The Mah-vel Unfawking Thread Step Three: I Came Back with Milk

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Lmao, and just because of that are we going to head canon absolutely everything as you're? That's why we have things as 1-A Iron Man, because we're just ignoring what the source material says, and on top of that we're mixing everything as it is.

Most 1-As exist duo to scaling it's irrelevant here, some of those 1-As are based on statements sayign they fough on equal footing or hurt X 1-A character. It's not ignoring the source material, if the source doesn't put a limit to it why should we? If a character only has multiple feats of tanking tier 7 explosions without even flinching does that stop the character from scaling to tier 6 through other means?

Sure, the context of who said what matters, but the intentionality of the writer and the narrative matters more.

We just had a huge discussion about how the images are more important than the narrative/context.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

but the intentionality of the writer and the narrative matters more.

No, it really doesn't. If Stan Lee had said that Iron Man's suits were made of custard, would we have to acknowledge that?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Most 1-As exist duo to scaling it's irrelevant here, some of those 1-As are based on statements sayign they fough on equal footing or hurt X 1-A character.

And that's exactly why that scaling sucks and why should, and will be fixed (if enough organization happens) soon.

It's not ignoring the source material, if the source doesn't put a limit to it why should we? If a character only has multiple feats of tanking tier 7 explosions without even flinching does that stop the character from scaling to tier 6 through other means?

What about if you checked if the writer of that story threats the other character as a Tier 6? That's how it should be, not because, let's say, Hulk, has 1-A feats in one book, means that he'll be it in every other.

We just had a huge discussion about how the images are more important than the narrative/context.

No? You guys just said "I don't like it because it wasn't a big enough explosion" even when the writer clearly had the intention of being a real moon with the same mass.
If you want to discuss that the statement doesn't say that, do it, I don't care about that, but if the discussion is about "visual vs shat the comic says", then I'm in.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

And that's exactly why that scaling sucks and why should, and will be fixed (if enough organization happens) soon.

Not what we were discussing, that's for a future discussion, a very hard one as far as I know.

What about if you checked if the writer of that story threats the other character as a Tier 6? That's how it should be, not because, let's say, Hulk, has 1-A feats in one book, means that he'll be it in every other.

Are you really expecting writers to aside from caring about the main character also caring enough to add feats from the villain/secundary characters? It's really normal for secundary/side characters to have no feat at all aside from scaling to the main character, a lot of times even when there is something resembling a feat might not even be quantifiable, and the normal "Laser guns" we see everywhere which are technology which we have little to no information about which tells us nothing about potency ect how would we know X character is or not treated as X tier if we are given no specific information? A lot of times characters have planetary and above feats through punches and the next issue made by the same writer they are fighting some random dudes in a street on earth and doing little to no damage to the surrounding is that character being treated at a different level?

No? You guys just said "I don't like it because it wasn't a big enough explosion" even when the writer clearly had the intention of being a real moon with the same mass.
If you want to discuss that the statement doesn't say that, do it, I don't care about that, but if the discussion is about "visual vs shat the comic says", then I'm in.

"You guys" don't know about you but I gave a comment about how I think the narrative matters more than images and that feat was deemed unusable because others had a different opinion, I accept it even if I don't like it.

Still regarding the visuals vs narrative of the moon size I don't know if it applies here but I recently saw an interesting post that gave me a better understanding and might be relevant to this situation.
On X/Twitter a post from the current writer from the avengers comic run, Farid was basically given a script saying "they are fighting back to back" and she made her interpretation of that.


I even asked if it's normally like that and the artist said it was common to leave the visuals to the artist while telling them minimum details of the scene.

If this happened the same here it's very possible for Narrative and the Visuals to crash because they are different interpretations on the very same scene just like how 2 authors often contradict each other because of their interpretation.

Not what I said, my comment is about giving priority to the narrative rather than the art in cases of doubt like this one. If the narrative supports it being bigger than the art then the narrative takes priority, the same if the explosion is bigger than what the narrative suggests.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Fantastic Four 2025 has a new statement of Johnny being able to burn away the entire Earth's atmosphere and kill everyone on Earth, which is a 6-A feat.

Sue also got a statement of blocking out all sunlight across Earth and a showcase to back it up

 

[The_Impress]

Fantastic Four 2025 has a new statement of Johnny being able to burn away the entire Earth's atmosphere and kill everyone on Earth, which is a 6-A feat.

Sue also got a statement of blocking out all sunlight across Earth and a showcase to back it up

Both aren't relevant to this thread.

I'll try to get back to this in the coming weeks hopefully.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Both aren't relevant to this thread.

I'll try to get back to this in the coming weeks hopefully.

I mean, maybe they could be scalable to other low heralds?

 

[PresentTrunks]

Do you only want 5-B feats, or are lesser Tier 5 feats also acceptable?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Do you only want 5-B feats, or are lesser Tier 5 feats also acceptable?

This thread is about finding something to scale shoot any feat you have and let's see what sticks. It should be 5-B feats from characters who currently scale to 5-B.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it should be reliable feats that have been or can be calciuated. The feats do not have to be exactly 5-B.

