- 9,944
- 9,228
No, the 5-B nova levels are his absolute maximum and while he can raise his fire to different degrees, there's no way to tell an average level.
Even then, I don't believe they would count as 5-B striking strength.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
The Mah-vel Unfawking Thread Step Three: I Came Back with Milk
- Thread starter The_Impress
- Start date
-
- Tags
- marvel comics
- Status
Even then, I don't believe they would count as 5-B striking strength.
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,972
- 5,113
Excellence616/Scans
vsbattles.fandom.com
I gathered some feats from Tier 5 to Tier 3-B. It may be of help.
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #165
yes
But also, 3-C and Low 1-C are gonna be yeeted and those tiers are just gonna have one high end in the future.
That's a future revision tho
- 1,594
- 1,493
Yeah, I hate the 3-C/Low 1-C split. Low 1-C especially is problematic as its based on scaling to god feats, which I don't think any Heralds other than a couple exceptions should scale to.
As for the split we are discussing here, would that only apply to those who have 5-B peak feats? Like would, for example, Namor be "5-B at peak" or not, since he doesnt have 5-B feats of his own.
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #167
Namor is one of the worst files on this tier for Marvel, so his rating is more of a formality without anyone doing a rework.
As for rescale, that'll probably be its own thread? There is a big proposal I have for it.
- 1,594
- 1,493
What problems do you have with Namor's profile? At the very least he needs a "Varies", because he pretty explicitly has that mechanic with hydration. Like at one point in Invaders, he mentions that depending on how hydrated he is, he's either the strongest or the weakest Invader. That would mean he varies from like 9-C to 5-B (or whatever we settle on here).
Last edited:
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #169
Variability mechanic entirely missing, also his high ends are probably way higher
- 1,594
- 1,493
Could we get a bit of an update on the progress here? What feats are accepted, still under consideration, and rejected? I know that we all agreed to drop the Thing "moon" feat, and that you wanted to look at the scaling of Proxima Midnight and Blastaar before using their feats, but what else?
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #171
Blastaar is getting a file by Tllm, Saman's doing Super Skrull, still haven't found someone to do Proxima
Worst case scenario I do her but that would take a long while, swamped with work
Worst case scenario I do her but that would take a long while, swamped with work
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,972
- 5,113
Excellence616/Scans
I gathered some feats from Tier 5 to Tier 3-B. It may be of help.
- Gladiator (Marvel Comics)
- Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics)
- Leaves behind a burst of expanding energy while escaping with Gabriel This turns into a black hole
- Shields against the pull of a black hole
- Survives entering a black hole, specifically withstanding the pressure of it
- Fights inside a black hole
- Begins to rekindle a dying star
- Absorbs a Stars energy, becoming a intergalactic ballistic missile and annihilating a moon
- Sets two planets in harmonious orbit
- Obliterates a planet that formed with Surfer as the center
- Briefly powers the Impericon stated to be larger than any five planets put together
- Being furious, he was able to create a black hole encompassing a large part of the Andromeda galaxy by using his cosmic energy discharges
- Quasar
- Red Hulk
- Thor (Marvel Comics)
- Saves Red Hulk from being pulled into a Black Hole
- Pulls the Midgard Serpent off of Earth - The Midgard Serpent is strong enough to destroy the Earth
- Overpowers the gravimetric attraction of a neutron star
- Absorbs and redirects enough energy to ignite a star
- Withstands the weight of 20 planets
- Overpowers a planet-destroying energy beam
- Thor creates a portal to drop oceans on Tyconria to negate the damage Sentry inflicted upon it. It says that Thor can destroy the planet if he opens to a sun or star.
- Beta Ray Bill
- Bill teleports a small black hole to a place where there is no matter for it absorb within a million light-years.
- Bill resists the pull of two black holes.
- Withstands being rushed clean through a planet by Stardust and survives the explosion of the planet. Same scan shows as his opponent proceeds to open up a black hole
- Tanks having a planet be destroyed under him.
- Beta Ray Bill destroys a Planet.
