Major MCU Speed Downgrade: Far From Bullet Speeds

[Dalesean027]

Btw, since cross-caling between MCU, FOX, etc. will be dismissed (if I read correctly), would that also affect other profiles like FOX Pyro scaling from FOX Human Torch's speed, Old Logan's claws scaling from FOX/MCU Deadpool, etc. (basically the whole D&W cross-scaling)?

Yeah that stuff gets gutted too as a result

 

[Chritin]

I like most others here initially found this proposal weird on the surface. I 'm not engrossed as much in the MCU as I once was, but none the less I still maintain my interest and vividly remember there being a significant number of higher tier speed feats. Thus, entirely removing ALL of them (or at least their application to many other characters) felt extremely weird to me.

However, the sheer number of anti-feats is what's convincing me here. Even though live action mediums often fall flat of displaying the magnitude of a character's in lore speed, never have I seen a verse with so many direct values below where characters are calculated. It's to the point where I whole heartedly agree that the intention with many of these characters is for them to not be in the MHS and beyond range. Like genuinely, you'd think they'd at least have some moments where characters are listed as being faster than subsonic, but they clearly don't for the MCU.

Overall then, I agree with the CRT and see it as a necessary change.

 

[Lonkitt]

Btw, since cross-caling between MCU, FOX, etc. will be dismissed (if I read correctly), would that also affect other profiles like FOX Pyro scaling from FOX Human Torch's speed, Old Logan's claws scaling from FOX/MCU Deadpool, etc. (basically the whole D&W cross-scaling)?

The intention would be that certain FOX X-Men/MCU guys don't scale to FOX Human Torch's speed anymore (something that I also introduced in another thread, again, my bad guys)

Logan's claw scaling's actually fine since it's scaling to Deadpool, that's not a problem at all

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Why the hell are MCU Writers so damn terrified of writing their characters as comic book characters.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Why the hell are MCU Writers so damn terrified of writing their characters as comic book characters.

Because they can't write

 

[Chritin]

Because they can't write

 

[Dinobot1996]

Even more evidence of bullets being fast enough to pose a threat: While Monica was barely able to intercept handgun fire, she wasn't able to stop the last bullet (despite being able to perceive it), which Billy had to stop himself.

 

[Dalesean027]

Even more evidence of bullets being fast enough to pose a threat: While Monica was barely able to intercept handgun fire, she wasn't able to stop the last bullet (despite being able to perceive it), which Billy had to stop himself.

Thats actually a solid subsonic perceptoon and reaction feat for both of them

 

[Dinobot1996]

There's also Okoye not being able to completely deflect automatic gunfire with her spear; some of the shots do appear to harmlessly hit her armor.

 

[KingTempest]

The thing is, they probably COULD. But the MCU is allergic to visually appealing speed portrayals. Compare to the deceased DCEU, how Snyder portrayed his characters moving like a blur, even MCU super strength feels fake.

The MCU makes a clear distinction when someone really fast is on screen through blitzing etc.

MCU could never

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Bro, apparently wasn’t fast enough to get that one extra bit

 

[Dinobot1996]

I think Infinity War's novel adaptation, Destiny Arrives, might've had a couple of millisecond statements, though I'm not sure how consistent they'd be with the new scaling.

 

[Jason_Courne]

subsonic perceptoon and reaction feat for both of them

Bruh, she was literally watching the bullet at normal speed, no way it's not Supersonic
In all seriousness, should probably get low Supersonic reactions (not uploading it into a blog unless the feat is considered useable)

 

[Dalesean027]

Bruh, she was literally watching the bullet at normal speed, no way it's not Supersonic
In all seriousness, should probably get low Supersonic reactions (not uploading it into a blog unless the feat is considered useable)

that's inflated, I'll do a calc of it myself but her movement shouldn't even be above like 0.2356194m, regardless she gets blitzed by the fake quicksilver so it could end up an outlier anyways

 

[Dinobot1996]

Found the millisecond statements from the novel. They are describing this scene and this scene respectively.

Make of them what you will.

 

[Dalesean027]

Found the millisecond statements from the novel. They are describing this scene and this scene respectively.

Make of them what you will.

singular millisecond perceptions is already high end supersonic+ let alone if we're using novels to say they are moving vast distances in these timeframes that would equate to them being Hypersonic~High Hypersonic which would certainly reach outlierish realms considering the actual in movie statements and on screen stated speeds they have which directly contradict that level of speed and the way characters interact with guns.

