The FNAF Continuities, Remnant Revamp, and more! CRT

[Perequeliri993]

Okay, so this is a big Crt, Let's start!

FNAF Continuities: The convolution

Okay, so fnaf has five main canon continuities: the Games, the Novels, Fazbear Frights, Tales from the Pizzaplex and the Movies.

We have the following statements regarding cross-continuity canonicity:

The series will launch with five books, each containing three different short stories with unique characters and plot lines, some connected directly to the games, and some not.

All I can do is say that some questions will be answered; even if it may not always be the answer you wanted. Be patient. Let me at least say this; future games will look forward; but look to the novels to fill in some of blanks to the past!

Connections Between the Books and Games: While the books are set in a separate continuity from the games, they are considered canon. Many concepts first introduced in the novels later took hold in the games, while concepts in the games were sometimes expanded on in the novels

After some talk in the Fnaf general discussion thread it was more or less agreed that the main thing that would be shared between the continuities would be (If mentioned), remnant. This, for all main canon continuities except for the movies, which do not have any statements supporting its unification in the broader canonicity.

Main Canon

The Games

This includes: Fnaf 1-4, Sister Location, Freddy Fazbear Pizzeria Simulator, the Survival Logbook, Ultimate Custom Night, Help Wanted, Security Breach, Ruin DLC, Help Wanted 2, Secret of the Mimic, and the Interactive Novels (Which have proven to be more reliably in the same continuity to the games)

• You might've noticed I didn't include Fnaf AR: Special Delivery, and that's because its canonicity is... unreliable. It tries to be canon, but there's several contradictions, like a character switching jobs in-between AR and SB, and Springtrap being alive, in his original, more repaired suit, while he is supposedly being tortured by TOYSHK for all of eternity, with the games never coming back to this. The game was also offically discontinued and shut down.
• It should be noted that some parts of SB are either non canon or dubiously canon, since Scott and the Steel Wool team had major miscommunications due to covid that made Steel Wool misunderstand what Scott had intended for the story, Burntrap being one of those examples that Scott gave to which Burntrap was supposed to be a cool easter egg in the background but then became a major boss fight. It should be noted that some parts of SB are a misunderstanding between Steel Wool and Scott himself, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Most notably the endings depicted in Gregory's comics, since all but one are depicted there, and thus those are simply Gregory's fanfiction, except the ture ending that wasn't depicted at all, most notably inclunding Burntrap's whole existance.

The rest are more self explanatory

The Novels Trilogy

More specifically: The Silver Eyes, The Twisted ones, and The Fourth Closet, both the traditional and graphical novels

The Fazbear Frights books

All Fazbear Frights books, nothing more worth mentioning.

The Tales from the Pizzaplex books

Ditto, but TFTP instead.

Alternate Canon
The Movies

Both the main fnaf movies, and their novelizations.

Semi-Canon/Dubiously Canon

Fnaf World

Fnaf World is in an interesting position in which it contains some tidbits and parts of lore, but its main gameplay and story is non-canon. The general consensus is that it's an in-universe game in which the childs' souls are putting together the Happiest Day for the Crying Child, and recreating some of the minigames from FNAF 3 that were neccesary to reach Happiest Day.

Fnaf AR: Special Delivery

As stated before, its canonicity is... dubious. Still should follow the same remnant rules, though.

Into the pit: The Game

Despite what some may say, the Into the Pit game not only contradicts the fact that there were five Missing Children, by saying there were 6 like in Fazbear Frights, but its Interactive Book counterpart did get it right. It's only here instead of in the non-canon section because it seems to follow the same remnant rules.
Non-Canon

Freddy in Space 2 and 3

Security Breach Fury's Rage

Youtooz Presents: Five Nights at Freddy's

Five Laps at Freddy's

Unlike the other non-canon spin-offs, this one actually has some lore hidden, but ir's so minor and unlike FNAF World, it is not some meta stuff, just a car with a decoration that implies some stuff for one specific minigame explaining who a character is.

Crossovers (Non-Canon)

Dead by Daylight

Funko fusion

Agree: OrangeFR, Comiphorous, Thebadtimetrio32 (Everything but AR's canonicity), DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

Disagree: Thebadtimetrio32 (AR's canonicity)

Neutral:

Remnant Page Revamp

Right now, the remnant page is a mess, with abilities that don't make much sense put together, and characters in higher tiers doing things that they are never
shown, nor should plasuibly be capable of doing.

For this, I created a set of rules that most people seemingly agreed with:

First rule: For the ability to be in the page, it has to have been shown by at least three characters, with some very few exceptions for things either explicitely said to be remnant-originated or things that don't take a great leap in logic to assume they are universal.

Second rule: The characters have to show that use of the ability in specific. For example, all the toys can make lights flicker, so it makes sense other mid tier and up remnant users can. Similarly, all the classics can distort the cams and outright disable the doors and lights, so high tier and up remnant users should scale. However only Foxy can outright drain energy from the building, so only he scales to that. Even if all of this is Technoloogy Manipulation, only wide-scale uses of the abilities count.

Third rule: Peak tier remnant will be reduced to the most general of general abilities, as when we reach that level the characters are very unique and distinguished from one another, and can vary in power. This would make some outliers, like games Springtrap having nonsensical stuff, no longer a problem.

Revamped page

Spoiler: Changes

• Low-tier remnant:
  • Immortality type 2: Removed Minireenas feat.
  • Expanded the explanation for Self sustenance
  • Non-physical interaction: removed the feat of hitting 8-bit baby, as it does not follow rule 2 (Spiritual vs energy are diferent non-physicalities)
• Mid-tier remnant:
  • Removed Fetch and Circus Baby's feats, as they do not follow rule 2.
  • Moved RWQFSFASXC (frights) here, as petitioned here
• HIgh-tier remnant:
  • Removed Bonnie operating his head separately of his body as it is something only he does, breaking rule 2.
  • Removed Springbonnie, Freddy and Puppet's specific uses of Perception Manipulation, as dictated by rule 2.
  • Removed Puppet's telepathy feat.
  • Removed RWQFSFASXC (frights) from here to mid tier, as petitioned here
• Peak-tier remnant/agony:
  • Complete deletion of most abilities, except for the most general ones.
• Spirits were kept the same, as it was already general enough.

We also should make sure that the feats that were removed are re-added to the specific characters' pages again.

Also also, the page should be remaned from "Remnant" to "Remnant and Agony". Agony and remnant, despite techincally being different, have the same abilities and only being to show differences in the peak tiers, which are barely still a thing. This is just so we don't have to make a whole 'nother page for something that is pretty much the same.

Agree: Comiphorous, OrangeFR, TheOrangeGuy09

Disagree:

Neutral: DaReaperMan
It's complicated: Thebadtimetrio32

The Mimic's Un-Mimic-ing

The Mimic currently has stuffed mixed in from both the games and books that should be separated. However, I do not know enough about TFTP or new era fnaf to do it, so I'll leave the mission to some brave volunteer. For now, just remove book stuff from the page.

Agree: Comiphorous, Thebadtimetrio32, DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

Disagree:

Neutral:

Are already added via another crt.

Are we on crac-Are the Phantoms Springtrap's doing?

Since the new Remnant page basically erases every shred of hax that games William has related to illusion, and as a peak tier only having some minor perception manipulation from upscaling the high tiers, it's time to go back to the question that plagued every pre-remnant fnaf supporter: Are the Phantoms Springtrap's doing?

The Phantoms are non-corporeal illusions that jumpscare you if you look at them for too long, but they don't kill you and just break the ventilation, camera and/or audio systems.

Spoiler: For and Against

There are several points for and against this, so lets go over them:

• Against: In Night 1, Phone Dude mentions that if we don't keep the ventilations up, we would "be seeing some crazy stuff". At this point, Springtrap is not in the building, and the attraction seems to have been in the works for some time, and since Springtrap is kilometers away with no other similar feat, it would be hyperballic to say it was his fault.
  • However, in night 1 not only is springtrap unable to be found (because he isn't in the building), but the phantoms as well. Meaning that they only appear after Springtrap is in the building.
  • Also, it is very possible that Phone dude was referring to other "Crazy stuff", as he says it is because of the ventilations, but the ventilations don't affect the phantoms in any way, as what the ventilation errors do is increase Springtrap's agression, black out your screen and make you hallucinate of other springtrap.
• Against: In FFPS, Michael was not affected by the phantoms, even though William was in the building.
  • This could be gameplay mechanics, as Lefty, who has the Puppet inside them, also does nothing.
  • In order to account for this, Michael was given reactive evlution
• For: The Phantoms can make your different systems fail, something normal illusions are uncapable of doing, and so should be supernatural in some way.
  • Since Phone Dude and co. are collecting various Freddy's paraphernalia, it could just be the souls trapped inside the suits that are causing the phantoms.
• For: As mentioned before, the phantoms cannot appear on night one, when William is not on the building, and only appear from night 2 onwards, when William is in the building.
  • Could just be game mechanics, or be the remnant in the paraphernalia going wild when detecting William in the building.

Illusion Creation and Technology Manipulation (Implied to be the one behind the apparition of the Phantom Animatronics, who can make the audio, camera, and ventilation systems malfunction)

I'm of the opinion that they are his doing, however if there's too much divide, we can also just put it as a Possibly Illusion Creation and Technology Manipulation.

Also, depending on the results of this part of the crt, Mike's Reactive Evoultion could either be removed or reduced to a possibly.

Agree completely: Thebadtimetrio32, ShionAH

Agree for possibly: OrangeFR

Disagree: Comiphorous, DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

Neutral:
Circus Baby Bipolarity Removal
Right now, Circus Baby has Multiple Selves type 1 for the following reason:

• Multiple Selves (Type 1; Elizabeth's spirit and the Circus Baby animatronic have different personalities)

Lets expand on what they are saying, and why I believe it to be wrong.

Lots of times, Circus Baby will talk to us with her voice and point of view or with Elizabeth's voice and pov. This might leave you to, understandably, believe that they are different minds, however, do notice how a big part of baby's character is about pretending, and in FFPS, during the True Ending, Elizabeth talks in Baby's voice (notice how she calls William 'daddy'), meaning she was likely switching voices, and not minds- only Elizabeth is in there.

Agree: OrangeFR

Disagree: Thebadtimetrio32,

Neutral: Comiphorous, DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

UCN animatronics have low-tier remnant
For some time now, we have debated on if the UCN animatronics, created by TOYSHK for torturing William, are possessed by the original souls of the respective animatronics, and the general consensus is no. There are different versions of the same caharacters in UCN that are possessed by the same characters, and it makes everything too complicated, and it also lacks much evidence. And I agree with that.

The point I am trying to make is that, despite not being the original souls, they were made by remnant/agony, and some of the UCN characters are non-technological, like Trash and the gang or Phone Guy. The fact they were literally made by a peak tier remnant/agony user also should make them applicable for Low-tier remnant, although since their abilities are given to them by TOYSHK, their abilities shouldn't scale to the remnant page (ie the remnant page shouldn't use them as their basis for putting more abilities in it).

Agree: Thebadtimetrio32, TheOrangeGuy09

Disagree:

Neutral: Comiphorous, OrangeFR, DaReaperMan

Golden Duo's inclusion (ie the one that is a hell to explain)

Let's go step by step.
Golden Duo is a theory that has been as of late all but confirmed, which says Golden Freddy is not only possessed by Cassidy, the 5th Missing Children Incident victim, but also by the Crying Child, also known as the Bite Victim. This would give Golden Freddy the following:

Muiltiple Selves (Types 1 and 2; Is possessed by both the 5th Missing Children Incident victim, as well as the Crying Child)

To explain the origins of the theory and why it is so accepted, I'll have to do some explaining.

