(Mega Man Zero) - Omega Is Really, Really Greedy (AP Increase)

[TheHedgememe]

Hello! Kind of a random CRT but this is something that's been in my mind for a while and I figured I'd throw this at the wall and see if it sticks.

So, with the already accepted reasoning and justifications for Tier 2 Mega Man X/Zero/ZX in mind, there’s been something that’s bothered me. The Zero Era (and onwards) should actually have more universes in their AP than the X era. Please hear me out on this.

For those uninitiated on the current scaling, here’s the original Tier 2 MMX/Z/ZX thread in question:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/mega-...riumphant-return-massive-stat-upgrades.179855

Additionally, if you’d rather not read a thread, feel free to read this blog: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...scale_of_the_Cyberspaces_+_Tier_2_Mega_Man_X5

If you already know about this or have just now caught up, I’ll begin:

Let's start with the fact that Omega’s Cyberspace is where all data flows until the end. Not only would this include the data of reploids and all material phenomena (including time and space), but this should also include the data of other Cyberspaces that have existed in the series as well. And seeing as information from different points in time can be accessed through data, such as data from the past with how Phantom learns of the Elf Wars and Zero himself, and then the future through Snipe Anteater witnessing the events of Zero 1 from accessing Zero’s data, I think it’s reasonable that Omega’s Cyberspace should include all of these other Cyberspaces too as accessing data from different points in time is a concept that exists in the series as shown by Anteater and Phantom.

Remember, when Phantom says he learned of Zero (among the Elf Wars and the Dark Elf), he also says he learned of everything: Likely including Zero’s origins and his involvement in spreading the Sigma Virus as Phantom is disgusted by Zero, telling him he never had what it takes to be a hero, as if he actually found all of this out while in Cyberspace. Obviously, a majority of the X Era's events happened before Omega created his Cyberspace, so for Phantom to know about Zero in full, it would have to have directly accessed data from that point in time.

Even if the other Cyberspaces ceased to exist before the events of the Zero Era, Omega’s Cyberspace should have the data of the Cyberspaces anyways as it could have very well dug up the data of the other Cyberspaces from the past. It being a space-time mirroring the real world's phenomena in its entirety, should also logically include its past and its future—supported by Phantom learning of the past through the data within Cyberspace.

So, with that out of the way, let’s just get a headcount of all the Cyberspaces present past the 27+ already present in the Mother Computer:

• X4 Cyberspace (1 Universe)
• Zero Space (4 Universes)
• X7’s Cyber Field (1 Universe)
• X8’s Training Simulations (9, 8 standard training simulations and then Cut Man’s fight lol)

In total: 15 additional universes to add to the attack potency of 27+ (since the Mother Computer Cyberspaces should be included), making it 42+ universes. Holy crap, this is a bigger number than I expected.

Obviously, anyone who scales to Omega's creation of Cyberspace should scale to this, which I'm fairly certain means anyone that scales to a post Elf-Wars X, Zero, or Omega. Feel free to give your thoughts.

EDIT #1: Omega's Cyberspace should now include the training simulation of Doppler's Laboratory, X Challenge Zero Space, and the Cyber Space stage from Zero 4 (since it's a separate one from the one Omega created). That's two, plus another four for the Zero Space stages stored in X Challenge, leading the new total to be 48+ universes.

EDIT #2: The universe count is.... Actually much higher than the initial amount. What the hell. It's closer to being over a hundred, following the logic that the Maverick Hunters still store the past battle data of Mavericks in the same manner they did with the Mother Computer. Please read the linked doc for something I feel is more accurate. (TL;DR: 176 Universes)

EDIT #2.5: Also, Zero 4 Cyberspace is added to this so take the number in the document and add 1 to it. Classic Era might even bump up this number even more since it's well-established and agreed upon that data from past Cyberspaces is part of Omega's Cyberspace. Any future Cyberspaces (ZX/Legends) could also be part of this too but I'm not knowledgeable enough in ZX/Legends lore to argue for it. (EDIT 2.6: Omega's Cyberspace, on its own, is also another universe. Barring stuff from other eras, that's 2 from the Zero Era Omega would have created.)

