Again, was this Zalario individually, or was this attributed to Zalario and people with him? His forces?
Assuming the later here requires extraordinary proof since the statement is about Zalario destroying the dimensions himself.
Also, my earlier post proves that the author particularly uses said kanji in context to destroying, not conquering.
Also, I just had a guess and it seems I was right. Fuse is specifically only using 滅ぼ when he literally means destroying instead of conquering(I made it shorter cuz it seems sometimes only that bit is mentioned). As for conquering, seems he's using 攻略 or another kanji like 支配した. So yeah, as much as context matters, the author's writing style does as well.
For instance, here are the first 10 examples of 滅ぼ in V17 I could find by order:
And
For example in the Feldway destroying the Universe section, I showed that Feldway wasn't the one to do anything but he clearly received credit or is assumed so.
And that was because the Divine Tree and Heavenly Star Palace were there. There's an entire section in the OP dedicated to that to thoroughly debunk "oh, Feldway can't destroy the Universe in any way".
The fact that Ciel in V21 says it was Feldway who did it, even mentioning "Feldway's powers" directly. That simply means Feldway was successful in making Milim destroy the cardinal world's universe before Rimuru time travelled back.
So in that same breath, you can pose doubt in whether this was done solely by someone especially someone who like I've said Is relative to beings no greater than solar system.
Whereas said "Solar System" claim was already debunked thoroughly in the OP, and I don't recall you giving any relevant argument that I haven't addressed already in the OP or separately to prove that wrong.
Then at least make sure to source said translation, which you didn't in that case specifically where I'm calling to question the very translation since I know the kanji used.
And I did that too, mind you. Would you care reading the OP or are you here to claim the opposition just because?
This is from the OP:
All translations used here are either from Slimereader, OTL, or from our wiki translators (either staff or approved members) such as @SeijiSetto, @Dattebayo and @MrTayman616. Huge thanks to all of them, really! This thread wouldn't have been possible without them.
So both say destroy yet yours says erase? Why? I also let everyone know what the kanji means and that it couldn't mean erase, so Since I still don't see a source to the translation, I want to call to question it's validity.
Ask that to the guy who translated it, dude ¯\
(ツ)/¯
Did I claim I know Japanese? Nope. So there's no point in asking me that lol
(As for who translated it, that was
@Dattebayo)
No one said they didn't they are "governed" by different laws. For example, a King governs his citizens and if I go to another kingdom, the citizens will be governed differently. But just because they are governed differently doesn't mean the laws are made up by them for them individually, it's as a whole and said individual would just fall into that category.
Merely a false example. Laws of that sense mean different things. Also, I already proved that those laws (more fundamental than laws of physics even) govern the whole of said world (other worlds). To begin with, the claim that they are planets was never proven correct since I thoroughly debunked every single one of that claim.
Also, let's act like we can't read the OP for a second and ignore this blatant statement lmao:
それでも、被害は甚大だ。
〝八門堅陣〟という隔離された限定空間の中で、星系を破壊する規模の超絶エネルギーが荒れ狂った。
それは想像を絶する威力で、基軸世界という他の次元とは隔絶した強度を誇る舞台でなければ、〝八門堅陣〟どころか星そのものが跡形もなく消し飛んでいたはずだ。
It directly says the Cardinal World's sturdiness is far beyond other dimensions.
This means the planets themselves aren't what makes those laws possible, they just exist in a space that has these different laws, which like I said would attribute back to the amount of magicules and the advancement of the civilization.
The problem with that claim is
1. They are not planets
2. They don't exist in space since they aren't planets
3. Magicules effecting laws doesn't mean anything equal to worlds being planets, since Magicules exist in space. "Physical" things simply absorb them, and I already proved that.
You can't call an interpretation fallacious. I never made a truth claim, I simply posed another way to view this, I even said, "Now perhaps these are talking about completely different worlds, and that may be true." So the fallacy is not even attributable here
From the very moment you started posting here in the thread in opposition or in accordance to the OP, you started debating, and from that moment the fallacies apply to you.
Just because there's a "maybe" in an argument doesn't make it absolutely unbound by fallacies lol
It would be more so supporting evidence to the next piece of evidence.
Now you're just throwing fallacies out without utilizing them correctly. An Argument from tradition requires a tradition to be applied, I didn't apply tradition, I applied a logical fact. You can't have a Universe sized Universe that fits between stars. It is physically impossible for that to happen, unless that universe just isn't a universe or universal size, which would still poke holes at your claims.
And my point is that you're not applying a fact, but simply an argument from tradition. That's the whole point of me raising the fallacy lmao
"A universe sized universe" dude, a universe by default is assumed to be universal size unless strong contradictory evidence exists in-verse. And if claims of those contradictory evidence are debunked, so is the requirement to prove "A universe is universe sized" lmao.
Care reading this?
The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com
"Universes" in tensura fit most of the requirements given below. And proving otherwise would require more than just the "narrative convenience parts" you use as scans for counters lol
Edit: Someone told me you meant the about interstellar worlds and how universes can't fit with stars.
