Shibai Otsutsuki Universal+ Removel

[ichimojii]

It makes logical sense. The only reason you’re struggling with this is bias, not a flaw in the argument.
We’ve already established multiple times that Shibai is not the only Ōtsutsuki to achieve godhood. Canon explicitly tells us others existed before him, and others will exist after. This is a clan whose entire purpose is ascension. So the question isn’t whether more gods exist it’s what happens when they reach that state.
Take Momoshiki, Isshiki, and Kinshiki. If and when they reach godhood, do their abilities suddenly become “name-locked” exceptions? Of course not. Godhood is a state, not a unique individual gimmick.
The idea that Ōtsutsuki gods manipulate or rewrite memory isn’t new, speculative, or fan theory. Momoshiki already brought this up on-panel. Omnipotence is explicitly described as reality warping, and not just any reality warping it is the highest attainable technique in the entire verse. Every other ability pales in comparison.

Omnipotence is just another role out of creation of all things. If anything "creation of all things "is better since it's creates from nothing. It's hyped for being reality warping when CoAT does the same thing. Momoshiki hyped Omnipotence for permanently changing memory when sasuke already did this with basic sharingan. A lot of these shinjutsu can be replicated by ninjustu

This power comes with godhood, and the being who wields it also becomes a higher-dimensional existence. We already have precedent: Kaguya demonstrates dimensional creation and manipulation well below this level. So why would it suddenly become “illogical” for the pinnacle of all abilities in the verse to include universe-level creation? Why is ability that is so powerful it requires you to be omnipotent and omniscience to wield not be able to create a universe??? what is the logical issue ?

Kaguya needs prep and doesn't scale to her creation feats. She has to link her IT victims to her root space planet and use that planet to gather large amounts of chakra fast. It's not a casual feat at all

 

[Tdjwo]

You've been gone for 4 pages i don't wanna hear a word out of you.
You've contributed nothing except heckling me and calling people bias.
You have done nothing on this thread except antagonize.
If I was to take you to the rvr right now I would be completely in the right.

I'm not here to contribute to the discussion. I'm following the debates but when I see something clearly wrong, I believe I have every rights to call out the bs. I'm not heckling you. I'm simply telling you to do the right thing as a godamn staff member lol. Take me to the rvr. Show them what I did wrong.

I didn't insult a single member on this forum in this entire thread. I actually went through every message I said in this thread to double check to make sure. The closest thing to an insult was the "have you read 10 books", and that was out of genuine concern and I elaborated on why I said it in a manner meant to educate because it seemed like all of his knowledge was just powerscaling, deliberately taking a calm respectful tone, and his first response was getting mad at me so I threadbanned him temporarily for a chunk of hours so that he would stop throwing insults and weird jabs with high horse arrogance in literally every message.

You literally told me to shut the fk up. Idk that sounds like an insult to me all because I told you to stop being biased. And overalll, you were just being extremely arrogant in several comments

No.

You can live in your current house and previously be homeless.

This is just an annoying leap of logic.

We do believe God predates time but trying to tie it to vsbw creation feats is a ball of stupidity

Say "those other dimensions, kamui, kaguya's, code's, etc." don't ***** and moan

Amongst several others. But ok.

 

[ichimojii]

If you look at the boruto official site in Japanese it does elude to shibai creating the world rather then some other god

 

[KingTempest]

If you look at the boriuto official site in Japanese it does elude to shibai creating the world rather then some other god

link?

 

[ichimojii]

link?

Here

 

[SlendVeny]

link?

『BORUTO』データベース！「全能」 | 【公式】NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE、NARUTO -ナルト-オフィシャルサイト、BORUTO -ボルト-

全能 分類:神術 術者:現在のところエイダのみ かつて「神」となった大筒木が、今ある世界を創る際に用いたとされる術。 あらゆ

naruto-official.com

There's a link on it leading to a Shibai page. Only in Japanese tho I guess.