Shortly after FFPS released and seemingly ended the story, the Survival Logbook released. The survival logbook is like an activity book that is given out to security guards to do during their night shift- At the first page you can even see Mike's name. When you read the book, you can also see that there's two other entities in the book: One that writes in faded text, and another that's altering the already existing text (this clip shows some) (this souls will be called Faded and Altered for now)

We found pretty quickly that Altered was Crying Child, as indicated by Faded saying "Does he still talk to you?" along a Fredbear plush, the plush that always followed and talked to him, and "Was your favorite childhood toy a plastic purple telephone?", a reference to the one he had in his bedroom. Then we discovered that Faded was the fifth Missing Child that possesses Golden Freddy, as referenced by a faded tombstone saying "My name" in it, a reference to the FFPS ending in which gravestones with the missing children's names in there were lined up, and that had taken place only weeks prior, with the fifth missing child's name being covered by the grass. (clip)

Across the book, there's comments of "Who are you?", "What's your name?" from Altered (Crying Child), and several comments of "My name" by Faded (5th MCI victim). This told us that we were meant to discover their names, however since this is not what i wanna talk about, I'll just say that we discovered that the 5th MCI victim's name was Cassidy and, more recently, that the Crying Child's name is... likely Dave (this last one is still heavily devated).

Well, what this book does and is of our interest is make a connection between Cassidy and CC (Crying Child/Dave), which we'll further expand upon here:

• First of all, in case this question comes up, yes, multiple souls in an animatronic has happened before, although in the books. However, since we said that remnant workings should be cross-scalable, it should still be possible.
• I also want to clarify that we know almost 100% (excepting some very out there theories) that Cassidy is in Golden Freddy, being the 5th MCI victim and being stuffed in the Golden Freddy suit like the rest of the MCI victims, given life by the puppet. the point of this is to show that CC is also in there.
• In the fnaf 3 ending, Golden Freddy has two eyes lit up instead of just one like the rest of the animatronics, possibly indicating two souls.
• In the Happiest Day minigame, you attend a party for the golden freddy masked soul for it to stop crying, and this birthday party is a recreation of the day that CC died in his birthday, just made happier by the rest of the kids, finally having a happy birthday party.
• In the interactive novel The Week Before, various things hint at this:
  • A recording of The bite of '83 is played, and it is recreated on Ralph, presumably by Golden Freddy, all while a Sobbing Child is heard.
  • Two voices speaking in Ralph's mind with one attempting to torture him with mental attacks and the other using Bronwen's voice to put him to rest.
  • One garbled voice saying it's me as another child's voice cries.
    • It should be noted that "It's me" is a phrase frequently associated with golden Freddy.

Agree: Sir_Marvulous, OrangeFR

Disagree:

Neutral: Comiphorous, Thebadtimetrio32, DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

Edit: Into the Pit Springbonnie new profile

Comiphorous created a remastered profile for the Yellow Rabbit of the FF books.

New profile

It lacks some feats and powers & abilities., but not much more. Also a general quality increase for the page.

Agree: Comiphorous, Thebadtimetrio32, DaReaperMan, TheOrangeGuy09

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Golden Duo's inclusion (ie the one that is a hell to explain)
Let's go step by step.
Golden Duo is a theory that has been as of late all but confirmed, which says is not only possessed by Cassidy, the 5th Missing Children Incident victim, but also by the Crying Child, also known as the Bite Victim. This would give Golden Freddy the following:


To explain the origins of the theory and why it is so accepted, I'll have to do some explaining.

Shortly after FFPS released and seemingly ended the story, the Survival Logbook realeased. The survival logbook is like an activity book that is giving out to security guards to do during their night shift- At the first page you can even see Mike's name. When you read the book, you can also see that there's too other entities in the book: One that writes in faded text, and another that altering the already existing text (this clip shows some) (this souls will be called Faded and Altered for now)

We found pretty quickly that Altered was Crying Child, as indicated by Faded saying "Does he still talk to you?" along a Fredbear plush, the plush that always followed and talked to him, and "Was your favorite childhood toy a plastic purple telephone?", a reference to the one he had in his bedroom. Then we discovered that Faded was the fifth Missing Child that possesses Golden Freddy, as referenced by a faded tombstone saying "My name" in it, a reference to the FFPS ending in which gravestones with the missing children's names in there were lined up, and that had taken place only weeks prior, with the fifth missing child's name being covered by the grass. (clip)

Across the book, there's comments of "Who are you?", "What's your name?" from Altered (Crying Child), and several comments of "My name" by Faded (5th MCI victim). This told us that we were meant to discover their names, however since this is not what i wanna talk about, I'll just say that we discovered that the 5th MCI victim's name was Cassidy and, more recently, that the Crying Child's name is... likely Dave (this last one is still heavily devated).

Well, what this book does and is of our interest is make a connection between Cassidy and CC (Crying Child/Dave), which we'll further expand upon here:

• First of all, in case this question comes up, yes, multiple souls in an animatronic has happened before, although in the books. However, since we said that remnant workings should be cross-scalable, it should still be possible.
• I also want to clarify that we know almost 100% (excepting some very out there theories) that Cassidy is in Golden Freddy, being the 5th MCI victim and being stuffed in the Golden Freddy suit like the rest of the MCI victims, given life by the puppet. the point of this is to show that CC is also in there.
• In the fnaf 3 ending, Golden Freddy has two eyes lit up instead of just one like the rest of the animatronics, possibly indicating three souls.
• In the Happiest Day minigame, you attend a party for the golden freddy masked soul for it to stop crying, and this birthday party is a recreation of the day that CC died in his birthday, just made happier by the rest of the kids, finally having a happy birthday party.
• In the interactive novel The Week Before, various things hint at this:
  • A recording of The bite of '83 is played, and it is recreated on Ralph, presumably by Golden Freddy, al while a Sobing Child is heard.
  • Two voices speaking in Ralph's mind with one attempting to torture him with mental attacks and the other using Bronwen's voice to put him to rest.
  • One garbled voice saying it's me as another child's voice cries.
    • It should be noted that "It's me" is a phrase frequently associated with golden Freddy.

Though the FNaF 3 bad ending isn't a good reason. The light in Golden Freddy's head gives off the illusion that it's two lights. It's the same source

That being said, there's a bit more to Cassidy and CC being connected. In the Logbook, there's an image of a girl with black hair being given a cake, which resembles the events of Happiest Day. In Security Breach, a girl with a similar description can be seen in a hospitalized bed identical to the one in FNaF 4; further drawing connection to the imagery surrounding the Crying Child of that bedroom and hospital items. In the Return to the Pit Interactive Novel, there's a secret ending with a sequence that strongly resembles Happiest Day. It ends with the main character giving cake to a girl with curly hair (the name "Cassidy" means "curly-haired").

And (I'm quoting r/fnaftheories for this one)

HW2 still strongly suggets it for some god damn reason.

Since Golden Freddy doll is consistently referencing BV, not Cassidy.

The way you get GF doll is by mixing a bunch ingriedients of food. And then in The Week Before The Bite of 83 was referenced in the "Burger bite" or something like that, where they even say "the secret ingridient is you!".

Also in the main hub of HW2 Golden Freddy Plush us put next to a head of a staff bot, simmilary to how in SB there was a Afton family table, where CC is represented by a Staff bot without a head.

Plus if you're one of the believers that the grave order is the realese order. Then this would mean that BV is liteary the receiver.

Everything points to BVReceiver!........

.....And then RTTP comes out and says that the final receiver is a girl.

There's such a striking connection between Cassidy and the Crying Child that no other spirits in the FNaF universe have ever had

Would really appreciate if someone with the Logbook and RTTP could bring scans to help

 

[Comiphorous]

I'm primarily the Fazbear Frights guy now ig, so i'll comment on the fazbear frights stuff. which is most of it. ****.

Regarding remnant, i don't want it anywhere on the movie pages. that's not just a different continuity it's entirely it's own thing and should be left for it to it's own thing and shouldn't get tied into the mess of the novels and books, because at least the one (in my opinion) weak statement keeping remnant as one page was referring to the books and novels to fill in gaps blah blah blah, the movies weren't even concepted at that point and that statement shouldn't have any weight on those, especially when the movies don't do the very thing that statement was talking about. it's not connected to the other continuities by any stretch of the imagination. if the movie decides to bring remnant into the situation (which i have a feeling it will due to a certain someone making a cameo in william's closet) it should not use the same page as the other continuities.

That is my final answer on that matter.

---

Yeah the mimic probably needs to get separated from his book, since as far as i've heard they're slightly different from book to games. Tales isn't even canon to games are they?

I don't believe william is doing the phantoms in fnaf 3. I believe the evidence is stronger in favor of him not doing it.

I am neutral on everything else!

 

[Perequeliri993]

I'm primarily the Fazbear Frights guy now ig, so i'll comment on the fazbear frights stuff. which is most of it. ****.

Sorry not sorry? But yeah, you are the Fazbear Firghts guy now.

Regarding remnant, i don't want it anywhere on the movie pages. that's not just a different continuity it's entirely it's own thing and should be left for it to it's own thing and shouldn't get tied into the mess of the novels and books, because at least the one (in my opinion) weak statement keeping remnant as one page was referring to the books and novels to fill in gaps blah blah blah, the movies weren't even concepted at that point and that statement shouldn't have any weight on those, especially when the movies don't do the very thing that statement was talking about. it's not connected to the other continuities by any stretch of the imagination. if the movie decides to bring remnant into the situation (which i have a feeling it will due to a certain someone making a cameo in william's closet) it should not use the same page as the other continuities.

That is my final answer on that matter.

Alright, I can see your point. Agree, will update later

---

Yeah the mimic probably needs to get separated from his book, since as far as i've heard they're slightly different from book to games. Tales isn't even canon to games are they?

No, it isn't.

I don't believe william is doing the phantoms in fnaf 3. I believe the evidence is stronger in favor of him not doing it.

Before, I myself was neutral on it, but after the evidence I bringed forth in the second counter argument for the phone dude line, I was more convinced for it. The Crazy Stuff that is supposed to happen is supposed to be affected by the ventilation, which the phantoms are not, but the Illusory springtrap/s is/are.

And once you remove the Phone Dude statement, there is not much more evidence against it.

I am neutral on everything else!

Okay!

 

[Comiphorous]

Sorry not sorry? But yeah, you are the Fazbear Firghts guy now.

Could be worse, i'm reading books now so not all bad ig.

Before, I myself was neutral on it, but after the evidence I bringed forth in the second counter argument for the phone dude line, I was more convinced for it. The Crazy Stuff that is supposed to happen is supposed to be affected by the ventilation, which the phantoms are not, but the Illusory springtrap/s is/are.

I'm more incline to believe it's just remnant/agony whatever you really wanna blame it on waking up and messing with the systems, not really directly Afton himself. (As you mentioned in OP) I feel the intended message was that the phantoms were there before (as the "crazy stuff" people were seeing) but were blamed on the ventilation and such as a reasonable explanation. because of all the (probably haunted) fazbear entertainment crap they got sticking around, they started doing their shenanigans from what i mentioned earlier.

 

[OrangeFR]

Agree with all the changes to the remnant page, neutral on UCN remnant stuff, agree with Goldenduo, agree with Circus Baby no longer being Kanye West losing multiple personalities, and I think Springtrap causing the phantoms should just give him "possibly"(tho the justification should elaborate on how it works).