And that's simply only when you're assuming that an interstellar world means a world between star or that "interstellar" there even means the where the world is.
Which is false as "interstellar" just refers to the various civilization levels existing in those worlds. All of these are from V17C2:
The first place she came to was a large landmass on one planet or another, a location where civilization was only beginning to form. Here was the leader of a tribe of dark-skinned people—a man with blond hair, still young. This man housed a piece of Ludora’s soul within him.
OTL
_______
First, she found herself on a starry continent where civilization was still in its infancy. A barbarian chief with bronze skin. The young, blond-haired youth was the one who had a fragment of Rudra’s soul in him.
Slimereader
Indeed, a wealth of civilizations could intermix in the physical worlds contained within vast spiritual realms. They could look familiar, all magic and swordfighting, or they could be bereft of magicules and locked away from all types of spells. Civilizations could be driven by a thing called science, and some of the less common realms featured human beings transformed into machines. Some worlds were small enough that a fully unleashed True Dragon could wipe them from existence; others were wastelands, fought over constantly by angels and demons with the powers of awakened demon lords.
Velgrynd traversed all of them—but not by her own free will; rather, she simply took the path she was guided to. They were all at differing levels of civilization (if they had any at all), and she couldn’t conjecture what dimension they were in, or what timeline.
OTL
_______
There were ‘otherworlders,’ so she was aware of that fact, but Velgrynd had never imagined that there were so many different worlds. They were governed by completely different laws, and there was no causality. It was a material world within a great spiritual world of many different civilizations. From the familiar world where swords and magic are the norm, to the world where magic is non-existent and cannot be used. There was also a rare world where scientific civilization had developed and humankind had become mechanized. There were weak worlds that could be blown away by a True Dragon if it unleashed all of its strength, and there were desolate worlds where angels and demons comparable to awakened Demon Lords were in constant conflict.
Velgrynd had traveled through all those worlds. But all of it was not of her own intention, but by what she was guided to. There were different levels of civilization, and Velgrynd had no way of guessing which dimension or timeline she was in.
Slimereader
So yeah, those refer to civilizations inhabiting the planets or whatever in those worlds, not that the world itself is between stars.
The Kardashev Scale is a measurement created by Russian astrophysicist Nikolai Kardashev, meant to measure the scale of a civilization’s technological advancement, measured through energy output. In theory this could allow astronomers to predict the advancement of an alien civilization the same...
vsbattles.fandom.com
So Fallacy Fallacy at best, and a complete misuse of fallacies at the worst.
That would only be if I simply say "X fallacy" and stop at that. But I go out to explain how it's a fallacy and why you're wrong, so no, I didn't comit that lol
Is there Proof that Y even exists in this situation?
The Universe and World section in the sandbox are there to prove that Y exists, and is separate from X, so obviously.
Fuse hardly ever uses the term universe, and yet we are supposed to believe that Somehow a universe fits in a dimension when it's never implied? Now you use the Term worlds to be universe, but that's also in heavy debate right now. You have not given a clear reason why Universes are housed within dimensions.
Now this is just a stupid arguments -_- (before you call ad hominem, my point is against the argument, not you)
"Never implied" only comes from an argument from ignorance since I already proved in my sandbox how Worlds contain Universes and Dimensions contain words.
Since World = Universe in most cases are questionable at best.
And you'll need evidence for that, by the way, ALONG WITH evidence against what I proved in the sandbox.
You say it's because of
this,
Not really.
Seriously, go read the sandbox and read the entire thing instead of referring to single scans as if the OP's argument is entirely based on that.
If you continue to prove that you didn't read everything, I'll have no choice but to ignore you and just wait for staff.
but since I'm saying that what that is referencing is the other worlds, which I say are planets,
Which I already proved is wrong many times btw
then that wouldn't justify Dimensions encompassing Universes. And even if that is the case, where is the Evidence a Dimension holds more than 1 Universe? The reason behind that isn't even confirmed in translation by your
own admission;
This was, by the way, added later separately as "more supporting evidence", so good job ignoring the rest of the scans and jumping to something that cannot negate your claim AT THE MOMENT
The
first scan is a mistranslation which was already corrected in the OP and even has the correct scan in the sandbox, so great way to show you didn't read anything, dude.
Also, jokes on you, the name of the attack is "Space-Time Leap" (Time Wrap in Katakana), so that bit if the highlighted words also doesn't have any value. 時空間跳躍(タイムワープ) is the Japanese name, it's just that Yenpress likes to translate it weirdly (much like many other names)
The
second scan is based on Velgrynd using the actual dimension leap, but that's ignoring the fact that Dimension Leap doesn't HAVE to be only used for travelling in the separate dimension. It's equivalent to saying an ability that can move between dimensions, space and time can't be used to go from one's home to school. Which is false as that limit is never implied.
Also, by the way, this actually proves your earlier claim of "paralell worlds and other worlds are planets" wrong. Why? Because unlike the scan you used which uses the term "space and time" (which is perfectly fine for a normal read but for vsbw where we like to keep the details as accurate as possible, it's wrong), while the raws say "same space-time".
