Kamen Rider Kuuga vs Trafalgar Law

Edit: due of complexity of Emilia have and her cons for being in here, she has been replaced by Trafalgar Law
Edit 2: Damn, so the two are kind of way too much for the tourney, so in the end both are disqualified, but this match still continuing as a regular fight

Let's begin now

---

• Ultimate Form Kuuga and Punk Hazard Law are used
• To make it fairer, Kuuga wouldn't use the Dual Rising Titan Sword
• Speed are equalized
• Both are in-characters
• Starting Range: 100 Meters
• Win by anything (K.O and incapacitation)

---

THE VOTES

• The Surgeon of Ibuprofen overdose (36.47 Gigatons): 0
• FEAR, PAIN, AAAAAAAAA- (61.49 Gigatons): 0
• Inconclusive: 0

---

 

[Shadowslash125]

Uhhh funni plasma flame manip via atomic manipulation

 

[MysticBrawler]

You know I was gonna say that Trafalgar Law would end up stomping the tournament due to his Spatial Manipulation,(coupled with his Precognition and Resistance Negation) but it turns out that among the participants 11 of them might actually stand a chance against him. With that said, while I'm not sure if this 2/3rds of the participants getting stomped would be considered "fair enough" at the very least it doesn't seem like he will completely sweep the tournament

 

[Greatsage13th]

With that said, while I'm not sure if this 2/3rds of the participants getting stomped would be considered "fair enough" at the very least it doesn't seem like he will completely sweep the tournament

That's quite alright. Because that will occur for some.

 

[Kachon123]

Voting Law. He's way too lethal and has way too many ways to end the fight, such as personality swapping Kuuga with a weak creature, taking out his heart, spatially dismantling him, BFRing him into a nearby body of water with Shambles and holding him there with his far superior LS using Takt, dura neg attacks like Gamma Knife, and simple hand to hand combat.

 

[Shadowslash125]

We're already counting votes when I haven't even laid down an actual argument beyond his gesture-based plasma ignition, that everyone is conveniently assuming that doesn't exists?

 

[Kachon123]

We're already counting votes when I haven't even laid down an actual argument beyond his gesture-based plasma ignition, that everyone is conveniently assuming that doesn't exists?

Everything Law does is also gesture-based. Quite literally finger movements.

 

[Tatsumi504]

We're already counting votes when I haven't even laid down an actual argument beyond his gesture-based plasma ignition, that everyone is conveniently assuming that doesn't exists?

Honestly don't get why that is even allowed given it ***** up most characters in the tourney but what are the other wincons

 

[Nonynho]

We're already counting votes when I haven't even laid down an actual argument beyond his gesture-based plasma ignition, that everyone is conveniently assuming that doesn't exists?

yeah, both i and Kachon already argued with stuff that Kuuga can't deal with...like Haki.
What's to argue beyond that, show me, please

Other than that, also add me in for Law, FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Actually, quick question. Is K-Room part of his arsenal in this key of his? 100 meters is quite the range, and in theory Kuuga ultimately outranges him. In this context, only his K-Room can hit him with that big of a range.

Also, what's Law's fastest utilisation of his Room, could you give me a scan of that? Kuuga just needs to raise his hand to spawn and convert the atoms in Law's body into plasma. If he's fast enough to do his room thing first, then yea Kuuga's kinda in his mercy, although that depends on what he does in character first. for Ultimate Kuuga in this key, it's always igniting his opponents.

 

[Kachon123]

Actually, quick question. Is K-Room part of his arsenal in this key of his?

No.

100 meters is quite the range, and in theory Kuuga ultimately outranges him. In this context, only his K-Room can hit him with that big of a range.

That is a mistake with indexing. Law's range with even his normal slashes is however big he makes his Room, which can range from several hundred meters to tens of kilometers.

Also, what's Law's fastest utilisation of his Room, could you give me a scan of that? Kuuga just needs to raise his hand to spawn and convert the atoms in Law's body into plasma. If he's fast enough to do his room thing first, then yea Kuuga's kinda in his mercy, although that depends on what he does in character first. for Ultimate Kuuga in this key, it's always igniting his opponents.