 

[Foriaa]

I'm tired boss, just one cup of summaries please

There's so much to say I'm ngl, I'll just cover the first two pages for you to get a jist of the yap happening here

Spoiler: Page 1

The 1st page is mostly arguing whether the statements made to justify Uni+ are literal or not, opponents say that they are lore/rumors because wording like "said" is used, which doesn't always confirm truth, the supporters said that this criticism is flawed because it ignores narrative context. Supporters say that Momoshiki's positioned in the story as a knowledgeable source, so his statement should carry weight. Supporters bring up scans from the Boruto Database as more support. Opponents bring up how Ōtsutsuki/Shibai creating the universe is illogical seeing as they come from a planet in an already existing universe, so they couldn't have created the universe. Opponents also bring up logical leaps, like how assuming genesis = universal creation

Spoiler: Page 2

The second page is arguing against the critiques in the first page, supporter again brings up how momo is positioned as a knowledgeable character, uses them having explicit knowledge on all shinjutsu, existing on the plane for a long time and being a Ōtsutsuki as a supporter for it. This point is basically arguing that whoever said the claim matters more about how it's said. Opponents bring up how the lore depicts Ōtsutsuki as alien beings who evolve through consuming chakra fruit and planets, which presupposes their universe already exist. Basically, you can't have a statement about gods and creation to back universe creation if the narrative already requires an existing universe for ascensions. Opponents bring up how the term world doesn't need to mean universe in this case, and jumping to universe from it would require a lot more evidence. This page was mostly arguing that If Ōtsutsuki only evolved into gods in existing worlds, then by definition something existed before them — meaning they couldn’t have created the entire universe from nothing

 

[KingTempest]

Here

『BORUTO』データベース！「全能」 | 【公式】NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE、NARUTO -ナルト-オフィシャルサイト、BORUTO -ボルト-

全能 分類:神術 術者:現在のところエイダのみ かつて「神」となった大筒木が、今ある世界を創る際に用いたとされる術。 あらゆ

naruto-official.com

There's a link on it leading to a Shibai page. Only in Japanese tho I guess.

thank you.

shit, it even LINKS to Shibai.

yeah it's saying shibai himself did that

 

[Foriaa]

snip

also i'm prolly misconstruing peoples takes to an extent, but this is what i picked off from it

 

[SlendVeny]

thank you.

shit, it even LINKS to Shibai.

yeah it's saying shibai himself did that

Yeah, the official site has basically been the most important scaling resource because the manga is basically half Tier 8 shit at this point.

 

[Foriaa]

TLDR

Otsutsuki gods only exist when Otsutsuki evolve -> Otsutsuki evolve when they eat chakra fruits -> chakra fruits come from planets -> you can't have an otsutsuki god without planets -> an otsutsuki god couldn't have created everything in existence if he needed that existence to become a god -> an otsutsuki god didn't create everything in existence

This is the most convincing argument in this thread

 

[Trihexa102]

thank you.

shit, it even LINKS to Shibai.

yeah it's saying shibai himself did that

This is wrong though? multiple gods exist shibai isn't the first nor last.

It talks about a God in particular starting "genesis" of a world.

Other otsutsuki god's evolve and gain power Equivalent to that god via Omnipotence.

 

[KingTempest]

This is wrong though? multiple gods exist shibai isn't the first nor last.

It talks about a God in particular starting "genesis" of a world.

Other otsutsuki god's evolve and gain power Equivalent to that god via Omnipotence.

it just said "a god", but if shibai was that god it ties it full circle

we know there's multiple but it sounds like shibai is this one

 

[Trihexa102]

it just said "a god", but if shibai was that god it ties it full circle

we know there's multiple but it sounds like shibai is this one

It never once says shibai is that god though?
why wouldn't momoshiki just say it's shibai then? just name as shibai and be done with it
It's says a "GOD", it's left cryptic for a reason and right after that very statement, Momoshiki talks about the Existence of Multiple otsutsuki gods.
so clearly it's not talking about shibai.

 

[KingTempest]

It never once says shibai is that god though?
why wouldn't momoshiki just say it's shibai then?
It's says a "GOD", it's left cryptic for a reason and right after that very statement, Momoshiki talks about the Existence of Multiple otsutsuki gods.
so clearly it's not talking about shibai.

the website confirms that he's the one who does so

 

[Vietthai96]

After reading through the thread (actually the important thing), i agree with KingTempest. Tbh, i also have gripe with the upgrade thread since it is an extremely high interpretation of some specific term, though i was fine with. But this thread actually bring out many issue with that interpretation

 

[Trihexa102]

the website confirms that he's the one who does so

bruh i just check and translated the website it doesn't say that.
it just talks about a cryptic god like the manga and data columns do?
Again why did momoshiki not just say shibai the God created the current world? why talk cryptic like he is alluding to something completely different.

