Rebirth Superman vs Zero

[Theglassman12]

Given the recent Megaman buffs I figured why not. I was planning on using X but his page isn't as up to date as Zero's so close enough. Speed is equalized and it takes place on Storm Eagle's ship.

Superman: 5 (Rex_Eckles, Emirp_suptimo, HyperTornado, NotoriouSoda, Maverick_Zero_X)

Zero: 7 (SOULOFCINDER, Theglassman12, TyranoDoom30, Migue79, Mister6ame6, Reploidnoridomix, Kazuma Kuwabara)

They both learn what they're fighting for and team up (Incon):

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Well, Superman's 2-C value is higher than Zero's, so this would be a one-shot.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Superman's AP is roughly 1.9x of Zero's. This may be a one shot.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Superman's AP is roughly 1.9x of Zero's. This may be a one shot.

Doesn't this wiki consider the differences in universe destruction a beyond infinite amount?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Doesn't this wiki consider the differences in universe destruction a beyond infinite amount?

It does.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

So, what can Zero do here? If Superman blinks, the shockwave will oneshot Zero.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, what can Zero do here? If Superman blinks, the shockwave will oneshot Zero.

Well Zero does have one saving grace. Superman won't immediately try to kill him, and even if he does kill him, Zero has a bunch of revives to potentially defeat him with his Hax.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Well Zero does have one saving grace. Superman won't immediately try to kill him, and even if he does kill him, Zero has a bunch of revives to potentially defeat him with his Hax.

Well, there's that, yeah. Hm, what does Zero have?

 

[Arkansalter2]

Well Zero does have one saving grace. Superman won't immediately try to kill him, and even if he does kill him, Zero has a bunch of revives to potentially defeat him with his Hax.

Just for Superman to literally fart and pretty much insta incap Zero.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well, there's that, yeah. Hm, what does Zero have?

He has Layered Time Stop and Layered Absolute Zero.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

He has Layered Time Stop and Layered Absolute Zero.

Layered eh? Yeah, that could be a problem. Anything else?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Layered eh? Yeah, that could be a problem. Anything else?

Nothing else I see that would get past Clark's wall of Resistances unless I missed something.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Nothing else I see that would get past Clark's wall of Resistances unless I missed something.

Does Zero have counters for Clark's energy absorption, BFR, and durability negation (not like he needs it, but it's still something)?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Does Zero have counters for Clark's energy absorption, BFR, and durability negation (not like he needs it, but it's still something)?

Zero resists BFR from Gravity Beetle but its not on his profile for some reason despite X having it when they both can fight him in X3 and not get yeeted but I'm sure Supes has higher dimensional BFR or some shit. Durability Negation won't even come out since its unnecessary and the energy absorption depends on how it works because Zero can absorb energy too with one of his weapons.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Zero resists BFR from Gravity Beetle but its not on his profile for some reason despite X having it when they both can fight him in X3 and not get yeeted but I'm sure Supes has higher dimensional BFR or some shit. Durability Negation won't even come out since its unnecessary and the energy absorption depends on how it works because Zero can absorb energy too with one of his weapons.

The Energy Absorption allows him to effectively gain strength from being electrocity and borrow geothermal energy from the Earth itself.

The BFR can be multiple things: via punching a hole in space-time and throwing Zero through it or vibrating Zero out of the universe (like he did to a phantom planet).

Zero seems to have a stamina advantage (though Clark can fight for a very, very long time) and range advantage with Cyber-Elves (or something). Though Superman has a pretty large LS advantage and can turn intangible (his profile is categorized under intangibility users so it's fair game).

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

AP aside it seems if Supes grabs Zero it's over.

Stellar vs Class Z Lifting Strength

 

[Theglassman12]

Wouldn’t the Cyber Elves hax be enough to incap Superman since they’re using info type 2 hax, something he doesn’t resist?

 

[Keeweed]

Nothing else I see that would get past Clark's wall of Resistances unless I missed something.

Superman also resist cold far below absolute zero from captain cold. So that doesn’t work.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Wouldn’t the Cyber Elves hax be enough to incap Superman since they’re using info type 2 hax, something he doesn’t resist?

It depends how it works, I suppose.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wouldn’t the Cyber Elves hax be enough to incap Superman since they’re using info type 2 hax, something he doesn’t resist?

I keep forgetting he has that now. Would that allow them to bypass Supes Resistances to stuff they do since he doesn't resist the main mechanic behind how the hax even functions?

 

[Theglassman12]

If the cyber elves’ main gimmick is that they’re controlling information itself to do these things then I’d argue that their application of the hax would be something foreign to Supes, making him vulnerable to said abilities. It’s akin to having matter manipulation to turn someone into another creature or something and compare it to normal transmutation magic. One’s a very specific type of ability being pulled off and the other is another kind that don’t always cross over so resisting one ability doesn’t mean you resist the other.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

If the cyber elves’ main gimmick is that they’re controlling information itself to do these things then I’d argue that their application of the hax would be something foreign to Supes, making him vulnerable to said abilities. It’s akin to having matter manipulation to turn someone into another creature or something and compare it to normal transmutation magic. One’s a very specific type of ability being pulled off and the other is another kind that don’t always cross over so resisting one ability doesn’t mean you resist the other.