Law can activate Room in the middle of heated close quarters combat, and he can activate a Room and use his techniques in a split second before the people in right front of him realize or can get their own attacks off. Law oftentimes lifts his fingers to activate Room, but he can activate it without doing so as he did it while being pinned down by strong gravity. He also has precog with Kenbunshoku Haki that allows him to know exactly what Kuuga has planned and see glimpses of the future. It even allows users to be aware of types of attacks they've never seen before, meaning that before Kuuga has the chance to attack, Law would likely teleport out of his range or slice him to pieces instantly to incapacitate him.

 

[Nonynho]

Actually, quick question. Is K-Room part of his arsenal in this key of his? 100 meters is quite the range, and in theory Kuuga ultimately outranges him. In this context, only his K-Room can hit him with that big of a range.

Can't recall him using it so let's go with no; ig the profile could use some updates, but he can make pretty big Rooms and if Kuuga makes the first move, Shambles and gg

Also, what's Law's fastest utilisation of his Room, could you give me a scan of that? Kuuga just needs to raise his hand to spawn and convert the atoms in Law's body into plasma. If he's fast enough to do his room thing first, then yea Kuuga's kinda in his mercy, although that depends on what he does in character first. for Ultimate Kuuga in this key, it's always igniting his opponents

As Kachon is the scan person, they'll be providing ya with those, but Law's been making Rooms while in the middle of CQC, for starters

 

[Nonynho]

.

Oh, sick scan work, tysm

friendly note: for Imgur not to delete ur stuff all the sudden, i recommend using imgbb

 

[Shadowslash125]

Quick response for now.

Law would likely teleport out of his range

Planetary Range kinda kills this option ngl.

Law's been making Rooms while in the middle of CQC, for starters

The problem now is that Kuuga in this form always leads to the plasma ignition move, CQC or otherwise.

 

[Nonynho]

The problem now is that Kuuga in this form always leads to the plasma ignition move, CQC or otherwise.

See Kachon's response, he's 100% teleporting outta the attack and cutting him off or incapping him in some other way

 

[Shadowslash125]

Still checking Kachon's scans btw.

See Kachon's response, he's 100% teleporting outta the attack and cutting him off or incapping him in some other way

Planetary Range kinda kills this option ngl.

Second problem is that the attack spawns on the target (it is igniting the atoms on their body after all). It's not a conventional attack to teleport away from in the first place, it's just that the big ass range kinda makes this way worse than usual.

 

[Nonynho]

Second problem is that the attack spawns on the target (it is igniting the atoms on their body after all). It's not a conventional attack to teleport away from in the first place, it's just that the big ass range kinda makes this way worse than usual.

If he were to ignite the atoms inside the body of the person, this ability should have Duraneg
As it doesn't and it's described as "turning the surrounding materials into plasma[...]" it's safe to say that the ability is supposed to make the target implode in flames by burning the now-plasma materials in the air beside said target, rather than exploding it, and it's completely avoidable by teleporting, because while what was surrounding Law is now burning, he changed his position, so Kuuga would have to reaplicate the ability to the current surroundings of Law
And, for reinforcements' sake, we're safely assuming that Law'll dodge due to Kenbunshoku Haki

 

[Shadowslash125]

Don't mind me, I suck at reading manga scans, will take a bit more time.

If he were to ignite the atoms inside the body of the person, this ability should have Duraneg
As it doesn't and it's described as "turning the surrounding materials into plasma[...]" it's safe to say that the ability is supposed to make the target implode in flames by burning the now-plasma materials in the air beside said target, rather than exploding it, and it's completely avoidable by teleporting, because while what was surrounding Law is now burning, he changed his position, so Kuuga would have to reaplicate the ability to the current surroundings of Law

It's weird that it isn't considered dura neg yea. Although, fire hax that has quite a lot of degree celsius doesn't really factor dura either, but I could be wrong.
Although, it still is converting the atoms of the target into superheated plasma because both Kuuga and Daguva regenerated ther molecules that were converted and ignited.

And, for reinforcements' sake, we're safely assuming that Law'll dodge due to Kenbunshoku Haki

Any other attacks, yea.

