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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dalesean027
- Start date
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"The princess who holds the power of light... That mysterious power is said to flow in the veins of every royal lady in your family ever since that day when it was gifted to your people"
Joking aside, wouldn't this really imply Zeldas share similar light force tho? Like, we could potentially scale all Zeldas to each other.
Joking aside, wouldn't this really imply Zeldas share similar light force tho? Like, we could potentially scale all Zeldas to each other.
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Sameee LMAO. Underrated game.
Dust_Collector
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Light Force doesn't matter since that's not Hylias power source, it's something in all living things wheras Hylias power's is specifically something only for her and her bloodline. Can't scale all Zelda's to each other because they're not all tapping into the same amount of their sacred power, the Zelda from the first game wouldn't scale to Spirit Tracks Zelda just because they both share the same sacred power, one actively tapped into a large sum of it and the other... didn't really do anything. Plus some Zeldas get external amps (OOT Zelda, TP Zelda, so on and so forth).
Dust_Collector
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uhhhh not gonna order them in strength since I can't be bothered (TOTK Zelda is number 1 tho):
- Ocarina of Time
- Twilight Princess
- Spirit Tracks
- Tears of the Kingdom
- Echoes of Wisdom
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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1. Hyrule Warriors Zelda
2. Hyrule Warriors Toon Zelda
3. Hyrule Warriors Tetra
4. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity Zelda
5. Phantom Zelda
Dust_Collector
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Also cool muddle bud lore from kohgas voice memories in TOTK we can use, they made him hallunicate that some bokoblins were Yiga clan members.
I'd love to say this is an obvious joke but this is you we're talking about so good chance it's actually serious.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, how dare I remember Hyrule Warriors exists and is one of the only games with things that genuinely scale to the Triforce.
Dust_Collector
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Yeah big doubts on genuine Triforce scaling for them lmao (I dunno if Ganon even taps into the things full power. His best feat with the full thing is warping a castle with statements he will eventually start warping more of Hyrule field lmao). And even then why would AOC Zelda be in the top 5 but not TOTK Zelda? She's objectively way stronger in the latter game.
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Ahem.
Rauru/Ruto/Darunia/Saria/Impa/Naboru a bit wacky. At the very least their innate magical power is above Vaati even if they can't use it properly (like I doubt Ruto can output that shit offensively tbh), Impa 100% scales tho due to Bongo Bongo, Darunia I'd also say might have a case given he can yield the Megaton Hammer+Medallion so he has that innate power but also def knows how to fight and has a weapon in that tiering? He's COOL so I'll include him. Zelda herself pretty explicitly (Magic/offense scales to Ganon, endured being ragdolled by Bongo). The rest vague if they know how to fight with said power so I'll ignore them even if technically they do in fact upscale. Assuming EoW Vovagia = OOT Volvagia. If we exclude fringe cases (WW bosses for example), duplicates (like Ganon in differing states), and so forth, we get an at minimum listing of (Not in order mind you)-
If you're lucky Vaati cracks top 100, but he still has to contend with Bellum, Ocean King, Fairy Queen, for the lower spots, and hell maybe even Byrne, Onox, and Veran. The last two I'm def unsure of tho, he might beat them out I legit forget.
When your claim to fame is being a sex offender and the local flora start shit talking you, ya gotta pack it up chat, just how it be I fear. Why are you making absolutely not ok accusations or implicatory claims like that, goddamn you lucky I like Archer or I'd be taking that shit personally
Rauru/Ruto/Darunia/Saria/Impa/Naboru a bit wacky. At the very least their innate magical power is above Vaati even if they can't use it properly (like I doubt Ruto can output that shit offensively tbh), Impa 100% scales tho due to Bongo Bongo, Darunia I'd also say might have a case given he can yield the Megaton Hammer+Medallion so he has that innate power but also def knows how to fight and has a weapon in that tiering? He's COOL so I'll include him. Zelda herself pretty explicitly (Magic/offense scales to Ganon, endured being ragdolled by Bongo). The rest vague if they know how to fight with said power so I'll ignore them even if technically they do in fact upscale. Assuming EoW Vovagia = OOT Volvagia. If we exclude fringe cases (WW bosses for example), duplicates (like Ganon in differing states), and so forth, we get an at minimum listing of (Not in order mind you)-
- Hylia
- Ghirahim
- Bilocyte
- Demise
- Phantom Ganon (OoT)
- Volvagia
- Dark Link
- Morpha
- Bongo Bongo
- Koume
- Koutake
- Twinrova
- Ganondorf (with ToP)
- Rauru
- Darunia
- Impa
- Naboru
- Zelda/Sheik (OoT)
- Twinmold
- Giant 1
- Giant 2
- Giant 3
- Giant 4
- Skull Kid (with Majora)
- Majora
- Fierce Deity
- Molgera
- Jalhalla
- Ganondorf (without ToP)
- Stallord
- Blizzeta
- Armogohma
- Argorok
- Zant
- Midna (with Fused Shadow/possibly without)
- Dark Interlopers
- Trident of Darkness Ganon
- Agahnim
- Helmasaur King
- Arrghus (Technically should take two spots)
- Mothula
- Blind the Thief
- Kholdstare
- Vitreous
- Trinexx
- Yuga
- Gemesaur King
- Knucklemaster
- Stalblind
- Zaganaga
- Dharkstare
- Grinexx
- Yuga Ganon
- Phantom Ganon (TOTK)
- Sidon (sage stone)
- Yunobo (sage stone)
- Riju (sage stone)
- Tulin (sage stone)
- Sonia (sage stone)
- idk gobon (sage stone)
- idk zora (sage stone)
- idk gerudo (sage stone)
- idk burb (sage stone)
- Rauru (TOTK)
- Mineru
- Zelda (TOTK)
- Ganondorf (TOTK)
- Gohma
- Skorchill
- Tekom (echo Zelda)
- Null (without ToP, excessively so with ToP)
- Din
- Nayru
- Farore
- Hero of Time
- Hero of Winds
- Hero of the Wild (TOTK timeframe)
- Hero of Minish (Minish Cap)
- Hero of Four Swords
- Hero of Four Swords Adventures
- Hero of Legend (ALttP/LA)
- ALBW Link
- Hero of Twilight
- Hero of Man
- Hero of the Sky
- Original Hero (Zelda 1/2)
- Hero of idk trains?
- Choochoo Zelda
- EoW Link
- EoW Zelda
- Oracle Link
- Ganon (Oracle)
- Zelda (Minish Cap)
- Malladus
- Zelda (Spirit Tracks)
- At LEAST one nut boy going by Dust's implications
- That old man in Kakariko in ALBW
- Eh **** it throw Cia in here too to round it off
- Lana
- That Link ig
- That Zelda ig
- That Ganon ig
If you're lucky Vaati cracks top 100, but he still has to contend with Bellum, Ocean King, Fairy Queen, for the lower spots, and hell maybe even Byrne, Onox, and Veran. The last two I'm def unsure of tho, he might beat them out I legit forget.
Bro, why are you getting riled up over VAATI and then bringing in actual morality and shit into it, I don't quite appreciate you calling me essentially psychotic and saying shit like "If you think so you all give very little importance to life, which is actually a super important human right", did you legitimately just type that out on a battle boarding forum in a zelda thread because people slander the freaky wizard dude?
When your claim to fame is being a sex offender and the local flora start shit talking you, ya gotta pack it up chat, just how it be I fear. Why are you making absolutely not ok accusations or implicatory claims like that, goddamn you lucky I like Archer or I'd be taking that shit personally
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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Holy shit the Hyrule Warriors cope.
