Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

[GinDan]

Once again, everyone keeps saying I’m trolling, but nobody can show me a single scene where Dante, Vergil, or Urizen destroy a planet, a sun, or anything on that level. Even at the end of DMC1, Dante literally escapes Mallet Island because the island’s explosion would have killed him.

which is weird, because if his durability were truly “universal level,” that explosion shouldn’t have done anything to him.
The real problem is that the power scaling just doesn’t make sense anymore. If you asked Itsuno whether Dante could destroy a universe, he’d probably just look at you confused, like, “What? This isn’t Dragon Ball.”
In DMC5, the only real threat is the Qliphoth tree, and even that just destroyed a town it was never a planetary-level threat. -> Vergil said this 8:25

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Alright, since people think I’m trolling, then show me one scene I mean one scene not two or three , of planetery or galaxy destruction in Devil May Cry 3, 4, or 5

The real Dante profil here https://psbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dante_(Devil_May_Cry)#DMC_5 .

It was entertaining to read at least (I saw a few statements and feats on the profile that are straight up tier 7 or higher yet Dante is capped at tier 8 lol!).

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Days since last conflation of attack potency with area-of-effect: zero

To say nothing about the general aesthetic of how vs-debating approaches feats & anti-feats. One can be CinemaSins on pretty much any superhuman fantasy story. "How can one move faster-than-light and still see, it doesn't make sense!"

 

[GinDan]

Recently I played Clair Obscur 33 , and honestly, that game really puts a heavy emphasis onraw power especially when you’ve got characters literally tearing through reality . None of the characters in DMC3 , 4 , 5 ever do something like that. The only one who comes close is mundus in dmc1 and Pluto in POC.

And since DMC1 is supposedly canon with Itsuno’s DMC games, that kind of changes how you scale things.


Now, if we ever get a DMC1 remake, it really depends on who’s in charge.

• If it’s Itsuno, I’m pretty sure he’d tone down or completely remove the cosmic feats — he’d keep it grounded within his current vision of the series.
• But if it’s Kamiya, then I have zero doubt Dante would be universal-level. That man loves his divine-scale power fantasy.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Recently I played Clair Obscur 33 , and honestly, that game really puts a heavy emphasis onraw power especially when you’ve got characters literally tearing through reality . None of the characters in DMC3 , 4 , 5 ever do something like that. The only one who comes close is mundus in dmc1 and Pluto in POC.

And since DMC1 is supposedly canon with Itsuno’s DMC games, that kind of changes how you scale things.


Now, if we ever get a DMC1 remake, it really depends on who’s in charge.

• If it’s Itsuno, I’m pretty sure he’d tone down or completely remove the cosmic feats — he’d keep it grounded within his current vision of the series.
• But if it’s Kamiya, then I have zero doubt Dante would be universal-level. That man loves his divine-scale power fantasy.

Literally no one here will agree with you, so you should stop wasting your time on this lol (and if you're trolling, you can stop now, we get it).

 

[GinDan]

Literally no one here will agree with you, so you should stop wasting your time on this lol (and if you're trolling, you can stop now, we get it).

Come debunk me, I’m asking for proof and I’m not trolling.


This is literally the only community where someone destroys a wall or an island and suddenly they’re multiversal level. It’s ridiculous.


Once again, prove that I’m wrong, prove that I’m talking nonsense.
Show me actual evidence from DMC4 or DMC5 of any character who can destroy a planet or a universe. You won’t, because there’s none.


If Dante got hit by a nuclear bomb, he’d die instantly. The only weapon in DMC that has anything close to divine or reality-warping power is Yamato, since it can cut through dimensions.


Anyway, I can’t wait to see Death Battle where Clive wipes out Dante, because Clive’s power is way closer to the divine than anything Dante has ever shown.

 

[Emerald]

make a crt and wait

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Come debunk me, I’m asking for proof and I’m not trolling.


