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Ubel vs Boa 2: Now with more Kachon

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Delusionaltx2 said:
I already explained but I'll just say it again

Marines don't immediately kill pirates they capture them so they can be executed later however they are inclined to kill if necessary which most characters in one piece don't deem so at the start of the fight like ubel here.
Click to expand...
A guy got half of his body eviscerated by Boa Hancock and she said "I'm beautiful" and he immediately folded. Please rest this point. Ubel gets stoned.
 
Put Ubel against Law and see how that one shakes out (both bond over their shared interest of splitting things)
 
Zabazab said:
But it's not a resistance to sealing or paralysis, is it? It's resistance to devil fruit powers, is it not?
Click to expand...
It's a general resistance to the properties that they have, unlike seastone there's no specific reason they are exclusive to devil fruits only and are instead just willpower being built different
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Tbf this is like saying none of reinhard’s resistances are applicable because it’s resistance to magic powers
Click to expand...
This is correct. The divine protection of fire avoidance is useless against non-magical fire. It's a resistance to fire magic, not fire overall. Same goes for devil fruits and Haki, you need proof it can defend against non-DF sealing and paralysis.

What makes Reinhard's list of resistances busted is that they come in pairs and sometimes threes. Fire Avoidance only works with magic, but Fireplay protects him from general fire. Same for Water Drainage and Waterplay, Mud Slippage and Sandplay, etc.
 
Zabazab said:
This is correct. The divine protection of fire avoidance is useless against non-magical fire. It's a resistance to fire magic, not fire overall. Same goes for devil fruits and Haki, you need proof it can defend against non-DF sealing and paralysis.
Click to expand...
Detective_Blizzard said:
It's a general resistance to the properties that they have, unlike seastone there's no specific reason they are exclusive to devil fruits only and are instead just willpower being built different
Click to expand...
Please read or ask for information instead of mindlessly standing by your assumptions.
 
Kachon123 said:
Kuma literally had his mind, emotions, memories and feelings completely wiped and yet his body was influenced to save Bonney pretty much post-mortem canonically through the power of love
Click to expand...
Kuma still cared for bonney as a loving father so there was still some connection there beforehand which wouldn't apply to ubel since unlike kuma ubel will just kill anything
Kachon123 said:
Sanji got his soul stolen and inserted into another body where his will and mind were being completely controlled by Gecko Moria yet he was able to bypass his control and protect Nami canonically through the power of love
Click to expand...
Similar to above comment only sanji is a pervert and a d1 simp for nami
Kachon123 said:
Garp is able to interact with Luffy's soul canonically through the power of love
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Wasn't that a gag that was later just implied to be through haki?
Kachon123 said:
Hancock quite literally weaponizes this same emotion to where it can affect beings with lesser brains/no brains at all that shouldn't be able to feel attraction such as snails, birds, plants, so the argument that Ubel's brain is underdeveloped when it comes to feeling love holds absolutely no weight here.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly the argument. The argument is that for boas si to work she would have to be able to do this without needing to attack. There is nothing that suggests she can do this to ubel through a simple glance and the fact she has to actually attack pasifista to turn them to stone in oppose to just looking at them supports this
Kachon123 said:


Sorganeil also would not work against Boa Hancock.
  1. Haki completely resists paralysis inducement as well as sealing
Click to expand...
Gonna look at this later but at the time of the last thread haki had no such thing
Kachon123 said:
  1. Sorganeil being able to stop mana control has no bearing on Hancock's usage of Haki as its literally her willpower manifest
Click to expand...
Sorganell does this through sealing it away (it's in the justification) unless haki can't get sealed away (which tbf I'll look at after finishing this reply) then haki will be effected
Kachon123 said:
  1. Sorganeil only works when every part of Hancock's body is in her view. Hancock's snake, Salome, is always on her side and would attack Ubel in Hancock's sted if need be
Click to expand...
I already explained this in the thread as well but salamoe is on boas shoulder so she'll 100% be in her POV
Kachon123 said:
  1. Hancock has Kenbunshoku Haki which grants her high level precognition as well as a reaction statistic amplification that would allow her to always make the first move
Click to expand...
Ken haki was deemed useless because

1 she has to activate it first

2 sorganell isn't dodgable the moment boa is in her pov she can just activate it instantly without needing to move or do anything. It'll just spawn on her and that'll be that
 
Kachon123 said:
Please read or ask for information instead of mindlessly standing by your assumptions.
Click to expand...
Were you really so offended that you felt a need to call me mindless, when this is what the haki page says?
Click to expand...

Resistance to devil fruit abilities. Zero suggestions it'd let you resist the likes of magic or techniology or ESP.
 
Anyway if it wasn't clear enough I vote Haki for my (and Kachon's) reasons above alongside the fact that in the battle of standard tactics one aims for the (metaphorical) legs while the other aims for the (not metaphorical) head.
 
Kachon123 said:
A guy got half of his body eviscerated by Boa Hancock and she said "I'm beautiful" and he immediately folded. Please rest this point. Ubel gets stoned.
Click to expand...
How does this answer the argument?