“Uh yeah, Ganondorf may have had the entire Triforce, beat someone with the full Triforce even without it, and used the Triforce for a ******* ritual meant to give him power, but it was ackshually never stated he could tap into its power, therefore HW Zelda is weaker than a Zelda that could do nothing with her powers but open doors :/“
Even without any Triforce scaling at all, Zelda is still capable of killing Argoroks with her Lv. 1 weapon while she can get up to Lv. 4, each being magnitudes stronger than the last. HW Zelda slaughters any of the other Zeldas in the verse.
TotK Zelda is bottom tier fodder without becoming a dragon, which again barely helps. AoC Zelda is strong enough to shitstomp Calamity Ganon, which is stronger than most characters in the BotWverse including TotK Zelda.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Bro is actually blaming the victim for being made fun ofAhem.
Rauru/Ruto/Darunia/Saria/Impa/Naboru a bit wacky. At the very least their innate magical power is above Vaati even if they can't use it properly (like I doubt Ruto can output that shit offensively tbh), Impa 100% scales tho due to Bongo Bongo, Darunia I'd also say might have a case given he can yield the Megaton Hammer+Medallion so he has that innate power but also def knows how to fight and has a weapon in that tiering? He's COOL so I'll include him. Zelda herself pretty explicitly (Magic/offense scales to Ganon, endured being ragdolled by Bongo). The rest vague if they know how to fight with said power so I'll ignore them even if technically they do in fact upscale. Assuming EoW Vovagia = OOT Volvagia. If we exclude fringe cases (WW bosses for example), duplicates (like Ganon in differing states), and so forth, we get an at minimum listing of (Not in order mind you)-
- Hylia
- Ghirahim
- Bilocyte
- Demise
- Phantom Ganon (OoT)
- Volvagia
- Dark Link
- Morpha
- Bongo Bongo
- Koume
- Koutake
- Twinrova
- Ganondorf (with ToP)
- Rauru
- Darunia
- Impa
- Naboru
- Zelda/Sheik (OoT)
- Twinmold
- Giant 1
- Giant 2
- Giant 3
- Giant 4
- Skull Kid (with Majora)
- Majora
- Fierce Deity
- Molgera
- Jalhalla
- Ganondorf (without ToP)
- Stallord
- Blizzeta
- Armogohma
- Argorok
- Zant
- Midna (with Fused Shadow/possibly without)
- Dark Interlopers
- Trident of Darkness Ganon
- Agahnim
- Helmasaur King
- Arrghus (Technically should take two spots)
- Mothula
- Blind the Thief
- Kholdstare
- Vitreous
- Trinexx
- Yuga
- Gemesaur King
- Knucklemaster
- Stalblind
- Zaganaga
- Dharkstare
- Grinexx
- Yuga Ganon
- Phantom Ganon (TOTK)
- Sidon (sage stone)
- Yunobo (sage stone)
- Riju (sage stone)
- Tulin (sage stone)
- Sonia (sage stone)
- idk gobon (sage stone)
- idk zora (sage stone)
- idk gerudo (sage stone)
- idk burb (sage stone)
- Rauru (TOTK)
- Mineru
- Zelda (TOTK)
- Ganondorf (TOTK)
- Gohma
- Skorchill
- Tekom (echo Zelda)
- Null (without ToP, excessively so with ToP)
- Din
- Nayru
- Farore
- Hero of Time
- Hero of Winds
- Hero of the Wild (TOTK timeframe)
- Hero of Minish (Minish Cap)
- Hero of Four Swords
- Hero of Four Swords Adventures
- Hero of Legend (ALttP/LA)
- ALBW Link
- Hero of Twilight
- Hero of Man
- Hero of the Sky
- Original Hero (Zelda 1/2)
- Hero of idk trains?
- Choochoo Zelda
- EoW Link
- EoW Zelda
- Oracle Link
- Ganon (Oracle)
- Zelda (Minish Cap)
- Malladus
- Zelda (Spirit Tracks)
- At LEAST one nut boy going by Dust's implications
- That old man in Kakariko in ALBW
- Eh **** it throw Cia in here too to round it off
- Lana
- That Link ig
- That Zelda ig
- That Ganon ig
If you're lucky Vaati cracks top 100, but he still has to contend with Bellum, Ocean King, Fairy Queen, for the lower spots, and hell maybe even Byrne, Onox, and Veran. The last two I'm def unsure of tho, he might beat them out I legit forget.
Bro, why are you getting riled up over VAATI and then bringing in actual morality and shit into it, I don't quite appreciate you calling me essentially psychotic and saying shit like "If you think so you all give very little importance to life, which is actually a super important human right", did you legitimately just type that out on a battle boarding forum in a zelda thread because people slander the freaky wizard dude?
When your claim to fame is being a sex offender and the local flora start shit talking you, ya gotta pack it up chat, just how it be I fear. Why are you making absolutely not ok accusations or implicatory claims like that, goddamn you lucky I like Archer or I'd be taking that shit personally
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TOTK
EoW (with ToW, otherwise she's below OOT 100%, which ig would put her below TP too)
OOT
TP (I'd put OOT higher due to having actual combat training, skill, and actual dura feats due to getting punked by Bongo, basically why EoW is 2nd, they all scale to the same value, she just has more slop and utility pushing her above).
Ig Spirit Tracks given she actually fights and the rest don't.
That's the issue.
Yes which is what causes the issue, if he's already mauling it, why is he getting stronger with it.
Yes, you need to prove he can, goes for any verse with artifact yap actually.
In fact I'd argue Cia getting mauled by Ganon with it, yet him wanting it, means she wasn't tapping into it's full output, and if she wasn't, that means it's not automatic.
That or it's just widely inconsistent, either or.
Bro, you know we had to fight for Sealing War Ganon to scale to the full thing right? And only worked because he has a statement he basically does.
How is Argorok full triforce scaling
Scan please.
TOTK, probably EOW, at minimum.
Didn't she actively fight in a war while using her magic that outscales everyone actively? That's rhetorical.
Also, bro she's arguably stronger without becoming a dragon because she's actually cognizant, power wise they're not that different, both use the triforce as an infinite battery, even used it to nuke hordes of enemies and Calamity Ganon.
I don't even know what to say to this this is like saying Nappa is strong enough to shit stomp Raditz so he's stronger than Frieza.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Ganondorf being strong is the issue?
...Because he needed it to perform the ritual to become Ganon, remember?
Since your knowledge seems to only have gaps when HW is the topic, the other things are great proof that he can.
Or she didn't know about the ritual, didn't want to use it since her goal was Link, or it didn't apply to her.
Nice, defeating the Triforce by multiple degrees should work great.
...I JUST said it wasn't.
You know how weapon upgrades work in Hyrule Warriors.
Well, those are the strongest, so...
She did not.
Well, TotK Zelda loses to Calamity Ganon. She spent 10,100 years making the Master Sword (which contributed to only half Calamity Ganon’s death) barely any stronger at all and even with a Secret Stone she couldn’t match the guy who can be killed by that Master Sword even by swallowing it.
An early AoC Zelda can outright vaporize Blights with her powers and by endgame is >>> Calamity Ganon.
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Unironically yes, it creates a circular scaling loop.
And why did he need to do that with something he curbstomps?
Dude, that's literally wiki rules, you need to prove it, you're actively doing the opposite.
Ok so then why are you saying she scales to its full power then and thus Ganon stomping her with it is a feat?
You just gave excuses as to why Cia likely wouldn't scale to its full power despite having it, so there's that route gone, and for Ganon himself, you simply said he used it for a ritual, not consolidating its full power into his own, so that's an issue.
You need to prove they used its full power, there is no "maybe" here, it's wiki rules, applies to any verse.
Then why go on about it.