And this matters cuz here in context it says Velgrynd would be able to travel to the EXACT space time coordinates if she was travelling in the same timeline/parallel world, but since she's traveling to different worlds, it's not possible. That proves that "Other Worlds" are entirely different space time continuums.
The first place Velgrynd set foot in was a rift in faraway space. Exactly where, she didn’t know, but she was unbound by the limitations of time, giving her a chance to face up to herself. That enabled her to fully make her ultimate skill, Cthugha, Lord of the Fire God, her own.
Cthugha included the ability to trace the soul of Ludora. To be exact, it could track down the location of any object its master specified. Using that ability, Velgrynd was able to discover the pieces of her beloved Ludora’s soul, no matter how far away they were—even beyond time and space.
After that, all she needed was a way to “jump” toward them. This was provided by Dimensional Leap—the complete, full combination of Control Dimensions and Trans-Dimensional Leap, made possible only by the powers of an ultimate skill that far transcended most others of its kind.
However, not even this skill could calculate the exact coordinates of the destination, making it impossible to leap to the time and place of one’s choice. That took extra targeting—but if one was leaping within the same timeline, that ceased to be an issue. In fact, Dimensional Leap even let the user travel any distance in an instant, making de facto teleportation a reality.
OTL
__________
Velgrynd took her first leap into the strange space between unknown worlds. There, she found herself unbounded by time and confronted her inner self. By doing so, she made the Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King Cthugha’ completely her own. The Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King Cthugha’ had the power to track Rudra’s soul. Strictly speaking, the effect was to discover an entity once specified. Velgrynd can now find pieces of her beloved Rudra’s soul, no matter how remote or far away they are, even beyond time and space.
All she has to do now is ‘jump’ for it. It is a perfect combination of Spacetime Manipulation and Dimension Leap, a technique that is only possible with the Ultimate Skill’s ever-growing power. However, it was impossible to jump to a specific time and place because the target coordinates could not be determined. In other words, the ‘Spacetime Leap’ is only possible when there is a destination.
However, this does not apply if the time and space are the same. Even ‘Instantaneous Movement’ was possible because it could travel over any distance without regard to time. That is why Velgrynd relied on her own authority to pursue Rudra.
Slimereader
V17C2
___________
ヴェルグリンドが最初に跳ん だのは、どことも知れぬ異界の狭 はざ間まだった。 そこで時間に囚われず、己の 内面と向き合った。
そうする事 で、究極能力アルティメットスキ ル『炎神之王クトゥグア』を、完 全に自分のものとしたのである。 究極能力アルティメットスキ ル『炎神之王クトゥグア』には、 ルドラの〝魂〟を追跡する権能が あった。
厳密に言えば、一度指定 した存在モノを発見するという効 果である。 ヴェルグリンドはこれによっ て、どれだけ離れた場所であって も、時間と空間すら超えた先であ ろうとも、愛するルドラの〝魂〟 の欠片を発見出来るようになっ た。
後は、それを目指して〝跳 ぶ〟だけである。
究極能力アルティメットスキ ルの中でも更に突出して強大に なった権能だからこそ可能な、 『時空間操作』と『次元跳躍』の 合わせ技──完全なる『時空間跳 躍』であった。
ただし、目的の座標地点を割 り出せないので、任意の時と場所 に〝跳ぶ〟事は不可能だった。あ くまでも、目的地があってこそ の、『時空間跳躍』なのである。 もっとも、同一時空上であれ ば、この限りではない。
それこそ、時間も無視してど んな距離でも移動出来る為、『瞬 間移動』すらも可能となっていた のである。
そんな訳でヴェルグリンド は、自らの権能を頼りにルドラを 追い求めた。 そうして最初に辿り着いたの は、まだ文明が芽吹いたばかり の、どこかの星の大陸だった。 赤銅色の肌をした、蛮族の 長。 まだ若き金髪の青年こそが、 ルドラの〝魂〟の欠片を宿す者 だった。
No parallel worlds overlapped each other in the universe, so there were never duplicates of the same existence within the same timeline. In other words, just because she’d gone somewhere once didn’t mean that she could revisit it at any time. She could produce accurate space-time coordinates for herself within a single given timeline in the dimension she existed in—but that was simply the point where she existed at that moment in time, and not even Cthugha’s Dimensional Leap ability let her make precise jumps.
OTL
_______
Velgrynd had traveled through all those worlds. But all of it was not of her own intention, but by what she was guided to. There were different levels of civilization, and Velgrynd had no way of guessing which dimension or timeline she was in. Also, because parallel universes do not overlap, it is impossible for the same entity to overlap on the same timeline. In other words, just because you went there once does not mean you can go to the same place. If the Velgrynd exists in the same dimension at the same time, the exact space-time coordinates can be recognized. However, as there is already a Velgrynd at that time, ‘Spacetime Leap’ cannot be used to jump there, even with the Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King Cthugha.’
