Nullflowerblush
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You did not read my post.
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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Hasty12345
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I did it just didn’t seem relevant to my comment if I was clear on what I was saying.
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Kienzan's Durability Negation?
Kienzan (気円斬), Krillin’s signature technique, is consistently depicted as an energy-based attack capable of instantly cutting through its target, being described as able to cut through “anything” and “everything”, independent of the user’s Battle Power. Unlike conventional energy attacks that...
RoninSlayer200
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Why is this thread still not finished.Kienzan's Durability Negation?
Kienzan (気円斬), Krillin’s signature technique, is consistently depicted as an energy-based attack capable of instantly cutting through its target, being described as able to cut through “anything” and “everything”, independent of the user’s Battle Power. Unlike conventional energy attacks that...vsbattles.com
Like come on, it's just a dura neg. It can't and shouldn't be that controversial.
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Who knows
StarShooter80
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Hi, I saw a guy who said Hell has infinite amount of dimensions(not spatial) since it has multiple blocks/layers where sinners are punished, like Frieza as he had his own Hell, and the first(the highest block near clouds) is covered by Enma Realm/clouds which should make it already infinite. So if Hell has infinite blocks each one infinite, then shoukd it be multi+?
Killerdrone123
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lol, I thought this was over alreadyKienzan's Durability Negation?
Kienzan (気円斬), Krillin’s signature technique, is consistently depicted as an energy-based attack capable of instantly cutting through its target, being described as able to cut through “anything” and “everything”, independent of the user’s Battle Power. Unlike conventional energy attacks that...
supertomioka
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Forgot to add this to
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Tbh Blue Gogeta should easily defeat Moro regardless of Spirit Fission just like Moro stomped Vegeta.
At worst, just land one spirit fission fist to take 73 out of him and even if they got defused at the same time they'd have an advantage
At worst, just land one spirit fission fist to take 73 out of him and even if they got defused at the same time they'd have an advantage
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I thought the whole reason they didn't just unfuse him was because he could counter it with his own Forced Spirit Fission he got from copying Vegeta?
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Multi-galaxy Buu saga
StarShooter80
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Where there is delusion there is hopeMulti-galaxy Buu saga
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If this is accepted, i want to see how angry it will make certain people because they faithfully believe that the Buu saga is only 4-B.
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Just need that manga image training scene where Goku fights Kid Buu and we'd be good to backscale it to Manga DBZMulti-galaxy Buu saga
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We are told Gogeta can't be Moro lmao.
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I don't remember that, tbh. But if that happened then Vegeta and Moro should get resistance to fissionism or something
Yeah, but it doesn't make sense. 73 Moro is strong because he has his full power, his weakened power and Vegeta's power.
His full power pre-73 fusion is weaker than UI sign, and so is his weakened power. Even if we asume he had the power of all Z fighters but Goku at that point, given base Gogeta is at least as strong as one of the fuses, Blue Gogeta should be enough to stomp him into oblivion
supertomioka
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You're just downplaying Moro Seven three. We're told that a Blue Fusion, maybe even a UI Sign fusion wouldn't be enough to not take Damage from Moro. UI Goku is.
Nullflowerblush
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How do you counter Forced Spirit Fission, an ability which removes energy gained from absorption, with Forced Spirit Fission, an ability which removes energy gained from absorption? No, the reason they could not undo Seven-Three being absorbed is because Moro immediately incapacitated Vegeta upon transforming.
We're told by Piccolo, who cannot sense the full powers of Blue or -Sign-, that either form of Fusion would be rendered useless by Forced Spirit Fission. Evidently, even a gap as wide as the gap between SSB Evolution Vegeta and full power Moro, who previously stomped and then absorbed the energy of -Sign- Goku—which is at least more than 10x, based off of the anime's portrayal of the Tournament of Power—isn't large enough for the stronger fighter to completely negate damage from his weaker opponent. We have literally no concept of how much weaker than your opponent you have to be for Forced Spirit Fission to be effectively useless; for all we know, Moro sneezing and spreading space germs in Ultra Instinct Gogito's direction could count as "damage" and activate Forced Spirit Fission.
On an unrelated note, does the Wiki currently factor Daima's lore into its understanding of the cosmology at all?
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Imagine how large the MUI multiplier is...
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Piccolo is still reliable and has been able to watch these fights. Goku doesn't disagree with Piccolo either. He would of at least mentioned the gap in power being too wide for it to matter anyways, but he didn't. Goku is shocked at that revelation because he didn't think of that at all, and had no follow up. So it really doesn't matter if Piccolo can't sense God Ki. We are narratively told that fusion is useless.
Even so, Vegeta would still have to be fast enough to get off shots on Moro, which he wasn't. However low the damage requirement may be, we can still draw conclusions based off the fight itself. If we are told that Gogeta can NOT fight Moro without getting tagged over and over again, we can assume Moro's speed would be on par or greater than a Blue Gogeta at the least, UI Sign at best. That means his strength would likely be up there as well. UI Goku doesn't have this issue at all. He can effortlessly dodge Moro's attacks as we've seen before. Moro simply had no chance, it was a one sided stomp. I'm not sure how you fail to come to the same conclusion as me when we're talking about Moro vs Gogeta, or UI Goku at that point being greater than Gogeta using whatever form.
Like I said, how much damage is required isn't really a factor here since we have other conclusions we can draw from. It literally doesn't matter.
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Didn’t he sense Gogeta’s “true inner strength” in the Broly movie novel?
As far as I know, yes.