Bruh, she was literally watching the bullet at normal speed, no way it's not Supersonic
In all seriousness, should probably get low Supersonic reactions (not uploading it into a blog unless the feat is considered useable)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/MCU_Speed_Calc_Compilation_2

About 160m/s slower than what you got and still an outlier considering she is outright blitzed by a Quicksilver who would at most scale to the originals mach 1.8 speeds from the calc, also puts her well above his stated speed of 400m/s and those of being as fast as bullets himself

like i don't wanna be that guy but for every singular supersonic feat you can get there's probably 10 more subsonic feats or anti-feats or scenes where the cast is pressed by guns and I don't mind adding even more

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Wow, this is a well articulated gutting of MCU speed. I always found it goofy Winter soldier is MHS+ given how often he uses firearms.
Good CRT. And congrats to the MCU for being JJK’d.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Vision's beam has moved pretty fast onscreen, but probably too fast to be very useful for scaling at this point.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Why the hell are MCU Writers so damn terrified of writing their characters as comic book characters.

Comic writers aren't very consistent either. Not Marvel related but you get stuff like mach 7 being impressive for superman, and marvel comics has a plethora of stuff.

I agree with this tho.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Lonks has tease me of such existence. This is amazing work! Agree.

 

[Dalesean027]

Vision's beam has moved pretty fast onscreen, but probably too fast to be very useful for scaling at this point.

nah it being attack speed is fine and its not really an outlier when they are reacting to it from hundreds of meters away and its moving at like subsonic+~supersonic speeds from the looks of it catching up to Falcon, War machine and the like overtaking their cruise speeds, well the WandaVision one though is definitely way faster that it would be an outlier

Bruh, she was literally watching the bullet at normal speed, no way it's not Supersonic
In all seriousness, should probably get low Supersonic reactions (not uploading it into a blog unless the feat is considered useable)

also to further prove how outlierish this is I've done a calc of Billy Maximoff also reacting to the bullet and his feat got subsonic reaction speed so unless we're arguing Monica is several perception blitz levels above him while also being faster than Quicksilver who is faster than her and people she is comparable to when both her and Billy are presented as being equally capable of reacting to bullets from the same range then yeah this can be axed

 

[ByArrow]

also to further prove how outlierish this is I've done a calc of Billy Maximoff also reacting to the bullet

It was decided to use 60 degrees instead of 70 degrees in live-action TV show and films.

The calculation needs to be updated accordingly.

 

[Dalesean027]

It was decided to use 60 degrees instead of 70 degrees in live-action TV show and films.

The calculation needs to be updated accordingly.

it wasn't that thread was never concluded

 

[ByArrow]

it wasn't that thread was never concluded

The 60-degree angle was approved for live-action TV shows and films by a vote of 4 to 1, but all other suggestions were rejected. Agna said it could be applied, but later OP continued to insist on the other suggestions, and since no one cared enough, it wasn't applied.

 

[Dalesean027]

The 60-degree angle was approved for live-action TV shows and films by a vote of 4 to 1, but all other suggestions were rejected. Agna said it could be applied, but later OP continued to insist on the other suggestions, and since no one cared enough, it wasn't applied.

then I'd check back there to get official word to be sure because that thread is OLD and I'd like more up to date word on that then

 

[IDK3465]

The intention would be that certain FOX X-Men/MCU guys don't scale to FOX Human Torch's speed anymore (something that I also introduced in another thread, again, my bad guys)

Logan's claw scaling's actually fine since it's scaling to Deadpool, that's not a problem at all

So, like, how are we gonna format this? Are we gonna have different keys for the OG continuities and the MCU? Are we gonna fully split the profiles and selectively figure out what stays the same across the verses? Or do we just... not do anything and completely ignore any MCU appearences non-MCU characters have?

Agree with the thread btw, hit 'em with the ol tier 6 Mario and JJK special, just wanted some clarification here as I'm a bit lost.

 

[ByArrow]

then I'd check back there to get official word to be sure because that thread is OLD and I'd like more up to date word on that then

Quoting you.

