Heroes of The Imperium Revision (Solar Macharius and Sly Marbo) CRT

[Tllmbrg]

Alright, I'm updating these two ancient pages (Christ both are from 2017).

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Tllmbrg/SandboxSolarMacharius

Removed the supernatural powers, since there is no actual evidence for him actively using faith stuff, and the mind control is just conflating his natural charisma.
Changed his stats, since Chainswords are duraneg and bolters AP is its own thing, so his physicals on that front do not actually scale to Dark Eldars (Plus we don't have pages for Dark Eldar troops, and there's a high chance they're not even Space Marine level like that)
Speed remains what it was because Fist of Demetrius treats the Dark Eldars as superhumanly fast, and while inferior he was compared to a Space Marine. There are lesser feats I can show if people want of him going too fast for the PoV character (A trained soldier) to properly track too.
Otherwise general quality updates like scans, references, new P&As, etc etc.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Tllmbrg/SandboxSlyRambo

Total stat overhaul, mainly because Sly's main weapons alongside stealth allow him to murder those high end people without being that level physically. Speed is more up for debate, so it gets a possibly since we don't know the full details of any of his fights, plus he can upscale Macharius.
I don't know where the superhuman senses came from, that one is just a baseless assumption.
Otherwise general quality updates like scans, references, new P&As, etc etc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

While the meme of Marbo's model is popular, I do think his picture should be one of the art pieces. It makes it more in-line with other profiles.

 

[Tllmbrg]

While the meme of Marbo's model is popular, I do think his picture should be one of the art pieces. It makes it more in-line with other profiles.

Any specific image you want?
Also any opinions on the rest of the CRT?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Spoiler: Macharius

add Madness Manipulation to his resistances, since it do drive people to madness. Same goes to corruption.

Otherwise fine

Spoiler: Sly Marbo

Orks are 8-C. They harm Astartes regularly. Go watch Totalbiscuit play Space Marine 1 if you need proof of this. Sly has 8-C weapons, his newest model LITERALLY HAS A DEAD ORK ON IT.

 

[Tllmbrg]

add Madness Manipulation to his resistances, since it do drive people to madness. Same goes to corruption.

I guess?

Orks are 8-C. They harm Astartes regularly. Go watch Totalbiscuit play Space Marine 1 if you need proof of this. Sly has 8-C weapons, his newest model LITERALLY HAS A DEAD ORK ON IT.

My main hang-up is his weapons have poison to murder people, so he really does not to full on harm any of the 8-Cs.
There are other sources that say he can fell Chaos Space Marines with those weapons, but at the same time those guys should resist the poison so that's dumb either way.

I'll see what others think.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Also the knife would scale back to his physicals since that has no duraneg, so I'd rather not scale it to that.
The gun is easier to justify, but it's also like off the same thought line as the knife outside one excerpt, so it's probably better to not have it as 8-C too.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also the knife would scale back to his physicals since that has no duraneg, so I'd rather not scale it to that.
The gun is easier to justify, but it's also like off the same thought line as the knife outside one excerpt, so it's probably better to not have it as 8-C too.

My main hang-up is his weapons have poison to murder people, so he really does not to full on harm any of the 8-Cs.
There are other sources that say he can fell Chaos Space Marines with those weapons, but at the same time those guys should resist the poison so that's dumb either way.

I'll see what others think.

Sly is a Catachan Jungle Fighter. They're literally the melee/flamethrower arm of the Guard. Their strongest beefcake being 8-C witn a ******' knife is fine... also, unless that poison is corrosive, it still needs to pierce armor and then skin to kill the enemy with said poison, espeically for CSMs.

I'm not saying "make every CJF 8-C", I'm saying their biggest statement farmer being even likely 8-C because of nobody knowing how true half that shit is is fine.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Sly is a Catachan Jungle Fighter. They're literally the melee/flamethrower arm of the Guard. Their strongest beefcake being 8-C witn a ******' knife is fine... also, unless that poison is corrosive, it still needs to pierce armor and then skin to kill the enemy with said poison, espeically for CSMs.

I'm not saying "make every CJF 8-C", I'm saying their biggest statement farmer being even likely 8-C because of nobody knowing how true half that shit is is fine.

I don't mind the weapons outside the knife being 8-C, but at the same time I don't think unarmored people are really treated as entirely injury-proof against smaller arms like that.
Also Catachan Jungle fighters don't actually do melee that often, heck Sly is statted like a sniper depending on the edition, the knife is just a bonus.
His main thing is being a stealth God, so I think it's more a hit and run while chipping/poisoning the enemies to death.

