Patch-Faced kid fights homelessness (REDUX!) | Juuzou Suzuya (Tokyo ghoul) vs. Toji Fushiguro (Jujutsu Kaisen) | [0-0-0]

[Arkenis]

Still doesn't use SSK against Gojo, using a regular knife instead. And I'm not talking about the moment he appeared, but the moment he finished off Gojo.

Yeah because he needs to bypass infinity. He used the knife cuz he hates Gojo and wants him to turn into a vengeful spirit lol.

Suzuya deliberately gives in to Kurone, literally quoting scenes from their first battle, and as soon as he gets bored, he uses Arata.

In the battle with Kaneki, he uses Arata, increasing the distance.

In the battle with Sova, he uses Arata as soon as he senses trouble, even though the other investigators were unaware of the attack.

Please stop. You should understand context matters. Again Kurone, he didn't just use Arata cuz he was bored. He had an entire fight with her alongside his squad, got injured and used Arata way after Kurone was in the middle of fighting his squad.

Against Kaneki, it makes sense since he knows Kaneki's powerful and it's a fight Furuta and them wanted to get done with quick.

So yeah no he doesn't just use Arata off bat. I'd say you're lying but you likely just forgot the fights.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

If Suzuya knows about SSK, he'll instantly use Arata, becoming so fast he becomes invisible.

Toji might genuenly be fine against the blitz amp tbh

But if you want to do this, give Toji knowledge of Arata and Juzo's power. Then he'll have a compelling reason to use SSK.

To avoid further contentions sure ig

 

[LaserPrecision]

By your logic, any shooter character should use an RPG instead of a pistol against an enemy, and Doomguy should use a BFG instead of a double-barreled shotgun, a shotgun, and a plasma rifle.

Whataboutism isn't an argument.

Toji doing this was clearly the most blatant PIS in the entire series. Gege didn't want Gojo to die there because he's obviously alive in the present, AND it doesn't make sense to use a regular kitchen knife to begin with because it's common knowledge killing a Sorcerer without Cursed Energy causes them to come back stronger as a Vengeful Spirit. Something Toji should know full well yet still did this. It doesn't make any logical sense except as a reason for Gojo to live.

No, friend, let's not exaggerate my thoughts, especially since we've already outlined Toji's strategies above. He uses the SSK against spirits because it's a convenient cursed weapon. He uses the TISOH against techniques, and the chain to increase range. Against humans, a katana, a pistol, and a knife are quite sufficient.

Why does he use SSK against Curses specifically if he has other Cursed Tools to kill them? This doesn't make any sense. Why would he use a weaker weapon against an opponent trying to kill him, who he's trying to kill, who gives him no reason to use Inverted Spear of Heaven (or Chain of a thousand miles)? Toji is a tactical genius and you're going to sit here and tell me he uses a gun (Which isn't going to do any damage to Juuzou due to being Tier 7), a regular ass knife, and a regular katana (That he only used to injure without killing) against an enemy who he knows poses an actual threat to him?

This has literally never been an issue until this thread. His opponent has a weapon at that too. Why would he NOT use the weapon that minimizes the risk of him being decapitated via cutting the opponent's weapon in half easily. You are telling me Toji is going to use a kitchen knife or small ass normal katana against the big ass super scythe?

He sees Suzuya in front of him, who doesn't possess cursed energy. He's basically a normal person. He'll just try using a pistol, lol. And then he'll resort to a katana, but a regular one. I don't rule out the possibility that he'll draw the SSK, but before that, he'll face the fact that his regular katana will be destroyed by a quinque.

Except SBA assumes both characters know the other is a risk SPECIFICALLY so people can't cheese a win through methods like this. Toji isn't going to think this is some normal ass human. He will perceive them as posing an actual risk to himself.

Yes, I know he's a genius fighter. But a genius fighter with a nuclear bomb wouldn't use it on a regular person he just met. Especially considering that it's his nature to rely on his speed and strength, he'd be quite confident that a regular katana would be enough to defeat a normal person.

Again, SBA lets him know this isn't a completely normal person. SBA isn't going to allow for a cheesey mickey mouse ass victory through the opponent thinking the enemy isn't a risk at all and just some normal ass person.

 

[NikHelton]

arguing in a battleboarding vs thread that Toji wouldnt use his most iconic piece of equipment in a fight is one of the most VSBW things ive ever seen

Calling the SSK Toji's most iconic weapon because it's so versatile for combat, ignoring the fact that Toji uses the TISOH in most scenes due to plot circumstances, is precisely the kind of fanbase that manifests itself.