- Jane Foster (Marvel Comics)
- Terrax
- Ego the Living Planet
- Hulk (Marvel Comics)
- Shared Feats
- Clash with Morg destroys a planet
- Silver Surfer with Quasar and Ronan, fuses two suns. Same scan show that they will push some planets around and rearrange a solar system in which they did off panel
- Along with Adam Warlock, survives the clash of Thanos and the Abstracts, which ravages entire solar systems
- Along with Sunspot, Hercules stops the world machine, which was linked to the planet's rotation. Note that Sunspot was at his peak while performing this feat. At his peak his strength was compared to Base Hulk. Although, this might possibly be an exaggeration.
- Thor and Hercules arm wrestling generated enough force to knock the earth out of it's orbit
- Thanos and Drax battle destroyed a planet
- Stormbreaker and Mjolnir's power combined is enough to destroy a massive portal/gate that dwarfs the surrounding stars and planets.
- Survives being pummeled hard enough that the planet under him explodes by Tho
Statements
- Hercules stated that he has the power to shake the universe
- Zeus said to shatter mountains in a fight with Thor, and could have potentially broken the sky and heavens as well
- Thor and Hercules' punches have power between them to demolish worlds
- Merged Hulk said he can juggle the five outer planet without working up a sweat
- Hyperion states that he can destroy earth
- Thor said he has shattered moons
- As stated by Thor, Ulik has the power to level a planet
- Even while holding back, both Genis and Sentry had the power to could destroys worlds
- Carol states that she has the power of a star
New Feat
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #173
... didn't I already say that none of these characters scale to 5-Bs in their base state?
Like thanks for the compilation, but I think every character here is in the 3-C/Low 1-C range.
Would be helpful in the later revision ig
Like thanks for the compilation, but I think every character here is in the 3-C/Low 1-C range.
Would be helpful in the later revision ig
- 3,267
- 1,302
Has that been established yet? All we've concretely thrown out so far is the Thing's moon thing, we're still waiting for the Proxima scaling and where Super Skrull normally is, and other vague things.
- 3,267
- 1,302
Quasar's shields have a casual High 6-A durability showing from surviving a solar flare.
- 3,267
- 1,302
Did anyone find context behind Grey Hulk fighting Super Skrulls when he made the 4-C statement?
- 9,944
- 9,228
I'm close to that issue and I should reach it in a few days; unfortunately in this period I'm often off-city for work and I can't get to read comics.
- 9,667
- 6,605
Nice job.
- 9,944
- 9,228
Ok so, I believe Super-Skrull's statement to be unusable for the following reasons:
- The precise way with which he "detonated stars and collapsed worlds" is unknown, leaving huge room for interpretation.
- Lacks any personal feat beyond tier 7 at the very most (blowing up the peak of a small mountain with a fireball)
- Lacks scaling to cosmic characters, being explicitly inferior to Thor and Silver Surfer.
- In the very same issue, he is overpowered and defeated by Gray Hulk.
- His fire powers may have had a role in the feats he references, considering they had previously been stated once to be a planetary threat and are consistently stated to be on the level of a nova.
Last edited:
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #183
Proxima's is bullshit because she can control the density of her spear, so said spear's variable, also Hulk tanks a hit from Thanos in the same comic - Infinity #6
Blastaar's is bullshit because the machine he's strapped to for the feat, amps him - Ask Tilm for da issue
Blastaar's is bullshit because the machine he's strapped to for the feat, amps him - Ask Tilm for da issue
- 1,594
- 1,493
Look's like Proxima, or at least her spear, is probably Herald level then
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #185
Up to, yeah
- 3,267
- 1,302
I can't read the scan, the resolution is very low.
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #187
- 3,267
- 1,302
Does he have means to detonate and collapse that aren't via raw power attacks?
I suppose there's the unquantified timeframe regardless of that.
- 20,915
- 15,069
I mean there's the accepted 6-B calc for Doctor Doom's enduring that moon explosion
- 9,944
- 9,228
I won't ever stress enough how, at least according to me, we shouldn't just drop the bar to the next highest feat at hand, but look, if not for actual consistency (otherwise everyone'd be 9-B), for "narratively reasonable" levels.
I know it's more likely to find feats compilations other than limits, but what have been the greatest threats for our heroes? Menaces they couldn't stop or would have killed them?
Iirc the giant explosion which nearly killed Luke Cage, things like that.
For some characters, I may argue their durability may exceed their strength, although I honestly lack hard evidences.
Battles should also be analyzed with more scrutiny, just like the famous "hollbacc" characters such as Spider-Man and Thor.