Yes, I do, it's like from literal lv0 to max level, the best you get is about a 6x buff, and that's just going by stats it actually doesn't quite translate 1:1 like that in gameplay, which mind you, this is also just gameplay stats. Shit be like saying Rampardos > Arceus because it has like 174 base attack or whatever vs 120.
This isn't magnitudes b definition, and this isn't a statement either, we don't do stat scaling unless sufficient evidence exists, so as I asked, scan? Like you made the claim it goes up by magnitudes so I'd like to see that.
Exactly my point?
Someone screencap this.
No she doesn't? BOTW Zelda managed to seal him for a century, before one shotting him?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Chat is it just me or does this dude have absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
This isn't true? Again? They literally say it boosts it dramatically?
She couldn't match the dude who was killed by the Master Sword she spent millennia empowering?
Yes and water is wet, and also doesn't change the fact that she stomps AoC Zelda by actual magnitudes? And I don't mean the hyperbolic "magnitudes" you used, I mean she's literally multiple one shots above her and is incomparable.
Like dude, this is a feat for Ganon, the Ganon who's also >>>>>>>>>> AoC Ganon.
What are you even going on about?
Blights are literally so goddamn weak they're not even in this conversation?
With her powers, you mean the same powers that TOTK Zelda has magnified numerous-fold who also has extensively more training with them?
Man, do you not know the difference between Calamity Ganon and Ganondorf? It's almost like you think the plot to TOTK ties into BOTW, and not actually TOTK, everything you just said is straight up wrong idk how you're conflating or mixing things up this badly but goddamn at least double check before you say things.
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I don't think so, think we're still in that process of calcing shit
If we cheat and say Volvagia is the same we can skip calcs for now and just cross scale, tho would def need to actually calc that shit eventually given that just gives a "close enough" as opposed to a "this is the actual value" type deal.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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Why?
I dunno, why does witchcraft in real life involve rituals with insects and frogs if humans can oneshot them?
You've yet to prove a single claim you've ever made so far. All I've alluded to is basic plot points or functions of the game.
Um what? I was listing off reasons why she might reasonably have not performed the same ritual as Ganondorf did to become Ganon. Hyrule Warriors has a million ways to scale to the Triforce without scaling to literally an incomplete underleveled base HW Ganondorf.
I did not, besides even if the LoZ powerscaler coomers coped hard enough to assume that Cia was actually just not using the Triforce against someone she was literally afraid of and wanted to kill, by the end of the game Link was literally tearing pieces off Full Triforce Ganon even without the Master Sword. With the Master Sword, Link unlocks Evil's Bane and Exorcism in the postgame, making it even stronger than a Lv. 4 weapon. We scale to the Triforce multiple times over.
And you need to prove that both of them didn't have the full power of the Triforce despite owning it.
I know you're trying to avoid admitting you made a mistake, but literally on the same comment you're trying to clown on I said it was even without Triforce scaling altogether; no matter how much sense it made.
Not even the point I was making. If I wanted to say that, I would have said that Zelda gets ~7x stronger through weapons. Even the weakest weapon of the tier is stronger than the strongest weapon of the previous tier. That's how star levels work.
...So why are they the minimum?
Link literally already killed him, and then Zelda stole his kill by sealing him. I forgot how bad that scene was.
Did you seriously forget about the Divine Beasts?
You're right, it actually gets weaker since it doesn't have the BotW DLC buffs anymore.
"Zelda being fodder compared to the Master Sword is actually a feat for Ganondorf bro"
Well, Calamity Ganon is basically 4 Blights combined together, so...
You'll have to wait for Tears of Nintendo's Fourth Try at the BotW Verse (and that's if it fits in canon) to prove that. TotK Zelda's light powers were canonically bitchmade even after she underwent Dragonification.
Well Ganondorf doesn't show up in AoC, so no. I don't think TotK ties into BotW, other than what was necessary to undo everything the world of BotW built.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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You can make your own Zelda profiles in the meantime! Just because we're working on stuff doesn't mean you need to wait for us.
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Bro that's the thing, I am not doing this over Vaati, but you all started making fun of me / get enraged because I liked his design. He is an offender, he is bad, I got it, I just like his concept and design and I just added that wanting me to dislike him because of moralism wouldn't be different from calling people out for liking Ganondorf who wanted to exterminate an immeasurable number to rebuild his ideal reign..
Bro, why are you getting riled up over VAATI and then bringing in actual morality and shit into it, I don't quite appreciate you calling me essentially psychotic and saying shit like "If you think so you all give very little importance to life, which is actually a super important human right", did you legitimately just type that out on a battle boarding forum in a zelda thread because people slander the freaky wizard dude?
When your claim to fame is being a sex offender and the local flora start shit talking you, ya gotta pack it up chat, just how it be I fear. Why are you making absolutely not ok accusations or implicatory claims like that, goddamn you lucky I like Archer or I'd be taking that shit personally
And It would be dumb, but so it is treating people as red flags if they like Vaati, but I think this happens when you start to take this bad actions thinking it in irl terms so you are disgusted (makes sense), but then if you focus on the same way on Ganondorf actions you should as well and if it doesn't happen, so moralism in the topic is dumb, let people comment positively on Vaati, like bro you are hating on his design, legit top.
Dust_Collector
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It's pretty clear Sean has never actually played or had an actual look into any Zelda game because what the **** are these arguments?
Also stop with the BOTW verse bullshit nobody, including Nintendo themselves agree with you stop acting like you're the authority on what is and isn't canon. Her light powers are extremely potent, it allows her to withstand direct magic attacks from the Demon Dragon during the final boss fight (They hurt her but don't kill her).
Like the secret stones made people weaker than Zelda strong enough to deflect gloom attacks that shattered a full powered Master Sword, Ganondorf in his weakened state can move the moon around to his hearts content whenever he pleases but doesn't feel confident he can handle fighting the sages whereas Calamity Ganon with amps in AOC just vaguely scales above baseline city level attacks, I dunno what to say other than actually look into the games you're gonna argue about ffs.
Because it's makes the chain Full Triforce >> Triforce of Power >> Ganondorf >> Full Triforce. We know the full Triforce itself is superior to Ganondorf, I even posted scans the last time you claimed he scaled to the full thing that puts even his full power beneath the piece of power let alone the full thing. Which you igored to try and make a snarky comeback.
You're not a serious person.
You argued several times weakened base Ganondorf scales to the full Triforce because he beat Cia who was in possession of it. He simply said that her being beaten is proof she wasn't empowered by the thing given the game makes it clear the Triforce >> Ganondorf. Meanwhile you're not bringing up anything that suggests he was using it's full power, like Chariot said we don't scale to artifacts with explict proof someone is using their full power. Nothing you'd said does that.
The fact Ganondorf needed to do a ritual to get most of his newfound power from the Triforce means that Cia would absouletly not be able to tap into it's full power during that moment. Hell in that scene we're shown she actively taps into the Triforce of Power to get rid of him but with the full Triforce she just... sticks it in her pocket or something. Again, post proof Ganondorf had used 100% or hell even 10% of the complete Triforce's power.
That's not how it works. You're the one claiming they scale to it's full power, it's on you to prove it. Just owning it isn't enough to justify it.
Why did you bring up Argorok at all then? Even assuming the Argoroks in this game are as strong as their canon counterparts (Don't ******* try the whole "it's literally the exact same characters" gimmick again I already explained how that doesn't work) they scale way below what several Zelda's scale to.
He only killed him with her powers. He can't harm Dark Beast Ganon with literally anything but Zelda can create weak points and make Ganon grunt in pain, and the bow of light is created by her power and it's the only weapon Link has that can harm said weak points besides beams from a full powered (By BOTW standards) Master Sword. She's weakened during all of this too.