 

[The_Impress]

Do you only want 5-B feats, or are lesser Tier 5 feats also acceptable?

lower are acceptable, or higher

It should be 5-B feats from characters who currently scale to 5-B.

nu, not necessarily, tier retention isn't the sole objective

I mean, maybe they could be scalable to other low heralds?

we aren't doing low heralds here, we're doing high bruiser :v

5-B is the high bruiser tier

 

[Rex_Eckles]

lower are acceptable, or higher

nu, not necessarily, tier retention isn't the sole objective

we aren't doing low heralds here, we're doing high bruiser :v

5-B is the high bruiser tier

What? I thought 5-B used to be the low-herald tier?

 

[The_Impress]

Low Heralds are 4-B, they mean like, Nova n shit.

Anyways naw, variability means that you either scale to the top value or not. Unless there is an explicit, tangible metric, you don't know what a character is holding back to at a given instance.

So variable characters like Human Torch and Invisible Woman can only be used to scale for their high end values if they are said high ends explicitly.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Low Heralds are 4-B, they mean like, Nova n shit.

Anyways naw, variability means that you either scale to the top value or not. Unless there is an explicit, tangible metric, you don't know what a character is holding back to at a given instance.

So variable characters like Human Torch and Invisible Woman can only be used to scale for their high end values if they are said high ends explicitly.

And here I thought Thing was a low herald tier.

 

[The_Impress]

I mean that is a proposal for his consistency yeah, we have always treated him < Heralds on the wiki though

anyways

 

[Rex_Eckles]

What tier is Quasar among Marvel characters? He's got some things.

 

[The_Impress]

quasar probably hits herald iirc

 

[The_Impress]

Anyways until the time I'm free, can anyone compile the feats we didn't address/accepted as scaleable so far?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

quasar probably hits herald iirc

Alright nevermind.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Anyways until the time I'm free, can anyone compile the feats we didn't address/accepted as scaleable so far?

Wouldn't we want to compile the feats that weren't rejected?

 

[The_Impress]

Wouldn't we want to compile the feats that weren't rejected?

eh, up to you, but id say no

 

[Rex_Eckles]

eh, up to you, but id say no

Deep breath I'll see what I can do.

 

[Antvasima]

Why isn't a list of feats that haven't been rejected a good idea?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alrighty, after digging through this thread, here's what I found:

• Grey Hulk Asteroid (I'm listing it here, you can't stop me) - High 5-A
• Classic Miss Marvel villain can burn the world - probably High 6-A
• Nova destroys an Empire State Building-sized asteroid - I dunno, maybe Low 7-C
• Blue Marvel (he has a variable tier) can split the moon - High 6-A
• Magneto makes a worldwide EMP or something - I have no idea
• Magneto does it again, or something - who knows
• Magneto moves giant metal object very fast - probably pretty strong
• Miss Marvel saves the Earth from destruction - 5-B
  • one of her foes almost destroyed the Earth
  • A crystal can wipe out half the Earth - Low 5-B
  • It can also vaporize a chunk of the Earth - probably 6-A or High 6-A
  • Another destroy planet statement
• There's a laser cannon that can cause planetary implosion - It could be 5-B, maybe lower, it depends on context
• Mindless Ones can damage ship that can withstand 200 Megaton meteor impacts - 7-A
• Gladiator easily destroys a planet - 5-B

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Alrighty, after digging through this thread, here's what I found:

• Grey Hulk Asteroid (I'm listing it here, you can't stop me) - High 5-A

that feat has many problems are got rejected

• Classic Miss Marvel villain can burn the world - probably High 6-A
• Nova destroys an Empire State Building-sized asteroid - I dunno, maybe Low 7-C
• Blue Marvel (he has a variable tier) can split the moon - High 6-A

• Magneto makes a worldwide EMP or something - I have no idea

nothing ap wise just his Magentism power.

• Magneto does it again, or something - who knows
• Magneto moves giant metal object very fast - probably pretty strong

not aplicable since magneto power does not has UES so on one scales to him.

• Gladiator easily destroys a planet - 5-B

he has variable power so can`t be used.

 

[ObberGobb]

Yeah we can't use any feats from characters who have an end higher than 5-B. Like both Gladiator and Blue Marvel are full on Heralds, so far stronger than anyone we are talking about here.

 

[ObberGobb]

Question: if we have a few 5-B feats that are good on their own, would that be enough to establish that most High Tiers can reasonably scale to the 5-B feats of Variable High Tiers like Human Torch? Like if we find a decent number of 5-B feats but not enough to scale the tier to 5-B on their own, would the other 5-B feats that have been deemed not good enough to scale off of be good enough supporting evidence to provide consistency? Idk if that made sense

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah we can't use any feats from characters who have an end higher than 5-B. Like both Gladiator and Blue Marvel are full on Heralds, so far stronger than anyone we are talking about here.

Isn't Blue Marvel on the same level as base Doctor Doom?