Maybe, but then again Superman's resisted reality warping from a 1-A+ being, I wonder if higher dimensionality ultimately overrules how this Cyber Elf information technique?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If the cyber elves’ main gimmick is that they’re controlling information itself to do these things then I’d argue that their application of the hax would be something foreign to Supes, making him vulnerable to said abilities. It’s akin to having matter manipulation to turn someone into another creature or something and compare it to normal transmutation magic. One’s a very specific type of ability being pulled off and the other is another kind that don’t always cross over so resisting one ability doesn’t mean you resist the other.

Well in that case Zero recognizes he's screwed after seeing he can't hurt this dude with his attacks and haxes the utter hell out of Supes because Zero is a very no-nonsense kind of guy.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Well in that case Zero recognizes he's screwed after seeing he can't hurt this dude with his attacks and haxes the utter hell out of Supes because Zero is a very no-nonsense kind of guy.

It might take some time for Zero to cycle to a hax that actually works on Clark, since he wouldn't necessarily know which ones will and won't work.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It might take some time for Zero to cycle to a hax that actually works on Clark, since he wouldn't necessarily know which ones will and won't work.

He has a bunch of lives to figure it out.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

He has a bunch of lives to figure it out.

Fair. How do his lives work anyway?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Fair. How do his lives work anyway?

He explodes into particles and gets resurrected at the cost of one of his Cyber Elves.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

He explodes into particles and gets resurrected at the cost of one of his Cyber Elves.

How many times can he do that?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

How many times can he do that?

At least ten times.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

At least ten times.

Hm, that does make this close then. Both have haxes that can incap the other, and physically Superman wins every category (it's a one-shot afterall). The question is can Superman drain Zero of his Cyber Elves before Zero comes up with the right hax to win?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Hm, that does make this close then. Both have haxes that can incap the other, and physically Superman wins every category (it's a one-shot afterall). The question is can Superman drain Zero of his Cyber Elves before Zero comes up with the right hax to win?

Honestly I don't see it happening since he can also use Time Stopper to freeze Clark for a little while and then start cycling through powers to figure out what works mostly unopposed.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Honestly I don't see it happening since he can also use Time Stopper to freeze Clark for a little while and then start cycling through powers to figure out what works mostly unopposed.

Did we agree on whether or not the Information Manipulation (or whatever) thing would work on Superman? I think it came down to whether or not Superman's higher dimensional resistances would suffice.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Rex_Eckles that’s not really tied to information hax and he doesn’t even resist info hax on his page so he’d still be susceptible to it

 

[KLOL506]

Did we agree on whether or not the Information Manipulation (or whatever) thing would work on Superman? I think it came down to whether or not Superman's higher dimensional resistances would suffice.

Higher-dimensional hax per se isn't a thing anymore. A lot of hax lost smurf level unless it's 1-A, minus some few exceptions and a few key esoteric haxes

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Fair enough.

How in-character would it be for Zero to use his more effective haxes?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Fair enough.

How in-character would it be for Zero to use his more effective haxes?

Using a Cyber Elf kills them (something they're totally fine with for the record and even implore you to do so Zero doesn't die) so if he can avoid doing it at all he will, but at the same time he's not suicidal so if he needs to use one he will.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Using a Cyber Elf kills them (something they're totally fine with for the record and even implore you to do so Zero doesn't die) so if he can avoid doing it all he will, but at the same time he's not suicidal so if he needs to use one he will.

I see. I may favor Zero, but not before Superman incaps him out of a good number of his lives.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I see. I may favor Zero, but not before Superman incaps him out of a good number of his lives.

The revives only trigger if Zero dies, not getting incapacitated. That being said, I'm actually uncertain if Supes just grappling and restraining him would even work since Zero can teleport and turn intangible with certain equip and moves.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

The revives only trigger if Zero dies, not getting incapacitated. That being said, I'm actually uncertain if Supes just grappling and restraining him would even work since Zero can teleport and turn intangible with certain equip and moves.

Superman can negate intangibility with his heat vision or just turning intangible himself. Vibrations are weirdly his thing.

I'm pretty sure Clark will be more willing to put Zero down after realizing he's a robot, heck he might accidentally kill him in the first life when they initially exchange blows.

 

[Osemere]

@Rex_Eckles that’s not really tied to information hax and he doesn’t even resist info hax on his page so he’d still be susceptible to it

Information type 2 is more accurately a subset of reality warping since it’s defined in terms of manipulating the fundamentals of reality as defined in information, so someone resisting their reality being warped on a higher ontological level wouldn’t be affected by someone on the same plane of reality trying to warp the part of existence relating to you into something else.