You said "She spent 10,100 years making the Master Sword (which contributed to only half Calamity Ganon’s death)". Like you're just getting basic facts wrong lmao (And it's not the first time)
You def get all your knowledge on Zelda games from watching tiktok clips or something there's no way you're making arguments like this. The Master Sword didn't get any real buffs in the DLC for BOTW it just got access to it's full power even when not around evil beings that's it. So it would've been at the same level of strength when weakened mummified Ganondorf shattered it like it was a twig, and she empowered it to the point his full power threw a hissy fit after Link beat his ass. It's objectively >>>>> above anything in BOTW.
Calamity Ganon even in a weakened state can withstand an attack 4 times greater than what can nearly one shot a single blight Ganon.
Also stop with the BOTW verse bullshit nobody, including Nintendo themselves agree with you stop acting like you're the authority on what is and isn't canon. Her light powers are extremely potent, it allows her to withstand direct magic attacks from the Demon Dragon during the final boss fight (They hurt her but don't kill her).
Like the secret stones made people weaker than Zelda strong enough to deflect gloom attacks that shattered a full powered Master Sword, Ganondorf in his weakened state can move the moon around to his hearts content whenever he pleases but doesn't feel confident he can handle fighting the sages whereas Calamity Ganon with amps in AOC just vaguely scales above baseline city level attacks, I dunno what to say other than actually look into the games you're gonna argue about ffs.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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He does this to pretty much anyone who doesn't outright condemn Vaati's existence.
Dust_Collector
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Nobody treated liking him as genuine red flags we're just countering the praise with the usual slander we give him it wasn't so serious you needed to make a weird ass comment about how we may not "give importance to life" that's a kind ****** up thing to suggest in response to Vaati slander of all things.
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Bruh it was not a serious "accusation", I don't genuinely believe that sh**.
It's just a counter argument using same moral heaviness judgment, I don't really care about it, it's just that you clearly suggested that liking Vaati was bad because of his actions, that one should consider it to dislike him, you know he is a creep you can't like his character etc.
Then, I am also overall annoyed by online community treating actions similar to Vaati as worse than g word. I don't seriously believe that you all don't give a damn about life, but if u all think that committing a g word is less worse than doing what Vaati did then it's weird to my own set of morals. It's an if tho, but if you all slander Vaati for that and don't care about Ganondorf that's what someone can get. Like why picking it over the other.
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You've been explained this a dozen times by multiple time. You know why, stop asking.
I dunno because people can be silly given that's not an actual thing?
Also, doesn't this prove my point? Those rituals don't actually do anything to begin with
What? Dude you made the claim, burden of proof is on you, you've been here long enough to know this. Why do I have to prove YOUR claim.
And by doing so gave reasons why she might not just scale at all. Not that it matters, what matters is what's actually stated in context not what you claim, so do us both a favor and post the scans actually stating what's been asked.
Ok, what are they? Post citations.
You did, even if that wasn't your intent.
Because how do we even know if she knows how to tap or harness it all? You said yourself that she might just know the ritual, or this or that, why would she suddenly know how? And it's not like it'd make sense, if she got punked by Ganon who isn't even as strong as ToP by itself, how in the world is he beating ToP+the other two which = far greater than the sum of its parts by literal infinity.
Bro I almost got crucified for saying goon in a slang-like way, I don't think you wanna be saying that here regardless of the intent behind it.
That is objectively not true, he uses the Master Sword explicitly, that's like half the plot, and he's show yielding it both before, AND after in the cutscenes, drawn too so he was def using it. You need to stop conflating free play with what actually happens in story it's getting tiresome.
No, you do not.
In the actual canon of the game Link uses the Master Sword to fight, defeat, and seal Ganon, we know this because not only does the game tell us that, they show us that.
And in lore, there IS no "postgame" with the MS, they plug the Master Sword back into the pedestal, seal Ganon, and walk away and the time witch goes "lmao happily ever after" or something.
Again, stop conflating freeplay with canon, this is directly shown and stated to us in cutscenes once again.
And... That isn't how it works? Like you need to actually prove they're using it all, you've yet to, you also need to prove why it isn't a hilarious outlier or blatant contradictory circular scaling for it to ultimately scale above itself. You've also yet to do so.
No, I don't. Burden of proof is on you, and that's just how this wiki works. Whether it's something like Kirby (which had a slew of downgrades because of it fyi, most involving the mirror shards and crown iirc), FF, or, ya know, Zelda, you need to prove they actually use the thing's full power.
I don't even know why this needs to be explained to you, you've been here long enough to know that's how this wiki works, and Zelda isn't exempt, hell Ganon with the full Triforce was something that literally had to be proven with an actual statement, otherwise his ass was getting downgraded, this isn't news.
It's more like why are you going on about completely pointless topics to your very own premise.
No, the Triforce scaling doesn't make sense, I'm not sure why you're still going on about it in the big 25 either, like how in the world do you not see the blatant circular ad infinitum under your own logic.
Well that's the absolute best you can get from it given quite literally nothing else exists in regards to figuring out a power gap in a quantifiable way.
You said magnitudes. Do not backpedal.
"That's how star levels work", ok scan? (Actually I'm not even sure if it's linear like that but that's beside the point, I'll check later).
And, being stronger than the previous one means what exactly? being 1% stronger is still being stronger, is lv0 to lv4 a mere 4% increase? Maybe it is, or maybe it's 100% or who knows, you need proof dude.
You were asked to cite your claims, I want to see a statement or scan saying they're magnitudes stronger than the prior form.
As in, at bare minimum, they curb the hell out of your list. It's the minimum because there might be a few others too.
Ok stop. There's no way this isn't on purpose.
Link defeated him. This did not kill him, they say it did not kill him, he was reforming and going to continue the fight. Zelda comes out, actually kills him mind you, not seal, not anything of that sort, but straight up obliterated it.
So not only are you wrong on Link having killed him, which makes no damn sense because if Link killed it, Zelda wouldn't have been able to, in your own words, "seal it", as it'd have been dead but she didn't even seal it, she blew it to hell.
Do us both a favor and actually fact check basic, easily readily available scenes, you can find in a second, before stating actual non-debatable blatant falsehoods.
Case in point.
What the ACTUAL hell are you talking about? Like is it actually so bad you don't even know the difference between BOTW and TOTK? Have you even played them? I thought you did and you just didn't like them but there's no way at this point, this isn't even the sort of mistake you just forget or misremember, it's the entire premises being swapped.
Ignoring the fact those were permanent buffs to it, but hey, that's something you can post a scan of too, where do they say the Master Sword weakens? The buffs obviously last, they don't go away once you leave the DLC area, they stay forever.
I was talking about the "these magic stones drastically increase your power" in response to you saying "it didn't really increase her power", which is to say, no dude, you're just straight up wrong and arguing blatant statements once again.
When the Master Sword is as strong as it is due to her power granted over millennia? Hell yeah it is.
Yeah, so? I pray to God you don't need to be explained the difference between Calamity Ganon and Ganondorf, or maybe you do given you keep saying things like the 10000y dragon holy buff was used to slay Calamity Ganon and Blights and all this other wild stuff.
It's legitimately one of the key plot points, what are we doing chat? Have we actually lost the plot this bad?
Only if you ignore the fact the exact opposite was stated?
But cool, "canonically", if that's the case surely there's evidence to that claim no? Perhaps a statement? I'd like to see that if you wouldn't mind.
Yes, instead they fight the equivalent of a paper cut he got.
So let's see
Direct quotes from you btw don't attempt to backpedal
TOTK Zelda never fought Calamity Ganon, she did in BOTW though, and she won that fight so not sure what you're talking about.