 

[ObberGobb]

Isn't Blue Marvel on the same level as base Doctor Doom?

I don't think so. Imo he's been very consistently shown to be a Herald Tier character, and the creator said: "As long as I'm writing the character, he won't be so strong that he makes other characters look foolish. He is just in the same league as the Hulk, Thor, Superman, Sentry, Orion, J'onn J'onzz, etc. He's NOT above them."

 

[Eseseso]

I don't think so. Imo he's been very consistently shown to be a Herald Tier character, and the creator said: "As long as I'm writing the character, he won't be so strong that he makes other characters look foolish. He is just in the same league as the Hulk, Thor, Superman, Sentry, Orion, J'onn J'onzz, etc. He's NOT above them."

In the 2020 Dr Doom series, Doom one-shots Blue Marvel with a magic blast (yes his magic is consistently well above his base but this would put it at Herald Tier)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Fine. Here:

• Classic Miss Marvel villain can burn the world - probably High 6-A
• Nova destroys an Empire State Building-sized asteroid - I dunno, maybe Low 7-C
• Miss Marvel saves the Earth from destruction - 5-B
  • one of her foes almost destroyed the Earth
  • A crystal can wipe out half the Earth - Low 5-B
  • It can also vaporize a chunk of the Earth - probably 6-A or High 6-A
  • Another destroy planet statement
• There's a laser cannon that can cause planetary implosion - It could be 5-B, maybe lower, it depends on context
• Mindless Ones can damage ship that can withstand 200 Megaton meteor impacts - 7-A

How's that?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

• Miss Marvel saves the Earth from destruction - 5-B
  • one of her foes almost destroyed the Earth
  • A crystal can wipe out half the Earth - Low 5-B
  • It can also vaporize a chunk of the Earth - probably 6-A or High 6-A
  • Another destroy planet statement

It says it's actually a hunk of the planet which would would be much likely low 5-B. All of those were about the same feat which is as the feat bellow a villain that gives energy to a carvorite crystal that would explode and destroy the planet.

• There's a laser cannon that can cause planetary implosion - It could be 5-B, maybe lower, it depends on context

It's not a laser cannon, it's a laser that was energizing a carvorite crystal that would exploded.

Carvorite tier 5 by 2 different writers in completely different comics both Carol's solo runs decades apart.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It says it's actually a hunk of the planet which would would be much likely low 5-B. All of those were about the same feat which is as the feat bellow a villain that gives energy to a carvorite crystal that would explode and destroy the planet.

It's not a laser cannon, it's a laser that was energizing a carvorite crystal that would exploded.

Carvorite tier 5 by 2 different writers in completely different comics both Carol's solo runs decades apart.

My bad, anyways that's pretty good.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alright, some more feats that (maybe) should be discussed:

• Blastaar tanks portion of Big Bang - calced a long time ago as High 6-A 5-C, probably flawed or something
• Iron Family push giant thing - 5-A, needs evaluation
• Some big ship crashes, no clue if anyone scales to it - 7-B
• Havok creates crater - 8-A

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Alright, some more feats that (maybe) should be discussed:

• Blastaar tanks portion of Big Bang - calced a long time ago as High 6-A, probably flawed or something

Actually that calc is 44 exatons which is 5-C

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Actually that calc is 44 exatons which is 5-C

I think this thread is deteriorating my reading comprehension.

 

[Eseseso]

Are we gonna also remove Low 1-C from Heralds now or wait for a future thread?

 

[ObberGobb]

That will be a later thread

 

[The_Impress]

Fine. Here:

• Classic Miss Marvel villain can burn the world - probably High 6-A

Flowery language

• Nova destroys an Empire State Building-sized asteroid - I dunno, maybe Low 7-C

k

• Miss Marvel saves the Earth from destruction - 5-B

Scan means zlich

• one of her foes almost destroyed the Earth
• A crystal can wipe out half the Earth - Low 5-B
• It can also vaporize a chunk of the Earth - probably 6-A or High 6-A
• Another destroy planet statement
• There's a laser cannon that can cause planetary implosion - It could be 5-B, maybe lower, it depends on context

Where does she tank this? What's the scan for that?

• Mindless Ones can damage ship that can withstand 200 Megaton meteor impacts - 7-A

How's that?

Also throw in the Mandarin feat probably.

Ms. Marvel does state in a Kurt Busiek(?) run at some point that she purposely holds back unless there is a life or death situation. In general I always think she's kinda... downplayed as she is currently?

Alright, some more feats that (maybe) should be discussed:

• Blastaar tanks portion of Big Bang - calced a long time ago as High 6-A 5-C, probably flawed or something

Calc creator says the calc is bullshit because it's built on assumptions that the big bang model in the comic is the exact same as the one she uses.

• Iron Family push giant thing - 5-A, needs evaluation

Arno is probably 3-C.

In general this is a super weird feat because of how space works.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Where does she tank this? What's the scan for that?

Ask @Suigetsuhyugs, they brought it up.

Also throw in the Mandarin feat probably.

What Mandarin feat?