This is literally the only community where someone destroys a wall or an island and suddenly they’re multiversal level. It’s ridiculous.


Once again, prove that I’m wrong, prove that I’m talking nonsense.
Show me actual evidence from DMC4 or DMC5 of any character who can destroy a planet or a universe. You won’t, because there’s none.


If Dante got hit by a nuclear bomb, he’d die instantly. The only weapon in DMC that has anything close to divine or reality-warping power is Yamato, since it can cut through dimensions.


Anyway, I can’t wait to see Death Battle where Clive wipes out Dante, because Clive’s power is way closer to the divine than anything Dante has ever shown.

You literally have all the evidence you need on the Devil May Cry pages already.

Anyway, I can’t wait to see Death Battle where Clive wipes out Dante, because Clive’s power is way closer to the divine than anything Dante has ever shown.

Asura has much better on-screen feats than Kratos, and yet the latter beat the former in their Death Battle lol.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Why you entertain this nobody specimen and his non sense yapping, he does this for a long time and from how he talks and talks its instantly reddit level of debating IQ

 

[GinDan]

Why you entertain this nobody specimen and his non sense yapping, he does this for a long time and from how he talks and talks its instantly reddit level of debating IQ

still better than vsb shit

 

[GinDan]

make a crt and wait

i will

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

i will

Do it please, it will be so funny to see it shut down

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

i will

Can’t wait

 

[Tanin_iver]

Haven't seen you @GinDan around here in a while.

Sorry but for me Dante Kamiya is stronger than itsuno Dante

I can kinda see where you are coming from. Itsuno and Morihashi are a lot more subtle in their cosmic portrayals of DMC which also makes the gameplay remain more grounded with the setting, while Kamiya and also Shinya's Novels are more blatant in their portrayals of Cosmic DMC.

Alright, since people think I’m trolling, then show me one scene I mean one scene not two or three, of planetary or galaxy destruction in Devil May Cry 3, 4, or 5.

Do you like need a reminder of what you might have just missed out while you were uber focused on trying to find EXPROSIIOONNS?
The only problem is there probably aren't many characters in the series who are remotely interested in destroying things. Characters are focused either on saving or conquering them.
This isn't like Dragonball where characters flex their power by nuking planets or stars or other celestial objects.

The only weapon in DMC that has anything close to divine or reality-warping power is Yamato, since it can cut through dimensions.

Hmmm, so you do recall something.

 

[Drite77]

This isn't like Dragonball where characters flex their power by nuking planets or stars or other celestial objects.

I mean, they don't really do that a lot in the manga, there is a bit more in the anime with fillers, but overall, they don't destroy those to flex their powers

 

[GinDan]

Haven't seen you @GinDan around here in a while.

I can kinda see where you are coming from. Itsuno and Morihashi are a lot more subtle in their cosmic portrayals of DMC which also makes the gameplay remain more grounded with the setting, while Kamiya and also Shinya's Novels are more blatant in their portrayals of Cosmic DMC.

Do you like need a reminder of what you might have just missed out while you were uber focused on trying to find EXPROSIIOONNS?
The only problem is there probably aren't many characters in the series who are remotely interested in destroying things. Characters are focused either on saving or conquering them.
This isn't like Dragonball where characters flex their power by nuking planets or stars or other celestial objects.

Hmmm, so you do recall something.

I get what you mean. I’m not asking for DMC to be like Asura’s Wrath, destroying billions of galaxies or anything like that. It’s more like Skyrim or The Elder Scrolls you can kill Alduin with a bow and arrow, but one of the developers explained that this doesn’t reflect the characters’ true power, since there are technical limitations.


I just wish Itsuno would say something like, “In DMC5, the characters are basically god-like, but due to technical limitations, we can’t fully show cosmic or divine-level feats.”


Something simple like that would make things clear. For example, Vergil could’ve just said, “If we don’t cut down the tree, it could spread across the planet and even the entire universe.” That alone would’ve made their level of power much easier to understand, instead of keeping everything at a city-level scale.