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Yeah, i agree. Seems fair enough. This is technically already accepted on the profile, we just didn't account for the rest. I also was able to notice this before and i was already think of revising it

Man, the times when this feat was rejected were dark

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

This seems fine to me.

 

[AlloyAmi]

another thing id like to add, we also know data has save load schenigans:

Mega Man Zero:
Ciel acknowledges Zero not taking a break and proceeding without saving after completing a mission in neo arcadia shrine.

Text: Ciel: You have disrupted the area. The Trans Server near your current position has been activated. You should return to base now to take a rest...
(If Zero moves on)
Ciel: You want to proceed without saving? Good luck, Zero...

Ciel also asks Zero if he wants to save before major missions multiple times.

Mega Man Zero 2:
Ciel acknowledges that she manages Zero's data to save.
Text: Ciel: Anyway, I'm going to manage your data for you, if you need me, come and talk to me anytime, okay?

Elpizo even acknowledges saving midway through the game.
Text: Elpizo: Thanks to you, we have completed our preparations for our all-out attack. Now leave everything to us. You can save your current data, and take a rest. You deserve it.

Mega Man Zero 4:

Ciel saves Zero's data and asks him to drop by whenever he wants to store his data.
Text: Ciel: Thanks Zero, I just need a little more time. Now might be a good time to drop by Cerveau's for some maintenance. After that come and see me in the commander's room. Oh, before that... I'll save your data!(If YES)(Ciel saves Zero's data)Ciel: All saved! I'll be here in the commander's room. If you ever want to store your data, just drop by.

If Zero denies her saving here, she still acknowledges that she can still save whenever and that she is in charge of his data.
Text: Ciel: Thanks Zero, I just need a little more time. Now might be a good time to drop by Cerveau's for some maintenance. After that come and see me in the commander's room. Oh, before that... I'll save your data!(If NO)Ciel: You sure? Don't overdo it. I'll be here if you change your mind. I'm in charge of data. Just drop by if you need to save.

Overall:

The way to save is canonically referred to as processing, managing, and storing data throughout the entire series.

And if that wasn't enough, XDiVE confirms saving 100%

Additionally for your argument for Omega's cyberspace having other cyberworlds, Zero 4 shows cyber elves (Croire in this scenario) work in seperate cyberworlds, meaning that cyberworld is within cyberspace as they manipulate cyberspace's information to affect reality in the actual location.

 

[AlloyAmi]

also you forgot the x challenge simulations that show they continue storing each individual event akin to xtreme long after said events. showing a simulated dr dopplers lab, and zero space for the ultimate armor x vs awakened zero fight where x gets to see the perspective on what its like to fight the teamup of the goats themselves at their strongest.

Pulling this from the xtreme blog:

We know that past data continues to be stored in the series as shown in X Challenge (which is canon and takes place after Mega Man X6, which is also evident by the X1-6 mavericks being treated as defeated in the past) as they stored the data of how things were when X fought Dr. Doppler back in Mega Man X3, as X fights Dr. Doppler and Godkarmachine O Inary in a virtual training session to see what would happen if X fought Dr. Doppler and his most fearsome creation at the same time. We know this as the location in the background takes place in Dr. Doppler’s hidden laboratory that has long been destroyed since the end of Mega Man X3.

How this changes the result idk up to you all.

 

[TheHedgememe]

also you forgot the x challenge simulations that show they continue storing each individual event akin to xtreme long after said events. showing a simulated dr dopplers lab, and zero space for the ultimate armor x vs awakened zero fight where x gets to see the perspective on what its like to fight the teamup of the goats themselves at their strongest.

Pulling this from the xtreme blog:


How this changes the result idk up to you all.

So, Doppler's stage here would probably be yet another Cyberspace.

Would that then also mean the past data Zero Space featured in X Challenge be another 4 universes? Or just the one that the fight takes place in?

