JJK Speed CRT 2

[ElJoaki5]

Piercing Blood speed
Piercing Blood is an attack that travels faster than sound but the exact speed varies. Here it's found to be supersonic and here to be supersonic+.
Piercing Blood's speed should be listed as "Supersonic to Supersonic+".

Agree: @Dalesean027 @Godernet Duedate8898

3f Sukuna speed
This calc gets 3f Sukuna to Subsonic+ so he should be upgraded to Subsonic+.

Agree: @Dalesean027 @Godernet Duedate8898

High Tiers combat speed
This calc finds Toji to be Supersonic+ in combat speed. Therefore, Toji and relative (Characters with Supersonic combat speed as of now) should have Supersonic+ combat speed.

Agree: @Dalesean027 @Godernet Duedate8898

Jogo attack speed
Jogo's attack speed should be Hypersonic+ due to this calc.

Agree: @Dalesean027 @Godernet Duedate8898 (All as Possibly rating)

15f Sukuna and God Tiers upgrade
15 f Sukuna dodged all the beams Jogo fired at him (0:11), same beams which where calculated to be Hypersonic+. He also promised to side with Jogo if he managed to land a single hit on him, but Jogo was unable to do it. He also dodged beams from close up (1:26) and Jogo states theres a massive gap in their strength.
So 15 f Sukuna easily scales to Hypersonic+, 20 f Sukuna does too due to scaling above 15 f. Everyone relative as per the pages also scales (Gojo, Mahoraga, Miguel, Yorozu)

Disagree: @Dalesean027

 

[Damage3245]

15 f Sukuna dodged all the beams Jogo fired at him (0:11), same beams which where calculated to be Hypersonic+. He also promised to side with Jogo if he managed to land a single hit on him, but Jogo was unable to do it.

You don't necessarily have to be as fast as a projectile to dodge it, depending on factors like distance and aim-dodging, etc.

 

[Electronic74947]

following

 

[Dalesean027]

You don't necessarily have to be as fast as a projectile to dodge it, depending on factors like distance and aim-dodging, etc.

Not even just that wouldn't that be an outlier for it to be Hyper+ anyways considering how the speed of piercing blood is considered to be notably fast even later into the series, doesn't make sense that random attacks from Jogo should be several times faster

Heck even considering the naoya stuff I'd say its hard to buy Jogo's random attacks being faster than shit than is notable in speed enough to be given direct narrative statements of how fast it is because its considered impressive

 

[ElJoaki5]

You don't necessarily have to be as fast as a projectile to dodge it, depending on factors like distance and aim-dodging, etc.

Jogo is completely unable to hit him no matter what he does, I dont think that really works as an excuse. Sukuna didn't aim dodge the hypersonic+ beams either, only the head beam. And he dodged a whole barrage of those.
He also dodged beams from close up (1:26) and Jogo states theres a massive gap in their strength.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Not even just that wouldn't that be an outlier for it to be Hyper+ anyways considering how the speed of piercing blood is considered to be notably fast even later into the series, doesn't make sense that random attacks from Jogo should be several times faster

Jogo has also been shown to use gas explosions agaisnt gojo (Ch14) which would be about 1700 m/s.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

easy agree.
Consistent with Sukuna being faster than everyone and blitzing piercing blood to a Hypersonic degree while incredibly weakened

 

[Arkenis]

Not even just that wouldn't that be an outlier for it to be Hyper+ anyways considering how the speed of piercing blood is considered to be notably fast even later into the series, doesn't make sense that random attacks from Jogo should be several times faster

That's by people who don't know Jogo. If you remember the disaster curses are basically a mystery in the modern era. PB's just known by sorcerers, a curse having faster attacks isn't an outlier.

 

[Dalesean027]

That's by people who don't know Jogo. If you remember the disaster curses are basically a mystery in the modern era. PB's just known by sorcerers, a curse having faster attacks isn't an outlier.

Dawg Choso knows Jogo, Kenjaku knows Jogo, Mahito knows Jogo none of them go "ah yes jogo is several times faster than the fastest shit we have with piercing blood"

Dawg in the same arc we get piercing blood Yuji literally has a 50/50 chance of being able to dodge it because its faster than sound being so fast its not even a replicatable feat if Choso could shoot 2 or 3 of them back to back.


