The Most Troublesome Buu: Buu scaling revision

[Omegabronic]

?... What? If he can beat him, he's stronger at this point you are arguing non-sense

no? You don't need to be stronger than someome to beat them? Have you ever seen a fight? Several factors play into it

in Dragon Ball even, Goku and Piccolo were much weaker than Raditz and they still won

If Goku was equal to Innocent Buu, or only slightly inferior(only an example btw) then he totally could have still won

and that is not innocent Buu, Goku fought Fat Buu.

Innocent Buu is the fat buu, yes... i am talking about the one that is friends with Mr.Satan

those are nicknames btw, all forms are simply called "Majin Buu" in universe

You can argue that, but it is wrong.

Not really? But... sure

That's a concession

Nah. It is just me not wanting to clogg up the thread

I did, saying "you didn't" really doesn't counter established lore and dialogues.

... you did the same you are accusing in this very same message

Regardless... you only proved, at best, that is nebulously "stronger" not "far" aka by a very large ammount or anything like that

And i did use the stablish lore and dialogues in my earlier messages... so i did provide proof

 

[Mbpoops]

no? You don't need to be stronger than someome to beat them? Have you ever seen a fight? Several factors play into it

in Dragon Ball even, Goku and Piccolo were much weaker than Raditz and they still won

Except the only reason they won was because piccolo powered up and launched an attack with a higher pl than radiz not ti mention gohan powered up and knocked radiz off guard so goku could hold him down.

If Goku was equal to Innocent Buu, or only slightly inferior(only an example btw) then he totally could have still won

Except if goku was even slightly weaker than buu he would have lost because unlike when he fought radiz he doesnt have help here. Goku narritevly is stronger here we see him toying around with buu for a good portion of the fight and not only that goku cant exhert too much energy or he will burn through the time he has left on earth and cant teach goten and trunks fusion. The entire reason goku even fights buu is to stall for trunks so implying goku is weaker than buu here doesnt make much sense imo

 

[Nierre]

I'm unsure where to place my vote ATM so put me as neutral

 

[Omegabronic]

Except the only reason they won was because piccolo powered up and launched an attack with a higher pl than radiz not ti mention gohan powered up and knocked radiz off guard so goku could hold him down.

Yeah... there is more to a fight than just how strong both opponents are, even irl that is how it works, that was the point

Except if goku was even slightly weaker than buu he would have lost because unlike when he fought radiz he doesnt have help here. Goku narritevly is stronger here we see him toying around with buu for a good portion of the fight and not only that goku cant exhert too much energy or he will burn through the time he has left on earth and cant teach goten and trunks fusion. The entire reason goku even fights buu is to stall for trunks so implying goku is weaker than buu here doesnt make much sense imo

Skill, Experience, etc, If he was slightly weaker, he could still do much to win to fight, it isn't an absolute

 

[Infinite9Luck]

I'm unsure where to place my vote ATM so put me as neutral

What you think of this?

The Most Troublesome Buu: Buu scaling revision

Super Buu Base Innocent Buu Implied to be stronger than before. Nvm. He's stated to be stronger than before. Gotenks (V2 Base) By Trunks's estimate, they're even with Super Buu in base/Super Saiyan. (V2 Base) Piccolo sees their base and thinks they're capable of beating Super Buu. These...

vsbattles.com

TDLR: A possible rating for Kid Buu and Goku

 

[Mbpoops]

Yeah... there is more to a fight than just how strong both opponents are, even irl that is how it works, that was the point

Ur ignoring the entire point here. The only reason goku “won” here was because they jumped radiz and even then goku still died the only reason they were able to kill radiz was because piccolo’s attack had a higher pl than radiz

Skill, Experience, etc, If he was slightly weaker, he could still do much to win to fight, it isn't an absolute

Skill and experience dont matter if buu beats the shit out of him and regen before he can apply these things and again ignoring the narritive implications of goku holding back here

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

we might as well be saying hercule = kid buu because he took a bunch from him and dodged his attacks

I agree with this btw, my GOAT has been downplayed too long.