 

[Foriaa]

After reading through the thread (actually the important thing), i agree with KingTempest. Tbh, i also have gripe with the upgrade thread since it is an extremely high interpretation of some specific term, though i was fine with. But this thread actually bring out many issue with that interpretation

That makes it 3 now, KT, Damage and now you

 

[KingTempest]

bruh i just check and translated the website it doesn't say that.
it just talks about a cryptic god like the manga and data columns do?
Again why did momoshiki not just say shibai the God created the current world? why talk cryptic like he is alluding to something completely different.

『BORUTO』データベース！「全能」 | 【公式】NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE、NARUTO -ナルト-オフィシャルサイト、BORUTO -ボルト-

全能 分類:神術 術者:現在のところエイダのみ かつて「神」となった大筒木が、今ある世界を創る際に用いたとされる術。 あらゆ

naruto-official.com

it literally links the one who "became a god" to shibai. like it links it to his profile.

 

[Trihexa102]

『BORUTO』データベース！「全能」 | 【公式】NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE、NARUTO -ナルト-オフィシャルサイト、BORUTO -ボルト-

全能 分類:神術 術者:現在のところエイダのみ かつて「神」となった大筒木が、今ある世界を創る際に用いたとされる術。 あらゆ

naruto-official.com

it literally links the one who "became a god" to shibai. like it links it to his profile.

again translate it your self again, There are many Gods shibai is not the First Nor the Last.
so why would it be talking about shibai in particular when it could have just named him and ignore the cryptics of a god creating everything.

 

[Foriaa]

so why would it be talking about shibai in particular when it could have just named him.

The page hyperlinks the statement straight to Shibai

 

[SlendVeny]

again translate it your self again, There are many Gods shibai is not the First Nor the Last.
so why would it be talking about shibai in particular when it could have just named him and ignore the cryptics of a god creating everything.

It literally links to him

 

[Vietthai96]

That makes it 3 now, KT, Damage and now you

Damage?, where is he?, i didn't see bro bruhh

 

[Foriaa]

For the time being, I'm in agreement with KT and the OP.

He was lurking earlier

 

[Trihexa102]

The page hyperlinks the statement straight to Shibai

it doesn't translate it, the manga and what you are linking when translated still talks about a cryptic god.

「神」が世界を創る過程で用いたとされるTranslation: "It is said to have been used by 'God' in the process of creating the world."

何もかもを具現化する絶対の意思Translation: "The absolute will to materialize anything and everything."

 

[Foriaa]

it doesn't translate it, the manga and what you are linking when translated still talks about a cryptic god.

かつて「神」となった大筒木が is a hyperlink, if you click on it, it goes to Shibai's page, this is a reference to Shibai

 

[KingTempest]

The page hyperlinks the statement straight to Shibai

It literally links to him

it doesn't translate it, the manga and what you are linking when translated still talks about a cryptic god.


何もかもを具現化する絶対の意思Translation: "The absolute will to materialize anything and everything."

it literally links us to the god in question

 

[Foriaa]

Either way, there's no real point in having a back and forth, 3 mods accepted ts, while 1 declined

 

[Trihexa102]

かつて「神」となった大筒木が is a hyperlink, if you click on it, it goes to Shibai's page, this is a reference to Shibai

or it's refering to shibai status as a god? not him directly cause like i said he isn't the first or last god.

 

[Foriaa]

not him directly

enough brother

 

[Trihexa102]

it literally links us to the god in question

it's referring to his status as a GOD, not him literally from that though.
He reached a similar state to the cryptic god.
Think of it this way Shibai is used as an example to illustrate but it doesn't mean it's literally him.

 

[Trihexa102]

enough brother

you aren't understanding me? i am saying shibai is being used as a reference point of what a God is.

it's not him who created it, otherwise Momoshiki would just name drop him and end it.

