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As continued from this thread, which got too messy in trying to introduce too many problems to fix at once, instead trying to fix things little-by-little, only for the new dawn to find itself yet a smidgen brighter and brighter; a dawn of rebirth, of renewal, of… better DC Comics profiles!
To recap, all herald 2-Cs scale to 52 universes through Barbatos, even pre-crisis 2-Cs, because of the instance in Barbatos’ AP justification involving the weakening of the 52 universes in the Orrery. This scaling is due to Death Metal Superman knocking out Barbatos with one punch, and is backscaled to Superman in Post-Crisis due to this Superman being weakened from Anti-Life exposure. Pre-Crisis heralds then scale to Earth-2 Superman who scales to Post-Crisis Superman, so the entire current 2-C scaling chain is based on this.
The issue? Barbatos is rated as 1-A on his profile, and obviously we can’t have a rating scaled from a 1-A character if all these characters are subsequently not even tier 1. Now, this isn’t even the only problem, as there are other big issues in Barbatos’ rating and who he scales to:
I propose we split Barbatos into two keys, one “in-multiverse” key which is 2-C (for the heralds to scale to), and the other for one “in the World Forge”, which would be 1-A+ instead of merely 1-A due to scaling to the true form of the World Forger (who, again, is 1-A+). Additionally, I propose scrapping all L1-A tiers and returning the in-multiverse keys for the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor back to 2-C, scrapping the H1-C tier for the Monitors’ first key and returning it to 2-C, while making their second key 1-A+ for the same reason (with this also including the Thought Robot and Mandrakk). This is simply because, as accepted on the profile for the Monitor Race, they are fragments of the one Monitor, who is 1-A+, and the Thought Robot and Mandrakk scale to them.
Agree: @Emirp sumitpo, @Elizio33, @Maverick_Zero_X, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Antvasima
Disagree:
Neutral:
To recap, all herald 2-Cs scale to 52 universes through Barbatos, even pre-crisis 2-Cs, because of the instance in Barbatos’ AP justification involving the weakening of the 52 universes in the Orrery. This scaling is due to Death Metal Superman knocking out Barbatos with one punch, and is backscaled to Superman in Post-Crisis due to this Superman being weakened from Anti-Life exposure. Pre-Crisis heralds then scale to Earth-2 Superman who scales to Post-Crisis Superman, so the entire current 2-C scaling chain is based on this.
The issue? Barbatos is rated as 1-A on his profile, and obviously we can’t have a rating scaled from a 1-A character if all these characters are subsequently not even tier 1. Now, this isn’t even the only problem, as there are other big issues in Barbatos’ rating and who he scales to:
- Barbatos’ AP justification uses the instance of him killing the World Forger in the Dark Multiverse, but the World Forger only has two keys, one L1-A, the other 1-A+. Barbatos scaling to him yet only being 1-A proper could only be coherent in terms of him scaling to the World Forger’s first key as secondary justification, but otherwise he doesn’t even have anything in his AP section justifying him having this tier to begin with.
- Additionally, Barbatos’ speed section still has a finite speed value listed despite his only key being 1-A, which isn’t coherent in terms of our modern standards. This is just an additional piece of evidence that this profile was sloppily revised without any further consideration towards the rest of the setting, whose scaling blows up when something like this is touched.
- The Monitor only has two keys like the World Forger, but his first key (which is L1-A) explicitly only has justifications which would otherwise warrant a 2-C tier, and indeed, he had this before this was suddenly revised to L1-A. This key specifically has him scaling to his brother the Anti-Monitor during COIE, who is 2-C anyways. And the speed values being finite (for him being L1-A) and unknown (for his 1-A+ key) are additionally inconsistent.
- The Anti-Monitor is rated as 2-C, up to 2-A with absorption, but he’s stated to be comparable to his brother, the Monitor, who again only has two keys, both of which being solidly tier 1. Additionally, his key which is L1-A only has within its justification a comparison to his former COIE self, who is rated as 2-C as stated again. Additionally, Anti-Monitor has more keys in his speed rating than he has on the top of his profile, and has Immeasurable speed in his first key while the Monitor has finite speed in his first key, even though they should scale to each other.
- The Monitors as a race are rated as H1-C in the Multiverse for being comparable to Kyle Rayner (who is 2-C) even though they are fragments of the one Monitor, who is L1-A in the multiverse. Outside of the multiverse they are only 1-A despite again being fragments of a 1-A+ being, which is obviously inconsistent with our tiering standards. This also applies to the Thought Robot and Mandrakk.
I propose we split Barbatos into two keys, one “in-multiverse” key which is 2-C (for the heralds to scale to), and the other for one “in the World Forge”, which would be 1-A+ instead of merely 1-A due to scaling to the true form of the World Forger (who, again, is 1-A+). Additionally, I propose scrapping all L1-A tiers and returning the in-multiverse keys for the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor back to 2-C, scrapping the H1-C tier for the Monitors’ first key and returning it to 2-C, while making their second key 1-A+ for the same reason (with this also including the Thought Robot and Mandrakk). This is simply because, as accepted on the profile for the Monitor Race, they are fragments of the one Monitor, who is 1-A+, and the Thought Robot and Mandrakk scale to them.
Agree: @Emirp sumitpo, @Elizio33, @Maverick_Zero_X, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Antvasima
Disagree:
Neutral:
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