Okay now for canonicity, the Mimic books split is very obvious, fine with that, also Security Breach Fury's Rage, Freddy in Space 3, Five Laps at Freddy's (probably for now ig, it literally solves Midnight Motorist but we don't care about story and lore on VSBW), (maybe the upcoming official Roblox game, IDK tho they could end up making it games canon for no reason) and... Youtooz Presents-Five Nights at Freddy's... (nah actually what the **** is this shit, like actually mfs are saying "oH a FoRtNiTe CoLlAb WoUlDn'T fIt ThE tOnE oF tHe SeRiEs!1!111", and then turn a blind eye when Scott Cawthon pulls this shit and puts Freddy Fazbear on Popeyes meals and Fanta cans) should all be included in the non-canon section.

Also lowkey might be a good idea to make a thing for crossovers (DBD and Funko Fusion [kill me]) I think.

Also you completely forgot about the ************* choose your own adventure books (Return to the pit and the Cassie one I forgot what it was called, TWB is games canon so we are good on that), I have no idea where to put those so just slap them in a different continuity for now, and also the Into the Pit Game should probably be somewhere, maybe just put it in another continuity as well.

I think that's it. Oh yeah, I agree with Comiphorous about how the Movies should not have remnant yet.

 

[OrangeFR]

I'm more incline to believe it's just remnant/agony whatever you really wanna blame it on waking up and messing with the systems, not really directly Afton himself. (As you mentioned in OP) I feel the intended message was that the phantoms were there before (as the "crazy stuff" people were seeing) but were blamed on the ventilation and such as a reasonable explanation. because of all the (probably haunted) fazbear entertainment crap they got sticking around, they started doing their shenanigans from what i mentioned earlier.

But then why no Phantoms night 1?

 

[Comiphorous]

But then why no Phantoms night 1?

How would you explain people seeing things in that building before the player is even there as phone dude implied if Afton was behind the notable phantoms in the building while unconscious behind a fake wall?

Chances are scott just didn't want any threats night 1 and had them all turned off, but in story would probably still be suffering from the bad ventilation but didn't want to make that a game mechanic.

 

[Perequeliri993]

Could be worse, i'm reading books now so not all bad ig.

I'm more incline to believe it's just remnant/agony whatever you really wanna blame it on waking up and messing with the systems, not really directly Afton himself. (As you mentioned in OP) I feel the intended message was that the phantoms were there before (as the "crazy stuff" people were seeing) but were blamed on the ventilation and such as a reasonable explanation. because of all the (probably haunted) fazbear entertainment crap they got sticking around, they started doing their shenanigans from what i mentioned earlier.

How would you explain people seeing things in that building before the player is even there as phone dude implied if Afton was behind the notable phantoms in the building while unconscious behind a fake wall?

Chances are scott just didn't want any threats night 1 and had them all turned off, but in story would probably still be suffering from the bad ventilation but didn't want to make that a game mechanic.

So our options for believing in Phantoms!springtrap is either no, with a complicated explanation, or yes... Also with a complicated explanation. This is very fnaf-like.

Agree with all the changes to the remnant page, neutral on UCN remnant stuff, agree with Goldenduo, agree with Circus Baby no longer being Kanye West losing multiple personalities, and I think Springtrap causing the phantoms should just give him "possibly"(tho the justification should elaborate on how it works).

Okay

Okay now for canonicity, the Mimic books split is very obvious, fine with that, also Security Breach Fury's Rage, Freddy in Space 3, Five Laps at Freddy's (probably for now ig, it literally solves Midnight Motorist but we don't care about story and lore on VSBW), (maybe the upcoming official Roblox game, IDK tho they could end up making it games canon for no reason) and... Youtooz Presents-Five Nights at Freddy's... (nah actually what the **** is this shit, like actually mfs are saying "oH a FoRtNiTe CoLlAb WoUlDn'T fIt ThE tOnE oF tHe SeRiEs!1!111", and then turn a blind eye when Scott Cawthon pulls this shit and puts Freddy Fazbear on Popeyes meals and Fanta cans) should all be included in the non-canon section.

My bad for forgetting the racing car game, the youtooz game I never heard about, the fighting game that appeared once and never again, and the sequel of the sequel of the minigame from the update of the spin-off. I'm just a bad fnaf fan for forgetting those

Also, wdym lore is not important???? Midnight Motorist is what gives subsonic to fnaf Springtrap!

Also lowkey might be a good idea to make a thing for crossovers (DBD and Funko Fusion [kill me]) I think.

Alright, will do

Also you completely forgot about the ************* choose your own adventure books (Return to the pit and the Cassie one I forgot what it was called, TWB is games canon so we are good on that), I have no idea where to put those so just slap them in a different continuity for now, and also the Into the Pit Game should probably be somewhere, maybe just put it in another continuity as well.

Didn't forget about them. They are just in the games section.

I believe neither Return to the Pit nor the other Cassie one went against the games lore, so I included them there.

I think that's it. Oh yeah, I agree with Comiphorous about how the Movies should not have remnant yet.

Okay.

 

[Perequeliri993]

But then why no

just didn't want

Please re-check the changes to canonicity to make sure it is now to your liking.

 

[Comiphorous]

I was reading FF: into the pit and i'd just like to make another comment about the self-sustenance for remnant users;

I think type 1 self-sustenance should be removed entirely from the page, animatronic or not. them being an animatronic and having no need for breathing isn't an ability given to them through remnant, that's an ability given to them by their vessel simply not having lungs due to possessing a robot. Makes more sense to just not list it at all.

 

[OrangeFR]

How would you explain people seeing things in that building before the player is even there as phone dude implied if Afton was behind the notable phantoms in the building while unconscious behind a fake wall?

Chances are scott just didn't want any threats night 1 and had them all turned off, but in story would probably still be suffering from the bad ventilation but didn't want to make that a game mechanic.

1. They just didn’t see the phantoms specifically, or the phantoms weren’t causing audio and video errors in the equipment until Springtrap got there (basically Springtrap could just be causing the phantoms to cause errors and not the hallucinations themselves). You can see 2 Springtraps after a ventilation error as well, which is an example of a non-phantom hallucination in Fazbear’s Fright, proving that it is possible for hallucinations that aren’t the phantoms to exist.

2. This feels kinda like a stretch to me, why assume something is the case in lore instead of what is shown in gameplay?

 

[AthelChan]

Are you perhaps part of the game theory fnaf lore group

 

[Comiphorous]

1. They just didn’t see the phantoms specifically, or the phantoms weren’t causing audio and video errors in the equipment until Springtrap got there (basically Springtrap could just be causing the phantoms to cause errors and not the hallucinations themselves). You can see 2 Springtraps after a ventilation error as well, which is an example of a non-phantom hallucination in Fazbear’s Fright, proving that it is possible for hallucinations that aren’t the phantoms to exist.

Atp we're getting purely into "what ifs" here. I don't think theres anything more we can bring to eachother that isn't "well what if it's this instead of this." nothing concrete we're just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.

I don't think either of us are any more right than the other, because the canon explaination is non-existent if we don't take phone dude's word.

2. This feels kinda like a stretch to me, why assume something is the case in lore instead of what is shown in gameplay?

The only reason you got the two springtraps as a "hallucination" is because scott never fixed his terrible code causing multiple to appear. far from a stretch imo for him to cut corners with enemies appearing night one with fnaf 3.

 

[Perequeliri993]

The only reason you got the two springtraps as a "hallucination" is because scott never fixed his terrible code causing multiple to appear. far from a stretch imo for him to cut corners with enemies appearing night one with fnaf 3.

Wdym springtrap hallucinations are a bug? Pretty sure it's an intended feature, and the fnaf wiki seems to agree. I can agree with you having your doubts, and thus, disagreeing, but please do try to explain why you think things that are features may just be bugs.

I was reading FF: into the pit and i'd just like to make another comment about the self-sustenance for remnant users;

I think type 1 self-sustenance should be removed entirely from the page, animatronic or not. them being an animatronic and having no need for breathing isn't an ability given to them through remnant, that's an ability given to them by their vessel simply not having lungs due to possessing a robot. Makes more sense to just not list it at all.

That's likely because Springbonnie is also organic, I'll edit the page later to explain better when which one applies. (Mostly because I don't want to have to put an extra self sustenance on 90% of the characters because of two or three wild ones)

 

[OrangeFR]

Atp we're getting purely into "what ifs" here. I don't think theres anything more we can bring to eachother that isn't "well what if it's this instead of this." nothing concrete we're just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.

I don't think either of us are any more right than the other, because the canon explaination is non-existent if we don't take phone dude's word.

The only reason you got the two springtraps as a "hallucination" is because scott never fixed his terrible code causing multiple to appear. far from a stretch imo for him to cut corners with enemies appearing night one with fnaf 3.

Tbh yeah. Just giving Afton a “possibly” tag in front of these abilities would be best IMO.

Also Perequelir can you please change some of the text color in the OP from whatever the really light color is? I can barely read it.
EDIT: Okay it is fine in dark mode but not light mode for me.

 

[Perequeliri993]

Tbh yeah. Just giving Afton a “possibly” tag in front of these abilities would be best IMO.

Also Perequelir can you please change some of the text color in the OP from whatever the really light color is? I can barely read it.
EDIT: Okay it is fine in dark mode but not light mode for me.

What part is hard to read in light mode?

Also, what kind of heathen are you that you are using ligh mode?

Edit: nvm fixed

 

[OrangeFR]

What part is hard to read in light mode?

Also, what kind of heathen are you that you are using ligh mode?

Edit: nvm fixed

I straight up didn’t know VSBW forums had a dark mode

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Scott Cawthon is the greatest writer on earth.

Anyways for the FF stuff I lowkey just read the specific books mentioned just to fact check everything so if I misinterpret anything mb, was just interested in entering the discussion with my own points.

This, for all main canon continuities except for the movies, which do not have any statements supporting its unification in the broader canonicity.

This technically isn't true, but can also be true I suppose. Matthew Lillard has once stated "But we have a bible here to pay attention to and follow. And so I think that it's important to Scott that he sort of fills in a lot of the lore questions that live in this community, and keep giving the fans of the community what they want." Scott has also said “The story really lends itself to being a movie, and it taps into a largely unexplored niche of horror that a lot of people will be able to relate to,”, possibly meaning that Scott considers the rules and logic the game has into the movie. I say you could still exclude the unification because Matthew Lillard's statement could just be his opinion and that Scott isn't focusing on filling in lore, and the Scott statement is vague enough to where he could just be making a completely alternate story that isn't meant to connect to the games, similarly to his original intent with the Silver Eyes. That's up to the thread. Not sure what would even be included with the movies, VanessaAfton evidence for the games?

You might've noticed I didn't include Fnaf AR: Special Delivery, and that's because its canonicity is... unreliable. It tries to be canon, but there's several contradictions, like a character switching jobs in-between AR and SB, and Springtrap being alive, in his original, more repaired suit, while he is supposedly being tortured by TOYSHK for all of eternity, with the games never coming back to this. The game was also offically discontinued and shut down.

I thought none of the animatronics in AR are real? I was always under the impression that AR Springtrap was just hacked into the game by Vanessa/Glitchtrap and that's why he was never found in any database. I also thought that this could explain Burntrap and what his corpse is, the corpse looks way too human to be a MImic Exoskeleton although Mimic is controlling it. Also if CassidyPrincess were to be true, Afton would have to be let go of at some point in the timeline I would think, but I would rather go with the interpretation that Afton never comes back after FFPS and that everything involving Springtrap is The Mimic/Glitchtrap

Also to extend for main canon, while SB is undeniably within the game continuity, I think there should be a note for the game that it's all over the place because Scott and the team had major miscommunications due to covid that made Steel Wool misunderstand what Scott had intended for the story, Burntrap being one of those examples that Scott gave to which Burntrap was supposed to be a cool easter egg in the background but then became a major boss fight. It should be noted that some parts of SB are a misunderstanding between Steel Wool and Scott himself, and could be taken with a grain of salt. Idk what specifically a note would be nice though.