Slimereader
V17C2
文明レベルも様々で、それが どの次元で、どの時間軸なのか も、ヴェルグリンドには推し量る 術すべなどない。また、平行世界 が重なり合って存在する事はない ので、同一時間軸に同じ存在が重 複するのは不可能だ。 つまり、一度行ったからと いって、同じ場所に行けるという 訳ではないのである。 ヴェルグリンドが存在する次 元の同一時間帯ならば、正確な時 空間座標を認識出来ている。だが しかし、そこにはその時点のヴェ ルグリンドが存在している訳で、 究極能力アルティメットスキル 『炎神之王クトゥグア』の『時空 間跳躍』でも跳べないのだ。
(Note: Another freedom/limitation is that she can produce the exact space-time coordinates of any other version of her as long as they exist in the same dimension, bypassing the limitations of "same space-time", but she can't make jumps there cuz that would cause an identity overlap)
The
third scan relies on the interpretation that Timelines refer to time eras and not different timelines/universes, but that's false since the Kanji for timelines and time periods is simultaneously and separately mentioned in that same para for different usage (the kanji for timeline is used as an indicator for paralell universes whereas the kanji for Time Period exists separately)
文明レベルも様々で、それが どの次元で、どの時間軸なのか も、ヴェルグリンドには推し量る 術すべなどない。また、平行世界 が重なり合って存在する事はない ので、同一時間軸に同じ存在が重 複するのは不可能だ。 つまり、一度行ったからと いって、同じ場所に行けるという 訳ではないのである。 ヴェルグリンドが存在する次 元の同一時間帯ならば、正確な時 空間座標を認識出来ている。だが しかし、そこにはその時点のヴェ ルグリンドが存在している訳で、 究極能力アルティメットスキル 『炎神之王クトゥグア』の『時空 間跳躍』でも跳べないのだ。
Also, the scans already says how "since parallel worlds don't overlap, two of the same beings can't exist in the same timeline", which proves that timelines = paralell universes here.
Even our official translation staff corrects someone for translating the kanji to "point in time/time period" instead of "timeline":
It is before the Abyss of Hell collapses or beyond/after. i THINK it's before? the kanji used is 先 which can be ahead like "i'm going to go ahead of time [i.e earlier]" but also ahead like ahead in time (i.e after), but the way the sentence is structured makes me think that the correction is...
vsbattles.com
The
4th scan talks about the translation but I already addressed that earlier in this thread when
@PrimeHydra64 brought it up. Lol
The
5th scan talks about how the word Dimension is used as a second choice if the first choice (Universe) is not true, but that... Doesn't really prove anything? (I'm genuinely confused how you concluded that refer to the same thing from this lmao)
If X (Universe) is contained within Y (worlds) and Y contained within Z (dimension), something outside X (Universe) can or cannot be outside Z, but that doesn't price X isn't within Y and Z. Same vice versa, if something is outside Z, it'll also be outside X, but that doesn't price X and Z are the same lmao
But even if you don't take supporting evidence, you claim
Yuuki was viewing Universes where him and Maai was right? Do you know where they were?
They were in 次元の狭間, which is the gap between DIMENSIONS. Not universes, DIMENSIONS.
Wouldn't that just blatantly showcase that the "gap between dimensions" is also the gap between universes? Equivocating Universes and Dimensions? My answer is Yes on that one. Which is also subspace mind you;
So since Yuuki and Maai were viewing Universes in a place known to be the gap between dimensions, wouldn't that be safe to conclude Dimension = Universe?
Also;
Ah, I remember you bringing this argument off-site before, so I'll just use the response I made then since you never refuted it.
Mai's own "gap between Dimensions" is based on "or so I understand" (while simultaneously saying she doesn't understand her present situation). She initially jumped from the Labyrinth into Subspace (Gap between dimensions), then she was caught up in a space-time storm (which transfers you to an "other-dimensional space" (space inside another dimension), so she wasn't really inside the gap between Dimensions (subspace) at that point. She was inside a dimension if anything else, just at the end of space-time (gap between worlds) similar to Velgrynd in V17.
[古城舞衣][マイ・フルキ]は、自分の状況を把握出来ずにいた。
正直言って、今も生きているのが不思議なほどである。
ヴェガと心中するつもりで、どことも知れぬ次元の狭間に跳んだまではいいが、そこで強大無比
の時空嵐に巻き込まれてしまった。そのまま意識を手放した時点で死を覚悟したのだが、何故か
目覚めてしまったのだ。 V22C3
現在地の座標が不明なのだから、今のマイに打つ手はなかった。
誤魔化すのは無理だと、マイも諦めた。気持ちを切り替えて、状況を整理しようと周囲に視線を
巡らせる。
理解出来たのは、マイ達は次元の狭間に漂っているままだということ。
The now-abandoned Floor 30 was currently visible from the refuge zone connected to it. If left alone, it would be swallowed up by some other world in time, shot far away to parts unknown. Phase fluctuations were a constant occurrence in subspace; they were completely unpredictable, and if caught up in one, there was no way to predict what other dimensional space you’d be sent to. The very flow of time might be distorted at your destination. Thus, whether you mastered Dominate Space or not, it simply wasn’t realistic to return to the same place and time you were thrown from. Velgrynd pulled it off, but it required a culmination of miracles and coincidences working in her favor.