 

[TheHedgememe]

Yeah, i agree. Seems fair enough. This is technically already accepted on the profile, we just didn't account for the rest. I also was able to notice this before and i was already think of revising it

Man, the times when this feat was rejected were dark

Lol, real. Happy to see someone else think the same thing.

Admittedly I was a victim of a LOT of misinformation regarding Omega's Cyberspace. But seeing a lot of it be cleared up made me genuinely believe it a lot more.

 

[Migue79]

… You know, I should’ve seen this coming. Given we accept cyberspaces = universes here in VSBW and it contains all data, I mean… Yeah, the logic is sound. Can’t argue against it.

Admittedly I was a victim of a LOT of misinformation regarding Omega's Cyberspace. But seeing a lot of it be cleared up made me genuinely believe it a lot more.

Deep inside, I always believed he created that Cyberspace rift. Just that it wasn’t until Ami addressed a problem I had about applying the RTRZ Telos booklet info that I was comfortable with saying it’s Tier 2. Although tbh, my concern would’ve just been relegated to it being a plot hole since Capcom explicitly says that in Zero 3 there is only 1 Cyberspace and not multiple like I had first thought.

 

[Smashtwig]

This will likely require a blog instead of a thread to total up all the universes that you are tallying up-

 

[TyranoDoom30]

This will likely require a blog instead of a thread to total up all the universes that you are tallying up-

Make the cosmology blog, Twig.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Deep inside, I always believed he created that Cyberspace rift. Just that it wasn’t until Ami addressed a problem I had about applying the RTRZ Telos booklet info that I was comfortable with saying it’s Tier 2. Although tbh, my concern would’ve just been relegated to it being a plot hole since Capcom explicitly says that in Zero 3 there is only 1 Cyberspace and not multiple like I had first thought.

Doesn't help that the general confusion about the Cyberspace rift had already existed for years. A lot of people (myself included) thought Omega's appearance simply created the portals to and from Cyberspace, when in reality he created the actual dimension itself and then also the doors to it.

With the statement, it could also mean that there's one "Big" Cyberspace like the one Omega created where all others (and their data) flow into.

 

[TheHedgememe]

This will likely require a blog instead of a thread to total up all the universes that you are tallying up-

Agreed, actually.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

A lot of people (myself included) thought Omega's appearance simply created the portals to and from Cyberspace, when in reality he created the actual dimension itself and then also the doors to it.

I've always thought Omega created it, specially considering the fact the Zero Virus also created a Cyberspace. The confusion mainly started because most people were relying on lore videos and the english version (Where it does genuinely imply Omega just made portals) rather than actually checking the japanese original.

 

[TheHedgememe]

I've always thought Omega created it, specially considering the fact the Zero Virus also created a Cyberspace. The confusion mainly started because most people were relying on lore videos and the english version (Where it does genuinely imply Omega just made portals) rather than actually checking the japanese original.

Yeah. I will say, the translation for the Japanese originals still would be accurate in that Omega did create/open the doors to Cyberspace. I always found the argument that it was an idiom a little silly when the Complete Works bio of Cyberspace would've sufficed perfectly for the argument. Then again I'm no speaker of the Japanese language, so I don't have much to say in regards to that.

I guess I did have that same inkling of it actually being the case, but I was so solar system level doompilled about the verse that I didn't really bother to make a case for it. I sooner went to composite versions of the characters for multi scaling than the actual games themselves lol.

 

[Migue79]

Yeah. I will say, the translation for the Japanese originals still would be accurate in that Omega did create/open the doors to Cyberspace. I always found the argument that it was an idiom a little silly when the Complete Works bio of Cyberspace would've sufficed perfectly for the argument. Then again I'm no speaker of the Japanese language, so I don't have much to say in regards to that.

I think it’s important to note because the English localisation said “portal”, which… I mean, would 100% contradict the idea. With the JP saying “door”, that changes the reading and nuance quite a bit that it becomes a little ambiguous. Not relevant anyways. Reliable sources state he created it and that’s that.