This same Yuji goes on to fight a pitched battle against Mahito when would apparently shit on Jogo's speed when thats not the case at all especially when Naobito and Naoya are for sure faster than Yuji atp and they weren't even Mach 3 yet


This creates circular scaling that doesn't make sense at all

 

[ElJoaki5]

This same Yuji goes on to fight a pitched battle against Mahito when would apparently shit on Jogo's speed when thats not the case at all especially when Naobito and Naoya are for sure faster than Yuji atp and they weren't even Mach 3 yet

Are you saying mahito would be scaling to Jogos attack speed? Thats not proposed, neither him or jogo are scaling to this with their own combat speed.

 

[Arkenis]

Dawg Choso knows Jogo, Kenjaku knows Jogo, Mahito knows Jogo none of them go "ah yes jogo is everal times faster than the fastest shit we have with piercing blood"

You said PB is notably fast. Choso doesn't think that nor has he said it. Kenjaku doesn't think it's impressive or notably fast and dodges it several times. Why would characters say Jogo's faster than PB? They never interact (Jogo and PB)

Dawg in the same arc we get piercing blood Yuji literally has a 50/50 chance of being able to dodge it because its faster than sound being so fast its not even a replicatable feat if Choso could shoot 2 of them back to back.

This isn't scaling Shibuya characters like Yuji, why does it matter?

This same Yuji goes on to fight a pitched battle against Mahito when would apparently shit on Jogo's speed when thats not the case at all especially when Naobito and Naoya are for sure faster than Yuji atp and they weren't even Mach 3 yet

Who thinks Mahito would shit on Jogo's speed?

 

[Dalesean027]

You said PB is notably fast. Choso doesn't think that nor has he said it. Kenjaku doesn't think it's impressive or notably fast and dodges it several times.

Notice how they explicitly aren't faster than it and note its initial velocity to be its top speed while dodging it at a distance, almost as if they AREN'T faster than it

This isn't scaling Shibuya characters like Yuji, why does it matter?

Because you're claiming its faster than shit that's impossible for characters to consistently dodge at the stage of the series

 

[Dalesean027]

What im asking for is narrative proof that its not an outlier for this to be faster than Naoya's Mach 3 or Piercing blood since you're proposing the scaling you need to back it up

 

[ElJoaki5]

Notice how they explicitly aren't faster than it and note its initial velocity to be its top speed while dodging it at a distance, almost as if they AREN'T faster than it

Context matters here. Kenjaku is saying when PB is first fired its fast. But afterwards, when Choso just swings it side to side, its not dangerous anymore

 

[Dalesean027]

Context matters here. Kenjaku is saying when PB is first fired its fast. But afterwards, when Choso just swings it side to side, its not dangerous anymore

Im aware? This ain't answering anything

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Notice how they explicitly aren't faster than it and note its initial velocity to be its top speed while dodging it at a distance, almost as if they AREN'T faster than it

Hey i agree with you general thinking but that's wrong. Piercing blood initial speed (straight line) is faster than anything later, since Choso cannot move it horizontally at transonic/supersonic speed and works more like a whip

So if you dodge the initial straight line of the piercing blood, you don't need to worry about transonic speeds anymore since Choso cannot move his arm that fast

 

[Dalesean027]

Hey i agree with you general thinking but that's wrong. Piercing blood initial speed (straight line) is faster than anything later, since Choso cannot move it horizontally at transonic/supersonic speed and works more like a whip

So if you dodge the initial straight line of the piercing blood, you don't need to worry about transonic speeds anymore since Choso cannot move his arm that fast

Yeah this has no bearing on what I said? Why would I be talking about him whipping his arms afterwards if we know his arms aren't whats supersonic~

 

[Arkenis]

Notice how they explicitly aren't faster than it and note its initial velocity to be its top speed while dodging it at a distance, almost as if they AREN'T faster than it

Kenjaku didn't dodge it at a distance? Also why would that be a problem? Dodging from distance is the better feat, there was a whole thread about feats where people dodge when something's closer being the worse feat vs dodging when the projectile is at distance.

Because you're claiming its faster than shit that's impossible for characters to consistently dodge at the stage of the series

So? This happens all the time in fiction. Characters go from being unable to keep up and then get amps and can dodge even faster characters. You have to explain why you're against this very concept being done here.

What im asking for is narrative proof that its not an outlier for this to be faster than Naoya's Mach 3 or Piercing blood since you're proposing the scaling you need to back it up

What is the narrative proof mach 3 or pb are somehow above Jogo's attacks? You're not connecting this logic to the story at all. The disaster curses are complete mysteries in the verse and have no reason to be held down by a clan's fastest attack and a random curse's speed.

