Steller level feats + Speed change + Void updates for Shadow Fight (Need admins)

[Richard5128pm]

I think the grounds for a potential 1-A argument are much stronger if you were to argue that Reality has a non-Dualistic layer which the Void is outside of

Can you explain why existing beyond a non-dualistic layer could strengthen the 1-A argument? I've checked the paraconsistent physiology and FAQ pages, and there's no mention of it there.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

That seems fine to me, although I'm neutral on the 5-C.

 

[Richard5128pm]

I think the grounds for a potential 1-A argument are much stronger if you were to argue that Reality has a non-Dualistic layer which the Void is outside of rather than drawing parallels to Buddhism.

hey @Udlmaster , what's your input on the latest arguments?

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Ah, Shadow Fight 2 is a peak game.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Richard5128pm]

bumping once more

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Not really a calc guy so I won't comment on the first two sections, but for the third:

Letter from Void's dream
This is to shine some light on my previous thread about The Void, which was rejected because members thought it lacked one of the key characteristics required for BE3, which is to have its state of nonexistence be the reason for its superiority.
Itu (Void's dream) discusses his origin in this letter. What's interesting about this letter is that something very similar to Nirvana is being mentioned as the Universe gets to know about itself (enlightenment), it goes as follows: the Universe goes through countless cycles of birth and death --> finally dreams of a vessel, uses the vessel to know herself/seek answers --> when she finds the answers (enlightenment) --> All meaning is rendered obsolete (all worldly concepts/dualities lose relevance i.e. Trancending them) --> Blissful nothingness reigns (dissolves/ascends to formless emptiness i.e. becomes one with the void).
Hoaxen (one of the 10 underworld gods) personifies the concept of illusions and incomprehensible principles of life; he is the master of illusions. He states life itself is an illusion, and he enjoys as people get stuck in their own illusions; this is a descriptive remark about reality and perception, which reinforces the nirvana argument.

This suggests the Void's nonexistent nature is, in fact, the reason for its superiority among other things, so BDE3 has to be suitable. Please refer to my previous crt for more info on the void. It is also said to be the source of everything, Incomprehensible and works with its own laws (Void's first announcement in Shadow Fight 3 - Teletype)

Non-duality statement (minor addition to tenebris' profile)
In the latest Void world chapter, Caligrapher states that Tenebris (the user of the Tenebris language, which is used to create planes/universes) does not view the world as dualistic at all; dualities like Fire/Ice, Life/Death, and Light/Darkness are the same phenomenon to him. This suggests that Tenebris is a higher-order being that is not bound to classical logic, in general. Reality was shaped using his language, which lacks the logical operator "not", which means reality has a non-dual layer where A and not-A are the same; he both predates it and exists beyond it (in the void). Therefore, Paraconsistent physiology (type 2) should be added to his profile.
Let's look at one more instance where non-duality was mentioned in this series. The plot is about the veil between worlds becoming thin during Halloween (a.k.a. Night of the Dead in some cultures), which allows spirits from the realm of the dead to enter the world of the living. After fighting, one of these spirits talks about "the past combining with the future, truth with falsehood, where the veil is thin". This suggests that adjacency to the void dissolves general duality and logic, and the void exists beyond that; Tenebris is the physical manifestation of the void.

I want to expand more on the "past combining with the future" part. It is said that void room (a supercomputer in the void) perceives the past, present, and the future all at once; it views the timeline from an external perspective. Meanwhile, inside reality, time is said to be malleable and flexible; changes in the past have real-time effects on the present (in chapter 7.1, the player travels back to the past thrice, each of these travels made immediate changes in the present that didn't exist before the time travel). This indicates the void's higher existence, compared to space-time.

Edit - A few more scans and arguments have been added this week

I agree with 1-A for the Void, though I think you could divide all the 1-A arguments into separate sections with bigger headings to make them point out more, like:

Void's Dream:
Arguments about Nirvana and how everything is an illusion

Non-duality:
Arguments on how the Void is Nondual

Eternal
Arguments on how the Void is the only eternal thing and not things in it

Eternally "Now"
Arguments on how something related to the void perceives all time (past, present and future) as something that happens at the same time.
IIRC this argument in particlar has a similar instance in one of our tier 0 pages of how a tier 0 perceives everything as an eternal "now". Though obviously in this case the Void isn't tier 0, but it can still be called out as a valid argument for qualitatively higher stuff.

(Also, I think you could give Void Aca2 for this, possibly Aca5 if you have more stuff related to causality)

 

[Richard5128pm]

Not really a calc guy so I won't comment on the first two sections, but for the third:

I agree with 1-A for the Void

Thanks for the input mate, appreciate it

I think you could divide all the 1-A arguments into separate sections with bigger headings to make them point out more, like:

Void's Dream:
Arguments about Nirvana and how everything is an illusion

Non-duality:
Arguments on how the Void is Nondual

Eternal
Arguments on how the Void is the only eternal thing and not things in it

Eternally "Now"
Arguments on how something related to the void perceives all time (past, present and future) as something that happens at the same time.
IIRC this argument in particlar has a similar instance in one of our tier 0 pages of how a tier 0 perceives everything as an eternal "now". Though obviously in this case the Void isn't tier 0, but it can still be called out as a valid argument for qualitatively higher stuff.

Yeah, I agree, the OP needs an update to make things clearer. About the God profile you mentioned, I might as well add it to the updated OP to make more sense of the argument

(Also, I think you could give Void Aca2 for this, possibly Aca5 if you have more stuff related to causality)

yeah there are some statements regarding acasualty in the Void, but they're not strong enough to grant type 5 yet

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm lost, what was this thread about again?