I'll check Return to the Pit later cause I've been overdue for a reread because I remember disagreeing with it's canonicity but other than that put me on agree for everything else on the canonicity. The only thing I really disagree with is having Special Delivery on dubiously canon, but the movie stuff is just things I wanted to sure but am neutral on.

Every quote below is about the Remnant page.

Low Tier Remnant

"he also can survive being mauled by animatronics (Referring to Michael)"

What is the context behind this? Do we ever know why the Scrap Animatronics (Term I came up with on the top of my head) don't kill Michael in the salvage but then kill him in the security guard section? It's not like they have any less time to kill Michael in the salvaging phases. In Sister Location, Michael also lives a jumpscare from Funtime Foxy but the goal was to knock him out for Night 4's Springlocking. I'm unsure if he actually survives a serious mauling from the Scrap Animatronics, or any less than he survived Funtime Foxy's jumpscare.

"and Springtrap could eventually regain his heartbeat, as it is audible in FNAF 6 but not FNAF 3"

Do we know for sure if Springtrap really doesn't have a heartbeat? Are we close enough to Springtrap disregarding a jumpscare to say for sure he doesn't have one? You can't even hear Scraptrap's when he jumpscares you, so I think it's too vague to say Springtrap himself doesn't have one in 3. I wouldn't be surprised if he was in the safe room still alive, heart beating and everything especially when his vocal cords still work despite Silver Eyes telling us otherwise.

"Healing requires taking Remnant from outside sources"

This is mostly true yeah, my question would be what outside source did Springtrap get to have an audible heartbeat supposing he actually did regenerate it? If Springtrap doesn't regenerate it then this point is whatever but I'm curious on what the outside source for Springtrap would be.

Mid Tier Remnant

Besides maybe Elizabeth, I don't believe that the Funtimes should be here. This is mostly due to MoltenMCI, but regardless I still think Ennard himself should upscale Puppet in terms of Remnant.

I'm sure everyone knows about MoltenMCI at this point, but as a super brief breakdown it supposes that during Follow Me of FNaF 3, The Purple Guy dismantled the animatronics to take their endoskeletons (Which are notably missing later on in Follow Me and in the Fazbear Fright location) and melted them within his lab to then use the scooper to inject the MCI's remnant into the Funtime Animatronics excluding Circus Baby who had the remnant of Elizabeth already. It explains why Henry had made a blueprint involving Molten Freddy stating that it had the most amount of remnant collected and the way Henry would collect the MCI to burn them alongside every other spirit kept into the mortal realm by Afton. More evidence is found within the link sent above, and MoltenMCI Alter-S can also work just fine, but I think since the remnant that the Funtimes have should just be the MCI's who are high tier, they should definitely be high tier remnant and not mid tier. Molten Freddy's statement of having the most remnant collected should also mean he has more remnant than Charlie, Afton (At the time of FFPS) and Elizabeth, with Ennard upscaling that due to also having Elizabeth's remnant even if MoltenMCI isn't true.

Mid Tier Remnant looks great otherwise, I would just upscale the funtimes, definitely Ennard to High tier Remnant alongside the OGs.

High Tier Remnant looks perfectly fine but do we know where the creepy circus music comes from? I assume since TWB referenced a lot of the other easter eggs as doing of other characters, I would assume this came from one of the aniamtronics missing with the area? It's not on my notes when I read TWB so idk if they actually talk about it or not. (Going back to this just before clicking enter, doesn't Frights Puppet upscale Eleanor and Peak Afton? I always thought it was weird but that's an interpretation that friends who read Frights more than I have goes with. Is there a reason why Puppet would upscale Eleanor and Afton spiritually but not be Peak Tier?)

I think the rest of the remnant page looks fine otherwise unless I go on my massive book read and find stuff to add or add context to.

100% Agree with splitting Mimic's page between Games and Tales.

I agree with straight up giving Springtrap the phantom animatronics. I believe that What we Found was made as a retelling of FNaF 3 to give us more context surronding the gameplay of that game such as Springtrap constantly doing things that were corresponding to Hudson's illusions implying that Springtrap is aware of Hudson's illusions, alongside Hudson burning down his house and having a horrible relationship with his step father meaning to be a twisted parallel of Michael burning down Fazbear Fright with Springtrap in it alongside Michael being heavily implied to be an abuse victim. Alongside ofc the points brought up in the OP. I understand some of the complaints with it, but I lean toward a straight up rating.

I think for Circus Baby talking about pretending, it's about keeping calm and trying not to escape. In Night 4, Ballora is forced into the scooper at short notice according to the workers coming in to check on Ballora. Baby says that Ballora doesn't know how to pretend, which lead to her getting scopped. We also know by the end of the game that the Funtimes have been constantly trying to escape the bunker, but have failed prior. I think what Baby is trying to say is that she knows how to keep her composure and not try to randomly escape during a party, something that Ballora is incapable of doing, which is what caused her to be caught and scooped under such short notice. Michael also removes the chip from Baby, and says that he put her back together, claiming that she's "free". I think this simply means that Circus Baby's AI was within that chip, but removing the chip removed the AI and thus saved Elizabeth from having to share her body with AI that she seemingly couldn't control and explains why Elizabeth's voice is heard in Ennard. Put me on disagree for it's removal, but Scrap Baby wouldn't have it.

I am of the belief that Withered Bonnie has to have Jeremy in there, and that the whisper under Nightmare Fredbear has to be the Crying Child similarly to how TOYSNHK speaks under the Mediorce Melodies, but if this compromise can't be made then put me on agree for giving UCN animatronics at least low level remnant.

I'm SO mixed on GoldenDuo at this point. 100% think the two lights is a major stretch, Freddy's left eye is also considerably lit up. LogbookDuo is fine but idk why it took this long for Cassidy and BV to have a conversation especially in this form if they live within the same animatronic similarly to Andrew and Jake, it might have something to do with Michael somehow linking the two up, although idk how to exactly explain that either. I think GGGL is actually good evidence against GoldenDuo, as it's kinda weird that Golden Freddy is included alongside the others as having a single soul that is being given life (Puppet doesn't give life to Cassidy I think, I think Cassidy does it themself due to their high level agony), this also begs the question of why Cassidy and the MCI are by themself in Follow Me and Happiest Day if BV is meant to be connected to Golden Freddy or the MCI. For the Bite of 83 thing, I actually saw an interesting point another day where the agony of BV attached onto Golden Freddy which caused the animatronic to bite Ralph in response to the Bite of 83, rather than it literally being BV. Under LogBookDuo, BV cannot see and it would be very hard to believe that BV would be capable of recreating the BO83 under this.

Atm for GoldenDuo put me on Netural however I'm more leaning disagree more than I am agree. I used to be the biggest advocate for GoldenDuo, in fact it's still one of my favorite theories because I love the idea of BV and Cassidy being a duo in Golden Freddy and possibly being a parallel of Gregory and Cassie, but to me the evidence against it seems really strong atp.

I just read the original Into the Pit to review the remaster and I think Mid-Tier Remnant might be too low of a rating for Yellow Rabbit. The Remnant remake gives Yellow Rabbit in Frights High-Tier Remnant, and in the cover of ITP the Yellow Rabbit actually has black tears on it's right eye which might be where the game got it from which has High-Tier Remnant for the reason that it has black tears. For Perception Manipulation, Jinx knew it was the yellow rabbit and was so scared that it stayed under Oswald's bed for the entire story, so I think that should be noted too. Also I feel like Human and Peak Human stats are a bit too low? At least narratively. I know Frights is it's own continuity, but I would assume that based on the statements provided for multiverse stuff that the animatronics should be built similarly to each other to some extent. Games Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street-Wall, Movie Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street, Novel Afton with Spring Bonnie is Wall, other versions of this character range from Street to Wall, but this one is Human level? Couldn'we at least make this one at least Athlete level, possibly even street if it's an animatronic made by Fazbear Entertainment which is usually known for creating 10-A to 9-C, even 9-B equipment at a similar time period? Maybe not, just feels really weird that this is the only Spring Bonnie that isn't 9-C or even 10-A.

That should be it though. Agree with all canon stuff but Special Delivery's placement, disagree with some of the remnant stuff, but High-Tier and later look perfect. Agree with Mimic-split, Agree with Springtrap Phantoms completely, Disagree with removing Circus Baby's Multiple Selves but agree with removing it from Scrap Baby's key, Agree on Low-Level Remnant but would argue for more, Neutral on GoldenDuo, Agree with most of the Spring Bonnie profile would just increase Remnant tier, add context on perception manip and maybe upgrade it's stats

 

[Comiphorous]

I'm only going to argue for the pittrap profile, since i made it. I have my own opinions that i don't feel like arguing against rn.

I just read the original Into the Pit to review the remaster and I think Mid-Tier Remnant might be too low of a rating for Yellow Rabbit. The Remnant remake gives Yellow Rabbit in Frights High-Tier Remnant, and in the cover of ITP the Yellow Rabbit actually has black tears on it's right eye which might be where the game got it from which has High-Tier Remnant for the reason that it has black tears. For Perception Manipulation, Jinx knew it was the yellow rabbit and was so scared that it stayed under Oswald's bed for the entire story, so I think that should be noted too. Also I feel like Human and Peak Human stats are a bit too low? At least narratively. I know Frights is it's own continuity, but I would assume that based on the statements provided for multiverse stuff that the animatronics should be built similarly to each other to some extent. Games Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street-Wall, Movie Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street, Novel Afton with Spring Bonnie is Wall, other versions of this character range from Street to Wall, but this one is Human level? Couldn'we at least make this one at least Athlete level, possibly even street if it's an animatronic made by Fazbear Entertainment which is usually known for creating 10-A to 9-C, even 9-B equipment at a similar time period? Maybe not, just feels really weird that this is the only Spring Bonnie that isn't 9-C or even 10-A.

Mid-Tier remnant is based off it's paranormal feats. while it does have implications of having agony purely based off it's existence, it doesn't show many (if any) hax beyond it's perception hax. We also don't know if it can even use said agony is has, considering it never does throughout the story.

The Yellow Rabbit isn't a normal animatronic, nor is it an actual animatronic anyways. scaling it to animatronics it has zero relation to wouldn't make much sense. Based off it's feats shown in the novel it's consistently 10-B. You could at best maybe scale it to FF Springtrap due to being a manifestation based off the suit he's wearing, but even that's super far fetched.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Mid-Tier remnant is based off feats. while it does have implications of having agony purely based off it's creation, it doesn't show many (if any) hax beyond it's perception hax. We also don't know if it can even use said agony is has, considering it never does throughout the story.

I mean tbf it uses clairvoyance to know where Oswald's house is and seemingly knows what Oswald is doing at all times which is only shared by the originals iirc, the perception hax is also shared by the originals I think. I think it's creation and the cover which the game takes from alongside the hax being similar to that of the originals could be enough for a High-Tier rating, or at least a possibly since all of the stuff links to it.

The Yellow Rabbit isn't a normal animatronic, nor is it an actual animatronic anyways. scaling it to animatronics it has zero relation to wouldn't make much sense. Based off it's feats shown in the novel it's consistently 10-B. You could at best maybe scale it to FF Springtrap due to being a manifestation based off the suit he's wearing, but even that's super far fetched.

Well it's shown easily overpowering Oswald's dad to where Oswald says "the struggle would have been cartoonish if it hadn't been so terrifiying" and Oswald occassionally gets overpowered by it pretty easily, needing to do things like "stagger" it and "get it off balance", things that 10-A characters in the Silver Eyes did to the originals. Idk about FF Springtrap especially when I think the Stitchwraith Stingers at least follow 1-FFPS to an extent but I do think due to being an agony based being created by Eleanor based on Afton as Spring Bonnie I feel like you can do better than 10-A. Definitely think Springtrap, FNaF 3 or WWF shouldn't be used as a way to upscale Pit Bonnie though, just regular Spring Bonnie Afton.

