existence.
The void is non existence.
Existence itself came from the void, as reality bloomed from it.
Most simple way to explain the difference between them.

Yeah, no?, as much as i could see some reasons in this argument, we need actual evidences, standard is a lot stricter these days, especially if you want to argue for BDE type 2

 

[Baldiback3162]

See the highlights below:

I don't really use High 1-B scale for DOOM but i think we can imply this explantation to Earth's Multiverse

An uncountably infinite quantity, equal to the cardinality of real numbers. This represents vastly larger sets where everything from 1-dimensional space to (countably) infinite-dimensional space falls under it and each space is infinitely larger than the preceding one by the intuitive notions of size. This corresponds to Low 1-C for universes and High 1-B+ for geometric (spatial) dimensions.

Applying this to Multiverse :

"Within the infinite conscious-matrix of the all-seeing Maykr God-mind, there exists every potentiality - every predictive variable of possible future timeline - each one known to the Maykr collective with omniscient, inextricable clarity. The God-mind surveys these timelines, watching them form and expand exponentially like fractal patterns in the fabric of existence"

Infinite Detail and Layers in Fractals since fractal patterns are characterized by infinite self-similarity and detail at every scale with each layer of a fractal pattern is uncountably infinite above other the Maykr God-mind perceives timelines and the fabric of existence as expanding like fractal patterns this implies an inherent structure where zooming in reveals ever more complex, self-similar, and potentially infinite layers of reality

Many mathematical fractals (like the Mandelbrot set or Cantor set) contain an uncountably infinite number of points the layers/depths of these fractal patterns in Earth's Multiverse correspond to distinct, physically existing levels of reality, dimensions, or timelines then these could map to uncountably infinite quantities

For example, if each iteration or depth of the fractal pattern represents a distinct level of dimensional complexity or a new set of infinite timelines that is uncountably larger than the previous one, then this would directly align with the jump from ℵ0 to P(ℵ0) and even higher cardinalities.

Applying them to Geometric dimensions :
“The Hellgrowth formations on Earth have undergone great scrutiny by experts at the Allied Nations. These cancer-like growths exhibit alarming cellular reproduction rates, outpacing any biological lifeform previously known. Their structural pattern is chaotic, almost random, with only one identifiable constant – the emergence of totem-like nests, which, at full maturity, resonate with powerful electromagnetic frequencies capable of producing a form of inverse quantum field. These fields, once activated, result in the fabrication of Hell portals; tears in space-time which serve as gateways between dimensions.” - Hellgrowth part 1

The codex basically states that its chaotic structural pattern directly creates tears in space-time and gateways between dimensions. This is critical because it shows that chaos (which underlies fractal geometry) isn't just abstract it has a direct, physical, and geometric impact on the Multiverse. Chaos can tear through dimensions and these tears lead to higher dimensional spaces, so the chaotic/fractal nature of the cosmology itself applys to geometric dimensions.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't really use High 1-B scale for DOOM but i think we can imply this explantation to Earth's Multiverse

The biggest issue I'm seeing is that nothing links the fractals to geometric dimensions. Even the Hell Totems that open rifts to Hell aren't using dimensions in a geometric sense but in a universe sense.

You're assuming that fractals are recursive in a geometric sense rather than a universal sense. But them being recursive is already acknowledged by the multiverse being Low 1-C.

dimensional complexity or a new set of infinite timelines that is uncountably larger than the previous one, then this would directly align with the jump from ℵ0 to P(ℵ0) and even higher cardinalities.

I'm not seeing dimensional complexity. It's just universes splitting off and compounding infinitely. Additionally the evidence presented wouldn't get you into Aleph-2 or higher afaik.

 

[Mythic381]

Sharing @Qawsedf234's sentiment here.

Meaning you agree with 5D multiverse, 6D Urdak and disagree with 7D Hell?

 

[Dicelium]

I'm completely forgot this thread, but anyway, i'm busy with other things so i can only say

You need evidence of it being actual nonexistent void that devoid time and space, dimensions before you want to argue about BDE, and next you need evidences for it to be vaster than physical reality to argue for BDE type 2. Non-physical isn't enough, because you can have a non-physical structure and still possesses dimensional axes and occupy physical space. After all of this, there is also the need of seeing if there is any anti-feats, in case you want to argue for 1-A

Addressing the vastness wrt physical reality, it is the container for all of reality, the separator for each reality, etc. A simple analogy (yes i am aware its grossly incapable of describing it) is that of planets being realities and outer space being the void. It was previously accepted as a larger higher dimensional structure than everything else here.

It is written by the Seraphs that when the void first appeared, the Father alone swept across it. New realities bloomed where he lingered, and when he stopped to rest, Urdak sprung forth from him. Here, the Father experimented until he created Jekkad, a realm superior to Urdak.