This is straight up sheer ignorance. She spent millennia healing and empowering the Master Sword, which contributed to the entirety of Ganondorf's death. The Master Sword used to fight Calamity Ganon had absolutely nothing to do with her and was moreover so much weaker than the sword she crafted, that Ganondorf in his weakest state one shot it into pieces.
Which is to say, not only are you wrong, not only are you literally mixing basic plot together making any claim you have subject to extreme scrutiny or outright ignoring, but even further, based on what actually occurs, the Master Sword that's able to slay the things you're gassing up right now, is actual complete fodder to even the weakest Ganondorf in TOTK, which, funnily enough, is weaker than TOTK Zelda with the magic stone, and the light dragon, and is incomparable to the Master Sword that took over 10,000 years to make. You would know this if you like, idk, I'd say play the game but I don't think you even need to do that, legit just read the plot synopsis and you'd know this.
You said this, it is wrong, she's straight up stated drastically stronger, they all are even.
Yes the Master Sword incomparably greater than the Master Sword used to either fend off or kill the things you're claiming she's weaker than, powered by her own power mind you.
Yes because that boosts power even further, which also ties back into you saying the light dragon isn't exactly that either relative to her base state.
This also acts as a feat for said Master Sword, given it could kill him when he did that, which acts as a feat for her given she empowered it.
Nobody was doing that, making fun of Vaati, is not making fun of you.
There is a pretty clear cut difference.
I'm not going to comment on that "enraged" thing because that's actually asinine, we were talking about Vaati, who has been memed on constantly in this very thread. Saying "nah dude he can't ever scale", assuming that's what you think was being volatile given your "calm down" responses afterward seem to indicate you took that personally, I'm not actually sure but you seemed to start after that post so I'm just deducing it as such, was literally just me saying he literally can't, dude's fodder af, there was nothing else to it, idk what else you wanted me to say, he can't scale, he literally can't ever be number 1 even with that feat, and I said why. I would like to remind you we're on VSBW where powerscaling is one of the main points.
Bro it's more like he's a fraud and is canonically known as a fraud.
Ganon is an asshole sure, but he isn't made fun of IN game for being pathetic. Vaati is.
Vaati's legit actual claim to fame is being a sex offender, and then getting sidelined by the weakest Ganon to where even the weakest things in the game start laughing at him. Idk what you want me to say here, he's made for bullying
Don't blame me for that, blame Nintendo.
I would really like to know where you're getting this from, it seems to me you took the usual funny meme Vaati slander, and then took that as a personal attack when NOBODY was talking about you to begin with. Kind of feels like something was lost in translation here because you're kind of going off about stuff that was never actually said.
Nah bro if he was cool it'd be ok because he's cool
I like dudes like Frieza, Hisoka, Bondrewd, Femto, whatever, Vaati is just canonically a meme in universe and you for some reason took that personally.
Well yeah because he isn't a joke?
I don't think I ever said I hated his design
But like, YOU brought moralism into it, what tf are you doing man? You legit can't be saying "if you dont hate this dude too you hate the sanctity of life" or something.
I can't believe we've hit a point that slandering Vaati is now FROWNED upon, this ain't my zelda chat...
I'm pretty sure this is the first time a single person in the history of the world has actually took Vaati slander personally. So not sure how there could even be a sample size for it to be "anyone".
Also I'm not even the main slanderer, Dust started the Vaati slander gag
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Proof of any of that? Why would the Triforce of Power be above Ganondorf at all, considering Lana with the ToP could never defeat Ganondorf even with the Hylian Army backing her?
And you're all talk.
The Triforce has literally been destroyed before, like when Lorule's Elders destroyed their Triforce and when Zelda broke apart the Triforce of Wisdom in the first game. Being beaten is not proof that she was retroactively not using its power.
Holy shit all you 2025 Zelda debaters can do is split hairs. He didn't need the ritual to get power from the Triforce, he needed it to transform into Ganon.
It was proof before Chariot started wanting HW to cap at like Tier 6 iirc.
Maybe you should read what I was ******* talking about instead of trying to maintain appearances by acting incredulous at everything I say. This site already treats them that way.
No, he killed him with the Divine Beast attacks and the Master Sword. Sounds like some pretty bad weak points. A song did a better job in Spirit Tracks.
Oh, that was Chariot's weird sentence splicing. I said she made it barely any stronger at all.
Getting access to its full power sounds like a buff.
Proof?
Nintendo doesn't think it's canon either. They keep it separate from everything else in the official timeline.
They are all stronger than Zelda except Tulin (whose Great Eagle Bow was considered a stronger boost than his Secret Stone), they were all wielding their signature weapons which are immune to Gloom, and Ganondorf was running out of power at the time. AoC Zelda (and her weapon tiers just like normal HW) scale colossally beyond those signature weapons.
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Ya know you really aren't helping your point when the game also straight up says he's weaker than it.
Which means
1. Lana can't tap into its full power (would kind of make sense tbh, she isn't exactly "might makes right" nor holds power as the most important virtue)
2. Game legit doesn't give a shit about consistency and contradicts itself constantly (this might also make sense).
Better to talk and be right then uh, whatever it is you're doing.
Uh, yeah it has, so?
The thing could be as fragile as glass, it doesn't change the fact you need to prove your claim. And also no, the triforce ITSELF being damaged, is not the same as it amping the host's characteristics and power by literal infinity, rendering them effective immune to basically everything ever. Forcing them to be sealed away such as with Ganon in the war.
Ok so even worse, we have Cia who we dont know if she was using it right, who got mauled by Ganon, who is weaker than the ToP, who is comparable to characters who go on to defeat beast Ganon, who according to you just did a ritual. Ain't looking to good chat.
I want it to cap wherever the feats, statements and lore within a fair and quite reasonable analysis puts it at.
Which whether that's 8-C or 1-C idc, it depends on what's actually proven and consistent.
I don't think arguing "this site" treats them the same way for a profile older than half the wiki's userbase when you won't even abide concurrent rules like proving the artifact scaling.
Jesus christ, he's talking about the actual final boss, ya know, the giant demon boar you fight in hyrule field?
I wish you DID say the other thing because that's somehow even worse of a take.
How is "this thing is dogass, straight up exploded" to upscaling dudes who can slice through the same attack that shattered it, while it, itself, can deflect said attack no problem now, with direct statements glazing how much stronger it is, "barely any stronger", like usually it's statements that prove you wrong but in this case even basic A>B>C direct feats dictate that fact.
"We cut your arms off, but we're giving them back"
"Wow what a nice buff"
To what? 4x attacks that one shot? The actual cutscene where he gets hit dude, they fuse into one beam.
Them deflecting attacks that broke the MS? We've argued this scene with you before extensively, it's when they show up in Hyrule Castle, you know this.
Light dragon withstanding attacks? I feel like this is on the profiles actually but it's def been posted here before, if need be I'll go clip the damn thing myself but you should know this given it happens constantly in the final phase.
Didn't I give you a direct statement from Eiji like just the other day where he says of course it's canon and part of the timeline, and even says "But I understand wat you're asking is WHERE" and then he says it's after everything, which coincides with the masterworks saying botw takes place so far after every game it's basically reconvenes and the past stuff is so far back it's now "time out of mind".
Why we just makin stuff up now chat?
They actually aren't inherently, nothing ever says that and we know gloom can corrode the very things that make them up.
No he wasn't? He wasn't even doing anything, he was chilling at full power beneath the castle, his phantoms don't effect his power, we KNOW this for a fact.
Scan right now citing your claim tho.
Me when Lynel Club >>> MS (the lil number says it higher even tho everything else including direct statements say MS is strongest).
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I like when the game said Cia is the one who turned Midna into an imp and then later showed she was already an imp before Cia even knew she existed.
