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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

Does the wiki have a minimum number to use when somethings uses "many"? Do we lowball like with several where we keep it at 3 or do we go higher? Asking because the JP version of the ALTTP manual says it's been "many centuries", as oppossed to the localisation saying it's been several, after the imprisoning war so wanna know how old we'd be treating Nando as being in ALTTP.
 
Does the wiki have a minimum number to use when somethings uses "many"? Do we lowball like with several where we keep it at 3 or do we go higher? Asking because the JP version of the ALTTP manual says it's been "many centuries", as oppossed to the localisation saying it's been several, after the imprisoning war so wanna know how old we'd be treating Nando as being in ALTTP.
The cultural norm for “many” is a bare minimum of 3.
 
Zelda fans when Link has to fight any other RPG protagonist known to mankind but they have to use current VSBW stats:

G063BoAW0AApzod
 
Hey look, RPG that caps at tier 7 max
 
Name one that isn't Grounded.
"Name one except these five hundred".
But ok uh, literally every fantasy RPG known to man bar like a few given "fantasy" is right there in the title? Some of the tales of dont get that high, hell a few niche FFs even like the GBA one, iirc that recent RPG I forget the name of but it's new that uses the FE weapon triangle doesn't get that far out (I wanna call it triangle strategy but no way that's what it's called), several older SNES Capcom RPGs like Fire.
Most RPGs get stomped by start of game Link bro, very few surpass 9-B or 9-A, and less than 1% even pray to hit tier 7.
Most media isn't powerscaling brainrot lad, they're not concerned with big numbers, as they should be. Even the things you often complain about, like FF didn't even hit tier 6 iirc till a few games in, and didn't hit tier 2 till like FF9.
 
Was gonna bring up some RPGS Link even at his weakest would solo but Sean's gonna find a way to say they don't count anyway, so instead I'm gonna bring up how the Imprisoned (And by extension Demise) should have perception manipulation due to forcing Link to perceive him being attacked by it when he first arrived on the sealed grounds (And like probs pain manipulation since it also gave him a headache or something)
 
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So we've got names for the Sages, deconfirms a somewhat common belief that the ancient Sages have the same names as the OOT ones. Interesting that so far the only one we've seen unmasked in the Gerudo sage, she's likely the most important one in a narrative sense due to how she would've served under Ganondorf before his transformation into the demon king.
 
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iirc that recent RPG I forget the name of but it's new that uses the FE weapon triangle doesn't get that far out (I wanna call it triangle strategy but no way that's what it's called)
I believe it is called Triangle Strategy. I remember seeing stuff about it in Nintendo Directs while watching for Smash Ultimate DLC reveals.
 
Was gonna bring up some RPGS Link even at his weakest would solo but Sean's gonna find a way to say they don't count anyway, so instead I'm gonna bring up how the Imprisoned (And by extension Demise) should have perception manipulation due to forcing Link to perceive him being attacked by it when he first arrived on the sealed grounds (And like probs pain manipulation since it also gave him a headache or something)
Pretty sure Link just had a vision of his awakening
 
Something super minor but was wondering if we should change Ganon's template to something like this:

9fddc021b29c.png


Just seems like a nice looking way to seperate the mainline games from the other ones (Also I wanna remove Demise, like yeah the dude is the reason Ganondorf exists but he ain't actually Ganondorf).
 
Something super minor but was wondering if we should change Ganon's template to something like this:

9fddc021b29c.png


Just seems like a nice looking way to seperate the mainline games from the other ones (Also I wanna remove Demise, like yeah the dude is the reason Ganondorf exists but he ain't actually Ganondorf).
this seems good
 
Wouldn't imagine I'd need to make a CRT for changing that template, I might be able to change it later once my shift ends (Had to switch to the late shift to cover someone, might be too tired to change it by the time I'm done) and if staff don't like it they can, I dunno, beat me in the dungeons for my insolence.
 
I like the way the main TOTK bosses look in this game, Colgera being a weird flesh/ice monster and Queen Gibdo being even more moth-like is pretty cool. I'm assuming they look different here due to Ganondorf being at full power the entire time while in TOTK he recreates them while in his weaker mummified state.

Or maybe they're just going the AOC Blight Ganon route and making them look different because they thought it was cool lol. My biggest hope for this game is that the lil' Korok fella gets valid scaling to the tier 5 stuff.
 
I was wondering why the traveler from majora Manga was downgraded from low 2-C to Large star? Also sucks how most best Zelda feats are from non Canon sources.
I need some feats, someone make some revaluation thread and upscale goddesses, triforce, Demise, Ganondorf.. please.  
 