If you have any further doubts regarding the size difference you can read the lamentation of the seraphs for the full context, linked above.
Regarding it being devoid of space, time, dimensions etc., note that it being "beyond reality and existence itself (in a superior manner), non-physical and formless", is with respect to different dimensional structures of varying dimensionality, so it itself isn't a dimensional space.

And i think i mentioned it already but just to traverse the void, hell needed to make "pathways of darkness transcending space and time", further supporting the notion that it isn't dimensional.
But I don't really see concrete qualitative superiority off this for now, as per the wiki's criteria.

 

[Dicelium]

Aleph-2 and higher are High 1-B+ in the Tiering system. I have no idea why you think there's an Aleph-3 amount of anything in the base line universe.


That's not what 1-A is. 1-A is about the difference in realness between two areas and one working on a fundamentally superior hierarchy. Things being built on top of each other is an automatic disqualification for 1-A.


That already means its existing on the same geometric axis as Hell. It being smaller while both are 6D is completely functional within the tiering system.


Urdak on its own is an anti-feat. Doom doesn't qualify for R>F for any realm with the evidence currently being presented.

Aleph-2 and higher are High 1-B+ in the Tiering system. I have no idea why you think there's an Aleph-3 amount of anything in the base line universe.

I am talking about the number of possibilities in each universe, not the dimensionality of the space, which is specified to still be 3d, and I have already explained why there is an aleph-3 amount of possibilities in a baseline universe. Please address the explanation rather than just the conclusion alone.

That's not what 1-A is. 1-A is about the difference in realness between two areas and one working on a fundamentally superior hierarchy. Things being built on top of each other is an automatic disqualification for 1-A.

When I said "supports the above proposition." , I was referring to the +4D change I proposed, not the 1-A @Hellscream proposed. To reiterate it, I am using the increasing complexity of fractal patterns as indirect supporting evidence for the number of timelines from the first expansion.

That already means its existing on the same geometric axis as Hell. It being smaller while both are 6D is completely functional within the tiering system.

Not really, the codex puts these positional terms within quotations and we already know that the void isn't dimensional. But the arguments here so far don't truly support it being a whole cardinality larger either. How is urdak an antifeat for the void though? I can see the thought process behind it for everything else, but the void?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I am talking about the number of possibilities in each universe, not the dimensionality of the space

An Aleph-2 amount of anything tangible would be a High 1-B proposal. Aleph-2 and higher are power sets of all power sets.

Please address the explanation rather than just the conclusion alone

The conclusion reached doesn't make sense with the narrative you're pushing.

How is urdak an antifeat for the void though?

I had mentally swapped the Void for Hell for some reason when I made that statement.

 

[Mythic381]

About the Void, if you argue it to be nonexistent void, then it can't 8D, based on our current standard, a nonexistent void mean it is non-physical, non-physical mean it is undimensioned, so either it is 0D or BDE type 2 which is either Low 1-A or 1-A at least. But from the OP, look like you think and interpreting it to be a non-physical void, rather than outright being stated so, so idk what to say about it, but it is certainly not +1D compare to Hell, simply being the place that contain all of existence is not enough for a +1D.

I don't think there's any actual indications of the void being actually undimensioned except it being called "void", also wasn't the Void accepted as 6D via that reasoning?

 

[Hellscream]

I don't think there's any actual indications of the void being actually undimensioned except it being called "void", also wasn't the Void accepted as 6D via that reasoning?

There is actually, just hasn't been brought up in prior threads
Edit: the void is non dimensional, not undimensional

 

[Mythic381]

There is actually, just hasn't been brought up in prior threads

I see. Can you slide some? (in profile posts because I don't want to derail this thread more)

 

[Vietthai96]

the void is non dimensional, not undimensional

non dimensional and undimensioned is the same you know??

 

[Dicelium]

An Aleph-2 amount of anything tangible would be a High 1-B proposal. Aleph-2 and higher are power sets of all power sets.

The conclusion reached doesn't make sense with the narrative you're pushing.

I had mentally swapped the Void for Hell for some reason when I made that statement.

Ahhh my bad. Then i would replace the aleph terms with "uncountably infinite difference", equal to that of R^n+1 as compared to n. I will edit the message to reflect that for clarity.

 

[Vietthai96]

wait, slightly unrelated, but is Dark Age have any new lore???, i couldn't play it due to not having good PC

 

[Dicelium]

wait, slightly unrelated, but is Dark Age have any new lore???, i couldn't play it due to not having good PC

Yes. It introduces the cosmic realm, which is most certainly 5D, as part of the mortal world.
Read all codex entries here (spoilers obviously)

 

[Baldiback3162]

Even the Hell Totems that open rifts to Hell aren't using dimensions in a geometric sense but in a universe sense.

I completely forget it, my bad.

You're assuming that fractals are recursive in a geometric sense rather than a universal sense. But them being recursive is already acknowledged by the multiverse being Low 1-C.

True, im using them as a evidence of Low 1-C Multiverse which is consistent.