"Marines aren't always bloodlusted when they fight pirates"

"A marine saw a guy get demolished but got sied and folded anyway"

Did the marine get bloodlusted beforehand? Was it to the same extent as ubel who kills anything with no second thoughts? What are we proving here?
 
Delusionaltx2 said:
Kuma still cared for bonney as a loving father so there was still some connection there beforehand which wouldn't apply to ubel since unlike kuma ubel will just kill anything
Click to expand...
Kuma had no semblance of his mind left.
Delusionaltx2 said:
Similar to above comment only sanji is a pervert and a d1 simp for nami
Click to expand...
It was the ideal to never kick a woman in general, not Nami specifically.
Delusionaltx2 said:
Wasn't that a gag that was later just implied to be through haki?
Click to expand...
It was directly asked if it was Haki and Oda answered that it was explicitly not through Haki but through the power of love. It's not a gag.
Delusionaltx2 said:
That's not exactly the argument. The argument is that for boas si to work she would have to be able to do this without needing to attack. There is nothing that suggests she can do this to ubel through a simple glance and the fact she has to actually attack pasifista to turn them to stone in oppose to just looking at them supports this
Click to expand...
I never once mentioned the Pacifista. ANIMALS swoon for her. This is what a snail's brain looks like.
Delusionaltx2 said:
Sorganell does this through sealing it away (it's in the justification) unless haki can't get sealed away (which tbf I'll look at after finishing this reply) then haki will be effected
Click to expand...
It's not sealing away Hancock's willpower.
Delusionaltx2 said:
I already explained this in the thread as well but salamoe is on boas shoulder so she'll 100% be in her POV
Click to expand...
Ubel has no precognition unlike Hancock. Salome needs to be looking at Salome specifically. It's what let Ubel win against her copy.
Delusionaltx2 said:
Ken haki was deemed useless because

1 she has to activate it first

2 sorganell isn't dodgable the moment boa is in her pov she can just activate it instantly without needing to move or do anything. It'll just spawn on her and that'll be that
Click to expand...
Kenbunshoku Haki is a subconscious, always active ability.

Hancock has a reaction speed amp. She's turning Ubel to stone before she even tries.
 
Boa fra+Ubel's a jobber+(ngl i hate Ubel)
Delusionaltx2 said:
Sorganell does this through sealing it away (it's in the justification) unless haki can't get sealed away (which tbf I'll look at after finishing this reply) then haki will be effected
Click to expand...
"she can completely halt the movements of any person in her line of sight and prevent them from accessing their mana for spells" it specifically says mana, why would it apply to haki
 
Delusionaltx2 said:
How does this answer the argument?

"Marines aren't always bloodlusted when they fight pirates"

"A marine saw a guy get demolished but got sied and folded anyway"

Did the marine get bloodlusted beforehand? Was it to the same extent as ubel who kills anything with no second thoughts? What are we proving here?
Click to expand...
What...? He was fighting Hancock, got half of his body destroyed, was going to kill her in rage, she looked at him, he folded in love.
 
Zabazab said:
Well yes because it has a feat, hence why it's listed separate from "Resistance to Devil Fruits".
Click to expand...
And yet we also have Haki resisting effects of Haki and it's not categorized as such. The resistance to Devil Fruits isn't listed as such because of limitation, its listed as such because of sheer quantity and that a collective list of every single ability it covers isn't there.

If it was limited to just Devil Fruits there would be a note about it in the weakness section, which there isn't.
 
Catbowtie said:
Ohhh. Lye Batenkaitos is talking about Verse Equalization lol
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't see any reason Haki can be equated with mana, but that doesn't remove the resistances it has to abilities. Until there's a specific reason Haki negs devil fruits beyond 'It built different' it's just a will-based power system that's highly resistant. (Even if there was a reason, knowing the way this story is turning I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being Subjective Reality where you are literally willing yourself to not be effected)
 
Detective_Blizzard said:
And yet we also have Haki resisting effects of Haki and it's not categorized as such. The resistance to Devil Fruits isn't listed as such because of limitation, its listed as such because of sheer quantity and that a collective list of every single ability it covers isn't there.

If it was limited to just Devil Fruits there would be a note about it in the weakness section, which there isn't.
Click to expand...
I don't believe you. OP supporters have had years and plenty of manpower to make an exhaustive list of resistances granted by Haki.

Until there is such a list of resistances on the page, or it's clarified on the page that "Resistace to Devil Fruits" also means "Resistance to not-Devil Fruits", you can't claim that haki's resistance extends to more than just devil fruits, just as someone with magic resistance can't resist non-magic, and someone who negates mana can't nullify haki.
 