 

[Comiphorous]

I mean tbf it uses clairvoyance to know where Oswald's house is and seemingly knows what Oswald is doing at all times which is only shared by the originals iirc, the perception hax is also shared by the originals I think. I think it's creation and the cover which the game takes from alongside the hax being similar to that of the originals could be enough for a High-Tier rating, or at least a possibly since all of the stuff links to it.

I supposed i'd be okay with high-tier remnant, as long as nobody else has problems with it.

Well it's shown easily overpowering Oswald's dad to where Oswald says "the struggle would have been cartoonish if it hadn't been so terrifiying" and Oswald occassionally gets overpowered by it pretty easily, needing to do things like "stagger" it and "get it off balance", things that 10-A characters in the Silver Eyes did to the originals. Idk about FF Springtrap especially when I think the Stitchwraith Stingers at least follow 1-FFPS to an extent but I do think due to being an agony based being created by Eleanor based on Afton as Spring Bonnie I feel like you can do better than 10-A. Definitely think Springtrap, FNaF 3 or WWF shouldn't be used as a way to upscale Pit Bonnie though, just regular Spring Bonnie Afton.

Fazbear Frights scale to it's own feats rather than anything from the charlie trilogy or games. I think at best you could argue 10-A from overpowering adults, but it lacks feats and relation to any other entities to scale any higher from other entities.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Fazbear Frights scale to it's own feats rather than anything from the charlie trilogy or games. I think at best you could argue 10-A from overpowering adults, but it lacks feats and relation to any other entities to scale any higher from other entities.

I suppose 10-A is fair, I just thought 10-B was really weird for a large sized agony animatronic especially when the other continuities of it are like 9-C to 9-B.

 

[Comiphorous]

I suppose 10-A is fair, I just thought 10-B was really weird for a large sized agony animatronic especially when the other continuities of it are like 9-C to 9-B.

Eh, the tiering for Fazbear Frights is weird because most of the animatronics are stupid paranormal compared to the other continuities. They're all over the place, just look at Fazbear Frights William.

 

[Perequeliri993]

This technically isn't true, but can also be true I suppose. Matthew Lillard has once stated "But we have a bible here to pay attention to and follow. And so I think that it's important to Scott that he sort of fills in a lot of the lore questions that live in this community, and keep giving the fans of the community what they want." Scott has also said “The story really lends itself to being a movie, and it taps into a largely unexplored niche of horror that a lot of people will be able to relate to,”, possibly meaning that Scott considers the rules and logic the game has into the movie. I say you could still exclude the unification because Matthew Lillard's statement could just be his opinion and that Scott isn't focusing on filling in lore, and the Scott statement is vague enough to where he could just be making a completely alternate story that isn't meant to connect to the games, similarly to his original intent with the Silver Eyes. That's up to the thread. Not sure what would even be included with the movies, VanessaAfton evidence for the games?

The problem would be vice versa, giving the animatronics from the movies access to remnant.

I thought none of the animatronics in AR are real? I was always under the impression that AR Springtrap was just hacked into the game by Vanessa/Glitchtrap and that's why he was never found in any database. I also thought that this could explain Burntrap and what his corpse is, the corpse looks way too human to be a MImic Exoskeleton although Mimic is controlling it. Also if CassidyPrincess were to be true, Afton would have to be let go of at some point in the timeline I would think, but I would rather go with the interpretation that Afton never comes back after FFPS and that everything involving Springtrap is The Mimic/Glitchtrap

CassidyPrincess was pretty much deconfirmed after the princess' name in the files was changed from Cassidy to something else shortly some time after Game theory realesed his video.

As for the actual poin you were trying to make, pretty sure AR wasn't supposed to be a canonically game like HW, since lots of mails from the game say that they are actually sending animatronics to people's houses and also say that Springtrap is the original one.

Also to extend for main canon, while SB is undeniably within the game continuity, I think there should be a note for the game that it's all over the place because Scott and the team had major miscommunications due to covid that made Steel Wool misunderstand what Scott had intended for the story, Burntrap being one of those examples that Scott gave to which Burntrap was supposed to be a cool easter egg in the background but then became a major boss fight. It should be noted that some parts of SB are a misunderstanding between Steel Wool and Scott himself, and could be taken with a grain of salt. Idk what specifically a note would be nice though.

k

I'll check Return to the Pit later cause I've been overdue for a reread because I remember disagreeing with it's canonicity but other than that put me on agree for everything else on the canonicity. The only thing I really disagree with is having Special Delivery on dubiously canon, but the movie stuff is just things I wanted to sure but am neutral on.

Every quote below is about the Remnant page.

Low Tier Remnant

"he also can survive being mauled by animatronics (Referring to Michael)"

What is the context behind this? Do we ever know why the Scrap Animatronics (Term I came up with on the top of my head) don't kill Michael in the salvage but then kill him in the security guard section? It's not like they have any less time to kill Michael in the salvaging phases. In Sister Location, Michael also lives a jumpscare from Funtime Foxy but the goal was to knock him out for Night 4's Springlocking. I'm unsure if he actually survives a serious mauling from the Scrap Animatronics, or any less than he survived Funtime Foxy's jumpscare.

I'll admit I did kind of a lazy job with the page, only removed stuff that went along the current concerns most people had with the page, but I guess it would also be a good moment to revise some of the others.

"and Springtrap could eventually regain his heartbeat, as it is audible in FNAF 6 but not FNAF 3"

Do we know for sure if Springtrap really doesn't have a heartbeat? Are we close enough to Springtrap disregarding a jumpscare to say for sure he doesn't have one? You can't even hear Scraptrap's when he jumpscares you, so I think it's too vague to say Springtrap himself doesn't have one in 3. I wouldn't be surprised if he was in the safe room still alive, heart beating and everything especially when his vocal cords still work despite Silver Eyes telling us otherwise.

"Healing requires taking Remnant from outside sources"

This is mostly true yeah, my question would be what outside source did Springtrap get to have an audible heartbeat supposing he actually did regenerate it? If Springtrap doesn't regenerate it then this point is whatever but I'm curious on what the outside source for Springtrap would be.

Could be revised, would like other people's opinions

Mid Tier Remnant

Besides maybe Elizabeth, I don't believe that the Funtimes should be here. This is mostly due to MoltenMCI, but regardless I still think Ennard himself should upscale Puppet in terms of Remnant.

I'm sure everyone knows about MoltenMCI at this point, but as a super brief breakdown it supposes that during Follow Me of FNaF 3, The Purple Guy dismantled the animatronics to take their endoskeletons (Which are notably missing later on in Follow Me and in the Fazbear Fright location) and melted them within his lab to then use the scooper to inject the MCI's remnant into the Funtime Animatronics excluding Circus Baby who had the remnant of Elizabeth already. It explains why Henry had made a blueprint involving Molten Freddy stating that it had the most amount of remnant collected and the way Henry would collect the MCI to burn them alongside every other spirit kept into the mortal realm by Afton. More evidence is found within the link sent above, and MoltenMCI Alter-S can also work just fine, but I think since the remnant that the Funtimes have should just be the MCI's who are high tier, they should definitely be high tier remnant and not mid tier. Molten Freddy's statement of having the most remnant collected should also mean he has more remnant than Charlie, Afton (At the time of FFPS) and Elizabeth, with Ennard upscaling that due to also having Elizabeth's remnant even if MoltenMCI isn't true.

Mid Tier Remnant looks great otherwise, I would just upscale the funtimes, definitely Ennard to High tier Remnant alongside the OGs.

The main reason I did not upscale them is because of a lack of feats and because amount of remnant does not neccessarily mean an ability to use it well. If you haven't noticed, most of the feats shown in the page for higher tiers have to be shown, or are some type of action. instead of having high amounts of remnant, it's about using it.

High Tier Remnant looks perfectly fine but do we know where the creepy circus music comes from? I assume since TWB referenced a lot of the other easter eggs as doing of other characters, I would assume this came from one of the aniamtronics missing with the area? It's not on my notes when I read TWB so idk if they actually talk about it or not. (Going back to this just before clicking enter, doesn't Frights Puppet upscale Eleanor and Peak Afton? I always thought it was weird but that's an interpretation that friends who read Frights more than I have goes with. Is there a reason why Puppet would upscale Eleanor and Afton spiritually but not be Peak Tier?)

Haven't read neither TWB nor FF. I'm just guiding myself from what I'm told and understand. I guess the circus music could come from the stage? should land under Tech manip I guess.

I think the rest of the remnant page looks fine otherwise unless I go on my massive book read and find stuff to add or add context to.

100% Agree with splitting Mimic's page between Games and Tales.

great

I agree with straight up giving Springtrap the phantom animatronics. I believe that What we Found was made as a retelling of FNaF 3 to give us more context surronding the gameplay of that game such as Springtrap constantly doing things that were corresponding to Hudson's illusions implying that Springtrap is aware of Hudson's illusions, alongside Hudson burning down his house and having a horrible relationship with his step father meaning to be a twisted parallel of Michael burning down Fazbear Fright with Springtrap in it alongside Michael being heavily implied to be an abuse victim. Alongside ofc the points brought up in the OP. I understand some of the complaints with it, but I lean toward a straight up rating.

although I agree the book is likely trying to tell us that, I have stated before and I'll say it again, we are reducing cross-canonicity to remnant, since the statements from scott and etc are too vague to consider anything else.

I think for Circus Baby talking about pretending, it's about keeping calm and trying not to escape. In Night 4, Ballora is forced into the scooper at short notice according to the workers coming in to check on Ballora. Baby says that Ballora doesn't know how to pretend, which lead to her getting scopped. We also know by the end of the game that the Funtimes have been constantly trying to escape the bunker, but have failed prior. I think what Baby is trying to say is that she knows how to keep her composure and not try to randomly escape during a party, something that Ballora is incapable of doing, which is what caused her to be caught and scooped under such short notice. Michael also removes the chip from Baby, and says that he put her back together, claiming that she's "free". I think this simply means that Circus Baby's AI was within that chip, but removing the chip removed the AI and thus saved Elizabeth from having to share her body with AI that she seemingly couldn't control and explains why Elizabeth's voice is heard in Ennard. Put me on disagree for it's removal, but Scrap Baby wouldn't have it.

I think the "Free" part is meant to be a more literal version of "not trapped underground", you know, what the whole game led us to? I mostly brought up the pretending part to remark that it wouldn't be OOC for her to do it, more so since the whole game she is bassically pretending to want to help us when in reality it was just to get themselves free. She is an unrealiable narrator. Also, a flaw with your theory: Where does Circus Baby's AI end up, and why does Scrap Baby talk in Baby's voice if elizabeth supposedly talks exclusively in her human one?

I am of the belief that Withered Bonnie has to have Jeremy in there, and that the whisper under Nightmare Fredbear has to be the Crying Child similarly to how TOYSNHK speaks under the Mediorce Melodies, but if this compromise can't be made then put me on agree for giving UCN animatronics at least low level remnant.

ok

I'm SO mixed on GoldenDuo at this point. 100% think the two lights is a major stretch, Freddy's left eye is also considerably lit up.

I know, mostly put it there for completion's sake

LogbookDuo is fine but idk why it took this long for Cassidy and BV to have a conversation especially in this form if they live within the same animatronic similarly to Andrew and Jake, it might have something to do with Michael somehow linking the two up, although idk how to exactly explain that either.