I'm not seeing dimensional complexity. It's just universes splitting off and compounding infinitely. Additionally the evidence presented wouldn't get you into Aleph-2 or higher afaik.

So it will get to Aleph1 got it, i have a question so Hell was accepted as a 5-D structure yet Davoth was scaled to 6-D via reality and all of creation being an extension of davoth considering Hell is 6-D with new upgrade aren't Davoth would be 7-D with same logic?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So it will get to Aleph1 got it, i have a question so Hell was accepted as a 5-D structure yet Davoth was scaled to 6-D via reality and all of creation being an extension of davoth considering Hell is 6-D with new upgrade aren't Davoth would be 7-D with same logic?

Yeah. If Davoth scaled to 6D for being dimensionally superior to Hell, then after the upgrade he would be 7D.

 

[Baldiback3162]

Yeah. If Davoth scaled to 6D for being dimensionally superior to Hell, then after the upgrade he would be 7D.

Alright thanks for answers, another question do you consider rest of games in ID Software being canon to DOOM francheise?

 

[Baldiback3162]

Yeah. If Davoth scaled to 6D for being dimensionally superior to Hell, then after the upgrade he would be 7D.

I've edited both Cosmology blog and Original post, so i've made Hell and Urdak at 6-D, considering Davoth was accepted as 6-D for being dimensionally superior to Cosmology (reality being an extension of davoth) after this, he would be 7-D and Doomslayer would scale to him (since Doomslayer literally killed Dark Lord itself)

So, now do you still disagree with some part of this scale or agree?

 

[Hellscream]

wait, slightly unrelated, but is Dark Age have any new lore???, i couldn't play it due to not having good PC

Not that much honestly, but there will be more lore according to hugo.
Atleast we have the infinite density mace.

 

[Dicelium]

I have a few propositions on how you can modify this.
Proposition 1:

1. There are an infinite number of universes in the mortal world, whose cardinality wrt universes is Aleph0.
2. Given the context of doom being a science fiction based saga, the setting of our current earth being in the future, argent requiring rewriting physics (doom 2016), the quantum fields being intrinsically tied to spacetime and electromagnetic fields (hellgrowth codex entry, eternal) and comprising the entire universe as one whole (Hebeth codex entry , TDA), and all the other mentions of quantum fluctuations, aberrations, and an interpretation of Schrodinger's equation (Implicate order, Icon of sin codex entry, Eternal), it is certain that basic aspects of quantum mechanics like wavefunctions (or wavefunctionals if the Quantum fields truly are an offshoot of QF Theory) exist in the verse. (wolfenstein follows the quilted multiverse theory to a degree but I digress). The continuous nature of the fields as per TDA hebeth codex entry should enable this argument even without wavefunctions.
3. Each and every particle in a universe has a three dimensional wave function at any single point in time, in which each point in the space covered by the wavefunction being a possible state. There are uncountably infinite such points in a line, uncountably more in a plane, and so on for a 3d space and 4d spacetime.
4. This results in four levels of an uncountably infinite difference in numerical quantity
5. The universes are infinite sized spacetime continuums so the starting tier is low 2-C (4d).
6. While I dont agree with @Hellscream on the fractal patterns being 1-A, each layer of a fractal pattern is uncountably infinite above the other further supports the above proposition regarding the amount of possibilities.
7. Therefore while the mortal world is still spatially 3d, quantitative superiority can get it from the equivalent of R^4 (low 2-C) to R^8 (1-C).

Hell and the void will have their tiers increase correspondingly (from 5D and 6D to 9D and 10D or so in this manner). Note that this is for a single expansion. This construct continuously expands and It would be appreciated if someone better at mathematics take a look at the final number of uncountably infinite quantity gaps after two or more expansions.

Proposal 2:

1. The cosmic realm is spatially at least 4d. ( It has structures of impossible geometry, vast gravitic anomalies, many passageways looping in on themselves endlessly, and pockets of folded space as seen in many secret areas. The endless circular corridors of constant elevation are particularly telling as a torus that never ends requires a higher dimensional space.)
2. The cosmic realm is therefore 5d (also a spacetime continuum).
3. The cosmic realm, as powerful as it is, is still part of the mortal world.
4. The infinite expansions apply to it as well.

Conclusion for proposal 2: Hell, Urdak and the Void increase in tier by at least 1D

@Qawsedf234 @Baldiback3162 @Hellscream are there any issues with this?
TLDR there are 4 levels of an uncountably infinite difference in terms of quantities of possibilities in a universe. Each possibility is physically realized. thus the scaling increases by an equivalent of +R^4, rather than just R^1 that @Baldiback3162 is proposing.

 

[Baldiback3162]

thus the scaling increases by an equivalent of +R^4, rather than just R^1 that @Baldiback3162 is proposing.

Im not really sure.

Also do you agree to my scale or disagree with it?