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Damn I can't believe Ganon didn't need a ritual this whole time and he could've just turned into Ganon anyway, that's crazyI dunno because people can be silly given that's not an actual thing?
Also, doesn't this prove my point? Those rituals don't actually do anything to begin with
I never made your claims. Quite the opposite.
"She didn't do the ritual to specifically turn Ganondorf into Ganon? Damn I can't believe she literally doesn't have any of the power of the Triforce at all."
Alright, I'll list off a few ways the cast can scale to at least 1 piece of the Triforce, other than what I've already said.
- It was explicitly stated that ToP Lana could never defeat base Ganondorf even with the entire Hylian Army backing her.
- HW Link literally killed Cia while she had the Triforce of Power.
- The Guardian of Time's job is to maintain the balance of the full Triforce, thus it is likely that she is capable of affecting the Triforce with her powers (though this one is questionable). Her halves, Lana and Cia, replace her after the Saga of the Great Sea by working together.
- A Master Swordless Link, Zelda, and the Wind Waker reps together with base weapons were able to defeat a, particularly massive, Wind Waker Phantom Ganon that had the Triforce of Power and had also absorbed all of Cia's power, and also his army at the same time, being a Hyrule Warriors game.
...Because that's never remotely been required? You yourself were ready to give Null everything the Triforce of Power ever grants just for having it.
Link tears Ganon's tail off with the Hookshot
Link breaks Ganon's horn with the Boomerang
Link shatters Ganon's gauntlet with the Bombs
Link shatters Ganon's, like, different horn with the Bow
"Bro stop using Free Play"
How Link kills Ganon literally doesn't matter.
Erm you mean Adventure Mode, which is a loose canon.
Bro is trying ANYTHING to prevent 3-A Hyrule Warriors
Genuinely why the **** do you think there needs to be all this proof they can use the maximum power of even a piece of the Triforce? Most versions of Ganondorf in fiction aren't stated to be these masters of their Triforce piece or whatever yet they just get everything. Not sure why you're constantly begging for scans considering 99% of scenes in Zelda involving getting a Triforce piece you're supposed to just know everything about what they're getting so characters aren't gonna be like, "OMG HE CAN USE THE MAXIMUM POWER OF THE TRIFORCE!!!!!!" so for 99.99% of characters that have held part of the Triforce such a statement doesn't exist.
Calmest Chariot response when I say anything about scaling to the Triforce:
Yeah, that is magnitudes.
YOU LITERALLY JUST TOLD ME YOU ALREADY KNEW HOW THE WEAPON SYSTEM WORKS.
Ignoring TotK whatever and Triforce scaling, what on God's green Earth could EoW Zelda do to HW Zelda? Make an enemy that HW Zelda could oneshot by flicking it? Create a sword weaker than HW Zelda's weakest created swords? Try desperately to avoid being Light Arrowed into the Moon?
I did. That's why I know what happened.
Bro forgot the Divine Beasts did half Calamity Ganon's health
When the Master Sword shattered to pieces? Remember? Gloom?
And it's not very strong.
Of course not, since I didn't even mention Ganondorf there.
AoC was also based on key plot points in BoTW.
Because God knows you won't accept gameplay.
That's Gloom, Malice is his rage.
I didn't say she did in-universe, though she only """"""won"""""" because Link already killed it.
Um, no? The Master Sword even after Zelda's tiny amp is far from Link's strongest weapon and he can use way stronger to fight Ganondorf. You don't even need to have the Master Sword in your inventory to beat Ganondorf. You can even use the same weapons to kill Ganondorf that you did to kill Calamity Ganon.
Like they said about the Secret Stones?
Correct.
"Damn I can't believe the Master Sword killed Ganondorf after Zelda gave it a 1% boost! Zelda must scale directly to Ganondorf!"
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Seems like there was a misunderstanding, could be because of a bias of mine when I interact online, could be because of English and several reasons. But I apologize to both of you Chariot and Dust, I took classic character slander of some sort of more serious implications.
Still I want Vaati comeback tho
Still I want Vaati comeback tho
Dust_Collector
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It's all good brother
He never said you made his claims, he's asking you to prove YOUR claims. You're the one saying these characters are using the full power of the complete Triforce, burden's on you to prove it in the first place, not for us to disprove it.
She visibly pulls out the Triforce of Power and channels it's power when she banished Ganon's ass to who knows where, with the full Triforce she just tucked it away and bull rushed him. Like if they go through the effort of showing her actively using the Triforce of Power they could've done the same for the full Triforce or even had a statement in the narration sections saying if the intent is that she was empowered by 100% of it's power.
- Is Lana actively empowering herself with the ToP in that mission or just holding onto it?
- Link has the ToC when doing that so doesn't mean much for base Ganondorf who is stated to be inferior to said version of Link even when back at his full power, which is why he went after the ToP first to increase his power
- This is just pure headcannon based on her watching over "the balace" of the Triforce. Rauru in OOT watches over the sacred realm with the goal of protecting the Triforce, gonna say his magic can likely affect the Triforce too?
- Phantom Ganon was explictly too powerful for them to fight, the whole mission leading up to his boss fight is about using the power of the sages to weaken him first
We don't just give various versions of Ganondorf scaling to the ToP just for having it, ironically we scale the ToP to him. It's rating comes from feats Ganondorf himself performs, and in cases like with his beast form we have statements explictly saying he pushes the ToP to it's limits. Hell the ToC is a wonderful example of how getting a piece doesn't auto grant it's full strength since the power boost it grants depends on the game too, TP Link explictly is fodder to Zant at the start of the game despite having the ToC, yet in ALBW the ToC is treated as comparable to ToP.
How is it magnitudes? We have no canon statements about how much stronger each weapon is compared to the last, the LV-4 Weapons could be 1.9% stronger for all we know. In game damage numbers don't mean much.
She can just beat the shit outta her. EOW Zelda kinda strong, honestly might even speed blitz HW Zelda I don't think there's any speed feats in the game comparable to the beamos stuff in the main games, I know beamos are in the game but their lasers are really, really fast compared to the characters.
I don't think you do know what happened.
Why are you so focused on the Calamity Ganon portion of the fight, all the arguments for Zelda's power comes from shit like the Dark Beast Ganon fight.
What point are you even making here? The Gloom shattered the Master Sword therefore... what? The Secret Stones aren't significant amps?
Why are you so determined to just ignore the plot of the game? The Master Sword is only weapon powerful enough to kill the Demon Dragon, hell lore wise it's stated to be the only weapon than can even damage it, the scaling chain of which goes:
Zelda Empowered Master Sword>Demon Dragon >> Demon King Ganondorf (Second Form) >> Demon King Ganondorf >> Mummy Ganondorf >> Mummy Ganondorf (Start of the game) >>>>> BOTW Master Sword. The whole plot of the game is that the Master Sword, one of the main weapons that defeated Calamity Ganon multiple times, was complete fodder to Ganondorf even at this weakest, so Zelda empowers it and it gets strong enough to make Full Power Crenando babyrage when Link beats his ass with it and then his even stronger dragon form goes off like a ******* nuke because the Master Sword hit him more times than he could handle.
Yeah the shitty left over rage that leaked from his powerless corpse and not his actual magical power. Like Malice is just the leftover energy of his corpse after Rauru drained it of his main magical energy, Calamity Ganon is just the fumes of a dead Ganondorf it's not that impressive that AOC characters can beat him when compared to TOTK sages being at strong enough to remain consious from a charged up shockwave attack from the real Ganon's full power. Same attack would ******* remove AOC Link and Zelda from existence.