 

[Pyro9278]

There's also the fact that AP isn't strictly tied to DC. And this isn't something that only happens in DMC; it literally applies to all fiction.

God-level or high-level beings don't need to destroy universes, galaxies, or even planets to consider it a feat, but WE KNOW they can.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I get what you mean. I’m not asking for DMC to be like Asura’s Wrath, destroying billions of galaxies or anything like that. It’s more like Skyrim or The Elder Scrolls you can kill Alduin with a bow and arrow, but one of the developers explained that this doesn’t reflect the characters’ true power, since there are technical limitations.


I just wish Itsuno would say something like, “In DMC5, the characters are basically god-like, but due to technical limitations, we can’t fully show cosmic or divine-level feats.”


Something simple like that would make things clear. For example, Vergil could’ve just said, “If we don’t cut down the tree, it could spread across the planet and even the entire universe.” That alone would’ve made their level of power much easier to understand, instead of keeping everything at a city-level scale.

Because AP is not the same as DC, as already explained.

But also, there are cosmic feats in the lore; we just haven't seen them on screen. It's not just statements saying that X or Y characters can achieve certain cosmic feats but they never have; the DMC characters actually accomplished them, but in the lore.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Look, I don't really care about the downplay and stuff but its clear you haven't played the other games if you are claiming they don't have cosmic bs going on

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Look, I don't really care about the downplay and stuff but its clear you haven't played the other games if you are claiming they don't have cosmic bs going on

He probably knows it, but he also probably only cares about on-screen feats and not about lore and statements.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He probably knows it, but he also probably only cares about on-screen feats and not about lore and statements.

I mean, DMC2 has on screen world merging, DMC3 and 4 are fine since they are on the lower end for obvious reasons and 5 has the Qliphoth breaking the barrier between worlds and posing the thread of eventual merge again

 

[Huesito88]

I mean, DMC2 has on screen world merging, DMC3 and 4 are fine since they are on the lower end for obvious reasons and 5 has the Qliphoth breaking the barrier between worlds and posing the thread of eventual merge again

UES isn't real Tony so those don't scale to Striking strength or combat AP ovo =P

 

[GinDan]

Look, I don't really care about the downplay and stuff but its clear you haven't played the other games if you are claiming they don't have cosmic bs going on

only DMC1 have cosmic like Mundus
and POC
IN DMC2 we have this with Arius

With all the budget Capcom has, it really wouldn’t be that hard to pull something like that off. There are games that came out years earlier and even some mobile games that managed to do it better.


It’s simple really. Even if I compare DMC3 Dante vs Vergil, I find that fight way more impressive than DMC5 Dante vs Vergil. In DMC3, they’re literally slicing raindrops mid-air, and it feels powerful and intense. Meanwhile, in DMC5, they’re supposed to be god-like beings, yet their destructive power seems limited to the level of a building or a wall.


Even The Savior from DMC4 looks more impressive in terms of environmental destruction than Urizen. Urizen’s biggest feat is basically defeating Dante, who defeated Mundus, but that’s only because we have to scale things according to DMC1’s canon.


Honestly, in DMC5 they could have easily added a simple touch. For example, when Urizen creates the Void, the training area, they could have shown it slowly collapsing as the fight went on, and in the description they could have said something like: “In his post-Fruit form, Urizen’s power is so immense he can create infinite universes.”


What’s even funnier is that when I browse different power-scaling sites in Spanish, German, and French, the French description of Urizen literally says he’s so powerful he can destroy the foundations of the universe. But in English, it’s toned down, it just says the foundations of the world or something like that.

 

[Emerald]

What’s even funnier is that when I browse different power-scaling sites in Spanish, German, and French, the French description of Urizen literally says he’s so powerful he can destroy the foundations of the universe. But in English, it’s toned down, it just says the foundations of the world or something like that.

thats why you check the raws

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

only DMC1 have cosmic like Mundus
and POC
IN DMC2 we have this with Arius

With all the budget Capcom has, it really wouldn’t be that hard to pull something like that off. There are games that came out years earlier and even some mobile games that managed to do it better.