... wdym "no"? You can't give me an ultimatum lol

I simply see no need to summarize further what i already wrotte clearly in my first message, that's all... also why put "misunderstandings" in quotes as if you are quoting something? weird

He is just asking what is your thesis. Like how do you think the Buu Scaling Chain works - like Buu A > Buu B > Buu D >= Buu C - or something like that

 

[KingTempest]

?... What? If he can beat him, he's stronger at this point you are arguing non-sense, and that is not innocent Buu, Goku fought Fat Buu.

You can beat people you are equal to I hope you know that. Gotenks was equal to super Buu and could beat him

 

[Omegabronic]

Ur ignoring the entire point here. The only reason goku “won” here was because they jumped radiz and even then goku still died the only reason they were able to kill radiz was because piccolo’s attack had a higher pl than radiz

And you are ignoring the point i made... that there's more in a fight than purely power, that is all i said

Skill and experience dont matter if buu beats the shit out of him and regen before he can apply these things

For him to "beat the shit out of" Goku he would need to be significantly stronger than Goku... which i never said, we simply are given no further information of how these two compare in the manga other than "Goku thinks he could have beaten him" which give no concrete scale between the two

and again ignoring the narritive implications of goku holding back here

Less ignoring, more that it doesn't really matter, Goku trew the towel early, sure... that doesn't make the one statement being discussed any more or less concrete on how close or not they are in power

 

[Damage3245]

You can beat people you are equal to I hope you know that. Gotenks was equal to super Buu and could beat him

Plus even if Goku was superior to Fat Buu, it doesn't mean he had to be holding back massively in order to avoid beating him. He just decided to stop fighting midway through once he was done buying time.

 

[Mbpoops]

And you are ignoring the point i made... that there's more in a fight than purely power, that is all i said

Im not ignoring them i addressed them. The comparrison you made was goku and piccolo vs radiz which goku had help with and still died because their power levels were too low. There is more to a fight than power level yea but in the context of goku vs buu if goku had a smaller pl he would have been turned into candy and goten and trunks dont learn fusion

For him to "beat the shit out of" Goku he would need to be significantly stronger than Goku... which i never said, we simply are given no further information of how these two compare in the manga other than "Goku thinks he could have beaten him" which give no concrete scale between the two

Well no actually if ur saying buu was even slightly stronger then he would have undoubtably beat the shit out of goku he would have the speed and power advantage and those skills and techniques goku could use wouldnt mean much if buu just regens from it.

Less ignoring, more that it doesn't really matter, Goku trew the towel early, sure... that doesn't make the one statement being discussed any more or less concrete on how close or not they are in power

How does it not matter? Goku is only there to stall this point was made clear multiple times with him literally monologing to himself abt trunks taking too long. Goku CANT go full power here or else he will burn through his time on earth. We dont need goku saying “i held back against buu” for it to be true we can infer from the context he was holding back its pretty obvious the only reason they are close in strength is because goku held back

 

[MannyQ361]

If Goku got stronger/demonstrated more power after fighting Fat Buu, couldn't there be a Late Buu Arc/Kid Buu Fight key for him?

 

[TiltedFN]

The OP and thread are long. Can I ask you to post those statements here together? Those do seem to be the crux of this.

Well instead, I can quote Infinite's post which sums of everything pretty nicely.
Basically, it is confirmed by mostly all important sources that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu. This was Toriyama's intent and narrative decisions he made.
I find the evidence being far far stronger than not. So I don't think it's good to ignore them.

I think it is a bit unfair to claim this when all the scans about this point were kind of ignored. Just to be clear:

do you disagree with the Shonen Jump 50th Anniversary that explicitly calls the manga version of Kid Buu, the one that destroyed Earth, the strongest Majin?
Do you disagree with Toriyama not contradicting the claim that the smallest form, in this case Majin Buu, is the strongest?
Do you disagree with Toriyama saying that each side keeps transforming and getting more and more powerful until the Genkidama?
Do you disagree with Toriyama’s view that if a new version of a villain appears weaker, the reader would not be satisfied?
Do you also disagree with the official anime stating multiple times that Kid Buu is the strongest? (I know the anime is not canon to the manga, but it is still an official medium, and it supports my interpretation)

Additionally, the author in charge officially of DB Kai explicitly stated that they stayed faithful to the manga, this is not the DBZ anime, is a remake made faithful to the manga, these are people that fully understand and can read the japanese version of the manga, yet even in DB Kai, Kid Buu is stated to be the strongest. Again, the DB Kai version cut a plethora of anime-only moments and exaggerations, yet they still kept this. So do you think we can interpret the japanese manga better than them?