Also as I said I think the Chaos Space Marine is stupid even ignoring the matter of physicals.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't mind the weapons outside the knife being 8-C, but at the same time I don't think unarmored people are really treated as entirely injury-proof against smaller arms like that.

That is... the whole reason... Lasweapons are downscaling... from Astartes... This is scaling you put into place, Tllm. "Minorly harm" is sufficient for scaling here. Seriously.

Also Catachan Jungle fighters don't actually do melee that often, heck Sly is statted like a sniper depending on the edition, the knife is just a bonus.
His main thing is being a stealth God, so I think it's more a hit and run while chipping/poisoning the enemies to death.

Sneak attacks don't make an Ork drop from 8-C to 9-C. Nor does it change the durability of Power Armour.

Also as I said I think the Chaos Space Marine is stupid even ignoring the matter of physicals.

It's only stupid if he has an anti-feat.

He is a statement merchant. He's got no anti-feats because I never recall any story that stars him.

 

[Tllmbrg]

That is... the whole reason... Lasweapons are downscaling... from Astartes... This is scaling you put into place, Tllm. "Minorly harm" is sufficient for scaling here. Seriously.

It hurts their armor, we don't have ratings for someone slightly harming Space Marines outside of armor as far as I know.

Sneak attacks don't make an Ork drop from 8-C to 9-C. Nor does it change the durability of Power Armour.

I mean it doesn't need to drop the durability, it just needs to graze the Ork to poison them. It's not like paper is 10-B because it can give a guy a cut, that can totally be what's happening here.

It's only stupid if he has an anti-feat.

He is a statement merchant. He's got no anti-feats because I never recall any story that stars him.

I don't think it's stupid due to his physicals, I think a Chaos Space Marine should've resisted the poison. It can still be dumb even it's just statements.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It hurts their armor, we don't have ratings for someone slightly harming Space Marines outside of armor as far as I know.

Space Marines out of the armor aren't 8-C, they're like 9-B. Sometimes they have 8-C Durability though, hello Titus how are you doing, why do you not have a helmet on?

I mean it doesn't need to drop the durability, it just needs to graze the Ork to poison them. It's not like paper is 10-B because it can give a guy a cut, that can totally be what's happening here.

It's also a CJF knife. AKA, a Machete cosplaying as a knife, which means quick cuts aren't really gonna be doing much. Of course bringing up whataboutism of Iron Man harming Thanos and only drawing a drop of blood scaling him to Thanos-- what do you mean MCU scaling is dogshit?

I don't think it's stupid due to his physicals, I think a Chaos Space Marine should've resisted the poison. It can still be dumb even it's just statements.

Rando Eversor Assassins are given poison that instant kills Astartes. It's fine.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Space Marines out of the armor aren't 8-C, they're like 9-B. Sometimes they have 8-C Durability though, hello Titus how are you doing, why do you not have a helmet on?

I mean 9-C is enough to chip damage 9-Bs, it's not like we treat 9-B folks as bullet-proof on the site.
Heck I think technically off ancient calcs you only get bullet-proof at 8-B or something.

It's also a CJF knife. AKA, a Machete cosplaying as a knife, which means quick cuts aren't really gonna be doing much. Of course bringing up whataboutism of Iron Man harming Thanos and only drawing a drop of blood scaling him to Thanos-- what do you mean MCU scaling is dogshit?

I don't follow? Even regular knives from those guys are 20 centimeters long, it's basically a small sword (And Sly probably has Devil's Claw which is 3 to 4 feet long)

Rando Eversor Assassins are given poison that instant kills Astartes. It's fine.

That's not the same and you know it smh.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean 9-C is enough to chip damage 9-Bs, it's not like we treat 9-B folks as bullet-proof on the site.
Heck I think technically off ancient calcs you only get bullet-proof at 8-B or something.

I'm arguing for his knife and shit, not his gun, which isn't a lasweapon nor is it a Bolter, so it's not doin' shit to the 8-Cs other than chip if that. Plus, we're scaling to that Ork on his model he killed and has his knife in, and they're 8-C. Plus, being dead doesn't make your skull less durable and Orks tend to headbutt eachother and shit.

I don't follow? Even regular knives from those guys are 20 centimeters long, it's basically a small sword (And Sly probably has Devil's Claw which is 3 to 4 feet long)

I said "Machete cosplaying as a knife" for a reason.

That's not the same and you know it smh.

He's also from Catachan, the land of hellish toxins

 

[Tllmbrg]

I'm arguing for his knife and shit, not his gun, which isn't a lasweapon nor is it a Bolter, so it's not doin' shit to the 8-Cs other than chip if that. Plus, we're scaling to that Ork on his model he killed and has his knife in, and they're 8-C. Plus, being dead doesn't make your skull less durable and Orks tend to headbutt eachother and shit.