I was wondering why the traveler from majora Manga was downgraded from low 2-C to Large star?
Im surprised he even has any rating at all, he doesn't even do anything.
Also sucks how most best Zelda feats are from non Canon sources.
I need some feats, someone make some revaluation thread and upscale goddesses, triforce, Demise, Ganondorf.. please.  
Did we upgrade them to low 2-C/2-C yet for EoW? Well, Ganon/Triforce anyway.
 
Im surprised he even has any rating at all, he doesn't even do anything.

Did we upgrade them to low 2-C/2-C yet for EoW? Well, Ganon/Triforce anyway.
Doesn't he create time?

Also, I wanna discuss some topics.
1. Do you guys think that SS Link is Hylian chosen hero or he is the reincarnation of him, like the ambiguously canon manga suggest?
2. All Zeldas era descendants of SS Zelda, where do you think that most Link's lineage come from?
3. Do you think hylia returned to a goddess state after SS Zelda died?
4. Any Manga relevant feats even though they are not canon?
5. How many years do u guys believe has passed between botw and totk
6. Is there really no way for us to find in Japanese version that possible statement Demise made when you use Fi to comment the "arena"? Was it checked properly? Because it appears in different languages so idk.
7. Isn't there really a scaling between spirits, minor gods, hylia etc? Maybe with light force as a concept that could help us scale between different incantations of Zelda and Link?
8. I haven't played EoW, I think this was explained a lot as well, but I was wondering why some folks think Null is tier 2 or above, I remember it being debunked here I think?
 
Doesn't he create time?
Majora does, he just kind of vibes.
Also, I wanna discuss some topics.
1. Do you guys think that SS Link is Hylian chosen hero or he is the reincarnation of him, like the ambiguously canon manga suggest?
The ambiguously canon manga is supposed to detail an actual event, it was just written early in development so theres fuckys like the master sword. But like the whole "hero" and hylia thing is def something that happened in canon, even if it's a tad different so yeah, like secondary canon.
2. All Zeldas era descendants of SS Zelda, where do you think that most Link's lineage come from?
They straight up say. Part of the "Royal Knights" bloodline for a good handful. Some a lil iffy, like minish and WW is just his own thing kinda, but most fall under that, especially because we know some Links blood related to older Links so they fall under it by default.

Other Links, just reincarnate because lol magic. Like really it doesnt matter where they came from, it's the same magic.
3. Do you think hylia returned to a goddess state after SS Zelda died?
Pretty explicitly yeah.
4. Any Manga relevant feats even though they are not canon?
Hero's Shade has a fuckton of random hax for some reason like BFR, dimensional travel, illusions, teleportation, space-time manipulation, acausality, etc.
5. How many years do u guys believe has passed between botw and totk
At least 5 based on a few random lines, I have them saved somewhere but id need to dig real deep.
6. Is there really no way for us to find in Japanese version that possible statement Demise made when you use Fi to comment the "arena"? Was it checked properly? Because it appears in different languages so idk.
Yes, in japanese she says he controls that subspace, never claims he made it.
7. Isn't there really a scaling between spirits, minor gods, hylia etc? Maybe with light force as a concept that could help us scale between different incantations of Zelda and Link?
There's a scaling chain in the sense of god rankings, but that doesnt involve power. Some Zelda gods and deities piss weak, some are asinine while ranking low, etc.
8. I haven't played EoW, I think this was explained a lot as well, but I was wondering why some folks think Null is tier 2 or above, I remember it being debunked here I think?
It never was and because he explains in excessive detail he's going to use the tri force to straight up destroy reality including all of time and space.
Even checked the jap yap just to be safe, it's even more concrete and he uses words like ******* erase space and time.

That includes at minimum light and dark world so 2-C, tbh it def includes a few others tho, not all are uni in scope tho so it's iffy but it's 100% light world+sacred realm.
 
Majora does, he just kind of vibes.

The ambiguously canon manga is supposed to detail an actual event, it was just written early in development so theres fuckys like the master sword. But like the whole "hero" and hylia thing is def something that happened in canon, even if it's a tad different so yeah, like secondary canon.

They straight up say. Part of the "Royal Knights" bloodline for a good handful. Some a lil iffy, like minish and WW is just his own thing kinda, but most fall under that, especially because we know some Links blood related to older Links so they fall under it by default.

Other Links, just reincarnate because lol magic. Like really it doesnt matter where they came from, it's the same magic.

Pretty explicitly yeah.

Hero's Shade has a fuckton of random hax for some reason like BFR, dimensional travel, illusions, teleportation, space-time manipulation, acausality, etc.

At least 5 based on a few random lines, I have them saved somewhere but id need to dig real deep.

Yes, in japanese she says he controls that subspace, never claims he made it.