I guess I did have that same inkling of it actually being the case, but I was so solar system level doompilled about the verse that I didn't really bother to make a case for it. I sooner went to composite versions of the characters for multi scaling than the actual games themselves.

God, this made me laugh ngl.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I guess I did have that same inkling of it actually being the case, but I was so solar system level doompilled about the verse that I didn't really bother to make a case for it.

Power scaling brainrot, i see

 

[TheHedgememe]

So, Doppler's stage here would probably be yet another Cyberspace.

Would that then also mean the past data Zero Space featured in X Challenge be another 4 universes? Or just the one that the fight takes place in?

Okay so I did a bit of digging again and it's definitely more than just the one stage since Sigma and Zero Nightmare are fought in Zero Space stage 4. Also consistent with the past data still continuing to be stored past the Xtreme games so it's more than likely all four of them outright.

I think it’s important to note because the English localisation said “portal”, which… I mean, would 100% contradict the idea. With the JP saying “door”, that changes the reading and nuance quite a bit that it becomes a little ambiguous. Not relevant anyways. Reliable sources state he created it and that’s that.

I mean, I still don't think Phantom using "portal" in the localization really contradicts Omega's creation of Cyberspace. Portals are effectively just interdimensional doors in that they're openings to other dimensions/universes/whatever. Even the English version of the Complete Works says that Omega created Cyberspace itself, and goes on to describe it as a separate dimension. We also already know it's effectively a purgatory for reploids, being between life and death, ensuring its status as a "rift." In that sense, you can argue it's also a sort of "portal" to the afterlife for reploids if someone really insists on arguing with Phantom's usage of the word (which to me seems blatantly dishonest considering everything else pointing towards Omega just creating the dimension outright). Otherwise, it's indisputable that Omega created Cyberspace itself.

To use an analogy: If I build a house and give it doors, I would've still built the house. I just also gave it doors so that people can walk in and out of it. It's just that in this case, the house is a separate universe and the portals are the (shown as literal) doors to that universe.

God, this made me laugh ngl.

Power scaling brainrot, i see

Happy to have made your day lol. Agendaspeak's effectively wormed its way into my vocabulary.

 

[Migue79]

I mean, I still don't think Phantom using "portal" in the localization really contradicts Omega's creation of Cyberspace. Portals are effectively just interdimensional doors in that they're openings to other dimensions/universes/whatever. Even the English version of the Complete Works says that Omega created Cyberspace itself, and goes on to describe it as a separate dimension. We also already know it's effectively a purgatory for reploids, being between life and death, ensuring its status as a "rift." In that sense, you can argue it's also a sort of "portal" to the afterlife for reploids if someone really insists on arguing with Phantom's usage of the word (which to me seems blatantly dishonest considering everything else pointing towards Omega just creating the dimension outright). Otherwise, it's indisputable that Omega created Cyberspace itself.

To use an analogy: If I build a house and give it doors, I would've still built the house. I just also gave it doors so that people can walk in and out of it. It's just that in this case, the house is a separate universe and the portals are the (shown as literal) doors to that universe.

My point is that most peeps wouldn't think about this and would just take the localised scan at face value, and by using the JP version arguing against taking it at face value makes it easier.

Happy to have made your day lol. Agendaspeak's effectively wormed its way into my vocabulary.

Embracing the VSBrainrot. You love to see it.

 

[TheHedgememe]

My point is that most peeps wouldn't think about this and would just take the localised scan at face value, and by using the JP version arguing against taking it at face value makes it easier.

Fair enough actually.

 

[AlloyAmi]

I think it’s important to note because the English localisation said “portal”, which… I mean, would 100% contradict the idea. With the JP saying “door”, that changes the reading and nuance quite a bit that it becomes a little ambiguous. Not relevant anyways. Reliable sources state he created it and that’s that.