I guess this isn't a point so easy to explain away. Scott likely wanted to include Mike in the book without confirming that he is the gurad in fnaf 1, so he made it in fnaf 3 instead. If I had to exaplin it, I would believe it's mostly for meta reasons.

I think GGGL is actually good evidence against GoldenDuo, as it's kinda weird that Golden Freddy is included alongside the others as having a single soul that is being given life (Puppet doesn't give life to Cassidy I think, I think Cassidy does it themself due to their high level agony),

because CC was already a soul by that point? he was not given life by puppet, he was laready a soul by then.

this also begs the question of why Cassidy and the MCI are by themself in Follow Me and Happiest Day if BV is meant to be connected to Golden Freddy or the MCI.

For Follow Me: He doesn't have a vendetta against his father, why would he be there?

For Happiest Day: CC is the one being given cake, Cassidy is not there because she can't rest, and thus, can't be in the happiest day.

Or it was retconned. For example, in the GIVE CAKE minigame we hear SAVEHIM and then see Charlotte being murdered, meaning she was originally a boy.

For the Bite of 83 thing, I actually saw an interesting point another day where the agony of BV attached onto Golden Freddy which caused the animatronic to bite Ralph in response to the Bite of 83, rather than it literally being BV. Under LogBookDuo, BV cannot see and it would be very hard to believe that BV would be capable of recreating the BO83 under this.

I actually agree with the actual Remnant page on how the Happiest Day came to be:

• Memory Manipulation (Jake could change Andrew and Millie's memories to positive ones and could also let Andrew access his own memories and could create a new memory of Millie reuniting with her grandfather. The Puppet could recreate the FNAF 4 birthday party in the Happiest Day)

It was likely made by Puppet and maybe RWQFSFASXC from CC's memories, made happier ones.

Atm for GoldenDuo put me on Netural however I'm more leaning disagree more than I am agree. I used to be the biggest advocate for GoldenDuo, in fact it's still one of my favorite theories because I love the idea of BV and Cassidy being a duo in Golden Freddy and possibly being a parallel of Gregory and Cassie, but to me the evidence against it seems really strong atp.

I find that the strongest pieces of evidence, the ones coming from TWB, were not addressed in your comment, which is why I'm mostly convinced in GoldenDuo, by stacking the previous evidence with TWB's ones.

I just read the original Into the Pit to review the remaster and I think Mid-Tier Remnant might be too low of a rating for Yellow Rabbit. The Remnant remake gives Yellow Rabbit in Frights High-Tier Remnant, and in the cover of ITP the Yellow Rabbit actually has black tears on it's right eye which might be where the game got it from which has High-Tier Remnant for the reason that it has black tears. For Perception Manipulation, Jinx knew it was the yellow rabbit and was so scared that it stayed under Oswald's bed for the entire story, so I think that should be noted too. Also I feel like Human and Peak Human stats are a bit too low? At least narratively. I know Frights is it's own continuity, but I would assume that based on the statements provided for multiverse stuff that the animatronics should be built similarly to each other to some extent. Games Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street-Wall, Movie Afton with Spring Bonnie is Street, Novel Afton with Spring Bonnie is Wall, other versions of this character range from Street to Wall, but this one is Human level? Couldn'we at least make this one at least Athlete level, possibly even street if it's an animatronic made by Fazbear Entertainment which is usually known for creating 10-A to 9-C, even 9-B equipment at a similar time period? Maybe not, just feels really weird that this is the only Spring Bonnie that isn't 9-C or even 10-A.

Not an expert in FF stuff, talk to Comiphorous, although, I see that's already done.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

The problem would be vice versa, giving the animatronics from the movies access to remnant.

I think it was more specifically that whatever lore is given from the movie should apply to the games in the smallest extent. Remnant was not an idea pre FFPS iirc, so the movies probably won't cover it unless they pull a TFC for FNaF 3. If anything would cross to the movies, it would probably be stuff from 1-3 alone, not things that come after it.

CassidyPrincess was pretty much deconfirmed after the princess' name in the files was changed from Cassidy to something else shortly some time after Game theory realesed his video.

As for the actual poin you were trying to make, pretty sure AR wasn't supposed to be a canonically game like HW, since lots of mails from the game say that they are actually sending animatronics to people's houses and also say that Springtrap is the original one.

I don't think it has to be deconfirmed but I do agree that it's very weak. You do have the fact that it's a yellow princess that has OMC as a wise man who appears in the minigame, alongside the princess specifically fighting an alternate version of Afton with HW2 having the graves for Charlie and the MCI. I just think the connections are too weak to confirm it, although just noting that CassidyPrincess and even Fright parallels suppose that Cassidy doesn't need to have William trapped forever.

For Springtrap, I decided to pull up the mail just to be sure. We get the following:

“Couple of weird customer reports

Hey Tristan,

We've been getting some weird reports here in Customer Service that I don't really know how to respond to.

A handful of our more hardcore users of the service have been reporting service calls from an animatronic that isn't appearing anywhere in our database. Some kind of vintage Bonnie model. A couple of people have mentioned a really bad smell from it as well.

Is it possible some old second hand model somehow made it into our deployment rotation?

Izzy”

Apparently Springtrap hasn't just been sent to one house as one animatronic, but has been sent to several, likely as copies which I supposed was by Glitchtrap after hacking into Fazbear Entertainment through Vanessa. I don't think they say it's the original, just that it's a vintage Bonnie model that smells really bad.

I'll admit I did kind of a lazy job with the page, only removed stuff that went along the current concerns most people had with the page, but I guess it would also be a good moment to revise some of the others.

Could be revised, would like other people's opinions

Yeah some of the things I listed were kinda minor that don't really change alot lol. Just small things I noticed and questioned.

The main reason I did not upscale them is because of a lack of feats and because amount of remnant does not neccessarily mean an ability to use it well. If you haven't noticed, most of the feats shown in the page for higher tiers have to be shown, or are some type of action. instead of having high amounts of remnant, it's about using it.

Well it's not that the funtimes have "high amounts and thus should be High-Tier", it's specifically that they literally have the same remnant as the standard for High Tiers. It's not a copy either, it's the original burned up and taken from the originals which were then installed into the Funtimes. I suppose that Funtimes and Molten aren't shown using them because it would be completely unfair gameplay wise, which would be consistent as all of the FNaF 1 hax mostly come from TWB, and Springtrap's illusion hax are much more broken in TWB. Maybe the Funtimes wouldn't be upgraded to high tier but I think Ennard definitely should.

although I agree the book is likely trying to tell us that, I have stated before and I'll say it again, we are reducing cross-canonicity to remnant, since the statements from scott and etc are too vague to consider anything else.

The statements from Scott verbatim tell us to use these books to fill in gaps in the past though? Even at a minimal level, Scott wants us to at least look into the book and use it as evidence to push what might've happened in the timeline. Andrew might not be the vengeful spirit in the games, but he's meant to give us light on what Cassidy does to Afton, and you can look back at UCN to see how that actually makes more sense. Same with WWF, Hudson seems to parallel Michael and his past as mentioned seem to parallel Michael and makes Michael's case of being the Fright Guard much stronger because of that connection. I wouldn't use Frights or any other continuity as a base for my claims, but as secondary evidence as long as the games has a considerable amount of evidence already for me to suppose that Scott is trying to give us an indirect answer through the books. I think using it for lore is much more blatant than just sticking it to Remnant imo, since the statements at least
tell you to look at Frights for filling holes left in the story.

I think the "Free" part is meant to be a more literal version of "not trapped underground", you know, what the whole game led us to? I mostly brought up the pretending part to remark that it wouldn't be OOC for her to do it, more so since the whole game she is bassically pretending to want to help us when in reality it was just to get themselves free. She is an unrealiable narrator. Also, a flaw with your theory: Where does Circus Baby's AI end up, and why does Scrap Baby talk in Baby's voice if elizabeth supposedly talks exclusively in her human one?

It's kinda weird because Michael seems to let them all go through this conclusion, it wouldn't exclusive to just Elizabeth. The whole idea of "putting her back together" would seem weird as a conclusion for "I let her out of the underground bunker, now she's put back together!", it seems like a really odd conclusion. It wouldn't be OOC for her to pretend, but she explains what she means by her pretending and comparing it to Ballora who can't keep her composure and freaks out attempting to leave, I don't think Elizabeth is pretending to really be Circus Baby but rather Circus Baby is pretending to be perfectly fine so she doesn't get caught and scopped. She may be unreliable but the things that we are discussing are things that are backed up by the fact that Ballora "malfunctioned" and needed immediate scooping, I don't think you can really question that. For the flaw, the AI is in the chip and that's what Michael is listening to. The chip was most likely disposed of or left behind while Elizabeth and the rest left as Ennard, and I don't think I said that Elizabeth only talks in her human one, just that her human voice is only used after the chip is gone. The Funtimes all have voice boxes I would assume, and Elizabeth can use both like the other animatronics.

I guess this isn't a point so easy to explain away. Scott likely wanted to include Mike in the book without confirming that he is the gurad in fnaf 1, so he made it in fnaf 3 instead. If I had to exaplin it, I would believe it's mostly for meta reasons.

I feel like unless the LogBook happens literally right after the MCI, the timing is way too long. The spirits should be active before FNaF 2, right? If we suppose that the logbook dialogue is meant to happen in FNaF 1, or even FNaF 2, the MCI happens in 1985 while FNaF 2 is 1987 and FNaF 1 is probably 1993, but anytime post 1987. This means that Cassidy and BV probably took 2, 8, 30 (Assuming FNaF32015 which I personally believe) or even 38 years to even discuss with each other and for Cassidy to ask BV questions. I think Cassidy asks questions that Mike can relate to as well, such as the purple phone which if we assume Michael is Foxybro and the FNaF 4 dreamer then that would be in his room, Logbook just makes things so much more complicated lol

because CC was already a soul by that point? he was not given life by puppet, he was laready a soul by then.

It's giving life to the animatronics. Puppet gives gifts to the children, which I assume is the suits (although Afton likely stuffed them in there), but then Puppet gives the animatronics life through the spirits. Golden Freddy wouldn't need to be given life alongside the rest of them if he already had a life through BV.

For Follow Me: He doesn't have a vendetta against his father, why would he be there?

For Happiest Day: CC is the one being given cake, Cassidy is not there because she can't rest, and thus, can't be in the happiest day.

Or it was retconned. For example, in the GIVE CAKE minigame we hear SAVEHIM and then see Charlotte being murdered, meaning she was originally a boy.

Follow Me: The five animatronics are always in the same spot together, this has always been a consistent thing. Although he doesn't have a vendetta, by proxy of being linked to the core 5 BV should be there. Cassidy was not dismantled by Afton, yet Cassidy is there with the MCI anyway because they're all linked to each other. This is the one issue I have with GoldenDuo, Golden Freddy is always treated as one spirit in every appearance that relates to the spirits besides probably TWB, so it makes it hard to believe there's 2.

Happiest Day: Oh so we're going with BVReceiver? What's the BVReceiver evidence, that Cassidy can't rest and thus she can't be in happiest day? It's kinda weird that the fifth spirit in the happiest day is a spirit that hasn't been introduced yet, and not the fifth MCI member that is always linked with the other 4. Happiest Day can happen anywhere in the timeline tbf, or it could not even happen at all with Molten Freddy being somewhat of a representation of that. OMC tells Cassidy to finally rest, HD could happen after that with 49/20 cutscene siginifying that Cassidy is finally letting Afton go to hell and going to HD alone at a birthday party.