I am going to ask you the opposite question: what even supports, with the same amount of evidence, that Buuhan is the strongest?

Basically, every official medium says otherwise, every official Dragon Ball medium support our interpretation of the manga. It is kind of hard to ignore all of this and just say there is no proof of Kid Buu being the strongest. And it is also kind of superficial dismiss everything with 1) not canon or 2) "anime only" as if, they are not official interpretation of the source material? (Sill lot of proof strictly manga wise were presented as well in the whole OP).

Spoiler: Gotenks Stuff

Gotenks's Stuff:

Also, another small correction: Gotenks is not really that strong. Toriyama himself support that. A rusty after Buu-saga SSJ Goku, in a manga drawn by Toriyama, outclassed Super Saiyan Gotenks. This is a manga drawn by Toriyama himself.
Vegeta explicitly says in DBS that Goku was the strongest after defeating Buu, not in BOG, but after defeating Buu he was already. Toriyama’s portrayal suggests that end-of-Buu-saga Goku is the strongest, as he himself said: Goku is always the strongest.

Vegeta states Goku is the number 1, and it refers to power, the anime also clarify this by saying Goku is simply the strongest. Once again, every external medium support this interpretation.

There is so many proof... Toriyama wrote Dragon Ball Daima and again, confirmed Goku is the strongest.This is Goku right after the Buu Saga.

This is confirmed in the Daizenshuu as well. In this picture, the image is computer-made, but in the original magazine the descriptions refer to the whole character, SSJ3 included. Just because you see base Gotenks here does not mean the description refers only to him in that form; it refers to Gotenks as a whole. In fact, there is no separate description for Gotenks’ other forms, and this description clearly says that Gotenks has only surpassed Vegeta and the others.
But wait, if he were massively above Goku, then why even say “Vegeta and the others”? Vegeta is not even the main character, neither Vegeta is stronger than Goku. It is clear that nowhere is it stated that Gotenks surpassed Goku. Actually, the statement that he surpassed “Vegeta and the others” strongly implies that he did not surpass Goku whatsoever. If that was the case, it would have been stated, "he has surpassed Goku and the others"

And like I said, if you're still not convinced, just go with the 'Buuhan Agenda' if you're views still align with that.

 

[KingTempest]

If Goku got stronger/demonstrated more power after fighting Fat Buu, couldn't there be a Late Buu Arc/Kid Buu Fight key for him?

He DIDN'T.
The only thing proving Goku got any stronger was that he fought Kid Buu.
This verse is so used to this mindset of unnecessary growth that we just mop up scaling inconsistencies to "new keys".
Goku did not grow after he fought Fat Buu. He went to heaven, came back, threw a destructo disc, then didn't throw a single punch until it was time to fight Kid Buu.
IT'S THE SAME PERSON.

 

[Mbpoops]

He DIDN'T.
The only thing proving Goku got any stronger was that he fought Kid Buu.
This verse is so used to this mindset of unnecessary growth that we just mop up scaling inconsistencies to "new keys".
Goku did not grow after he fought Fat Buu. He went to heaven, came back, threw a destructo disc, then didn't throw a single punch until it was time to fight Kid Buu.
IT'S THE SAME PERSON.

So then logically he just held back against fat buu

 

[Mbpoops]

i thought i remembered goku saying something abt buu’s power shrinking after they freed everyone i couldve been mistaken (cant find it) but goku being cocky seeing kid buu shrank thinking they could win is a bit weird considering he can sense ki. It could be likely to assume kid buu’s ki also shrank when he lost gohan and the others meaning hes weaker than buuhan but idk just seems weird that the guys who sense ki think smaller = weaker

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[KingTempest]

So then logically he just held back against fat buu

The databook says that they're equals.
Goku struggled against him and his inner thoughts spoke for themselves.
"I didn't hurt him at all"

Like let's not be dishonest just to act like Goku coulda easily one shot him or something when he was using Kamehamehas that were getting deflected

 

[KingTempest]

i thought i remembered goku saying something abt buu’s power shrinking after they freed everyone i couldve been mistaken (cant find it) but goku being cocky seeing kid buu shrank thinking they could win is a bit weird considering he can sense ki. It could be likely to assume kid buu’s ki also shrank when he lost gohan and the others meaning hes weaker than buuhan but idk just seems weird that the guys who sense ki think smaller = weaker

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anime canon is different plus this is his size

 

[Infinite9Luck]

You can beat people you are equal to I hope you know that. Gotenks was equal to super Buu and could beat him

I think this thread took a bit a wrong direction, but I noticed you are not familiar with many things about Dragon Ball.