It’s simple really. Even if I compare DMC3 Dante vs Vergil, I find that fight way more impressive than DMC5 Dante vs Vergil. In DMC3, they’re literally slicing raindrops mid-air, and it feels powerful and intense. Meanwhile, in DMC5, they’re supposed to be god-like beings, yet their destructive power seems limited to the level of a building or a wall.


Even The Savior from DMC4 looks more impressive in terms of environmental destruction than Urizen. Urizen’s biggest feat is basically defeating Dante, who defeated Mundus, but that’s only because we have to scale things according to DMC1’s canon.


Honestly, in DMC5 they could have easily added a simple touch. For example, when Urizen creates the Void, the training area, they could have shown it slowly collapsing as the fight went on, and in the description they could have said something like: “In his post-Fruit form, Urizen’s power is so immense he can create infinite universes.”


What’s even funnier is that when I browse different power-scaling sites in Spanish, German, and French, the French description of Urizen literally says he’s so powerful he can destroy the foundations of the universe. But in English, it’s toned down, it just says the foundations of the world or something like that.

Why ignore the lore and all its 2-C feats? Why talk about DMC1 as if it weren't canon to the other games?

 

[GinDan]

thats why you check the raws

What does it say in Japanese?

Why ignore the lore and all its 2-C feats? Why talk about DMC1 as if it weren't canon to the other games?

In my opinion, if Capcom ever makes a remake of DMC1, I’ll consider it canon. The original DMC1 is just too different from the other games. For one thing, Dante has multiple Devil Triggers depending on his weapon, which already sets it apart.


Then there’s Dante’s personality. To me, there are actually several versions of Dante. There’s the novel Dante from Volume 1, the DMC1 Dante, and the novel Dante from Volume 2.


Then you have DMC2 Dante, who feels completely out of place, but I still group him with Kamiya’s vision of Dante. And finally, there’s Itsuno’s Dante — the one we see in DMC3, the anime, DMC4, DMC5, Before the Nightmare, and Vision of V.

If there’s ever a DMC remake in the near future, I’m 100% sure Dante will have a lot of cosmic-level feats. I also think his personality will be different.


My personal vision of DMC is closer to Kamiya’s version, which blends witches, angels, and demons. Itsuno’s vision, on the other hand, focuses more on demons and humans.

Don’t forget that Bingo Morihashi doesn’t really like writing for Dante, because he doesn’t see him as his character unlike Nero.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

What does it say in Japanese?



In my opinion, if Capcom ever makes a remake of DMC1, I’ll consider it canon. The original DMC1 is just too different from the other games. For one thing, Dante has multiple Devil Triggers depending on his weapon, which already sets it apart.


Then there’s Dante’s personality. To me, there are actually several versions of Dante. There’s the novel Dante from Volume 1, the DMC1 Dante, and the novel Dante from Volume 2.


Then you have DMC2 Dante, who feels completely out of place, but I still group him with Kamiya’s vision of Dante. And finally, there’s Itsuno’s Dante — the one we see in DMC3, the anime, DMC4, DMC5, Before the Nightmare, and Vision of V.

If there’s ever a DMC remake in the near future, I’m 100% sure Dante will have a lot of cosmic-level feats. I also think his personality will be different.


My personal vision of DMC is closer to Kamiya’s version, which blends witches, angels, and demons. Itsuno’s vision, on the other hand, focuses more on demons and humans.

Don’t forget that Bingo Morihashi doesn’t really like writing for Dante, because he doesn’t see him as his character unlike Nero.

According to your headcanon, yes, but officially DMC 1 is undoubtedly canon to the other games. And why ignore all the 2-C feats in the lore?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

guys just ignore him, isnt not like a canon video that explain the timeline about DMC history... oh yeah, it is

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

lol

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So, what happens now? the demon phys is getting reworked, tier 1 attempt will likely happen next year and the other profiles don't look that bad

 

[Tanin_iver]

So, what happens now?

