[ReZero conceptual slop]-Character development is important afterall!!

[SatellaTheWoE]

Idk guys but I think authorities have type 3, possibly type 2 cm

• Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Witch Factors bend the unshakeable laws of the world[1] to the will of their possessor. Authority holders are the destroyers of concepts, permitted to bend the very rules of the world,[2] trampling upon them as they please. Authorities are powers that twist[3] the laws[3] of reality.[3] An Authority is the right to interfere with the nature of the world, to overturn concepts, to paint over those laws[4]— the official right to rewrite the world[5] as recognized by Od Lagna)

Reasoning for possibly type 2 cm

the "laws" Od Lagna forges and enforces are conflated with these "concepts" by the story itself. A very blatant example would be this line. The laws themselves are very obviously universal in nature: Objects fall down, hot things feel hot, etc.

Credits- @Zabazab (links and sources) and @Gigi_4_life (moral support)



Agree:- @Celestial_Pegasus [Type 2 CM]
Disagree:-

 

[Zabazab]

I wrote that first wee paragraph of justification so, yeah.

The main argument for type 2 CM is not what you described. You've just described characters' abilities developing alongside themselves, which is not evidence for CM at all.

The actual argument for type 2 CM is that the "laws" Od Lagna forges and enforces are conflated with these "concepts" by the story itself. A very blatant example would be this line. The laws themselves are very obviously universal in nature: Objects fall down, hot things feel hot, etc.

Roy's Eclipse Binaries is unrelated to abilities applied to Authorities in general. Eclipse Binaries manipulates Memories, which are abstract concepts. This does not say anything for any Authority aside from Eclipsing.

I also disagree with the last part about the Authority of Compression being a conceptual-type ability— this statement isn't related to Authorities in general, just Compression. Compression is the ability to condense achievable actions, like travelling or having conversations. This is a conceptual-type ability because the idea can be applied to many things when you're creative, hence Petra calling Clind a blockhead for only using it on way.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I wrote that first wee paragraph of justification so, yeah.

The main argument for type 2 CM is not what you described. You've just described characters' abilities developing alongside themselves, which is not evidence for CM at all.

The actual argument for type 2 CM is that the "laws" Od Lagna forges and enforces are conflated with these "concepts" by the story itself. A very blatant example would be this line. The laws themselves are very obviously universal in nature: Objects fall down, hot things feel hot, etc.

Roy's Eclipse Binaries is unrelated to abilities applied to Authorities in general. Eclipse Binaries manipulates Memories, which are abstract concepts. This does not say anything for any Authority aside from Eclipsing.

I also disagree with the last part about the Authority of Compression being a conceptual-type ability— this statement isn't related to Authorities in general, just Compression. Compression is the ability to condense achievable actions, like travelling or having conversations. This is a conceptual-type ability because the idea can be applied to many things when you're creative, hence Petra calling Clind a blockhead for only using it on way.

Thanks for the input, corrected the OP

 

[Lort15]

Agree

 

[Vietthai96]

• Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Witch Factors bend the unshakeable laws of the world[1] to the will of their possessor. Authority holders are the destroyers of concepts, permitted to bend the very rules of the world,[2] trampling upon them as they please. Authorities are powers that twist[3] the laws[3] of reality.[3] An Authority is the right to interfere with the nature of the world, to overturn concepts, to paint over those laws[4]— the official right to rewrite the world[5] as recognized by Od Lagna)

Type 3 CM yeah

the "laws" Od Lagna forges and enforces are conflated with these "concepts" by the story itself. A very blatant example would be this line. The laws themselves are very obviously universal in nature: Objects fall down, hot things feel hot, etc.

This is just law manip, law can actually dictate these things, no need to be concept

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

CM 3 and Law manipulation look good.

