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The Mah-vel Unfawking Thread Step Three: I Came Back with Milk

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Is the Human Torch's standard fire 5-B? Because there are characters who have tanked or endured it, like Doctor Doom
No, the 5-B nova levels are his absolute maximum and while he can raise his fire to different degrees, there's no way to tell an average level.

Even then, I don't believe they would count as 5-B striking strength.
 
There are a lot of 5-B "at peak" feats. Where would that put us then, if the normal 5-B feats are not approved? Would these characters be like "__, 5-B at peak," kinda like we have with the 3-C/Low 1-Cs right now?
 
There are a lot of 5-B "at peak" feats. Where would that put us then, if the normal 5-B feats are not approved? Would these characters be like "__, 5-B at peak," kinda like we have with the 3-C/Low 1-Cs right now?
yes

But also, 3-C and Low 1-C are gonna be yeeted and those tiers are just gonna have one high end in the future.

That's a future revision tho
 
yes

But also, 3-C and Low 1-C are gonna be yeeted and those tiers are just gonna have one high end in the future.

That's a future revision tho
Yeah, I hate the 3-C/Low 1-C split. Low 1-C especially is problematic as its based on scaling to god feats, which I don't think any Heralds other than a couple exceptions should scale to.

As for the split we are discussing here, would that only apply to those who have 5-B peak feats? Like would, for example, Namor be "5-B at peak" or not, since he doesnt have 5-B feats of his own.
 
As for the split we are discussing here, would that only apply to those who have 5-B peak feats? Like would, for example, Namor be "5-B at peak" or not, since he doesnt have 5-B feats of his own.
Namor is one of the worst files on this tier for Marvel, so his rating is more of a formality without anyone doing a rework.

As for rescale, that'll probably be its own thread? There is a big proposal I have for it.
 
Namor is one of the worst files on this tier for Marvel, so his rating is more of a formality without anyone doing a rework.

As for rescale, that'll probably be its own thread? There is a big proposal I have for it.
What problems do you have with Namor's profile? At the very least he needs a "Varies", because he pretty explicitly has that mechanic with hydration. Like at one point in Invaders, he mentions that depending on how hydrated he is, he's either the strongest or the weakest Invader. That would mean he varies from like 9-C to 5-B (or whatever we settle on here).
 
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What problems do you have with Namor's profile? At the very least he needs a "Varies", because he pretty explicitly has that mechanic with hydration. Like at one point in Invaders, he mentions that depending on how hydrated he is, he's either the strongest or the weakest Invader. That would mean he varies from like 9-C to 5-B (or whatever we settle on here).
Variability mechanic entirely missing, also his high ends are probably way higher
 
Could we get a bit of an update on the progress here? What feats are accepted, still under consideration, and rejected? I know that we all agreed to drop the Thing "moon" feat, and that you wanted to look at the scaling of Proxima Midnight and Blastaar before using their feats, but what else?
 

I gathered some feats from Tier 5 to Tier 3-B. It may be of help.






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... didn't I already say that none of these characters scale to 5-Bs in their base state?

Like thanks for the compilation, but I think every character here is in the 3-C/Low 1-C range.

Would be helpful in the later revision ig
 
... didn't I already say that none of these characters scale to 5-Bs in their base state?
Has that been established yet? All we've concretely thrown out so far is the Thing's moon thing, we're still waiting for the Proxima scaling and where Super Skrull normally is, and other vague things.
 
At this point we might as well look for tier 6 calcs, see if we can find something ranging from High 6-B to High 6-A.

Otherwise we might just have to use the Doctor Doom moon explosion calc
 
Well depending on the findings for Proxima Midnight, Blastaar, and Super Skrull we could still be looking at 5-B. Personally I think it's extremely consistent
 





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Nice job. (y)
 
Ok so, I believe Super-Skrull's statement to be unusable for the following reasons:

  • The precise way with which he "detonated stars and collapsed worlds" is unknown, leaving huge room for interpretation.
  • Lacks any personal feat beyond tier 7 at the very most (blowing up the peak of a small mountain with a fireball)
  • Lacks scaling to cosmic characters, being explicitly inferior to Thor and Silver Surfer.
  • In the very same issue, he is overpowered and defeated by Gray Hulk.
  • His fire powers may have had a role in the feats he references, considering they had previously been stated once to be a planetary threat and are consistently stated to be on the level of a nova.
 
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I won't ever stress enough how, at least according to me, we shouldn't just drop the bar to the next highest feat at hand, but look, if not for actual consistency (otherwise everyone'd be 9-B), for "narratively reasonable" levels.
I know it's more likely to find feats compilations other than limits, but what have been the greatest threats for our heroes? Menaces they couldn't stop or would have killed them?