What do you mean?
Also, I have to work on that terminology page.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

So, what happens now?

- The speed upgrade to Infinite or Immeasurable speed

- Metaphysical revisions part 2

- I've planned a few minor threads to add abilities and/or improve some pages that look bad (but I can't do complex edits for now because my computer is terrible, I have to wait several days)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I just finished Volume 2 and it seems to be a mess in terms of powerscaling:

- Trish from the alternate universe was stronger and faster than Dante because she had Alastor (Dante himself said so and only beat her through cunning and skill). Since when does Alastor boost its user to that extent? The worst part is that Dante struggled against an amp Trish but easily beat Void Mundus a few pages later. Trish w/ Alastor is superior to Void Mundus, what the hell? The only explanation I have is that Dante became astronomically more powerful between these two fights, probably thanks to the energy of the nexus, and that would mean that EoS Volume 2 Dante > Void Mundus > Trish w/Alastor > Volume 2 Dante > or = Anime Dante > Abigail = Mundus = Argosax

- Dante had difficulty beating Chen partly because he had Sparda's skill (according to Chen and Dante himself) whereas Dante was supposed to have surpassed Sparda since he was able to beat Void Mundus who killed Sparda. Does this mean that Sparda is superior to Void Mundus and that Dante only surpassed Sparda after defeating Chen? Or perhaps Dante was already stronger and faster than Sparda, but he still hadn't surpassed his skill at that point?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Also, fun fact, Enzo retroactively never appeared in Volume 2 according to the first radio drama (which isn't a big deal since Enzo only appears at the beginning of the story and doesn't serve much purpose in the novel, but it's still interesting to mention).

 

[Ang4I00]

I just finished Volume 2 and it seems to be a mess in terms of powerscaling:

- Trish from the alternate universe was stronger and faster than Dante because she had Alastor (Dante himself said so and only beat her through cunning and skill). Since when does Alastor boost its user to that extent? The worst part is that Dante struggled against an amp Trish but easily beat Void Mundus a few pages later. Trish w/ Alastor is superior to Void Mundus, what the hell? The only explanation I have is that Dante became astronomically more powerful between these two fights, probably thanks to the energy of the nexus, and that would mean that EoS Volume 2 Dante > Void Mundus > Trish w/Alastor > Volume 2 Dante > or = Anime Dante > Abigail = Mundus = Argosax

There's no evidence suggesting he got stronger given that the two fights aren't even too far from each other in terms of time, the most plausible explanation is that Dante was holding back significantly against Trish, to a bigger extent than he was with VM, he was even depressed after killing her. Either that or an outlier, the novel very clearly established that Mundus doesn't have minions that are more powerful than him.

- Dante had difficulty beating Chen partly because he had Sparda's skill (according to Chen and Dante himself) whereas Dante was supposed to have surpassed Sparda since he was able to beat Void Mundus who killed Sparda. Does this mean that Sparda is superior to Void Mundus and that Dante only surpassed Sparda after defeating Chen? Or perhaps Dante was already stronger and faster than Sparda, but he still hadn't surpassed his skill at that point?

That's only skill, Chen was equal or more powerful than Dante at that point in sheer power so skill did play a part. Void Mundus didn't 1v1 Sparda, humans poisoned him and brought him to Mundus, paralyzed.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

There's no evidence suggesting he got stronger given that the two fights aren't even too far from each other in terms of time, the most plausible explanation is that Dante was holding back significantly against Trish, to a bigger extent than he was with VM, he was even depressed after killing her. Either that or an outlier, the novel very clearly established that Mundus doesn't have minions that are more powerful than him.