You say many incorrect things, and every time I tried to correct those, I have been ignored.

You keep saying, “we are ignoring the Daizenshuu saying Fat Buu is equal to Goku,” but I am going to ask you this:

Do you even know how the Daizenshuu works?
It is not a guidebook that gives general information about every character at every point in the story.

It just narrates what happens chapter by chapter. In that case, it says that Goku, by transforming in that specific chapter 474, fought equally. That contradicts nothing.

All of the statements about Kid Buu being superior are from actual sources or interviews that came after the manga was finished and that encompass all the information.

It is also funny, because you say "we ignore the Daizenshuu", but the Daizenshuu also implies that Gotenks never surpassed Goku.

You use “El Manga Legendario” as an argument, but we have no way to verify whether those Spanish translations are even accurate to the Japanese. It is not a trustworthy source. If you can actually provide the original Japanese, then yes, it could be used as an argument. For my scans and sources, I provided the actual original language. But you can't because it is been published only in spain.

And knowing how badly Dragon Ball has been translated by Viz in English, a world-wide language, using a Spanish translation might be even worse. It can even be a fan-fiction.

You said that Goku just tried to flex, which undermines his statements and a clear core trait of his character: that he held back because he wanted the younger generation to grow up and defend Earth. Goku is the type of character who has no issue admitting when he is inferior. If he says he could have won, then he could have won, period. It is not a flex, it is a fact. And you do not beat Majin Buu by being equal.

In fact, you lose by being equal, because Buu has infinite stamina. So for Goku to defeat Buu in that context, and actually save Earth, he would need to completely overpower him.

1) If he was equal, he would have lost due to stamina
2) if he was inferior, he had no way to win at all

Only Solution: He need to be strong enough to kick his ass before his stamina were off, which is what he admits he could have done if he wanted. It is that simple.

“Gotenks is equal to Super Buu” No, he is not. A serious Gotenks is stronger than him. Super Buu clealry was pressed by his punches and would have been obliterated by his KKH if the fusion had not worn off as well.

There are sources from the author, from the work Daima set right after the Buu Saga, and from other manga, that consistently show Goku superior to Gotenks and Gohan. He has stated that Goku is always the strongest and number one, and ALL version of anime, TOEI, KAI, DBS also presents it that way.

The original manga version of SJ as well:

悟空が最強か!?全宇宙のパワー吸収!!
"Is Goku the strongest? Absorbing the energy from all the universe"

The same Super Genki Dama is stated to be the strongest and final hope, and Kid Buu still blocked it. Goku then needed a x50 boost.

Before you say “Goku was too weak,” even a half-dead Goku’s Genki Dama against Frieza could not be blocked, yet Kid Buu did block this one. And this was supposed to be the strongest thing in the universe. Keep in mind, Gohan was still very much alive at that moment.

You are basically saying "yeah I'm going to ignore all of this because I think I'm right about how to interpret the manga" when those different official media clearly contradict your interpretation.

DB Kai is created as remake with the sole purpose to be faithful to the manga and still keep Goku and Kid Buu as the strongest, yet again, you just dismiss everything that contradicts you.

I’m actually going to stop this, but you also claimed that the Kaioshins did not even make him weaker, which proves you did not even read the OP the first time you commented. And many other things.

So I dont think it is fair at all.