He dealt Gojo his first wound with a regular katana, he killed Gojo with the TISOH and was about to do so a second time with it, he farmed aura for 15 minutes with the Playful Cloud, stealing the show, and even used it to commit suicide. But no, the iconic weapon is the one he used to kill spirits, because it ignores durability.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Mk changed the conditions a bit

Now it's mostly stealth vs blitz amp (should be more interesting)

 

[Arkenis]

If Suzuya knows about SSK, he'll instantly use Arata, becoming so fast he becomes invisible. But if you want to do this, give Toji knowledge of Arata and Juzo's power. Then he'll have a compelling reason to use SSK.

To avoid further contentions sure ig

NO. Omg can we stop giving handicaps in matches to make an obvious winner seem not clear? There's no further contention, he's just realizing the fight is kinda one sided when you stop acting like Toji isn't gonna use his best weapon.

And it's BS that Arata is somehow gonna blitz Toji when Kurone was able to dodge it just barely and you think Toji who has far more precise senses can't do this even better?

 

[LaserPrecision]

he farmed aura for 15 minutes with the Playful Cloud, stealing the show, and even used it to commit suicide.

He ONLY had Playful Cloud during Shibuya, and never used it once during the Flashback arc. Why would that be his iconic weapon.

 

[Arkenis]

Calling the SSK Toji's most iconic weapon because it's so versatile for combat, ignoring the fact that Toji uses the TISOH in most scenes due to plot circumstances, is precisely the kind of fanbase that manifests itself.

How are you capable of acknowledging the PLOT demands his use of different weapons but still believe Toji fights in a hyper specific way

 

[Arkenis]

Would it be possible to give just prior knowledge on SSK then equalize toji to juuzous base speed and make the two start 100 meters away? (so toji can use stealth)

Think this would be more entertaining than just settling on tojis wincon being "one shotted by soul hax; git gud scrub!"

Still means at some point they'll end up within 4-5 meters of each other and Toji will pick out the SSK to attack from range for a one shot. It literally is git gud scrub. And no he won't use the ISOH because there's no CT to negate.

 

[NikHelton]

Yeah because he needs to bypass infinity. He used the knife cuz he hates Gojo and wants him to turn into a vengeful spirit lol.

Do you have any scans where he says "Yeah, I won't do any spiritual damage to him because I want him to turn into a spirit?"

Please stop. You should understand context matters. Again Kurone, he didn't just use Arata cuz he was bored. He had an entire fight with her alongside his squad, got injured and used Arata way after Kurone was in the middle of fighting his squad.

Dude, reread Suzuya's first fight with Kurona and Nashiro, and the rematch.
Suzuya literally quotes scenes from their fight. He literally repeats the same words. Last time, he deliberately let them get close and let them gut him, so they'd let their guard down, humiliate them, and defeat them without any difficulty. This time, he also deliberately took the hit. After Kurona escaped, he even says that when you escape from the same opponent twice, that's the end.
Don't even think about Suzuya having any trouble with her. His squad easily pushed her back in battle, and when she spoke of his death, they laughed heartily, because they knew he would never lose to her.

So yeah no he doesn't just use Arata off bat. I'd say you're lying but you likely just forgot the fights.

At first, he fought without it because he had the support of the squad and other investigators. What I'm saying is that he used Arata as soon as he sensed danger. The ghouls heard the sound with their hearing. The investigators simply saw Owl freeze for a few seconds. Suzuya alone rushed to protect Ui. I don't know whether to call it a danger sense or a spider-sense, but we see Suzuya use it when the fight becomes dangerous.

 

[Arkenis]

Dude, reread Suzuya's first fight with Kurona and Nashiro, and the rematch.
Suzuya literally quotes scenes from their fight. He literally repeats the same words. Last time, he deliberately let them get close and let them gut him, so they'd let their guard down, humiliate them, and defeat them without any difficulty. This time, he also deliberately took the hit. After Kurona escaped, he even says that when you escape from the same opponent twice, that's the end.
Don't even think about Suzuya having any trouble with her. His squad easily pushed her back in battle, and when she spoke of his death, they laughed heartily, because they knew he would never lose to her.

Either you accept Suzuya lets opponents attack him to trick them later or you acknowledge this scenario is not what this match is, because it isn't. Suzuya doesn't have his entire squad with him, he's not fighting Kurone who he likes bullying and being a dick to.