Dante definitely wasn't holding back; he himself said that this Trish was more powerful than his Trish, that she was powered by Alastor, and that he genuinely had a hard time against her.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Dante definitely wasn't holding back; he himself said that this Trish was more powerful than his Trish, that she was powered by Alastor, and that he genuinely had a hard time against her.

Tbf the main Trish from 1 to anime was Lady tier, at 8-C level, till in 4 she reached as far as 4-C

Did Alastor in canon grant Dante a huge increase or something?

Also Dante in anime was already more depressed and laid back after the events of 1, he likely wasnt fond to face Trish yet again with her being under Mundus wing....again....just reiterating something he had to deal in the past but this time she couldnt be changed over

Also mainline Mundus didnt make demons above him, as seen with Nightmare which was his most powerful, so why would VM have a Trish of this level of power

Its more logical to call it outlierish or Dante had a hard time more precisely in a state of mind rather then physicals

 

[Tanin_iver]

Trish from the alternate universe was stronger and faster than Dante because she had Alastor (Dante himself said so and only beat her through cunning and skill). Since when does Alastor boost its user to that extent? The worst part is that Dante struggled against an amp Trish but easily beat Void Mundus a few pages later. Trish w/ Alastor is superior to Void Mundus, what the hell? The only explanation I have is that Dante became astronomically more powerful between these two fights, probably thanks to the energy of the nexus, and that would mean that EoS Volume 2 Dante > Void Mundus > Trish w/Alastor > Volume 2 Dante > or = Anime Dante > Abigail = Mundus = Argosax

Guess what, you figured out that our current scaling meta is quite wrong.

Except I will put Abigail =/= Mundus. I agree with the rest.

Also the one Anime Dante fights is Sid being amped by Abigail's powers, so he may not even be as strong as Prime Abigail.

Abigail also need not be Mundus level, can just be Pluto level to be Demon King.

Also mainline Mundus didnt make demons above him, as seen with Nightmare which was his most powerful, so why would VM have a Trish of this level of power

Or just that Dante isn't as strong till Vol 2 in base as we think he is and he is fighting a Trish that is significantly more amped by a stronger Mundus.

He also gets amped with DE in his journey towards the Keep and he gets really really strong mid fight (extreme RE) with VM maybe.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Except I will put Abigail =/= Mundus. I agree with the rest.

Also the one Anime Dante fights is Sid being amped by Abigail's powers, so he may not even be as strong as Prime Abigail.

Abigail also need not be Mundus level, can just be Pluto level to be Demon King.

I find it hard to believe that Madhouse was referring to an obscure demon king that almost no one in the fanbase knows about, and not to Mundus, who is usually called the Demon King and is the most well-known antagonist in the franchise (after Vergil).

Tbf the main Trish from 1 to anime was Lady tier, at 8-C level, till in 4 she reached as far as 4-C

Did Alastor in canon grant Dante a huge increase or something?

Also Dante in anime was already more depressed and laid back after the events of 1, he likely wasnt fond to face Trish yet again with her being under Mundus wing....again....just reiterating something he had to deal in the past but this time she couldnt be changed over

Also mainline Mundus didnt make demons above him, as seen with Nightmare which was his most powerful, so why would VM have a Trish of this level of power

Its more logical to call it outlierish or Dante had a hard time more precisely in a state of mind rather then physicals

I think it's either a big outlier or it's become much more powerful via the Nexus DE amp, as Tanin said. Even though it seems strange that neither Dante nor the narrative specified that Dante passively absorbed the energy of the Demon World compared to the other demons present with him.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I think it's either a big outlier or it's become much more powerful via the Nexus DE amp, as Tanin said. Even though it seems strange that neither Dante nor the narrative specified that Dante passively absorbed the energy of the Demon World compared to the other demons present with him.

Tbf Dante growing stronger over time between each new series isnt precisely stated either, you are shown on screen

Could also be the fact the writers of the novel dont think of details like Dante growing stronger over time as much, usually in fiction you can tell without a claim of "yeah they grew stronger" is the case from their actions and all that