 

[Nonynho]

Don't mind me, I suck at reading manga scans, will take a bit more time.


It's weird that it isn't considered dura neg yea. Although, fire hax that has quite a lot of degree celsius doesn't really factor dura either, but I could be wrong.
Although, it still is converting the atoms of the target into superheated plasma because both Kuuga and Daguva regenerated ther molecules that were converted and ignited.


Any other attacks, yea.

No prob;

From the scan you sent, it doesn't seem to be burning the molecules from the inside out, and together with what the profile states

(By manipulating the atoms and molecules of matter, he turns the surrounding materials into plasma and ignites the matter, setting the target instantly with super-heated flames[...]

"It is possible to set the target on fire in an instant" is also in one of the scans, and setting someone on fire =/= burning them from the inside

Yes it is pretty dodgeable with teleporting

 

[ZeedKZ]

I'm not voting here, but I'll just point out that the S.I.A. is omnidirectional, that is the only reason Ultimate Kuuga and Daguva have that 6-C rating, they can both apply anywhere and anyhow they want. It's not a linear blast attack or something.

 

[Shadowslash125]

From the scan you sent, it doesn't seem to be burning the molecules from the inside out, and together with what the profile states
Yes it is pretty dodgeable with teleporting

I think if this was the case of just turning the surrounding into plasma, I don't think this ability would be as feared as it should be.
Also keep in mind, surrounding material also means the material of the body, not just the air or whatever else it is around the target. Humans are also matter, so it still counts as turning their atoms and molecules into plasma. It's not really easy to ignite someone into flames just by igniting the surrounding, at least to the extent of killing 30000 people at once (this is a feat by someone who he shares the ability with).

TLDR: Flames don't just instantly spawn on people Kuuga would set alight with S.I.A if he's just turning the surroundings into flames to proxy ignite said person.

 

[EvoltOz]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[Shadowslash125]

Law can activate Room in the middle of heated close quarters combat, and he can activate a Room and use his techniques in a split second before the people in right front of him realize or can get their own attacks off. Law oftentimes lifts his fingers to activate Room, but he can activate it without doing so as he did it while being pinned down by strong gravity. He also has precog with Kenbunshoku Haki that allows him to know exactly what Kuuga has planned and see glimpses of the future. It even allows users to be aware of types of attacks they've never seen before, meaning that before Kuuga has the chance to attack, Law would likely teleport out of his range or slice him to pieces instantly to incapacitate him.

The scans are fine, though I've got to ask.

can activate a Room and use his techniques

Was a room made after the injection shot, or when he did that attack? Scan doesn't make it too clear.
https://imgur.com/a/l0U9pIf

realize or can get their own attacks off.

I don't get the context of this scan.

Law oftentimes lifts his fingers to activate Room but he can activate it without doing so as he did it while being pinned down by strong gravity.

I believe he might be using the first way more often than not due to not initially being under pressure like in the second one.

He also has precog with Kenbunshoku Haki that allows him to know exactly what Kuuga has planned and see glimpses of the future. It even allows users to be aware of types of attacks they've never seen before, meaning that before Kuuga has the chance to attack, Law would likely teleport out of his range or slice him to pieces instantly to incapacitate him.

Ok so, this is where another problem rears his head. Law has to do a total of two actions to deal with Kuuga, at which he's going to be ignited while he has either finished setting up Room or when he's doing his next action. Regardless of whether he's successfully able to do this second action, he will be burnt and cooked.

 

[Nonynho]

I'm not voting here, but I'll just point out that the S.I.A. is omnidirectional, that is the only reason Ultimate Kuuga and Daguva have that 6-C rating, they can both apply anywhere and anyhow they want. It's not a linear blast attack or something.

So they burn on the entire range (for example, instead of trying to burn Law's surrounding molecules he'll burn all molecules in 100m if he's attacking Law who's 100m distant)?
Then it's even more dodgeable

Just gonna leave this here

They do not burn the molecules from the inside of someone's body, that's 100% proving that Law can (and will) dodge getting ignited by this ability
Also, this is literally what i imagined that the attack did, 10000000%, i don't think there is more space for arguing that what i described that would happen is imprecise, and what i understood @ZeedKZ said above is not actually true, as he can focus the attack, not something always omnidirectional

I think if this was the case of just turning the surrounding into plasma, I don't think this ability would be as feared as it should be.

that is literally what's written, and because someone as crazy good as Law can avoid it, doesn't mean it's a weak ability or anything alike by no means

Also keep in mind, surrounding material also means the material of the body, not just the air or whatever else it is around the target.