Kachon123 said:
Kuma had no semblance of his mind left.
Click to expand...
Yeah but his body can still subconsciously see bonney as his daughter
Kachon123 said:
It was the ideal to never kick a woman in general, not Nami specifically.
Click to expand...
That's still a connection and in fact it's an even deeper one since that's sanjis whole philosophy
Kachon123 said:
It was directly asked if it was Haki and Oda answered that it was explicitly not through Haki but through the power of love. It's not a gag.
Click to expand...
What suggests this isn't a gag? Outside of this one instance we never see garp use "the power of love" in combat applicable mannor or even bring it up outside of instances where there is a clear connection (Luffy)
Kachon123 said:
I never once mentioned the Pacifista. ANIMALS swoon for her. This is what a snail's brain looks like.
Click to expand...
You mentioned this in the last thread which is what I assumed was a part of your argument for her being able to si bloodlusted enemies
Kachon123 said:
It's not sealing away Hancock's willpower.
Click to expand...
Hancock still has to actually weaponize the willpower through haki you know that right?
Kachon123 said:
Ubel has no precognition unlike Hancock. Salome needs to be looking at Salome specifically. It's what let Ubel win against her copy.
Click to expand...
Yeah so she's in her line of sight which is what's specified for the ability to work
Kachon123 said:
Kenbunshoku Haki is a subconscious, always active ability.
Click to expand...
Since it's a subconscious ability unless you can prove can use it subconsciously in a combat applicable manner the point would still stand
Kachon123 said:
Hancock has a reaction speed amp. She's turning Ubel to stone before she even tries.
Click to expand...
Again she has to use the amp before ubel sees her which isn't possible
 
Kachon123 said:
What...? He was fighting Hancock, got half of his body destroyed, was going to kill her in rage, she looked at him, he folded in love.
Click to expand...
So...

  • this guy doesn't instantly go for the kill proving my point
  • got si'd before he even got bloodlusted...

Again where is the argument? I'm just as confused as you are here
 
Kachon123 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kachon123/kjewkwj

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

And if people like you keep crying about it I'll take even longer to finish it
Click to expand...

It's a cool sandbox, I'm sure it's taken a lot of work, but it isn't this
Zabazab said:
Until there is such a list of resistances on the page, or it's clarified on the page that "Resistace to Devil Fruits" also means "Resistance to not-Devil Fruits", you can't claim that haki's resistance extends to more than just devil fruits, just as someone with magic resistance can't resist non-magic, and someone who negates mana can't nullify haki.
Click to expand...
 
Delusionaltx2 said:
Yeah but his body can still subconsciously see bonney as his daughter
Click to expand...
This is factually untrue.
Delusionaltx2 said:
That's still a connection and in fact it's an even deeper one since that's sanjis whole philosophy
Click to expand...
There would be no connection any longer to due Moria's power.
Delusionaltx2 said:
What suggests this isn't a gag? Outside of this one instance we never see garp use "the power of love" in combat applicable mannor or even bring it up outside of instances where there is a clear connection (Luffy)
Click to expand...
The fact that someone asked

"Hey Oda Garp was able to punch and hurt Luffy. Was it Haki or the power of love"
and he responded
"It was the power of love, in this case."

What suggests that this is a gag?
Delusionaltx2 said:
Hancock still has to actually weaponize the willpower through haki you know that right?
Click to expand...
Via willpower manipulation.
Delusionaltx2 said:
Yeah so she's in her line of sight which is what's specified for the ability to work
Click to expand...
With Spell of Binding: Sorganeil, she can completely halt the movements of any person in her line of sight and prevent them from accessing their mana for spells, under the condition that the target's entire body— including their hair— is within her vision
Click to expand...
How would Salome's entire body be seen by Ubel when half of her is wrapped around Hancock's body?
Delusionaltx2 said:
Since it's a subconscious ability unless you can prove can use it subconsciously in a combat applicable manner the point would still stand
Click to expand...
???? You have to learn to use it subconsciously in order for it to be combat applicable. Have you ever read One Piece?
6uSq6X2.png

Delusionaltx2 said:
Again she has to use the amp before ubel sees her which isn't possible
Click to expand...
The amp happens simultaneously as the precog and everything else occurs.
 
Zabazab said:
I don't believe you. OP supporters have had years and plenty of manpower to make an exhaustive list of resistances granted by Haki.
Click to expand...
Just because something has a metric ton of supporters, doesn't mean they can accomplish everything/that they are all willing to do stuff.

One strongest trooper can do a lot more than an inactive army can, and I'd help with the list myself if I wasn't busy revamping a 60 year old franchise from the ground up brick by brick

And just because you decided to sass someone for actually putting in the hard work...

Zabazab said:
Until there is such a list of resistances on the page, or it's clarified on the page that "Resistace to Devil Fruits" also means "Resistance to not-Devil Fruits", you can't claim that haki's resistance extends to more than just devil fruits, just as someone with magic resistance can't resist non-magic, and someone who negates mana can't nullify haki.
Click to expand...
That's a cool point, but that's not how the current standard is and it's a false equivalent. Magic is a concept with generalized idea, Devil Fruits are a wide variety of things that can range from "I shoot fire at you" to "Literally being hit with an elephant" done via biological traits. Resistance to Devil Fruit abilities doesn't make you resistant to specifically Devil Fruit Rhinos, because that's not how it works. It's resistant to the effects because they can resist said effects, not because of any unique property of a devil fruit. If you have an issue with how the verse is then by all means make a CRT for it on why Haki is somehow related to water or can only apply to devil fruits and such should be added to the weaknesses.
 
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