Changes to speed in toilet bound hanako-kun verse

[Flickfanlol]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hanako-san#Hakujoudai's_Cloak
Hanako's cloak form includes dodging Kou's lightning as a speed feat, but I think this is an incorrect assessment.
In the source given (), the lightning is shown to hit Hanako on the bottom left panel.

Only after being hit, does Hanako move out of the way with no problems because of the reason stated that the lightning won't work on him here:

Furthermore, this incorrect feat is used to scale Teru at massively hypersonic+: "Should be comparable to Hanako with his Hakujoudai Cloak. Just like Minamoto Kou, his attacks are lightning." Having lightning attacks does not make one at the same speed as lightning. Just like how shooting as laser gun doesn't make some light speed. Then this is used to incorrectly scale Akane as massively hypersonic+ because he can dodge Teru's attacks. This scaling is further used to justify base Hanako being massively hypersonic: "Could move and swipe Akane's clock faster than Akane could react in his supernatural form."

In general, all the characters are still around the same level, but considering scenes like this where a human toddler dodges Tsukasa who speed blitzed Akane.

The same Akane who's speedy enough to narrowly dodge Teru's attacks.

Teru who dodged Hanako's attacks

I can't pull much to go off of when it comes reaction speed off the top of my head, but there is this one scene I can scale the everyone is around similar reaction speed to:
Hanako drops the chandelier and Akane goes to freeze it. The notable thing here is that Akane exclusively uses the time freezing watch by holding it out, meaning he would've done that in the time allotted. So I'd just need to know how fast chandeliers fall.

Hakubo is also much faster than the watch and how fast the chandelier fell as seen here:

I have no clue how heavy that chandelier is, so I'm going to use a video of a chandelier falling to try to calculate this. This video at 2:48
The chandelier is moving fast, but a decently quick human, like athletic human speed I think, could react to it. So I think the characters are mainly at athletic human as base speed as opposed to massively hypersonic+

Please tell me if I made any mistakes here. This is my first content revision.

 

[DavidTPPM]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hanako-san#Hakujoudai's_Cloak
Hanako's cloak form includes dodging Kou's lightning as a speed feat, but I think this is an incorrect assessment.
In the source given (), the lightning is shown to hit Hanako on the bottom left panel.

Only after being hit, does Hanako move out of the way with no problems because of the reason stated that the lightning won't work on him here:

The lightning isn't shown to hit Hanako it's shown to get very close to him. The lightning not working could also be specifically meant to be because it can't hit Hanako given he stat-dwarfs Kou.

I mean since yk, regardless of your interpretation of whether it can hurt Hanako, he visibly perception-blitzed Kou in this very scene.

In general, all the characters are still around the same level, but considering scenes like this where a human toddler dodges Tsukasa who speed blitzed Akane.

This is a comedic scene not meant to represent the power of these characters. Unless you want to either
A) upscale toddler Nene to Tsukasas level despite Tsukasa being a top tier in the verse.

Or

B) You want to downgrade Tsukasa and as a result effectively the entire verse to below average human level, including several adult humans and characters who perform blatantly superhuman feats.

I can't pull much to go off of when it comes reaction speed off the top of my head, but there is this one scene I can scale the everyone is around similar reaction speed to:
Hanako drops the chandelier and Akane goes to freeze it. The notable thing here is that Akane exclusively uses the time freezing watch by holding it out, meaning he would've done that in the time allotted. So I'd just need to know how fast chandeliers fall.

Hakubo is also much faster than the watch and how fast the chandelier fell as seen here:

I have no clue how heavy that chandelier is, so I'm going to use a video of a chandelier falling to try to calculate this. This video at 2:48
The chandelier is moving fast, but a decently quick human, like athletic human speed I think, could react to it. So I think the characters are mainly at athletic human as base speed as opposed to massively hypersonic+

This as well as the Kou blitz would both probably yield results in the subsonic ranges given the large distance and blatantly short time frames (the perception speed of a superhuman person and the time it took the chandelier to fall few centimeters).

I agree that the speed rating could definitely use a calculation instead of just slapping the lightning speed value on it, but I definitely disagree with the below average human or athletic human proposals.

I was planning on doing some speed calculations when I get to watching the anime (as I've only read the manga so far) but I haven't really gotten to it yet since other stuff has been keeping me busy

 

[Flickfanlol]

The lightning isn't shown to hit Hanako it's shown to get very close to him. The lightning not working could also be specifically meant to be because it can't hit Hanako given he stat-dwarfs Kou.

I mean since yk, regardless of your interpretation of whether it can hurt Hanako, he visibly perception-blitzed Kou in this very scene.

This is a comedic scene not meant to represent the power of these characters. Unless you want to either
A) upscale toddler Nene to Tsukasas level despite Tsukasa being a top tier in the verse.

Or

B) You want to downgrade Tsukasa and as a result effectively the entire verse to below average human level, including several adult humans and characters who perform blatantly superhuman feats.

This as well as the Kou blitz would both probably yield results in the subsonic ranges given the large distance and blatantly short time frames (the perception speed of a superhuman person and the time it took the chandelier to fall few centimeters).

I agree that the speed rating could definitely use a calculation instead of just slapping the lightning speed value on it, but I definitely disagree with the below average human or athletic human proposals.

I was planning on doing some speed calculations when I get to watching the anime (as I've only read the manga so far) but I haven't really gotten to it yet since other stuff has been keeping me busy

The cape that protects Hanako from lightning is why he isn't affected though. It says nothing about whether or not he is faster than the lightning because it doesn't matter since he's immune to it with the cape. The full scene in chapter 57 which hasn't been shown includes Hanako saying: "Your anti-evil lightning won't work. 'Cos as long as I'm wearing this, I'm not an evil spirit." If you doubt me, you can look back in the manga since you say you've read it before. Though if you can't, I'll get my lazy ass up and take a pic of the scene.