Iirc the giant explosion which nearly killed Luke Cage, things like that.

For some characters, I may argue their durability may exceed their strength, although I honestly lack hard evidences.

Battles should also be analyzed with more scrutiny, just like the famous "hollbacc" characters such as Spider-Man and Thor.
I may argue some other heavy hitters among the heroes might tend to hold back and instead of having a million villains scaling 1:1 to them simply because they landed a punch and send them back, we should weed out possible cases of characters just "fighting" or letting themselves be hit or hurt even so slightly.
 
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Does he have means to detonate and collapse that aren't via raw power attacks?

I suppose there's the unquantified timeframe regardless of that.
The only way I could possibly think for him to achieve those feats are through his flame powers.
They have already been stated once to reach planet level at maximum power via nova-like intensity and taking it for granted (there are numerous statements comparing him to a nova) I could imagine a scenario where he triggers a scientifically-inaccurate chain-reaction (a nova isn't star level) into a star and causes it to detonated, but that would also be an unprecedented range feat (at that point he capped at hundreds of kms via stretching and hundreds of meters via fire projection)
 
The only way I could possibly think for him to achieve those feats are through his flame powers.
They have already been stated once to reach planet level at maximum power via nova-like intensity and taking it for granted (there are numerous statements comparing him to a nova) I could imagine a scenario where he triggers a scientifically-inaccurate chain-reaction (a nova isn't star level) into a star and causes it to detonated, but that would also be an unprecedented range feat (at that point he capped at hundreds of kms via stretching and hundreds of meters via fire projection)
Perhaps it would still be fruitful to add a common feat calc for the luminosity energy output of a nova?

So, which is more likely: the chain reaction or straight-up detonation? If he doesn't have the range to do the chain reaction, what's the alternative?
 
Perhaps it would still be fruitful to add a common feat calc for the luminosity energy output of a nova?
We do have a page for novas and they are 5-A.
However, we don't reeeeaaally know how Super-Skrull or the Human Torch would detonate their nova-like power aside from heat alone or how the Earth would be destroyed, as Thor says.
Instead of conjecturing too much, I would stick with a generic planet level rating.

So, which is more likely: the chain reaction or straight-up detonation? If he doesn't have the range to do the chain reaction, what's the alternative?
There's no possible answer, the statement is vague and quite braggish; for all intents and purposes the author may have wanted to have Super-Skrull detonate stars with a flicker, but in absence of clear answers from the comic itself, we are inevitably forced to look at previous appearances.
Also, let's not forget how Gray Hulk utterly humiliates SuperSkrull in this issue, first tanking his flames and boasting immunity to fire (although this specific comic lacks references to novas) and then beating the shit out of him.
 
Also, let's not forget how Gray Hulk utterly humiliates SuperSkrull in this issue, first tanking his flames and boasting immunity to fire (although this specific comic lacks references to novas) and then beating the shit out of him.
Damn, are we sure Thing scales to Grey Hulk?
 
Well, he beat up the Grey Hulk not many issues before the Super-Skrull battle. 🙏
 
Well, he beat up the Grey Hulk not many issues before the Super-Skrull battle. 🙏
But I thought someone established earlier that Super Skrull, while holding back, is on par with or superior to Thing?

I think I’m in over my head here.
 
The old Marvel Universe handbooks suddenly established that the Super-Skrull only was "Class 15" in strength at best to compare with The Thing at "Class 85", which likely helped to cause these types of portrayals for some years. 🙏
 
I believe Gray Hulk is affected by the same inconsistencies of Green Hulk, but iirc he has variable power level anyway, just not on the same scale/potency/speed/etc..
Hulk and Thing's skirmishes are also a tad bit weird, I remember watching a very interesting video recounting their history and a lot of them are dependant on context and interpretation.

The old Marvel Universe handbooks suddenly established that the Super-Skrull only was "Class 15" in strength at best to compare with The Thing at "Class 85", which likely helped to cause these types of portrayals for some years. 🙏
This is straight up false and another reason why guidebooks are full of bullshit.
Up to the comic we've talked so far, Super-Skrull was consistently superior to the Thing, both by statements and showings; moreover, in his very first comic, Super Skrull lifts over 100 tons, with the Skrull scientists literally calling out the numbers.

If you're curious, here's my Super-Skrull WIP; it doesn't yet cover all the comics I've read because I wanted to good headstart before starting to write the file.
 
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