Building onto what hedgememe said, its really not a contradiction, its just 2 things that happened and were both caused by omega. omega created cyberspace with his very initial appearance according to lore, which is the elf wars, which also connects to how it led to the mass exploitation of cyber elves. when he came back in zero 3, his existance which already is reality defying created openings to the dimension, which further establishes his direct connection to it which hidden phantom gives us this direct insight on.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Okay so I did a bit of digging again and it's definitely more than just the one stage since Sigma and Zero Nightmare are fought in Zero Space stage 4. Also consistent with the past data still continuing to be stored past the Xtreme games so it's more than likely all four of them outright.

regarding this, they arent ALL simulations, theres little lore blurbs before the fight. You can read them all here

This one isnt really explained beyond that it was caused by the "catastrophic aftermath of sigmas madness".

So he kinda just brought zero space and all these mfs back so far. But every maverick IS stored as data, alongwith zero space being a digital dimension. if we have events like dr dopplers fight and awakened zero being kept as data, occams razor would suggest they simply just have every battle up to x6 stored to some degree as the mother computer has data on ALL past battles as the compendium of rockman x states, and it would be really weird to limit it to only dr doppler and awakened zero fights only.

 

[TheHedgememe]

regarding this, they arent ALL simulations, theres little lore blurbs before the fight. You can read them all here

This one isnt really explained beyond that it was caused by the "catastrophic aftermath of sigmas madness".

So he kinda just brought zero space and all these mfs back so far. But every maverick IS stored as data, alongwith zero space being a digital dimension. if we have events like dr dopplers fight and awakened zero being kept as data, occams razor would suggest they simply just have every battle up to x6 stored to some degree as the mother computer has data on ALL past battles as the compendium of rockman x states, and it would be really weird to limit it to only dr doppler and awakened zero fights only.

So you mean we could get potentially into hundreds if we follow this argument to its logical conclusion?

 

[TheHedgememe]

Okay so while I'm brainrotting about this at work, I have a general guideline on how we should index the number of universes/cyberspaces in the cosmology.

The Mother Computer, where all data from past battles is stored (even past Xtreme/Cyber Mission because of Dragoon and Doppler's data being stored). This should include a large majority of the series' stages, if not all of them outright—including the ones that take place in Cyberspaces. I imagine that even after X8 the Hunters would still be recording every single incident they can as data.

Then we add the number of Cyberspaces that also exist independently of the Mother Computer (X4 Cyberspace, X7 Cyber Field, X8 Troia Base) to however many are in the Mother Computer by the time of X8 (being the most recent canon X game and all). Then we add the Zero 4 one.

That's how I think we'll get our total number of universes.

Edit: Would it also be possible to include data from the future in Omega's Cyberspace, such as any Cyberspaces from ZX and Legends (asking since those are two series I'm not knowledgeable in)?

EDIT 2: Formatting and additional clarification/information I forgot to add. Apologies for the numerous updates to this one reply.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Another update! I made a Google Doc tallying up all the cyberspaces in the X Era (since that's the one I'm most knowledgeable in). I'll be updating the OP to reflect this, should everyone be cool with it.

@Smashtwig, hopefully this helps you with your cosmology blog @TyranoDoom30 is bothering you about haha. Correct any information present in the doc as you please.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Another update! I made a Google Doc tallying up all the cyberspaces in the X Era (since that's the one I'm most knowledgeable in). I'll be updating the OP to reflect this, should everyone be cool with it.

@Smashtwig, hopefully this helps you with your cosmology blog @TyranoDoom30 is bothering you about haha. Correct any information present in the doc as you please.

I think he was joking but I can make it as I generally know the entire series minus legends, i might make a quick crt regarding astro man to really hammer in upscaling though.

 

[TheHedgememe]

I think he was joking but I can make it as I generally know the entire series minus legends, i might make a quick crt regarding astro man to really hammer in upscaling though.

Oh, whoops! My apologies.

Go ahead with the CRT if need be!

 

[WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH]

Gonna count up to 2-B at this rate. Christ the number's getting huge.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Gonna count up to 2-B at this rate. Christ the number's getting huge.

2-B starts at 1001 universes, so probably not.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Gonna count up to 2-B at this rate. Christ the number's getting huge.