For you to turn the target into plasma, it'd need Transmutation and Durability Negation, also
Yet again: from what the profile and your sources describe, it turns the air surrounding the target into plasma and ignites it, by extension igniting said target.

Was a room made after the injection shot, or when he did that attack?

Second option. All his attacks operate (pun intended) inside of the Room

I don't get the context of this scan.

he can activate a Room and use his techniques in a split second before the people in right front of him realize or can get their own attacks off

Fujitora (blind guy by the right in the second page of first scan) and Doflamingo (blond guy by the left, same page) were surprised despite having CRAZY good Kenbunshoku. The other, more supporting feat/scan, shows other person who was talking directly to him also seeing him just being gone, while he has to activate Room and then TP

I believe he might be using the first way more often than not due to not initially being under pressure like in the second one.

As he's basically always in dangerous situations and we don't always see him needing the hand gesture, we can safely assume that he will perform both equally
Also, even if needed to lift the fingers, Kuuga and the other mf in the @EvoltOz video had to lift their arms completely, so it's not like he has a great advantage also lmao

Ok so, this is where another problem rears his head. Law has to do a total of two actions to deal with Kuuga, at which he's going to be ignited while he has either finished setting up Room or when he's doing his next action. Regardless of whether he's successfully able to do this second action, he will be burnt and cooked.

We discussed at length at this point that the ignition is dodgeable because of the nature of the attack, unless you gather more evidence that states what you say about being from the inside out or turning the person itself into plasma and CRT them to the profile, please avoid repeating this to avoid me having to repeat the same things

 

[ZeedKZ]

So they burn on the entire range (for example, instead of trying to burn Law's surrounding molecules he'll burn all molecules in 100m if he's attacking Law who's 100m distant)?
Then it's even more dodgeable

Absolutely, it is even more dodgeable when Law doesn't have to get out of a linear range to not get it, but just outside of Kuuga's maximum range that would ben... the entire planet's surface...

They do not burn the molecules from the inside of someone's body, that's 100% proving that Law can (and will) dodge getting ignited by this ability
Also, this is literally what i imagined that the attack did, 10000000%, i don't think there is more space for arguing that what i described that would happen is imprecise, and what i understood @ZeedKZ said above is not actually true, as he can focus the attack, not something always omnidirectional

??????? That's literally disproving Kuuga's 6-C rating. The attack is always imposed on EVERY surrounding matter that is within Kuuga's range. Have you even bothered to read the profiles?

He possesses supernatural powers and has the "supernatural ignition ability" to manipulate the atoms and molecules of surrounding materials and turn them into plasma.

The ability to manipulate the atoms and molecules of surrounding matter, plasma-izing substances to ignite targets. It can instantly engulf a target in flames.

Like the Ultimate form, N Daguva Zeba has the power to bring about the ultimate darkness, and has the ability to manipulate the atoms and molecules around him, turning them into plasma and igniting them. Daguva attacks cities all over Japan one after another, setting people on fire and turning the cities into a hellscape.

By manipulating the atoms and molecules of surrounding matter, it can instantly turn the target into plasma, causing it to ignite and burst into flames. While it is extremely powerful against ordinary Gurongi monsters, it could not inflict damage against the strongest Gurongi monster, N Daguva Zeba, which has the ability to match the strongest Gurongi monsters.

Kuuga's ultimate form is described in an inscription as "Warrior of Darkness", which is said to invoke the "ultimate darkness" and end everything. However, Yusuke's transformation is based on a kind heart, so he is able to maintain his rationality. He has the supernatural ability to ignite and ignite the atoms and molecules of matter around him, and he can also attack with lightning from his fingertips.

 

[Nonynho]

Absolutely, it is even more dodgeable when Law doesn't have to get out of a linear range to not get it, but just outside of Kuuga's maximum range that would ben... the entire planet's surface...