 

[ElJoaki5]

What im asking for is narrative proof that its not an outlier for this to be faster than Naoya's Mach 3 or Piercing blood since you're proposing the scaling you need to back it up

Its more like theres no proof Jogos attack is slower than any of the two to begin with cause its never compared or seen side to side. But anyway.

• Jogo has shown other attacks which are speedwise superior to both, like attacking with gas explosions.
• This is for attack speed. Naoya's statement doesn't matter because its about his own movement speed, nothing stops anyone from having an attack speed higher than Naoya's movement speed (as long as it doesnt make characters shown to be slower than Naoya faster than him via scaling chain, which is not the case here because only the top tiers are scaling to Jogos attack).
• Piercing Blood has been shown to not be that impressive among high tiers, Kenjaku was casually avoiding it, even at point black range.

 

[Dalesean027]

Kenjaku didn't dodge it at a distance? Also why would that be a problem? Dodging from distance is the better feat, there was a whole thread about feats where people dodge when something's closer being the worse feat vs dodging when the projectile is at distance.

Dawg what if I dodging something going 343m/s from like 20m away and I only move like 1m in that time then my movement is only like 17m/s. You're textbook slower than whats being shot at you.

So? This happens all the time in fiction. Characters go from being unable to keep up and then get amps and can dodge even faster characters. You have to explain why you're against this very concept being done here.

I don't you're the ones proposing this scaling you have to prove narratively why it works, the burden of proof falls on you here.

This is for attack speed. Naoya's statement doesn't matter because its about his own movement speed, nothing stops anyone from having an attack speed higher than Naoya's movement speed (as long as it doesnt make characters shown to be slower than Naoya faster than him via scaling chain, which is not the case here because only the top tiers are scaling to Jogos attack).

Actually does because that caps a significant portion of the verse so to claim its faster than some of the fastest stuff in verse thats treated with the narrative care to actually get statements because of how fast it is just doesn't work

 

[ElJoaki5]

Actually does because that caps a significant portion of the verse so to claim its faster than some of the fastest stuff in verse rhats treated with the narrative care to actually get statements because of how fast it is just doesn't work

Naoya was only shown to be superior to pre-training Maki, and all the characters being upgraded here scale above her.

 

[Dalesean027]

At work still gimme a while before I can comment back here

 

[Arkenis]

Dawg what if I dodging something going 343m/s from like 20m away and I only move like 1m in that time then my movement is only like 17m/s. You're textbook slower than whats being shot at you.

Not the scenario here and we don't scale everything down to this specific either.

I don't you're the ones proposing this scaling you have to prove narratively why it works, the burden of proof falls on you here.

And nothing contradicts the proposal. You haven't shown people still being slower than PB and the manga just doesn't demonstrate that through wording or feats at all. This attack is used maybe 5 times after Shibuya at its top speed and is NEVER shown to be faster than the high tiers.

Actually does because that caps a significant portion of the verse so to claim its faster than some of the fastest stuff in verse thats treated with the narrative care to actually get statements because of how fast it is just doesn't work

You're over exaggerating the narrative care and until you demonstrate the significance Naoya's Mach 3 and PB are to the speed of the god tiers, there's nothing to discuss unfortunately.

 

[AyOgUyS]

AGREEEEEEEEEEEEE
Mach 5+ JJK is lowkey consistent

 

[Mommyleona]

15F Sukuna definitely should've scaled above the rest of the verse long time ago

 

[Buraqibear]

Agree.

No one in Kenjaku's group even mentions Piercing Blood's speed being faster than all of them, they never even discuss it on screen. Not a valid argument, that's just vibe scaling. Jogo would've also been focusing on speed rather than attack power here since he just needed one hit to win, unless there's clear narrative implication or statements of Piercing Blood being faster than Jogo's attack speed, it doesn't cap him. Jogo is strong, strong enough for Kenjaku to want to absorb him along with Mahito (who was literally essential for his plan). And to be strong he needs to be fast too, at least in attack speed. No one apart from Sukuna and the mentioned characters would scale to his attack speed anyway, not himself, not anyone below high end high tier level.