At first, he fought without it because he had the support of the squad and other investigators. What I'm saying is that he used Arata as soon as he sensed danger. The ghouls heard the sound with their hearing. The investigators simply saw Owl freeze for a few seconds. Suzuya alone rushed to protect Ui. I don't know whether to call it a danger sense or a spider-sense, but we see Suzuya use it when the fight becomes dangerous.

How does he know Toji is dangerous?

 

[NikHelton]

NO. Omg can we stop giving handicaps in matches to make an obvious winner seem not clear? There's no further contention, he's just realizing the fight is kinda one sided when you stop acting like Toji isn't gonna use his best weapon.

Friend, I literally wrote above that this isn't a mandatory change and actively argued. I didn't "realize" anything, so let's not take my words lightly, especially when I suggested giving Toji some preliminary information so I'd have no doubts about using SSK.

And it's BS that Arata is somehow gonna blitz Toji when Kurone was able to dodge it just barely and you think Toji who has far more precise senses can't do this even better?

AD of one-eyed ghouls, as well as the fact that Suzuya decided not to kill her. A page earlier, he sliced her up on both sides and she couldn't see a thing.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Think I'll get some TG supps

 

[NikHelton]

He ONLY had Playful Cloud during Shibuya, and never used it once during the Flashback arc. Why would that be his iconic weapon.

Because he only has two major appearances. In one, he used TISOH most often, and in the second, he used only Playful Cloud, which blew up the internet with his fight scene.

I'm not saying TISOH and Playful Cloud are Toji's coolest weapons, but they are the most iconic.

 

[Arkenis]

Friend, I literally wrote above that this isn't a mandatory change and actively argued. I didn't "realize" anything, so let's not take my words lightly, especially when I suggested giving Toji some preliminary information so I'd have no doubts about using SSK.

Cop out to make giving Suzuya prior knowledge seem fair.

AD of one-eyed ghouls, as well as the fact that Suzuya decided not to kill her. A page earlier, he sliced her up on both sides and she couldn't see a thing.

Disagree it being AD since nothing implies it in the moment, but even if that's the case it's irrelevant, Arata's speed has nothing to say it's gonna blitz Toji's senses.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

This key he doesnt have Playful Cloud and Tisoh was only used against Gojo

 

[NikHelton]

How are you capable of acknowledging the PLOT demands his use of different weapons but still believe Toji fights in a hyper specific way

Because against a person without cursed energy, it's much more logical to use firearms and a regular katana than a katana with spiritual damage.

Especially when Toji sees an anorexic man in slippers and with an anime-style scythe standing before him, and he himself has no doubt about his superior physical strength.

 

[NikHelton]

This key he doesnt have Playful Cloud and Tisoh was only used against Gojo

This is a blatant lie, although I don't rule out the possibility that you simply forgot. TISOH was also used against Kuchisake and her domain.
But SSK was only used against spirits, so your argument is completely invalid.

 

[Arkenis]

Because against a person without cursed energy, it's much more logical to use firearms and a regular katana than a katana with spiritual damage.

Everyone has CE, its just negative emotions. And he used a gun on Geto who has ce and has cursed spirit manipulation.

Especially when Toji sees an anorexic man in slippers and with an anime-style scythe standing before him, and he himself has no doubt about his superior physical strength.

You're basing your argument off an exceptional scenario. Normally Toji just encounters cursed spirits and sorcerers. Realistically, his standard tactics are his fastest ones given he's an assassin meant to kill people. Every weapon he has is reasonably survivable by first grades where as the SSK is a sure one shot and time saver. So unless you explain why the assassin isn't going to go for his best one shot, I don't see how this doesn't end in Suzuya either losing a limb or cut down in one go.

 

[NikHelton]

Cop out to make giving Suzuya prior knowledge seem fair.

This might be true if I were offering to give Suzuya preliminary information, but I wrote above that it was pointless. Don't give me any unnecessary reasons, especially when I've literally expressed the opposite opinion. I think you see me as a rabid fan.

 

[Arkenis]

This might be true if I were offering to give Suzuya preliminary information, but I wrote above that it was pointless. Don't give me any unnecessary reasons, especially when I've literally expressed the opposite opinion. I think you see me as a rabid fan.

You provided your reason for why you think it should be given. Doesn't seem pointless but alright.