She went directly to Nando at the end of the Great Calamity and kept single handily stopped him from going further, he only started regenering a new body because he was winning the war of attrition, her power started weakening which is the only reason he eventually escaped to fight Link. Plus like mentioned earlier, it's her power that stuns and harms Dark Beast Ganon (Which is Calamity Ganon at full power and fully restored, none of the Divine Beasts help out with this one), it's her power that allows the Light Arrows to harm him, said Light Arrows are also made from her power, and she keeps Ganon stuck in Hyrule Field with a barrier of light he cannot bypass.
Zelda Empowered Master Sword>Demon Dragon >> Demon King Ganondorf (Second Form) >> Demon King Ganondorf >> Mummy Ganondorf >> Mummy Ganondorf (Start of the game) >>>>> BOTW Master Sword just to bring it up AGAIN (And this isn't going into the feats and tiering, Calamity Ganon's best scaling is to city level weapons that make him scream in pain, Zelda amped Master Sword kills a dude that can casually move the moon at mach 3,000 or whatever)
Canonically it is the Master Sword that is used to fight Ganondorf, hell the whole plot of the game is that Link stands no chance against his full power without the newly empowered Master Sword, using other weapons is game mechcanics and said weapons being stronger is also game mechanics since the lore goes out of it's way to establish it's the only thing that can even tickle the Demon Dragon. Like I have no idea how someone has so little knowledge and understanding of a story so incredibly simple and straight forward to come out of it thinking Full Power Ganondorf is not much stronger than Calamity Ganon.
Yeah? Exactly like they said about the secret stones. What point are you even trying to make.
Word of advise Sean. Actually play and do research in the series when making arguments for them because you are just missing or ignoring the most in your face story beats on a constant basis for multiple games in the franchise.
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And why's that matter? Your claim is that Ganon scales, upscales even, the full triforce even, a mere ritual for an arbitrary power boost(?) is not proof of your claims of consolidating its full essence to add to his own.
I asked you to prove a thing, you said nuh uh you prove it, then turned around and acting as if I said anything at all. If you actually are not capable of following your own conversation, actually stop replying it's tiresome.
Every point you have would also apply to whether or not she can use it at peak capacity too. It's not a selective thing, especially when you have to prove she used it all to begin with.
Are you for real? Nobody cares about a single piece, you keep claiming they scale to the ENTIRE THING. I want proof, actual statements, straight up not debatable scans saying yeah they 100% scale to the whole thing. You know damn well that's what this conversation is about, don't try to backpedal to things nobody asked about.
Buuut.....
Also yeah Lana is def not using ToP at full capacity, especially given when Ganon gets it right after he explicitly gets roided out. Which makes sense, given Lana doesn't have power as her main virtue, while Ganon does.
Second one you screwed up the link dude, but Link also has the ToC no?
Third one is literally nothing, the king of hyrule guards keys to the sacred realm too, the great deku tree guards the spiritual stone, temple bosses guard various things, whatever, you get it, don't mean they know how to use it, like is Rauru or Impa using the full triforce or [REDACTED] is in the shadow temple?
In fact, her job is to guard it, not use or exploit it, why would she be capable?
Also thinking on it, isn't she a deity? Deity's aren't allowed to use the full triforce's power last I checked, which is why Hylia had to reincarnate as a mortal.
And no, if you EVER have to preface your claim with a "maybe", I don't want to hear it.
And the Phantom Ganon one just kind of disingenuous, you kind of forgot to mention it was 4v1 against him and they spirit bombed him to weaken him, and that Link had the Triforce of Courage on him too? He also has a piece? Yet you're trying to frame it like it's base Link and he just boxed him or some shit when it isn't.
Yes, because he actively says he not only took its full power and made it his, but he even ANALYZED it, and that it isn't enough and he wants more? Hell Null has more reason to scale to the thing then 99% of everyone, that's how hammered in it gets.
Please for the love of god stop arguing things if you haven't actually played the game.
Yep, stop using gameplay too if it's contradicted by the actual scripted cutscenes.
I really didn't think I had to explain this, but, the game literally shows us him using the Master Sword, both before and after, they say he used the Master Sword, and ngl hate to break it to you but arguing that Ganon is hurt by start of game weaponry is the last thing you want to do, because you'd know what that means right? It means whatever power boosts you think they're getting, are actually so miniscule that they amount to basically nothing. And even worse means your whole weapon yap is also wrong because things magnitudes weaker than them, can apparently harm them just fine (doesn't he still have all that in cutscene afterward anyway?).
Please stop powerscaling.
The thing with dialogue, script, cutscenes and an A>B>C route (for the most part) with yap and lore, is not a loose canon. It's what we like to call in the gaming industry as a "it's story mode".
I mean I really don't gotta do a thing, it's you who needs to prove it, and you're not doing a very good job at it. Can you tell you right no if you were to try to get that shit past in a CRT it wouldn't fly, it'd be rejected and might even risk making a discussion rule for i.
Because it's LITERALLY wiki rules? HW isn't special, Kirby has to do it (that shit got nuked because of it too, awhile ago even so this isn't news), FF has to do it, Fire Emblem has to do it, Mario has to do it (that shit got nuked because of it too, recently even), Metroid has to do it (that shit got nuked because of it too, recently even), things like Dragon Ball has to do it even (mostly in heroes), goddamn ZELDA has to do it, this EXACT situation for main canon Ganon literally had to be proven otherwise his ass was going to be downgraded.
So why in the world do you think you get special treatment? When no other verse does, and if they do it's outdated it should be downgraded so don't try to pull some sort of "this 15 year old profile says-", let alone the fact we literally have the exact same situation where a different Ganon had to get a statement showing he absorbed the full thing's power to get 3-A.
So that is why, and honest, even if this wasn't literally required, I'd argue it anyway, why do you want to vibe scale? Our goal is to index things as they are, that we can prove, not guesswork. Actually let me put it this way, if you make a claim on a profile, and you can't add a citation to it from the source material stating that claim, don't put it on the profile.
Uh.
That's actually not true, only ONE Ganon has ever had a triforce piece, and he actually IS stated to?
You talking like there's 20 Ganons who had a triforce piece and we scale them all automatically, we don't, or at least, we wouldn't if it wasn't literally the SAME dude.
A better example would be Zelda, who multiple have the ToW, and guess what we don't do? Scale them all automatically just because of it. Same with Link, don't you find it odd how MM Link explicitly retained his piece, but isn't like low 5-B or something? Or how TP Link has it from the get go but his ass starts out at 8-C? Or godforbid the case study that is BOTW Zelda who has the whole triforce but explicitly has no idea how to use it or tap into it 99% of the time.
Your example is bad, and for examples that would actually work, we don't do that very thig you claim.
You post scans or you stop arguing. This is a very simple concept, if you make a claim, you back it up when asked. If you can not prove that point, you drop it. Like goddamn you want me to post some scans, just say the word, might take like a day of digging but everything I've said is mentioned somewhere, though at the same time most of what I said isn't exactly hidden, I pray you don't actually need a link to something such as the final boss of EoW where bro just flatout yaps exactly what I said.
And yes, for 99.99% of them it doesn't, so they either don't scale (most zeldas, a few Link's), or they scale via other means (OOT Link scales to Ganon directly, same with TP Link, etc), or do have a statement of some sort (Ganon, Albw Link thinking on it, etc). We never just auto assume.
I don't think my blood pressure has ever spiked beyond120/80 in this thread, tbh it might have even dropped at point out of sheer tiredness.
Dear God, you actually don't know what magnitude means. Especially in the mathematical or qualitive sense.
Which is what amounts to a 6x increase, at best, using nothing but gameplay numbers. You didn't even like that route and explicitly said that WASN'T what your point was.
Meaning, there must be some sort of secret lore that says they're magnitudes stronger, as such, I want that scan, you've tripled down on it, so post it.