I may argue some other heavy hitters among the heroes might tend to hold back and instead of having a million villains scaling 1:1 to them simply because they landed a punch and send them back, we should weed out possible cases of characters just "fighting" or letting themselves be hit or hurt even so slightly.
I know it's more likely to find feats compilations other than limits, but what have been the greatest threats for our heroes? Menaces they couldn't stop or would have killed them?
Iirc the giant explosion which nearly killed Luke Cage, things like that.
For some characters, I may argue their durability may exceed their strength, although I honestly lack hard evidences.
Battles should also be analyzed with more scrutiny, just like the famous "hollbacc" characters such as Spider-Man and Thor.
I may argue some other heavy hitters among the heroes might tend to hold back and instead of having a million villains scaling 1:1 to them simply because they landed a punch and send them back, we should weed out possible cases of characters just "fighting" or letting themselves be hit or hurt even so slightly.
Last edited:
- 12,886
- 8,727
- Thread starter
- #192
Stressin so much he did it twice
- 9,944
- 9,228
The only way I could possibly think for him to achieve those feats are through his flame powers.
They have already been stated once to reach planet level at maximum power via nova-like intensity and taking it for granted (there are numerous statements comparing him to a nova) I could imagine a scenario where he triggers a scientifically-inaccurate chain-reaction (a nova isn't star level) into a star and causes it to detonated, but that would also be an unprecedented range feat (at that point he capped at hundreds of kms via stretching and hundreds of meters via fire projection)
- 3,267
- 1,302
Perhaps it would still be fruitful to add a common feat calc for the luminosity energy output of a nova?
So, which is more likely: the chain reaction or straight-up detonation? If he doesn't have the range to do the chain reaction, what's the alternative?
- 9,944
- 9,228
We do have a page for novas and they are 5-A.
However, we don't reeeeaaally know how Super-Skrull or the Human Torch would detonate their nova-like power aside from heat alone or how the Earth would be destroyed, as Thor says.
Instead of conjecturing too much, I would stick with a generic planet level rating.
There's no possible answer, the statement is vague and quite braggish; for all intents and purposes the author may have wanted to have Super-Skrull detonate stars with a flicker, but in absence of clear answers from the comic itself, we are inevitably forced to look at previous appearances.
Also, let's not forget how Gray Hulk utterly humiliates SuperSkrull in this issue, first tanking his flames and boasting immunity to fire (although this specific comic lacks references to novas) and then beating the shit out of him.
- 3,267
- 1,302
Damn, are we sure Thing scales to Grey Hulk?
- 3,267
- 1,302
But I thought someone established earlier that Super Skrull, while holding back, is on par with or superior to Thing?Well, he beat up the Grey Hulk not many issues before the Super-Skrull battle.
- 178,166
- 91,276
The old Marvel Universe handbooks suddenly established that the Super-Skrull only was "Class 15" in strength at best to compare with The Thing at "Class 85", which likely helped to cause these types of portrayals for some years.
- 9,944
- 9,228
I believe Gray Hulk is affected by the same inconsistencies of Green Hulk, but iirc he has variable power level anyway, just not on the same scale/potency/speed/etc..
Hulk and Thing's skirmishes are also a tad bit weird, I remember watching a very interesting video recounting their history and a lot of them are dependant on context and interpretation.
Up to the comic we've talked so far, Super-Skrull was consistently superior to the Thing, both by statements and showings; moreover, in his very first comic, Super Skrull lifts over 100 tons, with the Skrull scientists literally calling out the numbers.
If you're curious, here's my Super-Skrull WIP; it doesn't yet cover all the comics I've read because I wanted to good headstart before starting to write the file.
Hulk and Thing's skirmishes are also a tad bit weird, I remember watching a very interesting video recounting their history and a lot of them are dependant on context and interpretation.
This is straight up false and another reason why guidebooks are full of bullshit.The old Marvel Universe handbooks suddenly established that the Super-Skrull only was "Class 15" in strength at best to compare with The Thing at "Class 85", which likely helped to cause these types of portrayals for some years.
Up to the comic we've talked so far, Super-Skrull was consistently superior to the Thing, both by statements and showings; moreover, in his very first comic, Super Skrull lifts over 100 tons, with the Skrull scientists literally calling out the numbers.
If you're curious, here's my Super-Skrull WIP; it doesn't yet cover all the comics I've read because I wanted to good headstart before starting to write the file.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