If Suzuya knows about SSK, he'll instantly use Arata, becoming so fast he becomes invisible.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Oh yeah

@LIFE_OF_KING I noticed you voted

Should I count ur vote or naw (since the circumstances changed a bit)

 

[NikHelton]

You provided your reason for why you think it should be given. Doesn't seem pointless but alright.

Yes, I explained to Del what the consequences would be with prior knowledge and immediately suggested that he inform Toji that his opponent is physically stronger and has a blitz amp

 

[Foriaa]

If Toji's analytical precog allows him to shut down blitz gaps, close this thread. I'm not sure what more there is to argue, Juuzou needs to engage from extended melee range to attack efficiently. If we're saying that he has knowledge of SSK, and granting him that he'll use Arata off rip like he did with Kaneki, nothing changes. This dude has infinitely better mobility than Juuzou as well being able to damn near fly.

Stomp or voting Toji

 

[Foriaa]

What funny is that you can give Juuzou knowledge on every ability Toji has and he'd still die to him

 

[Delusionaltx2]

If Toji's analytical precog allows him to shut down blitz gaps, close this thread. I'm not sure what more there is to argue,

Juuzous wincon with arata should be one shotting no?

Juuzou needs to engage from extended melee range to attack efficiently. If we're saying that he has knowledge of SSK, and granting him that he'll use Arata off rip like he did with Kaneki, nothing changes. This dude has infinitely better mobility than Juuzou as well being able to damn near fly.


Stomp or voting Toji

Counted

 

[Foriaa]

Juuzous wincon with arata should be one shotting no?

Can Toji cover blitz amps?

 

[Lynieryz]

[Juuzou FRA]

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

[Juuzou FRA]

Brotha, wdym FRA. A tokyo ghoul supporter just said that Toji might stomp

 

[M2u12]

If Juuzou has prior knowledge on the SSK, wouldn't he just activate Arata right from the start?

 

[M2u12]

this can go in 2 way.
Toji come up with strategy to kill Juuzou before he (or they ) activate Arata once he enters his attack range or Juuzou activate Arata before Toji can do anything and got blitz.

the latter is more likely ig, Since all Juuzou needs to do is taping the back of his neck.

 

[Foriaa]

Toji come up with strategy to kill Juuzou before he (or they ) activate Arata once he enters his attack range or Juuzou activate Arata before Toji can do anything and got blitz.

It's being argued that Toji can cover blitz amps from Arata, if so, this should just be closed. There's nothing to argue for Juuzou since he doesn't have a bag like Toji does, or the analytical prediction Toji has.

I'm actually interested in why @Delusionaltx2 will make this match knowing that Juuzou's wincon doesn't matter here. If you're going to say that Juuzou's wincon is with Arata, and then bring up how Toji can cover blitz amps, this is indeed a stomp.

 

[M2u12]

It's being argued that Toji can cover blitz amps from Arata, if so, this should just be closed. There's nothing to argue for Juuzou since he doesn't have a bag like Toji does, or the analytical prediction Toji has.

I'm actually interested in why @Delusionaltx2 will make this match knowing that Juuzou's wincon doesn't matter here. If you're going to say that Juuzou's wincon is with Arata, and then bring up how Toji can cover blitz amps, this is indeed a stomp.

Yeah, It's the kind of match where either way it's going to be bad, isn't it? Lol.

 

[Foriaa]

It is, I just want to know why he made this match with Juuzou specifically . How are you going to make a match saying that Toji can stop blitz amps, start the other dude in base, and then pretend like this shit can be anything other than a stomp

 

[Delusionaltx2]

It's being argued that Toji can cover blitz amps from Arata, if so, this should just be closed. There's nothing to argue for Juuzou since he doesn't have a bag like Toji does, or the analytical prediction Toji has.

I'm actually interested in why @Delusionaltx2 will make this match knowing that Juuzou's wincon doesn't matter here. If you're going to say that Juuzou's wincon is with Arata, and then bring up how Toji can cover blitz amps, this is indeed a stomp.

In my defense I picked this match up from another guy who made it, thought it was cool and decided to make it

Guess I'll get this closed then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

It is, I just want to know why he made this match with Juuzou specifically . How are you going to make a match saying that Toji can stop blitz amps, start the other dude in base, and then pretend like this shit can be anything other than a stomp

The main reason why I'm starting juuzou off in base is because of I started him off in arata and equalized speed then...tojis speed would just get equated to arata


I was kinda banking in the whole "arata is a bliz amp!" argument as juuzous answer to SSK