Sukuna was straight up teleporting out of Jogo's beams and was doing so consistently and effortlessly, you can't say he doesn't scale to it. 15-16F Sukuna can also blitz people on Culling Games Yuta's level so you can't say it's an outlier to the mach 3 either because Sukuna is clearly shown to be faster than characters close to that cap.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Sukuna was straight up teleporting out of Jogo's beams and was doing so consistently and effortlessly, you can't say he doesn't scale to it. 15-16F Sukuna can also blitz people on Culling Games Yuta's level so you can't say it's an outlier to the mach 3 either because Sukuna is clearly shown to be faster than characters close to that cap.

You kind of can considering usually there's some level of distance between them and even for the headbeam there's like a whole second of delay between him moving his head down and the beam actually firing. If you want to complain that people putting PB above Jogo's attacks is vibe scaling, fair, but this is also just vibe scaling considering we see Sukuna dodging his attacks and all he has to do for any of them is either dodge Jogo's very obvious attack patterns (wherever his hand is moving or his big ass head)

Also ngl rewatching the fight for this Jogo has the most dog aim known to man. The first bunch of shots at Sukuna the dude just straight misses and Sukuna didn't even have to dodge.

 

[ElJoaki5]

You kind of can considering usually there's some level of distance between them and even for the headbeam there's like a whole second of delay between him moving his head down and the beam actually firing. If you want to complain that people putting PB above Jogo's attacks is vibe scaling, fair, but this is also just vibe scaling considering we see Sukuna dodging his attacks and all he has to do for any of them is either dodge Jogo's very obvious attack patterns (wherever his hand is moving or his big ass head)

Also ngl rewatching the fight for this Jogo has the most dog aim known to man. The first bunch of shots at Sukuna the dude just straight misses and Sukuna didn't even have to dodge.

While Sukuna does dodge from afar, Jogo being completely unable to land a hit on Sukuna no matter what he tries should be enough reason to scale anyways. He also dodged attacks from close range in 1:26

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

While Sukuna does dodge from afar, Jogo being completely unable to land a hit on Sukuna no matter what he tries should be enough reason to scale anyways. He also dodged attacks from close range in 1:26

Not really when, again, all those attacks still have to be fired by him using his own physical speed and he is vastly slower than Sukuna physically.

We also see those attacks going visibly slower than the ones he directly fires from himself. If you want to get an actual speed, just use the speed of the attacks you got and calculate how fast Sukuna would have to be to dodge them (only in the specific scenes those attacks happen though cause otherwise it'd be calc stacking and it'd get rejected).

Also you can directly link a timestamp on youtube by hitting share and then hitting "start at (insert whatever time the current video is at)".

 

[ElJoaki5]

And what about the other stuff?

 

[Arkenis]

If you want to get an actual speed, just use the speed of the attacks you got and calculate how fast Sukuna would have to be to dodge them

What about the gatlin gun type of thing Jogo did? Can that be calced off the frames and how many fire and the distance covered?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

And what about the other stuff?

What do you mean? For Jogo v Sukuna fight and the speed from that or the CRT as a whole?

What about the gatlin gun type of thing Jogo did? Can that be calced off the frames and how many fire and the distance covered?

Pretty much. If Sukuna is in there I guess you could compare his movements to the shots but the scene has the dark filter over it so I can’t tell

 

[ElJoaki5]

What do you mean? For Jogo v Sukuna fight and the speed from that or the CRT as a whole?

The rest of the crt

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

The rest of the crt

Rest seems fine. Mostly just have issues with Sukuna and the rest scaling directly to Jogo’s attack speed

 

[Lilybitdun]

It's only Jogo's attack speed that scales to Hypersonic+, I don't understand why the argument is saying he can't be physically faster than PB when that isn't what's happening here. Plus Jogo already has an accepted Supersonic attack speed with his meteor so it's like not his attacks cannot be at PB level or faster

15f Sukuna is already blitzing characters that are reacting to supersonic attacks (Granite Blast & Piercing Blood). I do slightly agree that his dodging could've been calced but I also feel like considering he never gets hit and Jogo's statement about him that it's fair to directly scale him to the attack speed

Agree with the rest of the CRT too

 

[Ezaru]

Kenjaku didn't dodge it at a distance? Also why would that be a problem? Dodging from distance is the better feat, there was a whole thread about feats where people dodge when something's closer being the worse feat vs dodging when the projectile is at distance.

No? They arent? Are you refering to the the thread about those "last second dodge" (i.e. Naruto vs Raikage) feats?