You could actually argue for this if you go with the interpretation that there's probably stuff in the Mother Computer for incidents beyond the scale of X's conflicts with the Mavericks (even prior to Xtreme) but it's not at all quantifiable and relies heavily on appealing to some sort of reason based on it. Dunno if there's a surefire way to argue that for a forum such as VSBW.

But yeah... That number's huge and only gonna rise. Not at all how far I expected this verse to get into 2-C.

 

[AlloyAmi]

You could actually argue for this if you go with the interpretation that there's probably stuff in the Mother Computer for incidents beyond the scale of X's conflicts with the Mavericks (even prior to Xtreme) but it's not at all quantifiable and relies heavily on appealing to some sort of reason based on it. Dunno if there's a surefire way to argue that for a forum such as VSBW.

But yeah... That number's huge and only gonna rise. Not at all how far I expected this verse to get into 2-C.

MWI because it has awakened zero data even though that didnt even canonically happen

/j

 

[TheHedgememe]

MWI because it has awakened zero data even though that didnt even canonically happen

/j

"One of many possibilities of the Continuum Shift" ass argument

I guess you could be onto something tho since Command Mission is noted to actually be one of many potential futures that exists independently from MMZ. And the Awakened Zero route is genuinely accessible in-game, leading to a unique ending and everything. Not sure if/how you can argue beyond that.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

5-D Cyberspace when

Joker aside, i think we should call some mods

 

[TheHedgememe]

5-D Cyberspace when

Joker aside, i think we should call some mods

I unironically believe it could be but we just don't have solid enough proof yet.

Anyway, agreed. Let's call mods.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Need some staff to take a look at this.

 

[Smashtwig]

5-D Cyberspace when

I will make a very bad argument just for the sake of it- but a prelude

First off, we must not forget that Omega's Cyberspace would also count as its own universe, as it's described as a dimensional rift and what not and it has to be big enough to maintain other universes, so +1 to your count.

Now onto my bad argument- it hinges on "brane cosmology". Please don't flame me

On an extremely basic level, it basically translates to "a big universe that contains our universe makes it 5D". But when this theory was originally postulated it was to explain why gravity is so weak compared to the other fundamental forces.

The solution they came up with is that our (3D) Universe is embedded inside a "brane", which is inside a higher dimensional space called "the bulk", and through some means, gravity was supposed to leak from the brane to said bulk, or- something like that.

Bulks in brane cosmology would have to fit an infinite 3D object (our universe- assuming its infinite), yet also have to be bigger somehow for gravity to leak elsewhere. Since you can't really get bigger than infinite in most cases (unless you're a mathematician), you would need a whole other spatial axis to make such a thing work (think, a infinitely big square inside an infinitely big cube- the cube has the same dimensions as the square, and it can't get bigger than that as it's already infinite. The only way for it to contain the brane would be to get a new dimension)

This is where a multiverse can fit into here- an unintended consequence of those that theorized this cosmological model is that this new bulk can contain more embedded universes. If each universe is a square (3D), then the bulk is a cube (4D), you can fit an infinite amount of universes inside said bulk. Add +1 Time Dimension and ta da you get 5D.

Onto how this even relates to Omega's Cyberspace. But before that, I'd like to argue that without a container, a multiverse can simply exist (in the analogy, the squares could just be floating around without a cube to contain them) I don't see how it can't be so, there doesn't HAVE to be a container/bulk to hold all of them. Now, we've established that, Omega's Cyberspace is basically a container for all other data, including as we established- other Cyberspaces which we call universes.

In order to do that it must be bigger than all of them combined to contain it, and because it is big enough to somehow hold multiple universes- Omega's Cyberspace must be a bulk, for many branes

boom. There's your super vague "2-C, possibly Low 1-C". I don't even believe it myself.

What have I done

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I will make a very bad argument just for the sake of it- but a prelude

First off, we must not forget that Omega's Cyberspace would also count as its own universe, as it's described as a dimensional rift and what not and it has to be big enough to maintain other universes, so +1 to your count.