 

[Foriaa]

i understand what you're saying, i'm saying let ts go, perhaps once shibai gets more info later down the line in boruto can a stronger crt be made for why he is that tier

 

[KingTempest]

it's referring to his status as a GOD, not him literally from that though.
He reached a similar state to the cryptic god.
Think of it this way Shibai is used as an example to illustrate but it doesn't mean it's literally him.

This is a technique that was said to have been used by the Otsutsuki, who once became a "god," when creating the world as we know it today. It is the ultimate power that can materialize any will.

It's literally saying "the otsutsuki who became a god did this".

 

[Trihexa102]

It's literally saying "the otsutsuki who became a god did this".

yea and am telling you after that Momoshiki talks about multiple gods? who manipulated humanity and more?

so clearly it's not shibai, he is just used as a reference for a god's status because he became something similar by evolution but it's NOT literally him.

 

[Vietthai96]

yea and am telling you after that Momoshiki talks about multiple gods? who manipulated humanity and more?

so clearly it's not shibai, he is just used as a reference for a god's status because he became something similar by evolution but it's NOT literally him.

Bro you need proof to prove KingTempest and what the site said isn't literal, not making assumption or theory

 

[Nierre]

Not at all interested in this thread nor this topic.

It does seem like everyone has calmed down now, so I will unban @Samlex1234 from the thread. Please everyone, be respectful to each other when arguing, there's no need to hurl insults and be disrespectful to one another.

 

[Trihexa102]

Bro you need proof to prove KingTempest and what the site said isn't literal, not making assumption or theory

it's not an assumption or theory craft it's literally stated in the manga lmao.

the sites merely links what a god is? if you can understand what am trying to say.

If there was multiple gods already revealed, shibai wouldn't be used as a link However because he is the only character revealed with a Similar status and known status.

it's like if it was talking about ninjutsu and it links to chidori to shows or give an illustration.

But based on that? nah it isn't talking about shibai creating the world, it is more along the line of some similar to Shibai status as a god did that.

 

[ichimojii]

Damn didn't notice tensions were this high here, can everyone chill out and @KingTempest please refrain from these sorts of threats, if individuals have done stuff wrong or ban worthy then RVR can handle making those decisions not the you as an individual

The rest of yall chill out too


I'm tired boss, just one cup of summaries please

One side is saying that omnipotence was used by some god before shibai to make the universe. Based on the momoshiki and the database saying "it's said omnipotence made the world as we know it today" they claimed the kanji meant the genesis of universe. However the site transalter debunked that proving all it says is it created the world which can be interpreted many different ways. Other people belive that a Otsutsuki God came from another dimension and made the universe which would prove the clan is older then the universe. They also claim since the they are called peerless gods and have abilities like omnipotence and omniscience they did make the universe. Since kaguya among other outiskski can make dimensions their for omnipotence can make a universe.


My arguments are that since they word "said" that makes the statement hersey or something that momoshiki heard rather then something he knows for 100% fact. Isshiki said the otsusuki have been eating planets for 1000s of years so how could they have created the universe which is probably billions of years. Their is also evidence in the sasuke novel where it says dinosaurs were wiped out 10s of thousands of years ago even before hagoromo was around. I'm also saying these statements about shibai creating the world are hyperboles since in other databooks and the manga it's stated the 10 tails,hagoromo and yin/yang forces created the universe. All these can't be true so their hyperbolic/flowery language. I also argued that the statement is to vague since to just says he created the world and the term world can mean many things other then universe. They argued since momoshiki said omnipotence can do anything and everything it can made the universe. I argued this was also exaggerated language since we know it doesn't work on the user or caster

 

[Vietthai96]

it's not an assumption or theory craft it's literally stated in the manga lmao.

the sites merely links what a god is? if you can understand what am trying to say.

If there was multiple gods already revealed, shibai wouldn't be used as a link However because he is the only character revealed with a Similar status and known status.

it's like if it was talking about ninjutsu and it links to chidori to shows or give an illustration.

But based on that? nah it isn't talking about shibai creating the world.

Then that mean there is contradiction with what the manga said and what the official site said