For that to be true, you'd need to prove that he's using the material from the entire surface of the earth instead of the one surrounding Law, which is definetely not true.

??????? That's literally disproving Kuuga's 6-C rating. The attack is always imposed on EVERY surrounding matter that is within Kuuga's range. Have you even bothered to read the profiles?

No, it does not refer to everything in the entire planet, because turning all material in the planet into plasma to burn the target means either leaving no material in the planet to burn one guy (and as the earth was still pretty much fine after they used the ability to burn one another, that is not the case) or burning the entire planet's surface, which is definetely not happening and not what a guy who's described as a police collaborator would do. By having planetary range, it means he could do it, not that every single time he uses the attack it's a planet-scale event

All sources indicate that he uses the material in the air surrounding the target and burns it.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Quick Response.

For you to turn the target into plasma, it'd need Transmutation and Durability Negation, also
Yet again: from what the profile and your sources describe, it turns the air surrounding the target into plasma and ignites it, by extension igniting said target.

Durability Negation

The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of their durability. In particular, it enables causing serious damage to an opponent, even with the user's lack of comparable or greater attack potency. A good example of ignoring durability would be poison, as it can kill a person...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'll vote for Kuuga if it's the internal body that combusts into plasma.

 

[Shadowslash125]

I'll vote for Kuuga if it's the internal body that combusts into plasma.

Say no more...

I got it adequately translated this time.

 

[ZeedKZ]

For that to be true, you'd need to prove that he's using the material from the entire surface of the earth instead of the one surrounding Law, which is definetely not true.

Kuuga's ability is essentially manipulating plasma ions across Earth's atmosphere to cause the ignition, and guess what the liquid part of our blood is? His ability extends across all over Earth's atmosphere regardless, Law ain't dodging nothing here because he wouldn't even physically see the attack spawning inside of him, nor he has the range to escape the range even if we lowball Kuuga's range to what Daguva affected.

which is definetely not happening and not what a guy who's described as a police collaborator would do.

You won't believe this.

 

[Nonynho]

Quick Response.

Durability Negation

The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of their durability. In particular, it enables causing serious damage to an opponent, even with the user's lack of comparable or greater attack potency. A good example of ignoring durability would be poison, as it can kill a person...

vsbattles.fandom.com

See that this is under the Durability Negation page
not on the Matter manipulation page

also note that

Characters might negate durability in many ways, including, but not limited to, the following:

those are examples
those are not inherit, if they were, this would be in the ability page

 

[Nonynho]

Say no more...

I got it adequately translated this time.

is this translation accepted by a TH? is it in the profile? Also, why is Kuuga doing it also, just because this guy can?

Kuuga's ability is essentially manipulating plasma ions across Earth's atmosphere to cause the ignition

using what's present in the atmosphere =/= doing stuff in a global-scale
Oxygen is present in the atmosphere, i'm not 6-C because i breathe

and guess what the liquid part of our blood is?

Plasma (physics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-basic-difference-between-plasma-in-blood-and-plasma-that-is-the-fourth-state-of-matter

Plasma cell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

not what you think they are, that's for sure lol

His ability extends across all over Earth's atmosphere regardless

having the range =/= his attack extends across all the range always
this would mean that he's always burning the entire surface of earth

Law ain't dodging nothing here because he wouldn't even physically see the attack spawning inside of him

Haki

vsbattles.fandom.com

nor he has the range to escape the range even if we lowball Kuuga's range to what Daguva affected.

yet again, he has the range to do so, creating large Rooms in an instant and appearing behind Kuuga to incap him.
repeating myself is quite tiring, ngl

You won't believe this.

what i said was an example, but wow, he's a psycho
anyway, literally not at all changing what i said

 

[Shadowslash125]

Another quick answer.

is this translation accepted by a TH? is it in the profile? Also, why is Kuuga doing it also, just because this guy can?

We have a translation declaration where all of our translations come from either the Kamen Rider wiki or this guy (for things the wiki does not cover). So our translation stuff are credible (except just now when I submittied the wrong translation and had to delete it but yea).