Maybe he took ages to cut it, which honestly considering he he often disappears for long stretches of time is not even that out there outside being really funny (Which fits the character).

He's also from Catachan, the land of hellish toxins

I'm pretty sure the only notable poison we actually know from there is the Toad, and they don't harvest it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Maybe he took ages to cut it, which honestly considering he he often disappears for long stretches of time is not even that out there outside being really funny (Which fits the character).

Which is why there's blood all over the blade as if he stabbed in...

I'm pretty sure the only notable poison we actually know from there is the Toad, and they don't harvest it.

Jungle Planet that made that lol

 

[Tllmbrg]

Anyways I guess I'll just wait to see the opinions of @Crabwhale and @Qawsedf234 on the scaling here.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

The reworks seem fine from what I can tell. In my opinion 8-C for the knife should work given Catachan Devil's Claws are apparently feared to a degree by Orks, enough for them to give it a specific name at least. [Codex: Catachans (3rd Edition) Page 17]. Even though Sly Marbo's knife isn't directly called a Devil's Claw, I mean, it's more than half his height and the Devil's Claw is said to be 3-4 ft long so it should work.

 

[Tllmbrg]

The reworks seem fine from what I can tell. In my opinion 8-C for the knife should work given Catachan Devil's Claws are apparently feared to a degree by Orks, enough for them to give it a specific name at least. [Codex: Catachans (3rd Edition) Page 17]. Even though Sly Marbo's knife isn't directly called a Devil's Claw, I mean, it's more than half his height and the Devil's Claw is said to be 3-4 ft long so it should work.

Do you think Sly's physicals end up as 8-C, or is the portion about having mercury giving it extra swinging power enough to make it so it's own thing?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Do you think Sly's physicals end up as 8-C, or is the portion about having mercury giving it extra swinging power enough to make it so it's own thing?

Considering it’s the knife that has the reputation and I don’t think all Catachan jungle fighters are 8-c I’d just keep it as the knife for now

 

[Tllmbrg]

Alright reworked the tiers.
Now I guess I'm waiting for another approval from like say @Qawsedf234 who also never got back on what image he wants to replace the current model picture.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Btw just noticed Marbo's gun is called a pistol, so I downgraded the range to Tens of Meters since that's the ballpark of pistols indexed on the site as far as I've seen.

 

[Qawsedf234]

like say @Qawsedf234 who also never got back on what image he wants to replace the current model picture.

Sorry. I was thinking of a zoomed in picture from the gallery where you see him overlooking a valley

 

[Tllmbrg]

Sorry. I was thinking of a zoomed in picture from the gallery where you see him overlooking a valley

Fair enough, I put it there instead.
So, is the rest the pages fine to go as well or?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I think they're all good

 

[Crabwhale]

There's a few small wording mistakes but those are easily fixed in the profiles themselves. I'll get to it, I think.

The only thing I disagree with here is Supernatural Willpower for either character. I don't like using tabletop traits and I especially don't like them when they're vague as hell as to how they'd actually work in our system.

 

[Tllmbrg]

There's a few small wording mistakes but those are easily fixed in the profiles themselves. I'll get to it, I think.

Say them here.

The only thing I disagree with here is Supernatural Willpower for either character. I don't like using tabletop traits and I especially don't like them when they're vague as hell as to how they'd actually work in our system.

I mean, the trait is pretty self-explanatory here I think, really it can be easily swapped into resistance to fear manipulation instead if you prefer.
But I don't see the problem with them when it's just "This character is not affected by fear at all/Can never be demoralized" especially when it's for someone who's essentially a super soldier.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Also (Since several hours passed), I want to add that Supernatural Willpower is a vague power on its own anyway.
It's just going "Someone has REALLY strong [Nebulous Mental Trait]" so I also don't think the vagueness on the traits end detracts from them (And even then, they explain what the things do in combat so).

 

[Crabwhale]

Yeah, nah. Even Space Marines who's whole mantra is KNOW NO FEAR flip-flop a lot about whether they feel fear at all. And those guys are biologically engineered and hypno-indoctrinated to have that excised from them. Macharius can probably keep the willpower bit on account of his resistance to the Chaos influence, as detailed later in his resistance. However to have that ability there as a result of traits from the tabletop is not at all agreeable, while simultaneously not being supported by the lore.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Alright I removed the Supernatural Willpower portion/Moved it around per your words, gonna apply the CRT.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Applied the CRT, thread can be closed.

 

[Crabwhale]

Done so.