There's a scaling chain in the sense of god rankings, but that doesnt involve power. Some Zelda gods and deities piss weak, some are asinine while ranking low, etc.

It never was and because he explains in excessive detail he's going to use the tri force to straight up destroy reality including all of time and space.
Even checked the jap yap just to be safe, it's even more concrete and he uses words like ******* erase space and time.

That includes at minimum light and dark world so 2-C, tbh it def includes a few others tho, not all are uni in scope tho so it's iffy but it's 100% light world+sacred realm.
A part from Null, do you currently agree with current zelda ratings or you got different takes for majora, Ganondorf classic incarnation, Demise etc
 
A part from Null, do you currently agree with current zelda ratings or you got different takes for majora, Ganondorf classic incarnation, Demise etc
I have different takes for a lot, but moreso in the sense of precision. We're lacking a shit ton of calced feats.

Now when I say disagree I dont mean oh shit theyre tier 2 or 8, or actual tangible huge gaps, I mean in the sense of "we have this mf at 3 teratons, but this feat would put him at 9 actually" or "this dude is 8 kilotons but it's kind of wanked, actual calc is like 2 kilotons".

The biggest slop changes I can think of is 6-C base Link in MM is flatout wrong, both calc wise and because the mfs in question didnt actually do the feats so theres nothing to scale to (he's moreso 8-A to 7-C off a few pocket calcs so it's hefty drop but eh), inversely FD and Majora probably 4-B instead of 4-C. And uh idk, thats the big ones, the rest is just finer precision through extra calcs or yap, nothing game changing. Could be forgetting some stuff tho, like im not mentioning fodder bosses because I know for a fact theyre grossly outdated.

Totk era atm i have no issues with tho beyond needing extra calcs but they all end up as supporting what we got so it chill.
 
I have different takes for a lot, but moreso in the sense of precision. We're lacking a shit ton of calced feats.

Now when I say disagree I dont mean oh shit theyre tier 2 or 8, or actual tangible huge gaps, I mean in the sense of "we have this mf at 3 teratons, but this feat would put him at 9 actually" or "this dude is 8 kilotons but it's kind of wanked, actual calc is like 2 kilotons".

The biggest slop changes I can think of is 6-C base Link in MM is flatout wrong, both calc wise and because the mfs in question didnt actually do the feats so theres nothing to scale to (he's moreso 8-A to 7-C off a few pocket calcs so it's hefty drop but eh), inversely FD and Majora probably 4-B instead of 4-C. And uh idk, thats the big ones, the rest is just finer precision through extra calcs or yap, nothing game changing. Could be forgetting some stuff tho, like im not mentioning fodder bosses because I know for a fact theyre grossly outdated.

Totk era atm i have no issues with tho beyond needing extra calcs but they all end up as supporting what we got so it chill.
Do you think that triforce of power scaling from 4 giants is fair? Idk, to me sounds a bit weird lore wise that Demise is several tiers below them. But it might be me? The thing is that the cross-scaling with Ganondorf seems weak, or better not very explained, what do you think how would u justify Ganondorf scaling to them? (also I think we should explain how the moon is an actual moon suggested by lore, it influences ocean etc)
I'd also like to Calc Malladus statement about destroying the world as the world itself, with a reasonable time frame, instead of just new Hyrule.
And yeah more calcs would be nice.
 
Do you think that triforce of power scaling from 4 giants is fair? Idk, to me sounds a bit weird lore wise that Demise is several tiers below them.
It's very generous tbh. There's nothing actually connecting the two beyond hype and vibes, and while hype and vibes works for some shit, here it wouldnt given theyre from alt realities.

The saving grace is Light Arrows basically create a roundabout scaling chain via two methods of scaling, which backscales to OOT ToP Ganon both ways. So it's less the ToP enabling scaling and more light arrows, and it just happens to scale to ToP lv characters.

Demise isnt actually all to strong, he gets mauled by a lower end Master Sword, doesnt have artifact yap like ToP, etc. It's like how Null on paper sounds insane, and then you realize he's like OOT temple boss lv at best and sigh.
But it might be me? The thing is that the cross-scaling with Ganondorf seems weak, or better not very explained, what do you think how would u justify Ganondorf scaling to them?
Light Arrows among other things. The scaling is there but you right it's explained badly with like no citations, something to fix ig.
(also I think we should explain how the moon is an actual moon suggested by lore, it influences ocean etc)
Uhm.
It isnt.

It's weird chat, it's both an actual moon but isn't? The lore runs kind of deep.
If you mean size, yeah it's not to scale but it being full moon size also might not be concrete, it's hard to gauge, but it also doesnt mean much.