As for the rest of the arguments...

 

[ZeedKZ]

using what's present in the atmosphere =/= doing stuff in a global-scale
Oxygen is present in the atmosphere, i'm not 6-C because i breathe

??????? Wtf are you on bro?
My point here is that Kuuga's ability operates across Earth's atmosphere, the ignition happens because he manipulates plasma across Earth's atmosphere. He can spread the ignition across the whole globe (the 'possibly 5-B' rating supports that). Your last comparison is not only futile but nonsensical.

Plasma (physics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-basic-difference-between-plasma-in-blood-and-plasma-that-is-the-fourth-state-of-matter

Plasma cell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

not what you think they are, that's for sure lol

Posting wikipedia articles and Quora while pretending you're right aren't helping you here lad.

having the range =/= his attack extends across all the range always
this would mean that he's always burning the entire surface of earth

I'll pretend you're being ironic here, because I don't think it's possible someone can interpret in such way.
The keyword is can, by the way. He can extend the ability across the atmosphere if he wants to, hence why the planetary range.

Haki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Range: Several Meters with his blade, Kilometers with K-Room

yet again, he has the range to do so, creating large Rooms in an instant and appearing behind Kuuga to incap him.
repeating myself is quite tiring, ngl

Irrelevant to my point. You repeat yourself because you lack sense of what you're arguing about.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Posting wikipedia articles and Quora while pretending you're right aren't helping you here lad.

Wait, uhh plasma matter and blood plasma are actually different things.
BUT THEY ARE STILL MATTER SOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[ZeedKZ]

Yeah, I know they're different. But otherwise I don't see why the differentiation of matter and plasma would be around each statement.
Plus we see how Kuuga and Gurongi's matter manipulation operates differently upon organic and inorganic matter, the latter is entirely reshaped physically even in the earliest forms, while the former is straight up attacked from inside to outside.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

is this translation accepted by a TH? is it in the profile? Also, why is Kuuga doing it also, just because this guy can?

Use source editor, then ctrl+f.

• Fire Manipulation, Matter Manipulation (Atomic) and Plasma Manipulation (By manipulating the atoms and molecules of matter, he turns the surrounding materials into plasma and ignites the matter, setting the target instantly with super-heated flames.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/K...Rider_Kuuga_(Ultimate_Form)_Zukan_Profile]-53"><span>[</span>53<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/K.../phantoms/739_N-Daguva-Zeba_Zukan_Profile]-54"><span>[</span>54<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/K...n_Rider_Kuuga_Complete_Works:_Final_Volume-55"><span>[</span>55<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Kuuga#cite_note-Kamen_Rider_Official_Data_File-30"><span>[</span>30<span>]</span></a> Kuuga can also manipulate plasma from the atmosphere to cause ignition phenomena and emit plasma ions from his hands<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Kuuga#cite_note-Heisei_Kamen_Rider_Vol._1-56"><span>[</span>56<span>]</span></a>)

 

[Kachon123]

Law should be fully able to Haki flex his way out of that matter manipulation. The attack also isn't an instant-win and given Law would see it coming several moments before Kuuga actually preforms any action, he'd have ample time to swap their souls, making Kuuga burn to death instead.

 

[Kinggg121132]

Edit: due of complexity of Emilia have and her cons for being in here, she has been replaced by Trafalgar Law
Well still even better, what a way to start the tournament, and so everyone welcome to the first round of the island level champions tournament! Starting with a match between the man who inherited the ancient power of the mystical warrior against the doctor that also the infamous pirate who can do the operation in any place he want

Let's begin now

---

• Ultimate Form Kuuga and Punk Hazard Law are used
• To make it fairer, Kuuga wouldn't use the Dual Rising Titan Sword
• Speed are equalized
• Both are in-characters
• Starting Range: 100 Meters
• Win by anything (K.O and incapacitation)

---

THE VOTES

• The Surgeon of Ibuprofen overdose (36.47 Gigatons): 0
• FEAR, PAIN, AAAAAAAAA- (61.49 Gigatons): 0
• Inconclusive: 0

---

Law fra

 

[Thunderman101]

law for treasons below

 

[Kachon123]

4-1(?)