Now onto my bad argument- it hinges on "brane cosmology". Please don't flame me

On an extremely basic level, it basically translates to "a big universe that contains our universe makes it 5D". But when this theory was originally postulated it was to explain why gravity is so weak compared to the other fundamental forces.

The solution they came up with is that our (3+1D) Universe is embedded inside a "brane", which is inside a higher dimensional space called "the bulk", and through some means, gravity was supposed to leak from the brane to said bulk, or- something like that.

Bulks in brane cosmology would have to fit an infinite 3D object (our universe- assuming its infinite), yet also have to be bigger somehow for gravity to leak elsewhere. Since you can't really get bigger than infinite in most cases (unless you're a mathematician), you would need a whole other spatial axis to make such a thing work (think, a infinitely big square inside an infinitely big cube- the cube has the same dimensions as the square, and it can't get bigger than that as it's already infinite. The only way for it to contain the brane would be to get a new dimension)

This is where a multiverse can fit into here- an unintended consequence of those that theorized this cosmological model is that this new bulk can contain more embedded universes. If each universe is a square (3D), then the bulk is a cube (4D), you can fit an infinite amount of universes inside said bulk. Add +1 Time Dimension and ta da you get 5D.

Onto how this even relates to Omega's Cyberspace. But before that, I'd like to argue that without a container, a multiverse can simply exist- I don't see how it can't be so, there doesn't HAVE to be a container/bulk to hold all of them. Now, we've established that, Omega's Cyberspace is basically a container for all other data, including as we established- other Cyberspaces which we call universes.

In order to do that it must be bigger than all of them combined to contain it, and because it is big enough to somehow hold multiple universes- Omega's Cyberspace must be a bulk, for many branes

boom. There's your super vague "2-C, possibly Low 1-C". I don't even believe it myself.

What have I done

Nah, not reading allat

 

[TheHedgememe]

In the process of calling mods rn.

Edit: Btw for any mods or new people that just joined, ignore any and all spitballing of Tier 1 arguments. That's not what the thread's for, it's just more universes into 2-C for now as indicated in the OP.

 

[Smashtwig]

i do not mind getting an answer on how Tier 1 flies even though I personally don't support it (that requires a whole cosmology blog on top of this Tier 2 one) but the Tier 2 is indeed the primary point of this thread

 

[TheHedgememe]

i do not mind getting an answer on how Tier 1 flies even though I personally don't support it (that requires a whole cosmology blog on top of this Tier 2 one) but the Tier 2 is indeed the primary point of this thread

Since you said that I suppose we could probably see if we can get an answer on that, then. Doubt it'll fly at all since I doubt we've got scans supporting any sort of higher dimensionality but it's better to have our bases covered. I'm perfectly fine just getting the additional 2-C universes in before anything.

Let's start with the fact that Omega’s Cyberspace is where all data flows until the end. Not only would this include the data of reploids and all material phenomena (including time and space), but this should also include the data of other Cyberspaces that have existed in the series as well. And seeing as information from different points in time can be accessed through data, such as data from the past with how Phantom learns of the Elf Wars and Zero himself, and then the future through Snipe Anteater witnessing the events of Zero 1 from accessing Zero’s data, I think it’s reasonable that Omega’s Cyberspace should include all of these other Cyberspaces too as accessing data from different points in time is a concept that exists in the series as shown by Anteater and Phantom.

I think a decent supporting argument you could make is that data's potentially unbound by linear time, as seen with Zero's data accessing the future in X7 and Z3 Cyberspace's entire existence explicitly being all material phenomena (space and time included, and then the other Cyberspaces in the series since they're pretty obviously part of "all data"), and the fact that data composes these Cyberspace space-time continuums at all. Not to mention how the Cyber-Elves pretty much have to interface with it before warping reality, implying the data within Z3 Cyberspace can actually dictate and influence the real world.

Again a weird appeal to reason but given that the overall thread's logic has been accepted, and this argument seems consistent with it, you could say that. Only counter-argument you could make is that data is space and time instead of being transcendent over it and that there's a distinct lack of scans proving Z3's transcendent status over the cosmology. That's about it tho. I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed or anything.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Bump.