It could be the size of a planet or a pebble, in the end what matters is what it actually does, and it has over 50 statements saying it glasses the entire planet. And because if that, we can use that info for AP, LS, and anything in between without needing to give a shit about its actual mass at all.
I'd also like to Calc Malladus statement about destroying the world as the world itself, with a reasonable time frame, instead of just new Hyrule.
And yeah more calcs would be nice.
That's impossible, like that feat is just straight up not quantifiable, it's not only time frame but also attacks, it just isnt worth calcing because it's just guesswork. Not even needed either we HAVE better feats we can calc.
 
has over 50 statements saying it glasses the entire planet
Do we have a solid size for the planet tho? Because it could be argued that it's less big than earth sized and then it would decrease the result and the scaling, wouldn't it?

I am curious about what others feats are more worthy to be calculated.
I find the light arrows scaling a bit generous as you say, because I am scared this is an other "gameplay Link can beat Majora without the mask", also the mask implies Link gets the strength of a giant, but I don't see the evidence that suggests he gets the strength of one of the 4 giants, it could be any other type of giant or am I wrong? Maybe the implication is that masks are based on races like Goron etc so it's some sort of ommitrix where you get the peak of that race strength? A bit of assumptions I guess?? Plus, idk, Hylia splitting the earth with the sword in the secondary canon manga which result would it get you think? Not worthy? For now I can only think about that and brench of Demise as worthy to be calculated, maybe the dragon in botw splitting the mountain, idk please do tell if u can
 
Do we have a solid size for the planet tho? Because it could be argued that it's less big than earth sized and then it would decrease the result and the scaling, wouldn't it?
Bro what? It's a parallel world to Hyrule, ergo, comparable to that.

And then you factor in how it has identical gravity as Hyrule, yet is made of the same substance, with functional seasons, and more, and it literally cant be any different in size, both smaller, OR bigger.

If it was larger or smaller, that'd effect its mass, which would effect all of the above, yet we know the above is the same as Hyrule, and we know Termina isnt made of some ultra dense substance to bump up its density to make it have the same conditions despite being smaller, so it just ends up being the same size, which, is what you'd expect, that's always the default assumption. Thinking on it, having 24h day-night cycles is also proof it's the same same abd similar orbits.
I am curious about what others feats are more worthy to be calculated.
I find the light arrows scaling a bit generous as you say, because I am scared this is an other "gameplay Link can beat Majora without the mask",
Huge difference there. There's statements detailing Link using Light Arrows on certain things, as in, they were used canonically. And we also know they were used against Ganon in canon (you have to in order to stun him), thus they scale. Ergo both used canonically, both tank canonically yet hurt, ergo same ballpark dura, if that makes sense.

Link CANT defeat Majora without the mask, they straight up say he has no hope in winning without it (multiple times even), and it's hard confirmed he used FD to defeat Majora so any chance he didnt is shot down.
The combination of which vastly overwhelms gameplay defeating it (even worse, it's stated Link cant even harm Skull Kid and everything you use against him is actually laughed off too, Link just straight up doesnt scale), even worse x 2, Link DIES from an attack canonically that Majora is unfazed by (actual premise of the game tbh), and way more, it just isnt comparable.

It's like how you can beat the shit out of Ganon with a mop when everything in lore says only the MS can box with him.
also the mask implies Link gets the strength of a giant, but I don't see the evidence that suggests he gets the strength of one of the 4 giants, it could be any other type of giant or am I wrong?
If you can pinpoint to another giant that exists in MM, mayhaps, but when they're the only giants in the game, use even the same terminology in the raws, it makes absolutely no sense to assume anything but. No game or writer would establish all those connections and precedence, and then have it mean this secret other giant thats never talked about anywhere.
Maybe the implication is that masks are based on races like Goron etc so it's some sort of ommitrix where you get the peak of that race strength?
Masks vary, both mechanically and functionally. The Goron Mask isn't based on the race, it contains the soul of Darmani, you literally become him. It's a specific Goron.
But not all masks work like that, the obvious example is FD which is a ****** up amalgamation.
The Giant Mask is doing its own thing in that same vain.
A bit of assumptions I guess?? Plus, idk, Hylia splitting the earth with the sword in the secondary canon manga which result would it get you think?
Idk probably like tier 7. Demise turning mountains to "obsidian scorch marks" was something I was interested in calcing tho.
Not worthy? For now I can only think about that and brench of Demise as worthy to be calculated, maybe the dragon in botw splitting the mountain, idk please do tell if u can
There's just a lot, I have a list I posted in chat tho awhile back of things to calc ill copy paste it here in a bit.

The dragon mountain split I have clips to calc tho ive just been lazy, it's prob 7-C but I kinda wanna see if it is shown in HW because we know that mountain is intact still in the past (it's shown in some of the memories), so ya know.
 
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