So basically
1. She doesn't know or understand what happened, what her current situation is, what the coordinates of her current location are, etc etc.
2. She claims she's in the gap between Dimensions but that's just what she understands, which is understandable since the last place she was in before getting BFRed here was the gap between Dimensions (subspace).
3. Space-Time storms (phase fluctuations) in subspace transfer you to an "other dimensional space" (space inside another dimension). And going by the fact that she's in the gap between worlds (with worlds being inside dimensions as proven in my sandbox), that's a logical conclusion that she's inside the world gap.
As for why she observed Universes, note that it was called both a world and a universe. And there's another entire section in the Universe heading of the sandbox to explain this. So again, go read the actual thing.
It even talks about destruction not being just "universal" in scale, but "multidimensional collapse" would be unavoidable, insinuating the next step up from universal destruction is Multi-Dimensional collapse, not just a singular dimensional collapse or multi-universal collapse.
Uh, no, it's not just "a next step". Just because I say "this attack won't just destroy the planet, but the entire multiverse" doesn't make planets universal lmao. Besides, it already confirms that Luvelage can destroy all worlds across all dimensions (with worlds containing universes), so it's nothing surprising that the jump is extraordinary.
《持久戦に持ち込めば勝利確定だったのですが、こうなるとルヴェルジェの攻撃による影響規模が、全次元の 遍(あまね)く世界にまで及びそうですね》
When has dimension referred to anything different? Other that small isolated spaces?
Whenever it's not referring to personal dimensions created by different characters other than Veldanava, duh. Unless you take headcanons and say all dimensions are small spaces lmao
Because they will let you know what type of dimension it is, but in the version you are using, I'm saying Dimension = Universe in these cases, not in all.
Then look at the sandbox, cuz the scans used there refer to different things as highlighted in each section lol
So has the term "dimension" in the situations you are referring to, implied something bigger than universes?
Via what? The entire mention of "weak worlds" is connected to being part of the over arching term "other worlds" being the places that velgrynd leaped into. So what context/evidence would support them being universes if/when my interpretation is accepted.
Same as above
You haven't even defined what type of dimensions that zalario was destroying or at the bare minimum proven it would be these spaces that encompass universes.
I don't need to, since the default assumption of what a dimension is, is container of worlds as NATURALLY created by Veldanava. It's your job to prove that those dimensions refer to specific personal dimensions when the context doesn't suggest otherwise, lol
Why would he? Again, the intention should be brought up since if that is obvious he spent billions of years to do something, why would he have time to just destroy universes/dimensions?
To destroy other dimensions, duh. I don't need to prove "he doesn't go outside the otherworld" when he destroyed structures outside it lmao
Unless you're saying he magically can destroy something at a 2-C distance away from him, which doesn't change anything either.
Stop using a fallacy you don't understand when to use. I'm not equivocating anything in the quoted lines nor even prior regarding those lines.
My response is the same as last time when you said I was using them wrong.
On your part. Since the only way that Zalario would have the time to partake in these excursions is if he wasn't stuck in a place for 10 billion of years.
And you'd have to prove that he was stuck at the same place. That's your burdon, since I for my part already proved he went outside to destroy Dimensions cuz of the blatant dimension destroying statement.
So if He did that prior, why is it never spoken of?
A thing called narrative convenience. The author doesn't need to include every single detail of every side character lmao
Again, his "dimension destroying" Statement never gets clarified nor does it have any context to clear up any misunderstanding about it.
Where, in fact, it actually does but you're simply failing to understand that.
Then prove that the dimensions that Zalario destroys, are the dimensions that you say contain universes. Also, I'd like to just give this understanding out here, the best feat from rimuru to combat the strongest people in the verse, Ivarage and Veldanava, was an attack that was stated to be able to destroy "multiple universes"
Same as the part above where you claimed I need to prove those dimensions are universal in size.
And no, Ivarage's and Veldanava's attacks can destroy ALL worlds across all dimensions lmao (statement given above).
So why would Zalario, a being significantly weaker and inferior to Vol 23 Rimuru, Veldanava and Ivarage (or Le Verge the combination), have a much better feat than the characters mentioned.
Same as above. Also because cardinal world and everything related to it massively up scales everything else, as far as going to say that it surpassed entire dimensions in terms of hardness to destroy. (Statement given above in this reply).
Where is Rimuru or Ivarage's Dimension destroying feat? How come no one else in the Entire series has gotten a dimension destroying feat when multiple characters are implied much stronger than Zalario?
Refer to the above feat of Ivarage (or Luvelage's) attacks. And also because most of the cast doesn't go outside the cardinal world lmfao
How can you forget the narrative plot so much as to ask these questions?