 

[Richard5128pm]

I'm lost, what was this thread about again?

Section 1 deals with High tier characters of the verse, focusing on stellar level scaling.
Section 2 is a speed rework, no new feats.
Section 3 deals with the Apex tier of this verse, arguing for Beyond dimensional existence (type 3) with new scans

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bumping once more

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Richard5128pm]

Bump

 

[Ultima_Reality]

What's interesting about this letter is that something very similar to Nirvana is being mentioned as the Universe gets to know about itself (enlightenment), it goes as follows: the Universe goes through countless cycles of birth and death --> finally dreams of a vessel, uses the vessel to know herself/seek answers --> when she finds the answers (enlightenment) --> All meaning is rendered obsolete (all worldly concepts/dualities lose relevance i.e. Trancending them) --> Blissful nothingness reigns (dissolves/ascends to formless emptiness i.e. becomes one with the void).

Hoaxen (one of the 10 underworld gods) personifies the concept of illusions and incomprehensible principles of life; he is the master of illusions. He states life itself is an illusion, and he enjoys as people get stuck in their own illusions; this is a descriptive remark about reality and perception, which reinforces the nirvana argument.

I don't think the association with Nirvana that (from the looks of it) is never made by the verse itself and which comes entirely from you is sufficient to give BDE-warranting context to these scans. This right there is just talking about how he will destroy the universe, and, I mean, if you read this as saying "All meaning will be transcended" and then took this fully seriously, that'd be Tier 0 straight up, not 1-A. Once the extreme high-end is dismissed, there's no content left in the statement to salvage into another tier proposal.

"Your life is an illusion" is interesting but has no context as to what it means. The R>F-type evidence that we usually look for with 1-A is basically "the lower realm is like something non-physical to the higher realm as a sign of its total inferiority." There is none of this here because it's an off-handed remark, and even if we combined this with the more interesting scans in here, it still wouldn't magically make that apt for 1-A.

I want to expand more on the "past combining with the future" part. It is said that void room (a supercomputer in the void) perceives the past, present, and the future all at once; it views the timeline from an external perspective. Meanwhile, inside reality, time is said to be malleable and flexible; changes in the past have real-time effects on the present (in chapter 7.1, the player travels back to the past thrice, each of these travels made immediate changes in the present that didn't exist before the time travel). This indicates the void's higher existence, compared to space-time.

This is backed up in one of the Q&A sessions with the developers; events happen sequentially to the player. June's plane, Itu's plane and Marcus's plane are 3 different timelines, but their events take place sequentially in the story (June --> Itu --> Marcus).

During June's plane, Stranger was still inferior to Shadow. (He was completely powerless)

After the events of June's plane are over, we move on to Itu's plane. By the midsection of Itu's plane, Stranger grows stronger than Shadow; he was finally capable of performing reality warps and changing the world to his will.

In Marcus's plane, the world has always been under his control, which is the complete opposite of June's plane.

This sequence is completely broken due to the nature of the void. All these events take place simultaneously

Is that a property of the Void or an ability of the supercomputer? The scan doesn't make that very clear. The Q&A thing seems to be just saying that the three events happened simultaneously because they are alternate timelines.

Eternal Void
Nothing in the Void is eternal other than the Void itself. It is said to be the source of everything, Incomprehensible and works with its own laws (Void's first announcement in Shadow Fight 3 - Teletype).
The above arguments draw some similarities between the Void and the God key of this profile. But obviously, the argued rating here is not boundless, but 1-A instead.

This suggests the Void's nonexistent nature is, in fact, the reason for its superiority among other things, so BDE3 has to be suitable.
Please refer to my previous crt for some more info on the void.

Yeah, this is interesting. It's a void thing that holds the the world as "a small part" of itself. It seems that the only thing suggesting the void to be non-composite is the Nirvana stuff and it being described as "an emptiness." The former was already addressed as not very worthwhile and the latter is a bit of a non-sequitur (What is it empty of?), so I don't see much evidence for anything beyond 2-A going by the past thread or Low 1-C being a bit more generous.

In the latest Void world chapter, Caligrapher states that Tenebris (the user of the Tenebris language, which is used to create planes/universes) does not view the world as dualistic at all; dualities like Fire/Ice, Life/Death, and Light/Dark are the same phenomenon to him. He is the one who forged the light and darkness (duality) of worlds. This suggests that Tenebris is a higher-order being that is not bound to classical logic, in general. Reality was shaped using his language, which lacks the logical operator "not", which means reality has a non-dual layer where A and not-A are the same; he both predates it and exists beyond it (in the void). Therefore, Paraconsistent physiology (type 2) should be added to his profile.

Let's look at one more instance where non-duality was mentioned in this series. The plot is about the veil between worlds becoming thin during Halloween (a.k.a. Night of the Dead in some cultures), which allows spirits from the realm of the dead to enter the world of the living. After fighting, one of these spirits talks about "the past combining with the future, truth with falsehood, where the veil is thin". This suggests that adjacency to the void dissolves general duality, and the void exists beyond that layer of reality; Tenebris is the physical manifestation of the void.

First thing is really irrelevant. Someone having no concept of "not" doesn't mean non-duality, even if this is expressed in a language that warps reality. There is just nothing of note to evaluate here, really. The second paragraph's scan is also pretty vague, because it doesn't elaborate at all on what "truth combines with falsehood" means.

So, yeah, I will have to reject 1-A for now, until better evidence is given.

 

[RigelBR7]

The void is a structure with infinite conceptual circles.

 

[VoidWalker777]

Dead ahh

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Small void, big dreams