For the retconned point, Scott has clarified that up to SIster Location, he had only retconned one thing. Other than that, he clarifies that he doesn't go off in terms of retcons, and more specifically that he expands on his original idea without changing it completely. BV is a FNaF 4 character who has always had a deep connection with Golden Freddy, but I don't think that Scott had the idea in FNaF 3 that the final spirit would be a random kid that he wasn't intending on expanding considering that 3 was supposed to be the final game. If it was retconned, it would have to be after that, but BV filling in as the second Golden Freddy kid while also suddenly being the Cake Receiver would be a pretty big retcon, something Scott clarifies that he doesn't do on a whim. The Give Cake minigame could always be interpreted as The Puppet's gender, which we know that he was a male mostly based on UCN but then clarified that the spirit was a girl in FFPS since FFPS was the game where Scott wanted to tie up loose ends and clarifiy all of the confusion people had, which I believe was partly caused by Novel only characters like Charlotte and William, which PuppetBoy and MikeTrap surfacing. I just don't think Scott would make a major retcon making BV so relevant, he says so himself.

I actually agree with the actual Remnant page on how the Happiest Day came to be:

• Memory Manipulation (Jake could change Andrew and Millie's memories to positive ones and could also let Andrew access his own memories and could create a new memory of Millie reuniting with her grandfather. The Puppet could recreate the FNAF 4 birthday party in the Happiest Day)

It was likely made by Puppet and maybe RWQFSFASXC from CC's memories, made happier ones.

I also agree that The Puppet made Happiest Day on CC's memories, I think that was a gap that Scott could fill without retconning anything specifically, and World seems to push this idea. That's the specific thing though: CC's memories, not with CC being a direct part of Happiest Day. This would support the idea that TWB is just BV's agony, rather than BV literally being within Golden Freddy. We're kinda getting into ShatterVictim stuff which I lowkey don't agree with nor do I wanna push into but I kinda lean towards any connection to BV during HD or Golden Freddy is just agony being taken by Puppet or Golden Freddy and replicating his memories.

I find that the strongest pieces of evidence, the ones coming from TWB, were not addressed in your comment, which is why I'm mostly convinced in GoldenDuo, by stacking the previous evidence with TWB's ones.

The agony part does tramble on the biggest TWB evidence that literally everyone talks about regarding the Bite of 83 creation. The second bullet point is decent but the third one is taken OOC I think. To pull it up specifically:

"Garbled whispering ... the sound of a child crying. And then a deep, distorted voice in a burst of static says, “It’s me.”"

Nothing says that the two voices aren't the same voice but distorted. It's not that the crying and distorted voice are happening in tandem, the wording used is "And then", saying that there's children crying, and then after that there's a deep distorted voice saying "it's me". This doesn't have to be in tandem, so I chose to not mention it cause I didn't think it was that strong on it's own. Additionally, in TWB the term "it's me" is actually spread across the animatronics. In fact, in FNaF 1 when Foxy leaves Pirate's Cove, there's a chance that the sign there says "It's Me". In TWB specifically, Phone Guy says "it's me" on page 213 of the link you sent, Brown says that Jeremy got her with then her saying "It's me" on page 229, Freddy Fazbear laughs "It's me" on page 236, Chica says "it's me" on page 248, Freddy says It's me on page 254. Unironically TWB might be the worst piece of FNaF media to argue "It's Me" linked to GF for since I believe it's the only media that has everyone else also use the term. But yeah the second bullet point is decent evidence assuming that Golden Freddy's illusion hax doesn't allow them to not only send words to Ralph's head, but also speak out loud.

Not an expert in FF stuff, talk to Comiphorous, although, I see that's already done.

Yep I think everything there was resolved. Assuming the stuff I added gets bumped, add me to agree on that profile.

 

[Comiphorous]

The statements from Scott verbatim tell us to use these books to fill in gaps in the past though? Even at a minimal level, Scott wants us to at least look into the book and use it as evidence to push what might've happened in the timeline. Andrew might not be the vengeful spirit in the games, but he's meant to give us light on what Cassidy does to Afton, and you can look back at UCN to see how that actually makes more sense. Same with WWF, Hudson seems to parallel Michael and his past as mentioned seem to parallel Michael and makes Michael's case of being the Fright Guard much stronger because of that connection. I wouldn't use Frights or any other continuity as a base for my claims, but as secondary evidence as long as the games has a considerable amount of evidence already for me to suppose that Scott is trying to give us an indirect answer through the books. I think using it for lore is much more blatant than just sticking it to Remnant imo, since the statements at least
tell you to look at Frights for filling holes left in the story.

at that point if the games have a considerable amount of evidence already, just use that evidence. no need to mix continuities.

We're separating them not because they're not vaguely-not-so-well-explained canon to each other, (obviously scott has said the opposite) but because it's become absurdly difficult to manage one continuity when all three of them are being mixed together and gives versions of certain characters abilities they've never showcased in that version. It's for accuracy on how they're represented in each specific continuity. It's easier for staff, supporters, and makes them more accurate to their version.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

at that point if the games have a considerable amount of evidence already, just use that evidence. no need to mix continuities.

We're separating them not because they're not abstractly canon to each other, (obviously scott has said the opposite) but because it's become absurdly difficult to manage one continuity when all three of them are being mixed together and gives versions of certain characters abilities they've never showcased in that version. It's for accuracy on how they're represented in each specific continuity.

I kinda can't ignore the other continuity when that continuity is a retelling of an existing game, with details that share across each other like the Phantoms for example. What we Found is really good secondary evidence where FNaF 3 becomes much more clearer, and I would feel weird straight up ignoring it when they're meant to connect, at least according to Scott anyway.

I understand the separation, and my canonicity standards come more as a theorist trying to solve the full story rather than a power scaler trying to give characters abilities they straight up shouldn't have, but in the case of the Phantoms, or as mentioned before Cassidy being the Vengeful Spirit, I think it would be better to include that these stories give expansions on specific stories that Scott wants us to use to understand the story more. The only lines I cross is trying to insert a Frights only character into the games because we already have characters who fit that gap very well, that's why I'm not coming into this revision wanting to add HudsonGuard or AndrewTOYSNHK in the Games, but I think Frights can be used as a gateway to understand the story much easier and should be used in a case by case basis. I hope that makes my stance more clear.

 

[Comiphorous]

I kinda can't ignore the other continuity when that continuity is a retelling of an existing game, with details that share across each other like the Phantoms for example. What we Found is really good secondary evidence where FNaF 3 becomes much more clearer, and I would feel weird straight up ignoring it when they're meant to connect, at least according to Scott anyway.

I understand the separation, and my canonicity standards come more as a theorist trying to solve the full story rather than a power scaler trying to give characters abilities they straight up shouldn't have, but in the case of the Phantoms, or as mentioned before Cassidy being the Vengeful Spirit, I think it would be better to include that these stories give expansions on specific stories that Scott wants us to use to understand the story more. The only lines I cross is trying to insert a Frights only character into the games because we already have characters who fit that gap very well, that's why I'm not coming into this revision wanting to add HudsonGuard or AndrewTOYSNHK in the Games, but I think Frights can be used as a gateway to understand the story much easier and should be used in a case by case basis. I hope that makes my stance more clear.

We are purely separating abilities from continuity to continuity. We are basically taking note that certain events may carry over from continuity to continuity, but it may not have happened exactly as the same way between those continuities due to various factors that i list below and hence won't compile all the versions together as it would not accurately portray the separate versions of the characters.

We know that some books are semi-sort-of-sometimes-canon, but due to factors such as not knowing if the specific book in question is canon due to Scott's statement implying such a possibility and characters differing character-wise from continuity to continuity, for the sake of the accuracy of that continuity's version of a character they're separated for accurate profiling purposes.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

We are purely separating abilities from continuity to continuity. We are basically taking note that certain events may carry over from continuity to continuity, but it may not have happened exactly as the same way between those continuities due to various factors that i list below and hence won't compile all the versions together as it would not accurately portray the separate versions of the characters.

We know that some books are semi-sort-of-sometimes-canon, but due to factors such as not knowing if the specific book in question is canon due to Scott's statement implying such a possibility and characters differing character-wise from continuity to continuity, for the sake of the accuracy of that continuity's version of a character they're separated for accurate profiling purposes.

I don't think events that happen in Frights and like Tales happen in the games timeline, as I don't think Frights and Tales take place in the same continuity as the games. However I still think that if Remnant is being shared across continuities despite being portrayed differently (At least from what I understand, Frights carries the series in terms of power scaling and abilities thanks to it's usage of remnant lol), then really blatant retellings and things consistent among continuities should also stick too. The most I would ask for is keeping the separation between profile of course, but if you can use another continuity to explain something rather than adding it, I think it should be used while acknowledging that said things comes from this continuity, but it's allowed because Scott has said we're allowed to do these things. I would never ask to start adding 50,000 hax to Afton's game profile because he does it in Frights, I have this issue myself when getting into power scaling discussions with Springtrap because he never does like 90% of these things in the games, but I do think it would be neat to at least let things in Frights expand things within the game profile without completely adding things that are nonsensical.

I really hope I'm making sense because I feel like I'm rambling and I never get a good conclusion when talking about canon lol. More specifically I don't want to give Afton like Magnetism Manipulation because he can do this even without the help of Eleanor because outside of maybe Charlie Trilogy Springtrap is literally never shown or implied to be capable of doing this, but I wouldn't be opposed for using What we Found illusions to be huge backing for Phantoms being Springtrap when it's at least consistent that illusion based things happen in Fazbear Fright when the Guard is dealing with and is near Springtrap. Just to clarify though I think Scott once said that different continuities are still canon he said like they're just in their own universe rather than being mixed together, I personally think the only books within continuity (With actual story, so not including the Logbook) is the Interactive Novels. Just setting that so it doesn't sound like I'm trying to mix Frights and Tales continuity within the games because I really dislike FrightsGames and would be really upset if Frights was actually in continuity with the games.

 

[Comiphorous]

I don't think events that happen in Frights and like Tales happen in the games timeline, as I don't think Frights and Tales take place in the same continuity as the games. However I still think that if Remnant is being shared across continuities despite being portrayed differently (At least from what I understand, Frights carries the series in terms of power scaling and abilities thanks to it's usage of remnant lol), then really blatant retellings and things consistent among continuities should also stick too. The most I would ask for is keeping the separation between profile of course, but if you can use another continuity to explain something rather than adding it, I think it should be used while acknowledging that said things comes from this continuity, but it's allowed because Scott has said we're allowed to do these things. I would never ask to start adding 50,000 hax to Afton's game profile because he does it in Frights, I have this issue myself when getting into power scaling discussions with Springtrap because he never does like 90% of these things in the games, but I do think it would be neat to at least let things in Frights expand things within the game profile without completely adding things that are nonsensical.

That's basically what's happening. Remnant is still allowed to use Fazbear Frights content, just under certain circumstances such as the ability being a basic aspect of Remnant, several characters showcase the same ability, (and when I say same i do mean the same ability, not just a vaguely similar like it is current on the remnant page) etc.

I really hope I'm making sense because I feel like I'm rambling and I never get a good conclusion when talking about canon lol. More specifically I don't want to give Afton like Magnetism Manipulation because he can do this even without the help of Eleanor because outside of maybe Charlie Trilogy Springtrap is literally never shown or implied to be capable of doing this, but I wouldn't be opposed for using What we Found illusions to be huge backing for Phantoms being Springtrap when it's at least consistent that illusion based things happen in Fazbear Fright when the Guard is dealing with and is near Springtrap. Just to clarify though I think Scott once said that different continuities are still canon he said like they're just in their own universe rather than being mixed together, I personally think the only books within continuity (With actual story, so not including the Logbook) is the Interactive Novels. Just setting that so it doesn't sound like I'm trying to mix Frights and Tales continuity within the games because I really dislike FrightsGames and would be really upset if Frights was actually in continuity with the games.