What context? You admit it yourself that the Breakdown Nostalgia is an AP feat, meaning Solar system Ap which multiple characters would be weaker than as they would be weaker to Velgrynd. So are you going to attack the core of the argument, or circumvent it and dodge to point enitrely?
It's not dodging the point, but actually going through context instead of ignoring it unlike. Comparing an AP feat to other character's DC feat and calling an error on that is the same as asking "why can't a bullet erase an entire wall from existence instead of just penetrating it".
This is such a bad-faith argument, or you didn't read my refutation.
Introduction Good morning/evening everyone, hope ya'll are doing fine. Considering Volume 22 has added some more context to what we thought before, I decided to try a revision to get the verse back to Tier 2 in general. As always, avoid any toxic behavior or derailing! Also, don't start...
vsbattles.com
Ah, I get what you mean now, my bad at this particular part.
Still, it doesn't change much. Why? Cuz the "here, the lifespan of the planet/star has ended" isn't actually referring to how Feldway destroyed the Universe, but what "beyond time and space" is as a place. And that's natural, it's a place in a future so far that it's beyond time (outside the timeline), so naturally the lifespan at that point would end naturally, whether Feldway destroyed the Universe or not.
What matters is the later where Ciel says the universe was spefically destroyed by Feldway (yet EVEN THEN the world wasn't destroyed) proving world as a structure > universe and thus 2-C.
In another thread, the term "timeline" is called to questioning what it can mean, and "era of time" hasn't been refuted. Even then, if the timeline was gone, how did Rimuru go BACK IN TIME, to a timeline that doesn't exist anymore.
You can't really bring arguments from another thread that hasn't even been accepted here. Plus I already gave my reply in that thread on how Fuse uses the term, and that I won't be replying further since it'll just be an argument from repetition. So really, that means nothing here.
As for the latter, don't pretend as if Hyper time wasn't ever a concept in fiction at all. As clarified in the OP, there are some statements that may be used to get tier 1, but we aren't considering tier 1 here as this CRT is ONLY about tier 2.
That still doesn't mean those statements can be ignored as nonsense though.
I know the argument you are going to make, but saying there is a hypertimeline, but this is never even implied anywhere in the verse, strictly headcanon loose interpretation of the narrative.
Not really? The very fact that a character can go from a point where the timeline has been destroyed to where it hasn't implies a hypertimeline.
Besides, there are terms like Hyper space time vibrations and time before the concept of time, so really, Hypertime isn't a rare thing in tensura or an impossible thing that isn't implied by the narrative.
流石は元〝始原の七天使〟だけあって、全員が〝停止世界〟の影響を受けていない。時間の概念がなかった
時代から、ヴェルダナーヴァの手足となって働いていたのだから、それも当然の話だった。
This is just straight up lies, Space and time never ceased to Exist at the "end of space and time"
Let show some quotes which prove time and space still exist, All Otl vol 21 Epilogue
End of time and space imply the "END" of it, not beyond it. If I'm at the end of the road, I'm not on another road or on grass. If I'm at he end of the rope, I'm not hovering in mid air or stop touching the rope.
Being at the End of something implies that thing is still there to be at the end of. End of a youtube video, the video is still there, there's just no more video, but you can go back in the video if you want. It's the exact same premise.
A place where time and space intersected, sounds like they both still exist. "IN THE DISTANT FUTURE" wow, that means time must exist in order for a future to. Right? Or is that a false equivalence too?
Time isn't flowing, but it never says it doesn't exist anymore, just that it ceased movement.
Far reaches of both space and time require both those things to exist.
How can you wander around in something that doesn't exist?
Do I even have to explain, they can go back to the past, or back in time, in a place where time doesn't exist? Make this make sense for me.
Space-time coordinates still exist in order to go back in time.
Rimuru was confirmed to be in subspace the entire time. Same place Maai, Vega and Velgrynd were sent to. You know the crazy part? Subspace has both space and time.
Which is stated right after this;
Cuh Like are High 1-A+ common these days like those yin tian shen tian character have high 1-A+ status already ( ) I hate this kind of verse, they are full of hyperbole and metaphor which are completely abused, and which ultimately results in something shaky.
vsbattles.com
Which is also in the same chapter as this;
And considering it's a "space between worlds" when Velgrynd was sent to it, and a rift "between dimensions" where movement is possible, and stated to be "empty space" and also things are in the distant;
So I mean, how much more evidence do I need, that Rimuru didn't end up in a place where time and space doesn't exist?
All this just because you fail to understand how hypertimelines work?
Lmao
All of this just to get denied if your claims by two statements by proving hyper time is a thing:
Ciel said this in the most matter-of-fact tone. What? Go back to the past? We can just pop on back and defeat him?! I didn’t see how this was remotely possible. Maybe Chloe could leap through time and read memories from the future, but that skill only gave her the ability to return to her past self, and it certainly wasn’t available if time itself was stopped. Here at the End of Space and Time where no time flowed, I was fairly sure that not even Chloe could return to the past.