Accelerated_Evolution
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Nullflowerblush
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I fail to arrive at the same conclusion as you because Goku surpassing any Fusion with anybody at the time, even at full potential, goes against the many times-over established mechanics of Fusion—i.e., being far greater than the sums of its parts; Post-RoSaT Gotenks being more powerful than SS3 Goku, DBZ Vegito being even more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, Kefla being more powerful than SSG Goku, Fusion Zamasu being more powerful than the SSBs and Rosé Black, DBS Gogeta being more powerful than SSB Goku and Wrathful Broly, etc. I fail to understand how Goku could ever possibly surpass a being who possesses the combined full potential of both himself and Vegeta further amplified by tens of times without somehow acquiring a completely new power outside of his original latent potential (like SSG during the events of Battle of Gods).
StarShooter80
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Yeah Daima is in the cosmology page
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Well clearly not because we have a UI Goku performing better than a hypothetical UI Sign Gogeta would have; Super Saiyan Blue at the very least. So I really don't care for the fusion glaze. There was clearly an exception to this which we see in the manga. Your argument is just, "B-but it's FUSION, do you hear me? A FUSION!!"
You said a whole bunch of nothing here. And yet you still fail to address the argument. You didn't touch a single point I made. You're only focusing on explaining the mechanics and feats of fusion which is irrelevant in the case I'm talking about. Address the argument.
Who says it's the full potential of Goku? He didn't even know how to access UI at will until Merus sacrificed himself. So why would a pre-mastered UI Goku matter when accounting for Base Gogeta scaling? If that's the case, why the hell didn't Goku tell Piccolo he's full of shit and say that Gogeta is at no risk of getting hit or taking any sort of Damage? Or are you saying Moro seven three can somehow contend with a fighter that is billions of times stronger than UI Goku? If so, you're lying.
Nullflowerblush
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Whether or not Goku can take damage from Moro is completely irrelevant because only a Fusion would be affected by Forced Spirit Fission. Goku can take as much damage as he wants, but if a Fusion is damaged even once, Moro could theoretically instantly nullify said Fusion.
The fact he can transform into it says it is. He couldn't access Super Saiyan at will until after Krillin's death; doesn't mean the power didn't already exist to be awakened. Transformations don't come from out of nowhere, they come from one's latent potential.
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It's in the blog so probably
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IF they are adding manga elements from BoG onward
Un the black saga, it would be nice if they introduced normal super Saiyan black before Rose
It would also be nice if they incorporate Daima, it's a bit weird making a show like that and the just... letting it rot
Un the black saga, it would be nice if they introduced normal super Saiyan black before Rose
It would also be nice if they incorporate Daima, it's a bit weird making a show like that and the just... letting it rot
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Prove Moro could nullify fusion in a single hit lmao. And I don't care if Goku can take damage or not. The point is that Goku is so far ahead of Moro in UI, that he could technically never get hit if he doesn't block instead of dodge, which we literally see on panel. Moro stood zero chance. That is not the case for if a Gogeta would fight Moro instead. And you basically brushed over everything I said. If Gogeta is stronger than UI Goku in base, then why the hell is he at risk of defusing if he should be upwards to billions of time stronger than a being that has no right of being hit by Moro even once? Make it make sense. Why didn't Goku shut down Piccolo's claim? He knows the technique, he knows the requirements for max effectiveness. Yet he doesn't say anything. Why is that? Well I think it's obvious. He knows it's true.
Stop equating Ultra Instinct to some Super Saiyan form or something. This argument has the same vibes of, "Oh Gotenks can do Super Saiyan 3 but Goten and Trunks can't". For the reasons I stated above, why isn't it being said that Gogeta could just no diff Moro and kill him easily without getting hit? Why is UI Goku treated as more of a one sided stomp than any scenario Gogeta would have been in? Why doesn't Goku disagree with Piccolo? Can you prove Gogeta would be able to use Ultra Instinct before Goku mastered it? If not, then who's to say it's being counted as a inherent potential when it's the technique of the Angels that has to be used differently due to Goku being a completely separate life form trying to copy them?
Posting panels without saying anything isn't helpful and you know it. This isn't some sort of gotcha moment. We have a panel of 17 and 18 fighting Moro, and he's just tanking their attacks. And this is supposed to tell me what? Okay, let's look at the other panel. Piccolo says, "diving into battle recklessly would only feed Moro more power". Since you refuse to elaborate, I'll just tackle it myself. First off, why would Gogeta dive in recklessly when he knows Moro's ability? When has Gogeta ever done that? Hell, they have Goku and Vegeta's intelligence for battle. The point is that no matter what Gogeta does, if he fights Moro in a head on clash, he WILL get hit more times than he can handle and get nullified. That's the point. Plain and simple. No amount of cope or headcanon or vague interpretation that you refuse to elaborate on will change that. You can't even properly address my arguments because you know where it leads to. And this is something that happens quite often. There is a single question that always trips up everyone that thinks Moro can't box Vegeta, besides the literal statement that says he can. I always ask, "What does forced spirit fission do? And what are the requirements for it to work?" The question is always brushed over, and they ignore the mechanics of how fights in DB work, especially with a technique like spirit fission. It's clear to me you don't have an actual argument. You just hype up fusion to no end.
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I hate in-verse debating
Killerdrone123
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I Love in-verse debating
Fezzih_007
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I feel neutral about In-Verse debating.
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StarShooter80
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I love in-verse scaling (when we're focusing on a specific continuity)
StarShooter80
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Have we ever had a thread talking about the galactic nebula statement for DB's solar system? Ik we had some discussions here on it but nothing else outside of that
Accelerated_Evolution
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We've had some threads on this issue in the past, and the general conclusion is that this specific statement is a mistranslation
Also, a while ago, @LuffyRuffy46307 requested someone on the translation request thread to translate the statement for him, and he also understood it as talking about the solar system and a galactic nebula, but not mentioning them being the same
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