Unfortunately, we would not use What we Found for games phantoms evidence due to them not being anywhere close to the same type of illusions. It just wouldn't make sense to cross-scale those feats between each other so that games william can concretely have the phantoms, and would cause the very problem that we're trying to fix, which is that other versions of the characters are capable of things they shouldn't because a separate canon showed something else. I'm okay with just giving games springtrap a possibly and calling it day atp though since people seem to be very adamant on it.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

That's basically what's happening. Remnant is still allowed to use Fazbear Frights content, just under certain circumstances such as the ability being a basic aspect of Remnant, several characters showcase the same ability, (and when I say same i do mean the same ability, not just a vaguely similar like it is current on the remnant page) etc.

My question then is like, isn't illusions like a common ability among even the high tier animatronics? Like TWB, a expansion on FNaF 1 reveals that a lot of the easter eggs are done by the OGs, whether it's Foxy or Freddy. Every ITP variant gives PitBonnie weird illusion hax, Golden Freddy is the most notorious illusion hax character in FNaF alive that gets even more expanded upon and broken in TWB, and then WWF brings back Springtrap in a FNaF 3 setting where the Fright Guard is dealing with constant hallucinations, but this time the hallucinations are much more potent with Springtrap having clear as day evidence to being the one causing them. I suppose what I want to ask is, why share remnant as a general ability, with illusions being something that is commonly done by remnant users which Springtrap in Frights share, but wouldn't share that in FNaF 3 with Phantoms being an inclusion to that? I sound super repetitive so an answer to this would probably satisfy me enough.

Unfortunately, we would not use What we Found for games phantoms evidence due to them not being anywhere close to the same type of illusions. It just wouldn't make sense to cross-scale those feats between each other so that games william can concretely have the phantoms, and would cause the very problem that we're trying to fix, which is that other versions of the characters are capable of things they shouldn't because a separate canon showed something else. I'm okay with just giving games springtrap a possibly and calling it day atp though since people seem to be very adamant on it.

I think the context of it just being FNaF 3 with Hudson instead of Michael and it being a story where Scott doesn't have to worry about balancing and can make the illusions do whatever is enough to compare it but I won't repeat what I said above. I can probably argue against evidence given to say he isn't controlling the Phantoms in game continuity I suppose.

 

[Comiphorous]

I suppose what I want to ask is, why share remnant as a general ability, with illusions being something that is commonly done by remnant users which Springtrap in Frights share, but wouldn't share that in FNaF 3 with Phantoms being an inclusion to that? I sound super repetitive so an answer to this would probably satisfy me enough.

Illusions vary in potency from character to character that it makes more sense to list their individual capabilities on their profile rather than composite all the illusion feats onto the remnant page and have someone who does basic ass illusions like changing posters into being capable of manifesting people's memories to harm someone. It just doesn't make sense for it to be like that. It's as I keep saying not accurate to the character's portrayed capabilities. The remnant page is a baseline for everyone, we can’t use abnormally high showings to change what everyone else is capable of in the series.

I think the context of it just being FNaF 3 with Hudson instead of Michael and it being a story where Scott doesn't have to worry about balancing and can make the illusions do whatever is enough to compare it but I won't repeat what I said above. I can probably argue against evidence given to say he isn't controlling the Phantoms in game continuity I suppose.

But theres the problem. FNaF 3 occurs differently in Fazbear Frights than in the Games. We can't cross them together if events blatantly occur differently because they're different continuities. We separate continuities all the time with every other franchise regardless on how similar they may happen to be, and this is the only verse ever that has this big of a problem with separating them like everyone else.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Illusions vary in potency from character to character that it makes more sense to list their individual capabilities on their profile rather than composite all the illusion feats onto the remnant page and have someone who does basic ass illusions like changing posters into being capable of manifesting people's memories to harm someone. It just doesn't make sense for it to be like that. It's as I keep saying not accurate to the character's portrayed capabilities.

I suppose, but I also think the illusions vary mostly because of game mechanics? Freddy in FNaF 1 was never making Ralph look like Freddy forever, nor was Golden Freddy using illusions that made your nose bleed and completely crush your mind. I view the novels as a way to expand on the characters abilities where the games cannot due to gameplay limitations. TWB is just the biggest example of this that I can think of the top of my head that isn't WWF. Illusions vary in potency from character to character that it makes more sense to list their individual capabilities on their profile rather than composite all the illusion feats onto the remnant page and have someone who does basic ass illusions like changing posters into being capable of manifesting people's memories to harm someone. It just doesn't make sense for it to be like that. It's as I keep saying not accurate to the character's portrayed capabilities.

But theres the problem. FNaF 3 occurs differently in Fazbear Frights than in the Games. We can't cross them together if events blatantly occur differently because they're different continuities. We separate continuities all the time with every other franchise regardless on how similar they may happen to be, and this is the only verse ever that has this big of a problem with separating them like everyone else.

We separate continuities but I actually had a case when revising Danganronpa where a feat in Danganronpa V3 was basically one to one and practically an direct intimation of one in an alternate continuity (The Hopes Peak Games), and thus despite them being in different continuities there was enough comparisons and evidence for them being the same thing, and thus the feat were put on both profiles. Here, Springtrap is fighting the Fright Guard with illusions that are constantly messing with them, one only being more potent than the other due to gameplay restricting the abilities of Springtrap similarly to the FNaF 1 animatronics as shown in TWB. I also don't believe Danganronpa has any statements clarifying that V3 is meant to be used to expand on Hopes Peak unlike FNaF which does for Frights, so using standards of the wiki I think we have more going for us to use WWF as evidence as well.

Side note when you come back Perequeliri993, change my Springtrap Phantom thing to possibly as a compromise unless the Frights thing gets fully solved. I still think Springtrap definitely has Phantoms even with Games but I think it's best to go with the best and general consensus of the wiki which seems to be a possibly rather than a straight up rating or vise versa.

 

[Comiphorous]

I suppose, but I also think the illusions vary mostly because of game mechanics? Freddy in FNaF 1 was never making Ralph look like Freddy forever, nor was Golden Freddy using illusions that made your nose bleed and completely crush your mind. I view the novels as a way to expand on the characters abilities where the games cannot due to gameplay limitations. TWB is just the biggest example of this that I can think of the top of my head that isn't WWF.

the difference between TWB and WWF is that TWB is a canon prequel to FNaF and happened in the same continuity to the games, while WWF is a retelling of events in the games from another continuity which isn’t clearly said how canon it actually is.

We separate continuities but I actually had a case when revising Danganronpa where a feat in Danganronpa V3 was basically one to one and practically an direct intimation of one in an alternate continuity (The Hopes Peak Games), and thus despite them being in different continuities there was enough comparisons and evidence for them being the same thing, and thus the feat were put on both profiles. Here, Springtrap is fighting the Fright Guard with illusions that are constantly messing with them, one only being more potent than the other due to gameplay restricting the abilities of Springtrap similarly to the FNaF 1 animatronics as shown in TWB. I also don't believe Danganronpa has any statements clarifying that V3 is meant to be used to expand on Hopes Peak unlike FNaF which does for Frights, so using standards of the wiki I think we have more going for us to use WWF as evidence as well.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. What danganronpa does in the site is unknown to me, but what you’re asking for is why fnaf got nuked off the site once already. What they did probably isn’t as big as merging 3 different continuities together which aren’t even 100% canon to each other.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

the difference between TWB and WWF is that TWB is a canon prequel to FNaF and happened in the same continuity to the games, while WWF is a retelling of events in the games from another continuity which isn’t clearly said how canon it actually is.

I suppose, it's just an example that just because WWF shows abilities that weren't shown in the same extent as FNaF 3 doesn't mean that it necessarily contradicts, just that Scott was limited due to gameplay. What you said is completely true though.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. What danganronpa does in the site is unknown to me, but what you’re asking for is why fnaf got nuked off the site once already. What they did probably isn’t as big as merging 3 different continuities together.

FNaF got nuked prior???? That's crazy but I'm not suggesting a verse wide continuity merge, just using other continuities as secondary evidence as long as it aligns while still keeping them as their own profiles and thus their own continuities. I don't think its wrong if it was accepted though.

 

[Comiphorous]

I suppose, it's just an example that just because WWF shows abilities that weren't shown in the same extent as FNaF 3 doesn't mean that it necessarily contradicts, just that Scott was limited due to gameplay. What you said is completely true though.

Yeah but it’s got better wiggle room when it’s from the same continuity, that’s basically what it comes down to. We have no issue with giving the remnant page the week before hax but when it comes to other continuities we get skeptical.

FNaF got nuked prior???? That's crazy but I'm not suggesting a verse wide continuity merge, just using other continuities as secondary evidence as long as it aligns while still keeping them as their own profiles and thus their own continuities. I don't think its wrong if it was accepted though.

Oh yeah. It got big time nuked due to a mixture of theories being used and a mix of continuities (especially William’s page, who had the agony on his games page) making them so filled with misinformation or just blatantly incorrect statistics for that version of the character it was easier to nuke the whole verse off the site than to fix it.

We’re basically just avoiding that situation again by keeping them separate.

 

[ShionAH]

Phantoms are DEF Springtrap's, Fazbear Frights basically directly confirms it and its REALLY consistent with what Spirits can do in FnaF.

What is the context behind this? Do we ever know why the Scrap Animatronics don't kill Michael in the salvage but then kill him in the security guard section? It's not like they have any less time to kill Michael in the salvaging phases.

They would have much more time to kill him in the night time (literally up to 6 hours) but when they have less time (salvages which are seemingly short interactions and where Michael has a way to escape) Michael is able to survive the attacks.

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Yeah but it’s got better wiggle room when it’s from the same continuity, that’s basically what it comes down to. We have no issue with giving the remnant page the week before hax but when it comes to other continuities we get skeptical.

Oh yeah. It got big time nuked due to a mixture of theories being used and a mix of continuities (especially William’s page, who had the agony on his games page) making them so filled with misinformation or just blatantly incorrect statistics for that version of the character it was easier to nuke the whole verse off the site than to fix it.

We’re basically just avoiding that situation again by keeping them separate.

Understandable, none of the things The Agony shows is stuff Games Springtrap is shown to do, even if in the context of Frights forming The Agony isn't even something he needs from Eleanor while being heavily weakened. Still under the opinion that secondary evidence can be used with enough connections but yeah I understand.

Phantoms are DEF Springtrap's, Fazbear Frights basically directly confirms it and its REALLY consistent with what Spirits can do in FnaF.

They would have much more time to kill him in the night time (literally up to 6 hours) but when they have less time (salvages which are seemingly short interactions and where Michael has a way to escape) Michael is able to survive the attacks.

Agree with first point obviously. Although what makes Salvages short is that Michael constantly keeps them in check during the entire process with shocks and throws them out after 6 sounds. The animatronics presumably catch him off guard if they jumpscare him, lung at him and cause the red burst screen as they do during jumpscares in the guard section. If there were to be an interference, the salvaging sections could take way longer. We don't exactly know the full context on why they just let Michael survive and where his escape options are during the salvages and in the vent. I think it's just way too vague to include.

 

[ShionAH]

Although what makes Salvages short is that Michael constantly keeps them in check during the entire process with shocks and throws them out after 6 sounds. The animatronics presumably catch him off guard if they jumpscare him, lung at him and cause the red burst screen as they do during jumpscares in the guard section. If there were to be an interference, the salvaging sections could take way longer. We don't exactly know the full context on why they just let Michael survive and where his escape options are during the salvages and in the vent. I think it's just way too vague to include.

I dont think its vague at all. Feat is clear, Michael is attacked but survives despite having far less strength than any of the animatronics.

And don’t even imply William would “let Michael survive”, thats just silly