OTL V21Epilogue
Anyway, as I listened to Ciel’s story, I came to understand exactly what I could do now as we prepared for the future. I felt I was kind of in a desperate situation, but there was also plenty of time to work with—or really, time wasn’t flowing at all, so it was actually zero time, not plenty of it. I was fine either way, though. The whole thing was pretty strange.
OTL V21Epilogue
Chloe's time travel couldn't work, why? Because time didn't flow. Yet Rimuru could still time travel back. Why? The only option is a hypertimeline lmao
Why is it the case when you can just grab 1 time that world wasn't referencing the planet itself, that you have to use it to refute claims and arguments about something entirely different? What does that quote have anything to do with other worlds?
Because it isn't just one time it's used a such. Duh.
Every scan I used in the sandbox talks about worlds as something that contains Universes or at least not a planet. Your headcanon claims of worlds being planets is something entirely separate from that.
By your logic planets branch, which just proves how biased your claim is along with the lack of extraordinary evidence from you.
Ah yes, cause from what I found, it's just vibration. That has nothing to do with an ontological concept.
For hyper Space-Time vibrations to exist, hyper space time just exist as well. That's as simple as "for space to distort, there must be space that can be distorted to begin with" lol
Just cause you claim it's a false equivalence or assumptions, doesn't mean it's true. You've yet to directly attack the evidence of my points.
Quoting a single line that says X is fallacy and saying "you didn't actually address my argument" informing the surrounding statements of that statement isn't the best way to go lmao.
Ok, so in other dimensions, what laws of physics are different? Cause if they were truly different, why didn't the novel state the difference in physics? Instead of focusing on strength of things or how different civilizations are?
Because it doesn't need to?
It's not a battleboarding fiction lmao
The author has absolutely no need to apply to our specific powerscaling standards nor go out of his way to detail absolutely everything.
Otherwise sure, let's allows Suggsverse on vsbw again cuz it's still a novel cuz it's easier to scale as it applies our specific powerscaling terminologies.
All that's saying, is it's difference in strength is isolated from other dimensions. This isn't comparing the dimensions themselves but could be comparing whats in the dimensions.
Like the planets. Again, a solar system AP attack is enough to threaten the Cardinal world, so if you want to say dimensions have solar system Durability, we can do so.
That's a pure hypothetical from you that you need to prove ¯\
(ツ)/¯
Because my job of proving my point only goes as far as I did prove it.
If a statement says "X destroyed the house" we don't by default assume it only refers to the furniture inside the house and not the house itself, UNLESS explicitly proven otherwise.
I was attacked for Using Otl, now I'm attacked for using Slime Reader more? Why does it matter when both are accepted. I was using Slime reader because people bashed me for using Otl, and confirming its the wrong translation is just proving why I'm using this so I'm not berated for doing so.
Maybe because you specifically use OTL or slimereader respectively in cases that benefit your interpretation? Try not to do that and instead just quote both at the same time like I do.
And Again, this isn't referring to the same laws, so I really don't care about false equivalences.
And you'll again have to prove that it isn't referring to the same Laws lmao. Because otherwise the term remains the same; "laws", both in Japanese and in English.
Established what kind of laws? laws of physics? or rules? Let's get the specifics if you're going to use just raw quotes.
All. Do we know someone else who established them? No, so by default we assume it's all since all of them are mentioned. Worlds having their own unique physical laws and other laws is mentioned, and that's as far as the proof is repaired.
Also, its not branched. Also 派生 means derivation, jisho gives the definition clearly;
jisho.org
And did you read what that very page said?
Derivation (linguistics)In linguistics, derivation is the process of forming a new word on the basis of an existing word, e.g. happi-ness and un-happy from happy, or determination from determine. Derivation stands in contrast to the process of inflection, which uses another kind of affix in order to form grammatical variants of the same word, as with determine/determine-s/determin-ing/determin-ed. Generally speaking, inflection applies to all members of a part of speech (e.g.
Applying that to worlds, it'll be a world that's based on a previously existing world. Pretty much what branching parallel worlds are.
Also, be sure to give this a read:
ja.wiktionary.org
Listen to the pronunciation, view english meanings, stroke order diagrams and conjugations for 派生 (hasei).
www.tanoshiijapanese.com
to take, receive, or obtain especially from a specified source; to obtain (a chemical substance) actually or theoretically from a parent substance; infer, deduce… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
1. to get something from something else: 2. If a word or language is derived…
dictionary.cambridge.org
The word and meaning is the same, but I'm just hoping that multiple dictionaries will help you actually understand the term and not equate it to weird conclusion like "imitate" lol
All that means, is an imitation. Branching, I see no logical reasoning to have that mean such. Even if we take translators telling us, Cardinal world is a planet, as no one has yet refuted here.
Rather than no one refuting the last bit here, it's more so that everyone has proved otherwise yet you fail to admit it while quoting more and more statements outta context.
The space, being the atmosphere around him
Atmosoehre exists in the surrounding space, so duh
it also quite literally explains that in semi-spiritual worlds, the space "WAS NOT" filled with magicules. Which was when he got to the cardinal world.