 

[Vietthai96]

The databook says that they're equals.
Goku struggled against him and his inner thoughts spoke for themselves.
"I didn't hurt him at all"

Like let's not be dishonest just to act like Goku coulda easily one shot him or something when he was using Kamehamehas that were getting deflected

Ngl here, Goku literally need to not wasting his energy due to being a dead guy, and iirc Goku was literally damaging Buu, just Buu can regenerate thus realistically speaking Goku can't hurt him due to his regen

Beside, Goku later have his life back by Old Kai

 

[Mbpoops]

The databook says that they're equals.
Goku struggled against him and his inner thoughts spoke for themselves.
"I didn't hurt him at all"

Well yea buu is nigh immortal id be surprised too if my opponent fully healed after my attack

Like let's not be dishonest just to act like Goku coulda easily one shot him or something when he was using Kamehamehas that were getting deflected

Im not saying he would just one tap him even vegeta’s final explosion didnt work i just think its narratively implied goku had to hold back here or else he would have burned through his time on earth. I mean goku was also knocking buu’s attacks back and the fight was just stalling for trunks

 

[Mbpoops]

Ngl here, Goku literally need to not wasting his energy due to being a dead guy, and iirc Goku was literally damaging Buu, just Buu can regenerate thus realistically speaking Goku can't hurt him due to his regen

Beside, Goku later have his life back by Old Kai

Like i said goku HAS to hold back here or he’ll burn through his time on earth and goten and trunks dont learn fusion so everyone dies

 

[Phsccarvalho]

You use “El Manga Legendario” as an argument, but we have no way to verify whether those Spanish translations are even accurate to the Japanese. It is not a trustworthy source. If you can actually provide the original Japanese, then yes, it could be used as an argument. For my scans and sources, I provided the actual original language. But you can't because it is been published only in spain.

I thought this guide book only existed in a Spanish version, like, exclusively in a foreign language, never having been released in Japan.

 

[KingTempest]

I love how I said something specifically about scaling Fat Buu and SSJ3 Goku and I get another wall of text involving kid buu scaling and goku being the strongest character ever that I didn't ask about..
Only thing I'm replying is the stuff that's important

You keep saying, “we are ignoring the Daizenshuu saying Fat Buu is equal to Goku,” but I am going to ask you this:

Do you even know how the Daizenshuu works?
It is not a guidebook that gives general information about every character at every point in the story.

It just narrates what happens chapter by chapter. In that case, it says that Goku, by transforming in that specific chapter 474, fought equally. That contradicts nothing.

This is a lie. The Daizenshuu literally has several sections regarding different things for different purposes.
It does not say "Goku by transforming in this specific chapter is equal to Majin Buu", it says that Goku used super saiyan 3, a transformation that allows him to fight evenly with Majin Buu.

Why are we reading "he likes pancakes" and taking away "he hates waffles".

Ngl here, Goku literally need to not wasting his energy due to being a dead guy, and iirc Goku was literally damaging Buu, just Buu can regenerate thus realistically speaking Goku can't hurt him due to his regen

No brudda
Goku transformed to Super Saiyan 3 and said he wasn't used to it.
Then he rushed Buu and punched him around, Goku noted that Buu took no damage from his physical blows, then Goku got punched in the face, and they admired each others strength.
They traded blows.
Goku blasted a hole in his gut with the Kamehameha. He regenned.
Buu copied him and blasted a Kamehameha. Goku deflected it with a 2 arm swing, Buu parried it with his arm.

This is the most even fight in the history of Dragon Ball tied with maybe GokuvTien, GokuvMajinVegeta, and maybe Piccolov17.

Idk why Goku would use a form that he isn't comfortable with that's merely 4x his stablest form and bodies him, THEN HOLD BACK.

Beside, Goku later have his life back by Old Kai

Idk the relevance but yeah.

 

[Omegabronic]

Im not ignoring them i addressed them. The comparrison you made was goku and piccolo vs radiz which goku had help with and still died because their power levels were too low. There is more to a fight than power level yea but in the context of goku vs buu if goku had a smaller pl he would have been turned into candy and goten and trunks dont learn fusion

He could have dodged them, he has the Kamehameha to greatly increase his attack to destroy buu, dodge the candy beams, etc, the Raditz situation was simply an example of how fights, even in DB, do not come down to just power, Goku was clearly able to harm Buu, so the gap wouldn't be small if there was any anyway

Well no actually if ur saying buu was even slightly stronger then he would have undoubtably beat the shit out of goku

I... never said that if Buu was slightly stronger he would have beat the "shit out" of Goku... what are you talking about?

he would have the speed and power advantage and those skills and techniques goku could use wouldnt mean much if buu just regens from it.