 

[Arkenis]

No? They arent? Are you refering to the the thread about those "last second dodge" (i.e. Naruto vs Raikage) feats?

Not sure if they were involved. But I'm talking about calcs where people would dodge attacks close at them, this initially was just allowed but that got changed as it means a character couldn't react before it got close enough. Here's the thread you're probably talking about, and here's the thread I'm referring to.

 

[Ezaru]

Not sure if they were involved. But I'm talking about calcs where people would dodge attacks close at them, this initially was just allowed but that got changed as it means a character couldn't react before it got close enough. Here's the thread you're probably talking about, and here's the thread I'm referring to.

Yeah, thats what I am refering too, I see what you mean now but the way you phrased it was weird.

Yes dodging an attack fired from far away, up close is less impressive

But dodging close up is still more impressive if the projectile didnt fly a bunch before

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

3f Sukuna speed
This calc gets 3f Sukuna to Subsonic+ so he should be upgraded to Subsonic+.

High Tiers combat speed
This calc finds Toji to be Supersonic+ in combat speed. Therefore, Toji and relative (Characters with Supersonic combat speed as of now) should have Supersonic+ combat speed.

3F Sukuna and Toji should not be far apart in speed. Megumi notes that Toji is MAYBE faster than a casual 3F Sukuna, so it would be impossible for them to be that far apart from each other. It's almost a 4x diff in speed. It's as if I watched a car run at 160Km/h and say that it's maybe faster than a human running at 40km/h, it just does not work.

Not only that, but Sukuna plays around way too much, so we can't even say if he was going full speed with Megumi at first. Like, Sukuna has his own mechanic where his cursed energy waves when he is bored. Just see his fight against Maki, it took him a whole beat down to start to use his real speed and speedblitz her

Jogo attack speed
Jogo's attack speed should be Hypersonic+ due to this calc.

This got some problems. It's implied that Naobito, who is below the mach 3 cap, could have dodged Jogo's lasers if he was at his peak. However, I can see an argument that Naobito could aim dodge it, since we see that Jogo's vulcans needs to charge before attacking, so technically Naobito would have reacted better and dodged it. But that's WAY TOO much of a mental gymnastic and too vague, at best I can see it being accepted as a "Possible Hypersonic+" based on the feats that happened against Sukuna, but otherwise nah.

You kind of can considering usually there's some level of distance between them and even for the headbeam there's like a whole second of delay between him moving his head down and the beam actually firing. If you want to complain that people putting PB above Jogo's attacks is vibe scaling, fair, but this is also just vibe scaling considering we see Sukuna dodging his attacks and all he has to do for any of them is either dodge Jogo's very obvious attack patterns (wherever his hand is moving or his big ass head)

Also ngl rewatching the fight for this Jogo has the most dog aim known to man. The first bunch of shots at Sukuna the dude just straight misses and Sukuna didn't even have to dodge.

I disagree with this notion. Not only Sukuna is far faster than Jogo by the simple fact that he literally TELEPORTS in the fight via sheer speed, something that none of the lasers from Jogo could do, but it's just dumb to assume that the lasers are that faster than Sukuna. Even a speed difference of barely 3 times (Maki and Cursed Naoya) is enough to **** you a lot in JJK, or the Piercing Blood with Itadori and so on. If it was that much faster, Sukuna wouldn't act so casual around Jogo

Not only that, but we have numerous scenes of Sukuna intercepting Jogo's lasers with dismantles.

Actually does because that caps a significant portion of the verse so to claim its faster than some of the fastest stuff in verse thats treated with the narrative care to actually get statements because of how fast it is just doesn't work

To be all fair, Jogo is extremly strong and good enough to make even Kenjaku get interested in him due to his raw power, who is hypersonic and 7-C. Jogo's cursed technique is several times shown to be far above his body per say. To go more deep into it

Jogo is stated to be fragile and have a weak body but is stronger and faster due to his elemental type, while as well being stated numerous times to be far stronger than 3F Sukuna (1, 2, 3), who does have a speed around Toji's, who scales to Supersonic-Supersonic+ values, all this while Jogo is probably slower than Naobito.
So I guess it's fair to assume that Jogo's cursed technque speed and raw power > his body in general

I can see it as a "possible Hypersonic+" but otherwise nah

 

[Apotheosis69]

Does that mean EoS Yuji and Yuta scale to the God Tier speeds with them full on going against that same fully weakened Sukuna, and Not getting blitzed? Genuinely curious