Also Hanako hadn't "visibly perception-blitzed" Kou. Kou had closed his eyes at first, then proudly monologued about the "true power" of his staff. Kou got distracted basically. Shit like that happens at times.

"You want to downgrade Tsukasa and as a result effectively the entire verse to below average human level, including several adult humans and characters who perform blatantly superhuman feats" Close but not quite. I want to downgrade the verse heavily from how it is in the wiki, not out of spite but rather out of a desire for the characters' profiles to match their capabilities in the manga more accurately because I refuse to believe that Teru can destroy or create a universe. In fact the only characters I see with the ability to even do one of those is Shijima Mei and unfortunately Hanako due to that one line Shijima had about him destroying her world despite how ridiculous it sounds considering Hanako otherwise consistently performs at wall level. Though more characters do fit universal if I'm going with the vs battles wiki criteria involving timeline creation: "In accordance with the established Tiering System, an event that results in the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline is ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+)."

Also, I'm not sure what the levels would be for speed since that parts a bit harder to calculate and I'd love to talk through it with you, but my best guess is between athletic human and superhuman (maybe sub-sonic, but I don't remember characters moving so fast or being described as moving so fast that they were faster than the human eye. Sometimes characters catch each other off guard, but that happens irl too). I just know the characters are far below massively hypersonic+.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The cape that protects Hanako from lightning is why he isn't affected though. It says nothing about whether or not he is faster than the lightning because it doesn't matter since he's immune to it with the cape. The full scene in chapter 57 which hasn't been shown includes Hanako saying: "Your anti-evil lightning won't work. 'Cos as long as I'm wearing this, I'm not an evil spirit." If you doubt me, you can look back in the manga since you say you've read it before. Though if you can't, I'll get my lazy ass up and take a pic of the scene.

It could still be both. We know Kou is absolutely nothing even to base Hanako so it's narratively consistent that he can't do anything to him even without the cloak.

Also Hanako hadn't "visibly perception-blitzed" Kou. Kou had closed his eyes at first, then proudly monologued about the "true power" of his staff. Kou got distracted basically. Shit like that happens at times.

He still opened his eyes before the attack finished and we see Hanako only blitzed behind him afterwards (given his cloak is still in the air from the movement).

Iirc the anime adaptation makes this even more obvious but I don't have it at hand rn

"You want to downgrade Tsukasa and as a result effectively the entire verse to below average human level, including several adult humans and characters who perform blatantly superhuman feats" Close but not quite.

I mean that's what your post implies. Otherwise I don't really see the point of bringing up the Nene scene

I want to downgrade the verse heavily from how it is in the wiki, not out of spite but rather out of a desire for the characters' profiles to match their capabilities in the manga more accurately because I refuse to believe that Teru can destroy or create a universe. In fact the only characters I see with the ability to even do one of those is Shijima Mei and unfortunately Hanako due to that one line Shijima had about him destroying her world despite how ridiculous it sounds considering Hanako otherwise consistently performs at wall level. Though more characters do fit universal if I'm going with the vs battles wiki criteria involving timeline creation: "In accordance with the established Tiering System, an event that results in the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline is ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+)."

That is called personal incredulity. You should carefully read through the arguments that achieved the current ratings and evaluate them on their own.

Also, I'm not sure what the levels would be for speed since that parts a bit harder to calculate and I'd love to talk through it with you, but my best guess is between athletic human and superhuman (maybe sub-sonic, but I don't remember characters moving so fast or being described as moving so fast that they were faster than the human eye. Sometimes characters catch each other off guard, but that happens irl too). I just know the characters are far below massively hypersonic+.

Given that we literally see Hanako mentally react to the lightning from Kou approaching him I think that at the very worst gives us MHS+ reaction speed. Which given he doesn't have any sharingan-like abilities should naturally be close to his general speed.
And I remember doing rough calculations that got the chandelier feat around subsonic. So they're blatantly not just athletic/superhuman.

 

[Flickfanlol]

It could still be both. We know Kou is absolutely nothing even to base Hanako so it's narratively consistent that he can't do anything to him even without the cloak.

He still opened his eyes before the attack finished and we see Hanako only blitzed behind him afterwards (given his cloak is still in the air from the movement).

Iirc the anime adaptation makes this even more obvious but I don't have it at hand rn

I mean that's what your post implies. Otherwise I don't really see the point of bringing up the Nene scene

That is called personal incredulity. You should carefully read through the arguments that achieved the current ratings and evaluate them on their own.

Given that we literally see Hanako mentally react to the lightning from Kou approaching him I think that at the very worst gives us MHS+ reaction speed. Which given he doesn't have any sharingan-like abilities should naturally be close to his general speed.
And I remember doing rough calculations that got the chandelier feat around subsonic. So they're blatantly not just athletic/superhuman.

Hanako wasn't reacting as the lightning approached him. The lightning was literally on him:

Also I have read the arguments justifying the current ratings. I have some bones to pick regarding the inaccurate durability. Hanako has multi-solar system level durability according to the wiki, but in the after school manga, he gets knocked out by Nene:

Furthermore, arguments such as the boundaries being multi-solar system level doesn't mean the characters can create or destroy multi-solar systems. It just means the characters currently have domain over an already existing multi-solar system place.

So yes, I do disagree with a lot of the arguments in the vs battles wiki regarding the verse.

 

[Flickfanlol]

I think I'm going to take a break and collect all my thoughts and calcs first and then come back to this site with a CRT because I clearly came unprepared.