 

[Zabazab]

This is just law manip, law can actually dictate these things, no need to be concept

It's not that law manip can't cover these things, law manip can govern practically everything, it's the fact the concepts that Authorities are stated to overturn/destroy are these laws. The story conflates these. The laws are concepts and the concepts are laws.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Agree with Law and CM2 or limited CM2 for some

 

[SacredDao]

Agree on Law manipulation, neutral on the rest since it seems kinda flowery or figurative to me.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's not that law manip can't cover these things, law manip can govern practically everything, it's the fact the concepts that Authorities are stated to overturn/destroy are these laws. The story conflates these. The laws are concepts and the concepts are laws.

huh? i didn't say law hax can't cover these things??, i don't think what you said is really that important, because law can manipulate concepts, sure, but that doesn't make law = concept, i think you conflate this kind of thing, not the story thought

but well, i'm not someone who dismiss others' interpretation so if mods accept the CM2 stuffs, well, it is good then

 

[Trxyway]

Agree on CM type 3 & Law Manip

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I wish Satella was my IRL friend

 

[Zabazab]

huh? i didn't say law hax can't cover these things??, i don't think what you said is really that important, because law can manipulate concepts, sure, but that doesn't make law = concept, i think you conflate this kind of thing, not the story thought

Ok there's miscomunication happening between us.

I was agreeing with you that, in a vacuum, law manipulation can indeed cover things like "objects fall down" and "hot things feel hot". That is natural because law manipulation can be or do practically anything. I did not claim that you are saying that law manipulation cannot cover these things, I was agreeing with you that it can.

The story's conflation of the laws of the world which Authorities bend and bypass and break, and the concepts which they overturn and destroy, comes from these lines;

"The manifestation of a formidable right which allowed one to interfere with the nature of the world, to overturn concepts, to selfishly paint over those laws."

"Those who held Authorities— none other than those destroyers of concepts, permitted to bend the very rules of the world, trampling upon them as they pleased."

 

[Phoenks]

Why are these not Type 2 concepts btw? They are universal laws.

 

[Vietthai96]

Why are these not Type 2 concepts btw? They are universal laws.

uhmm, universal laws are.......laws??, not concept though, generally speaking of course

 

[Phoenks]

uhmm, universal laws are.......laws??, not concept though, generally speaking of course

Laws = concepts in the context of Re:Zero though. Read the scans.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Did she use witch factor to stop "the concept of time"? That could be useful.

 

[Zabazab]

Did she use witch factor to stop "the concept of time"? That could be useful.

Not confirmed if this was an Authority. I'd lean more towards this being her Yin Magic, as the Yin attribute is what covers spacetime manipulation. In any case I don't think it's very solid of a statement for any type of CM, especially in comparison to the statements regarding Authorities in general.

 

[Vietthai96]

Laws = concepts in the context of Re:Zero though. Read the scans.

i have read and well.........................i don't think it is, but it is just me of course

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

I agree with law manip and CM3

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Based on the evidence, laws and concepts seem to be the same thing so I think law manipulation and CM 2 is fine.

 

[MrTayman616]

Is this supposed to be "limited" or not? Since Authorities have specific uses after all, not every authority works the same way and for the same thing.

While one can affect the concept of "time", another one is completely unrelated to it etc. Does this make it limited or? (I'm not sure how CM works so :d)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

They manipulate the concepts/laws of the world to achieve specific things ie stop time, but even people who only manipulate specific concepts such as darkness or destruction, aren't listed as being limited as far as I have seen.

Authorities users manipulate the "universal" concepts to achieve specific things, limited would require a limitation on the ability like idk not having full control over their ability itself and or those concepts they manipulate.

So it wouldn't be limited looking at it, but I am no concept expert.

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Cm type 2 seems reasonable here

 

[Vietthai96]

Type 3 CM yeah


This is just law manip, law can actually dictate these things, no need to be concept

My stand is still the same, but i can settle with Possibly CM2

 

[MrTayman616]

My stand is still the same, but i can settle with Possibly CM2

Bro became a mod to strengthen his opinion

 

[Trxyway]

Bro became a mod to strengthen his opinion

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Bro became a mod to strengthen his opinion

 

[Vietthai96]

Bro became a mod to strengthen his opinion

i don't remember i agree with Possibly CM2 before i become a mod

 

[Vietthai96]

Alright sorry for the ping but if you guys wouldn't mind in helping the OP

@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @ActuallySpaceMan42

This isn't a big CRT so it is easy to conclude i guess

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Type 2 makes sense to me.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Since laws seem to be concepts Type 2 is fine then.

 

[Vietthai96]

Alright, while personally i don't think it is Type 2, but since Oblivion and Spaceman agree with it, i will switch my vote to agree with flatout Type 2, since i already fine with Possibly, switch to Solid isn't much of an issue

We have enough votes i guess, someone can applies the thread, ask for closure when you guys finish

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

changes have been applied

 

[Vietthai96]

changes have been applied

i will lock the thread