Blitz her. Turn into Link and shred her apart. Facetank everything she can do while they gank her. Poison her. Fry her to death (both via heat and electricity mind you). Freeze her solid. All of the above at the same time, etc.
Like don't be fooled, at absolute best they scale to the same value (Triforce pieces), when talking of their peaks, EoW just happens to have way more shit going on and several abilities HW Zelda lacks an answer to or sufficient resistance toward. Being generous it's def not an easy fight, but not being a complete stomp doesn't mean it ain't what it is.
I'd argue things like Lv4 Darknut aren't something she's just oneshotting given the context around them or the lore behind the funny energy system but, idk smack her with a stick really hard?
Dude, technically speaking EoW upscales. She and HW Zelda are equal at best, and then Link mode upscales her, ergo.
EoW Zelda is faster chat, she's well into rel. HW Zelda, actually what does she even scale to? That game lacks anything exploitable like Beamos or actual light attacks? Thinking on it, don't they get memed on by lightning attacks?
Then why are you LYING? Because if you know what happened and are saying shit that is straight up wrong, like actually wrong, not interpretation, not "it could be this", straight up not up for debate, factually incorrect information you're spouting. If you're doubling down on the fact you actually know what happened, that means you're lying. And if you're deliberately lying that is grounds for a ban. Really don't know why you didn't just admit you screwed up there instead of saying things that can only mean deliberate falsehoods are being spoken, but whatever that's on you.
No, I didn't, how could I? It's blatant and anyone ever who's played it would know that happened.
The problem here is that you're saying they did half the health to the Ganon that the 10k MS fought, which literally isn't true. And you've now doubled down saying you apparently know what actually happened, so stop lying because now that you doubled down on being knowledgeable, is the only thing you have left to be doing.
Do you just forget your own points when typing? I don't understand, am I being trolled?
You said, and I quote,
You then said
These were in response to the MS at the start of TOTK being SHATTERED by Ganon. This was used as evidence to say that TOTK mummy Ganon > Calamity Ganon/AoC Ganon.
As such in response you decided to go on about DLC, and how that was lost.
And your reason for it being lost... Is the VERY FEAT THAT PROVES YOUR CLAIMS WRONG which you used to argue HIM BREAKING IT WASN'T AS HIGH.
Jesus christ dude, are you actually fr? Like stop trolling, I can't actually believe you're not doing this on purpose.
So yeah dude, I do remember, and it's also why you're wrong to begin with, thanks for proving your own argument wrong, explaining why Ganondorf at his weakest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BOTW DLC MS.
And why the MS that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>. that Ganondorf, is by proxy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that MS, and thus the things that MS scales to.
You just admitted it was by confirming that mummy Ganon obliterated the version that stomps and scales to the things you've been gassing up in a single casual hit.
If it isn't "very strong", that just means comparatively what you've been backing is pathetically weak.
You did given you keep saying the Ganon that that 10K MS was used on, well guess which Ganon that is?
Rhetorical, it's Ganondorf from TOTK, not Calamity Ganon.
Why do you think this is a reply? Why do you think we don't already got leaks?
Not if a billion direct statements say otherwise. So give the proof.
Bro, you know Malice is effectively diluted Gloom right? Read the Masterworks, weren't you told to go read that a few weeks ago before arguing BOTW/TOTK again so you'd be up to date?
If you actually can't remember your own posts stop replying to me.
"Well, TotK Zelda loses to Calamity Ganon. She spent 10,100 years making the Master Sword (which contributed to only half Calamity Ganon’s death) barely any stronger at all and even with a Secret Stone she couldn’t match the guy who can be killed by that Master Sword even by swallowing it." - You.
This is you, YOU said that. And you said it in response to me calling out your wack scaling because you said
"AoC Zelda is strong enough to shitstomp Calamity Ganon, which is stronger than most characters in the BotWverse including TotK Zelda."
So let me get this straight, you say TOTK Zelda is weaker than AoC, because of Calamity Ganon. You say Calamity Ganon is stronger than Totk Zelda. You say, in detail, that TotK loses to Calamity Ganon, and in the same thought, proceed to clarify why, that being she spent 10k years empowering the MS, and the MS only did half of Calamity Ganon's health, which, you're wrong like actually stop arguing at this point, followed by doubling down and saying with the stone she couldn't match the dude who ALSO has a stone fyi, who can be killed by the Master Sword that can kill the dude.
And you think I'm buying this backpedal?
You're wrong on every front.
You conflated Calamity Ganon with Ganondorf, saying the light dragon MS was used to fight Calamity Ganon, which, it wasn't, at all, how did you arrive to this conclusion.
You used that logic to say it wasn't much stronger, and furthermore her feats put her below Calamity Ganon because even after that time it only did half.
BUT, you conveniently ignore the fact that the Master Sword that actually killed Calamity Ganon, was obliterated by a single Gloom shot from Ganondorf at his weakest and explicitly hard stated almost killing Link from mere collateral.
This already puts weakest Ganondorf >>>>>>>> Calamity Ganon and the MS that was used to kill him.
Zelda then goes to the past, gets funny stone, power amp, and can even fend off base non weakened Ganondorf with her squad (Mind you one hit nearly kills BOTW Link from a weaker form). So she's already > BOTW and Calamity Ganon.
Then, dragon slop, she empowers the MS for a frugtillion years, and then THIS MS is strong enough to kill the dude, who is in a vastly stronger state, who then goes into a state that is dramatically stronger, and even further into an even stronger state, and kills him just fine, even deflecting gloom attacks just fine now, and moreover purifying them, instead of being annihilated on contact.
And you're saying nuh uh actually Calamity Ganon > 10k MS and the 10k MS barely got stronger? Despite being, ignoring calcs, multiple one shots above the other?
All while this Zelda can also tank attacks from this Ganon at his strongest (which are even noted to be more potent now), who at his weakest would one shot Calamity Ganon?
And yet she somehow loses?
Not going by the the ten billion statements.
Also "tiny amp", that is multiple one shots? How's that tiny?
Yeah and you can also kill Majora as Deku Link. I can write you an actual 500 word post using NOTHING but direct statements as to why that will never be accepted, because it's wrong, like not even just wrong, I'd rather scale Saibaman to Beerus lvs of wrong.
Do us both a favor and actually READ what the game says instead of assuming you can legitimately kill Ganondorf with a branch you picked off the ground. There's so much yap in TOTK that even just reading 1% of the game's transcript would get you about a dozen statements.
Yes, actually, exactly like that.
Idk how to reply to this in a way that won't get me banned ngl chat...
Honestly I think we're at the point of just compiling a report for you. You're either trolling deliberately, which must be the case, given you doubled down in this very post about playing the games and knowing exactly what happened so you can't just say you forgot or were misinformed now, which means blatant deliberate misinfo. Or you keep arguing things you have no idea on, say you do and thus lying about it, and then start pointless thread clutter because you feel the need to argue out of ignorance instead of just double checking first.
Either way.
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Random thing: Do we consider Ancient Arrows and Ancient Blades to be the same thing? And if so, couldn't we scale the TotK sage bosses to Low 7-B/7-B via scaling them to Ancient Arrows, which are one of three things that can harm Dark Beast Ganon (Along with the Bow of Light, and Master Sword Beams)?
Dust_Collector
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They're basically the same thing but scaling between them is kinda iffy imo. Ancient Arrows harming DB Ganon might be game mechanics given canonically Link only uses the Bow of Light to attack the weak points Zelda makes.
Dust_Collector
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Also minor spoiler for AOI not that there were any doubts before, but the game explictly calls the bood moon "Ganondorf's Blood Moon"
OrangeFR
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Thank God you said that, for a bit I thought you deadass put Girahim above Demise and Ganon w/ the ToP
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