If Buu is destroyed thoroughly, then he can't regenerate, the Kamehameha at full power would be enough, as Goku himself said so against Kid Buu

How does it not matter? Goku is only there to stall this point was made clear multiple times with him literally monologing to himself abt trunks taking too long. Goku CANT go full power here or else he will burn through his time on earth. We dont need goku saying “i held back against buu” for it to be true we can infer from the context he was holding back its pretty obvious the only reason they are close in strength is because goku held back

I never denied that he held back against Buu... i just don't see how it matters for the fact that the one line we are discussing doesn't give us much on the gap, if any, between them

 

[Omegabronic]

i thought i remembered goku saying something abt buu’s power shrinking after they freed everyone i couldve been mistaken (cant find it) but goku being cocky seeing kid buu shrank thinking they could win is a bit weird considering he can sense ki. It could be likely to assume kid buu’s ki also shrank when he lost gohan and the others meaning hes weaker than buuhan but idk just seems weird that the guys who sense ki think smaller = weaker

My Gallery — Postimages

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why are you showing anime images? We are talking about the manga here

 

[Robo432343]

Kid Buu being the strongest in the anime is contradicted multiple times in the anime itself. Please stop using anime scans

 

[KingTempest]

Screw that

The anime is not CANON HERE.

Stop with the anime scans

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

maybe GokuvTien

Goku had the upperhand that entire fight

 

[TiltedFN]

I love how I said something specifically about scaling Fat Buu and SSJ3 Goku and I get another wall of text involving kid buu scaling and goku being the strongest character ever that I didn't ask about..

It is relevant. But you're brushing over all the proof in place of your own narrative so of course it's going to get brought up.
You've consistently ignored every single argument that has been brought up repeatedly and misunderstood the story multiple times.

Only thing I'm replying is the stuff that's important

You really aren't. You're legit arguing Fat Buu and SSJ3 Goku or somehow equal when we know for a fact that they aren't.
This came out of Goku's own mouth that he definitely could have beaten the Fat Buu at any time.

No brudda
Goku transformed to Super Saiyan 3 and said he wasn't used to it.
Then he rushed Buu and punched him around, Goku noted that Buu took no damage from his physical blows, then Goku got punched in the face, and they admired each others strength.

Why does it matter? At Goku's current power he was outputting, it was only enough to fight Buu and hold him at bay so Trunks could get the radar without being blown up instantly. Did you already forget the entire reason Goku confronted them to begin with? It was literally just to stall time.
Why would Goku use more energy than needed for no reason when he was trying to save time on earth to teach the boys fusion AND hold Buu off?
Simply reading the story would answer these questions for you.

They traded blows.
Goku blasted a hole in his gut with the Kamehameha. He regenned.
Buu copied him and blasted a Kamehameha. Goku deflected it with a 2 arm swing, Buu parried it with his arm.

This is the most even fight in the history of Dragon Ball tied with maybe GokuvTien, GokuvMajinVegeta, and maybe Piccolov17.

It's only 'even' because Goku isn't going all out dude.
If Goku holds back to Buu's level, then obviously it would appear even?
But we know Buu was outclassed here, so why do you insist on implying otherwise? You're just wrong here.

Idk why Goku would use a form that he isn't comfortable with that's merely 4x his stablest form and bodies him, THEN HOLD BACK.

Oh idk, maybe to buy time like we've been telling you? The transformation only took a long time because he doesn't go into it that often. That's literally it.
He can use the form just fine and was able to fight with it just fine.
Clearly Goku is able to regular his energy usage since he was able to hold back to an significant degree as to not kill Buu while also making sure he didn't completely run out of time on earth. Do you want him to just use Super Saiyan 2 and get killed for no reason, Tempest?

 

[KingTempest]

 

[Mbpoops]

why are you showing anime images? We are talking about the manga here

Screw that

The anime is not CANON HERE.

Stop with the anime scans

was already explained to me by tempest so my bad for that

 

[TheFallenProfit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this forum agrees that Super Boo's absorptions are merely additive thus Boohan is essentially just Super Boo + Gohan.

Gotenks is stronger than Super Boo yet weaker than Ssj3 Goku as himself and Vegeta considered him to be more powerful than Gohan and Gotenks as a duo.