Yes I'm aware, we've already spoken on the 60 degree value and affirmed it
Agnaa responded to this saying it's should be fine to apply with a 4 staff vote in agreeance already

We already agreed on it, I'm just wanting Ants word on whether we can apply it now since we were waiting on DT with no answer even though everything was already accepted

You should make the other stuff a new CRT yes, thats why I'm saying we should just go ahead and apply the already accepted stuff for now at least the horizontal FOV with 60 degrees is accepted so we should just get permission to apply that and the other stuff should be proposed the in the next crt

Again we've already accepted the usage of the horiztonal 60degree viewing angle with live action film and TV, looking at it though the table does seem fine but we don't really measure diagonally ever so that should be removed its just cause for clutter otherwise though the actual values themself have a credible source and you've described the usage fine enough for what's accepted.

 

[Dinobot1996]

There's a couple old Subsonic calculations that may or may not need to be updated, but aren't listed in the calculation list on the main MCU page.

 

[Dalesean027]

ByArrow I'm aware of my stance during the thread, my point is the thread was from 2024, was never applied, and once OP pushed further votes were turned around or at least one other was

 

[Dalesean027]

There's a couple old Subsonic calculations that may or may not need to be updated, but aren't listed in the calculation list on the main MCU page.

I'm gonna head to sleep but I'll check over these when im free tomorrow to make sure they are all good to go, they seems pretty simple tho so I'd imagine they're good to go

 

[Damage3245]

OP looks right to me.

 

[Lonkitt]

like i don't wanna be that guy but for every singular supersonic feat you can get there's probably 10 more subsonic feats or anti-feats or scenes where the cast is pressed by guns and I don't mind adding even more

No, what you're saying is totally fine. It's very applicable here too because Monica got blitzed by Ralph Bohner who's Subsonic at best

 

[Qurbonboev]

OP seems good.
Surprised at total lack of opposition. JJK sups fought with tooth and claws against imposition of Mach 3 cap, and tried repeatedly to repeal it.
But MCU sups seems to be totally fine with verse being downgraded from relativistic+ to subsonic

 

[IDK3465]

OP seems good.
Surprised at total lack of opposition. JJK sups fought with tooth and claws against imposition of Mach 3 cap, and tried repeatedly to repeal it.
But MCU sups seems to be totally fine with verse being downgraded from relativistic+ to subsonic

It's because the MCU f*cking sucks

 

[Arkenis]

OP seems good.
Surprised at total lack of opposition. JJK sups fought with tooth and claws against imposition of Mach 3 cap, and tried repeatedly to repeal it.
But MCU sups seems to be totally fine with verse being downgraded from relativistic+ to subsonic

Idt there's much reason to push back. The feats which scaled were mostly flight stuff or dodges and while I somewhat disagree with visuals dictating scaling, pretty hard to argue against half the cast using conventional weapons and speed being depicted as perception/movement slowing down. Could argue it'd be unimaginably boring if every scene was like the matrix but still just doesn't follow with the narrative idea for speedsters being speedsters.

Edit: JJK is also like asking someone if the sky is blue and instead of saying yes they wanna explain why its blue instead of saying it.

 

[Armorchompy]

A long list of anti-feats? How delectable. Scrumptious even. I agree.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Abomination catches missiles - 230 m/s (Subsonic+)

• The calc doesn't use proper measurements or px scaling whilst making several assumptions regarding character movement, timeframe, the speed of the projectile, etc. all while somehow completely skipping out on px scaling or getting any accurate measurements instead of just baseless assumptions

Is there a plan to recalc this or would the new version fall under the outlier criteria?

 

[Saqphire]

OP seems good.
Surprised at total lack of opposition. JJK sups fought with tooth and claws against imposition of Mach 3 cap, and tried repeatedly to repeal it.
But MCU sups seems to be totally fine with verse being downgraded from relativistic+ to subsonic

Using visuals and cinematic timing/pacing aren't the best arguments tbh, especially when Simon Kinberg (Quicksilver feats), Eric Pearson (Sentry feat) and the Russo Brothers (MCU overall) are completely different writers and as such, depict speed differently. But the anti-feats are just very blatant unfortunately. Atleast JJK only gotta deal with statements

 

[Lacku]

Joss Whedon: Quicksilver is very fast, as fast or almost as fast as a bullet.

Anyways, at first the idea of this CRT seemed really bizarre to me but those anti-feats speak for themselves. Agree FRA and rip MHS Raimi Spidey.

 

[Baken384]

at first the idea of this CRT seemed really bizarre

So was mhs sliding hawkeye