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Dante vs Kratos (Low 1-C edition)

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Robo432343 said:
But hope Kratos doesn't have high godly resurrection either. The argument that's saving Kratos is that Dante can't interact with souls in GoW because its made up of IM 2 but idk how valid that is.
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Yeah, I think we all thought Kratos had high godly levels of ress.
 
WTF does High-Godly regen have to do with this.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Hope is invulnerable to what? 9 layers of CM1? You got proof it can do higher? If not then it ain't stopping Dante as it would be a NLF to assume it is invulnerable of something higher much, much higher magnitude that targets the source of said invulnerability
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KLOL506 said:
Well then they were wrong. It never did.
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Planck69 said:
Kratos has never had immunity to layers nor has that factored into any of his matches...

He has Reactive Evolution to grow in layers. And Resistance Negation to bypass layers entirely.
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I don't see how that's wrong currently, as the page pretty clearly states that Invulnerability rendered someone immune to X damage and needed special manners to bypass it.
Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through. Others have more conditional invulnerability, such as one that just prevents harm from conventional weaponry, but can be easily circumvented by supernatural abilities. It can be considered the defensive equivalent of Durability Negation, negating simple Attack Potency, though one should be careful not to apply No Limits Fallacy.
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Given Kratos's Invulnerability was to Conceptual Manipulation, naturally one couldn't affect him by just being more potent as stated in the page. Or I may be misread, either way he doesn't have it anymore.

Regardless, Dante shouldn't be able interact with Kratos's mind/soul/concept as all of those aspects are simultaneously information, which Dante can't interact with.

And as for Dante's instincts not allowing him to be hit, Kratos can just manifest any of his powers on Dante by affecting an image of him that he can create, leaving Dante no chance to dodge it as it would just manifest on him.

However Dante does have the speed advantage, albeit I don't know what he has that can offensively harm Kratos.
 
My issue with this info 2 argument is that souls in GoW and DMC are not portrayed as some sort of uninteractable and untouchable thing. (Although DMC demons does kinda in the immortality physiology section) In fact its the opposite. There have been many instances where the soul can be interacted with and harmed without everyone having type 2 information hax. Not to mention that souls still have a concept aspect and Dante can target that concept aspect. I would have agreed if the soul in GoW had nonexistent physiology but that is not the case here. Are we supposed to assume that Dante's conceptual attacks won't harm Kratos' soul even though we have seen many times that it can be harmed in the game? Soul having an info aspect does not really change anything
 
Robo432343 said:
My issue with this info 2 argument is that souls in GoW and DMC are not portrayed as some sort of uninteractable and untouchable thing. In fact its the opposite. There have been many instances where the soul can be interacted with and harmed without everyone having type 2 information hax. Not to mention that souls still have a concept aspect and Dante can target that concept aspect. I would have agreed if the soul in GoW had nonexistent physiology but that is not the case here. Are we supposed to assume that Dante's conceptual attacks won't harm Kratos' soul even though we have seen many times that it can be harmed in game? Soul having an info aspect does not really change anything
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Everyone in God of War has info/concept specifically because they can harm souls. And no? There's no God of War character who don't use magic(which is what souls are made off) to harm souls.

And no, the soul doesn't have a "info aspect", the soul is entirely informational and conceptual. Dante can't attack the "concept" part and leave the "info" aspect as they are the same thing. Souls are simultaneously information and concepts. He'd need to deal with both.
 
That's the part i don't get because Fear Zeus literally killed Kratos by snapping his neck, he didn't have to interact with anything
 
Planck69 said:
I can't tell if this is ragebait or if Robo is legitimately making 2017 tier arguments to keep the thread going.
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man i was confused with how our info 2 metaphysical thing works but pepsi explained the concept and info of gow souls are not separate, they are simultaneous, i didn't realise that
even you agreed our metaphysical pages are poorly made
 
Robo432343 said:
man i was confused with how our info 2 metaphysical thing works but pepsi explained the concept and info of gow souls are not separate, they are simultaneous i forgot about that
even you agreed our metaphysical pages are poorly made
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Yeah I do, but there's that and there's "the verse where every relevant character has magic to interact with souls means souls aren't uninteractible".
Pepsimanslover said:
His transforming gives like speed amps/multipliers, so yeah Dante could just transform and be faster.
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Actually, he can't. Since Kratos is the faster character innately, Dante isn't allowed to win via speed amps.
 
Planck69 said:
Yeah I do, but there's that and there's "the verse where every relevant character has magic to interact with souls means souls aren't uninteractible".
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i think there's a misunderstanding because if Kratos was fighting character x who has no feats of interacting with CM 1 or Info 2 then obviously im going to say character x cannot interact with Kratos' soul at all. It's different here because Dante actually has CM 1, he just doesn't have info 2
 
Robo432343 said:
i think there's a misunderstanding because if Kratos was fighting character x who has no feats of interacting with CM 1 or Info 2 then obviously im going to say character x cannot interact with Kratos' soul at all. It's different here because Dante actually has CM 1, he just doesn't have info 2
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Yeah, but Kratos doesn't have a "information" part of his soul (I think part of the confusion comes from how souls in God of War are described). His soul is fully information.

I've been on the other end of this discussion too, but apparently the wiki seems to treat it this way.
 
Planck69 said:
Yeah, but Kratos doesn't have a "information" part of his soul (I think part of the confusion comes from how souls in God of War are described). His soul is fully information.

I've been on the other end of this discussion too, but apparently the wiki seems to treat it this way.
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Maybe in the magic page you can say 'souls qualify as both info and concept' or something like that to clear up the confusion
 
Pepsimanslover said:
And as for Dante's instincts not allowing him to be hit, Kratos can just manifest any of his powers on Dante by affecting an image of him that he can create, leaving Dante no chance to dodge it as it would just manifest on him.
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what do you even mean by this lol

Ignoring that Dante resists illusions and all that stuff (if you were talking about that), the whole void Mundus thing is Dante dodging omnipresent shit while laughing, "dancing", and having zero clue of what was going on. Spawning things on him is exactly the kind of things that Dante was evading in that fight.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
what do you even mean by this lol

Ignoring that Dante resists illusions and all that stuff (if you were talking about that), the whole void Mundus thing is Dante dodging omnipresent shit while laughing, "dancing", and having zero clue of what was going on. Spawning things on him is exactly the kind of things that Dante was evading in that fight.
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That's not what he's saying.

Gods can make an image of something via a magical mist and affect it that way. He doesn't actually have to directly touch Dante to do that.
 
Hawktaro said:
He lost hope long ago and the key is not even being used. Why are you guys still bringing that up?
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Now it won't even matter, Kratos has Info Manip Type 2, Sealing Negation, Resistance Negation and then some.
 
Honestly, though, anyone have issue with me closing this thread? Kratos went through a new revision every 2 pages of this thread and is almost entirely different from when this started.
 
Planck69 said:
Honestly, though, anyone have issue with me closing this thread? Kratos went through a new revision every 2 pages of this thread and is almost entirely different from when this started.
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Might be better to close it. Regardless of whether it's a stomp, it's just a mess. The fact no-one can agree which version of Kratos is being used doesn't help either.
 
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