Ever wondered what a reverse conclusion process is? If cardinal world's space is not filled with Magicules, that simply means the Spiritual world's space is to even be a able to make that comparison.
The point is that Magicules exist in space in any world they exist in, not "on planets".
Did you NOT read your own scans? All this means is the air/atmosphere wasn't packed with magicules since it wasn't highly concentrated.
Atmosphere exists in space so I don't see how anything of that sort negates my point.
Refute my evidence of other worlds being planets then.
I already did. You failing to comprehend those =/= not my fault ¯\
(ツ)/¯
If you still wanna argue on that, sure, we'll have to agree to disagree and let the staff judge.
Cause an Interstellar world is definitely not a universe.
A world containing a civilization that reached stellar inside it doesn't mean it's not a universe lmao
What should the author call it them? Interstellar Universe? It's not a battleboarding fiction lol
Also Cardinal world being blatantly called a planet,
Ah yes, let's again throw narrative convenience outta the window and also forget statements like "Universe of the Cardinal World/Cardinal World's Universe", and let's also forget Yuuki comparing cardinal world to a universe or world and saying that isn't the cardinal world cuz the energy is different, and let's also forget that the Cardinal world has its own laws of physics (I already quoted the statement in my earlier reply) and ONLY FOCUS ON STATEMENTS THAT ARE THERE DUE TO NARRATIVE CONVENIENCE :d
and other words being the derivatives to the cardinal world, is all the proof I need.
Worlds*
And they aren't, though. Other Worlds are exactly what isn't derived from the cardinal world, that's why they are called "other worlds" to begin with.
Sure, Veldanava directly created the Cardinal world first, but that doesn't mean he created just that. He created many worlds, and those worlds that are separate from the cardinal world are called "other worlds".
So an AP feat that referred to the scope of the attack, able to swallow the solar system, and you claim that's not DC? Even if it was Ap, Velgrynd was stated to not be at Solar system level ap by your own admission.
AP doesn't have a set size, but that doesn't mean we can compare it to DC in its range either. The fact that the solar system was destroyed just by AP alone simply shows how high the AP was.
Also, let's ignore the fact that the attack was enclosed in barriers and that the barriers don't need to be infinite, shall we?
I could show you the Cardinal world being called a planet, and I did, and you'd still argue it isn't
Because narrative convenience matters, duh
You ignoring any context just to support your claim isn't my fault -_-
. I could show you the raw kanji means derivative which means imitation, and you still would argue against it. I Showed evidence of an other world being interstellar which no universe can do, and you still argued against it
A already addressed above.
Let's not play a game that you, by your own logic, would fall into.
I'm already not playing that from the start, but let's also not play a game where we ignore narrative context and convenience just for the sake of our claims, shall we?
That could simply be the universe that houses the Cardinal world, where does it explicitly stated the cardinal world?
Let me ask you, have you ever heard of a phrase "chair of the leg" without it being a grammar error?
At this point I'm not sure if you know how even English works. I'm not even native speaker yet I have to to explain toach you these things...
Where did he explicitly state something about the cardinal world?
『違うと思うぜ。アレは派生世界なんだと思う。光球の発生から終焉まで、全てマチマチだし
ね』
観測出来るエネルギー量から考えても、ここで観測可能な光球はユウキ達がいた世界とは無縁の
場所だろうと思われた。
Though, I think if you ignore the context, you could still argue that "the world Yuuki and the others came from" isn't the cardinal world but their original world.
But that again is only if you ignore the context. Because Laplace is also there, and Laplace all in all belongs only to the cardinal world. So "the world the others came from" can only be true if it's referring to the cardinal world, as that's the common world all three of them have.
You brought a few points, that never reference the cardinal world, are we serious here? Why does any of your "evidence" even remotely apply to the cardinal world? They can reference the universe/dimension they are from. If the term "cardinal world" isn't used, how do you even know they are referencing that, that is a blatant assumption with no context to support that. Sagan Standard
Once again, you not seeing the context when it's there is not my burden lmao
He has always used Other worlds to refer to construct in other dimensions.
And that is something I never denied. I only denied your point of dimension = universe as far as this line goes
Always. And he lists off planetary properties regarding those worlds.
An author deciding to only focus on the earth and not the observable universe and the endlessly many planets it has doesn't mean the observable universe suddenly ceases to exist, lol
He has always used Cardinal world to refer to the planet that the entire series takes place vol 17 and beyond when it became a thing. It even blatantly calls it such in vol 18. You have 0 evidence that the cardinal world refers to anything other than a universe, unless you assume they are talking about the cardinal world. So unless you can point to an instance of the term "Cardinal world" in a situation where it's implied to be something other than Earth or the planet, show us this now.
Same as above.
I don't really see any merrit in replying to the last bit of ranting due to the lack of any merrit in doing so. You're free to believe whatever you like regarding that, it won't change my stand from my own perspective. ¯\
(ツ)/¯
Anyways, this sure was a long yap. Took about 3 hours I guess, the longest time taken as if yet.
(any help to fix this would be great).
).
and that i did not violate any rules here (accidentaly).
)