Given the exponential nature of the spirit bomb, where ki from individuals whos PL's dont even crack triple digits, becomes strong enough to contest, overpower, and defeat characters hundreds to thousands of time stronger than them, Gohans portion alone should already be leagues above Boohan yet was also still stated to not be enough.

There's also the fact that both Goku and Vegeta didnt realize how strong Kid Boo truly was until he showcased his fullpower against the spirit bomb to which afterwards, Both Goku and Vegeta admit that nobody could've beaten Kid Boo and that they'd all need to train to beat him with EoZ Goku still not being sure if he could beat him after 10 years of dedicated training.

There's no route where Boohan ever stood a chance to be the strongest.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You use “El Manga Legendario” as an argument, but we have no way to verify whether those Spanish translations are even accurate to the Japanese. It is not a trustworthy source.

To my knowledge you won't. The book came out in Europe as a French/Spanish thing afaik

would like to hear @Qawsedf234's opinion, because I think you and him are the one that fully read the OP and parteciped for the discussion.

Like I said in my original comment the main issue with the proposal is the scaling chain presented. Everyone from Majin Vegeta to Buuhan has to fit within a SS3 power boost for the scaling to work.

So either Goku got significantly stronger, SS3 is more than a 4x boost, or Goku could've one shot Vegeta in base for the scaling to work.

I think "possibly" doesn't work either. Kid Buu is either accepted as being stronger or he's not, since it'll just create a circular scaling chain if he's 4-B, possibly higher or something like that.

I guess the easiest option would be to make an End of Buu Saga key which is strictly just a Goku thing, but I don't know what the justification of the key would be.

 

[TiltedFN]

To my knowledge you won't. The book came out in Europe as a French/Spanish thing afaik

Like I said in my original comment the main issue with the proposal is the scaling chain presented. Everyone from Majin Vegeta to Buuhan has to fit within a SS3 power boost for the scaling to work.

So either Goku got significantly stronger, SS3 is more than a 4x boost, or Goku could've one shot Vegeta in base for the scaling to work.

I think "possibly" doesn't work either. Kid Buu is either accepted as being stronger or he's not, since it'll just create a circular scaling chain if he's 4-B, possibly higher or something like that.

I guess the easiest option would be to make an End of Buu Saga key which is strictly just a Goku thing, but I don't know what the justification of the key would be.

It would definitey be something like:

'With Goku having grown stronger, he is able to fight on par with Kid Buu, even being stated to have the power to obliterate him instantly with max power'

If we were to go with that option, I agree that a likely of possibly rating shouldn't be used here. Especially with the overwhelming amount of evidence and statements that Goku just is that strong and thats how it was intended to be. And how Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, stronger than Super Buu at the very very least.

 

[Qawsedf234]

With Goku having grown stronger, he is able to fight on par with Kid Buu, even being stated to have the power to obliterate him instantly with max power'

I'm fine with that

 

[Saqphire]

Would Goku fighting Kid Buu in his mental plane in DBS justify or at least support Kid Buu being the strongest? Since it shows his opponents that he percieves as their strongest I think, and if it was Buuhan then Goku woulda percieved him?

 

[Damage3245]

Would Goku fighting Kid Buu in his mental plane in DBS justify or at least support Kid Buu being the strongest? Since it shows his opponents that he percieves as their srongest I think, and if it was Buuhan then Goku woulda percieved him?

I don't think it would justify it necessarily as we don't know that he's envisioning the strongest versions of each character that he's fighting. For example, Frieza is not in his 100% form in his imagination. It could be as simple as he's just envisioning the major opponents that he's personally fought before, as he didn't directly fight Buuhan as himself.

 

[Saqphire]

I don't think it would justify it necessarily as we don't know that he's envisioning the strongest versions of each character that he's fighting. For example, Frieza is not in his 100% form in his imagination. It could be as simple as he's just envisioning the major opponents that he's personally fought before, as he didn't directly fight Buuhan as himself.

Fair enough actually.

 

[TiltedFN]

Would Goku fighting Kid Buu in his mental plane in DBS justify or at least support Kid Buu being the strongest? Since it shows his opponents that he percieves as their srongest I think, and if it was Buuhan then Goku woulda percieved him?

It definitely could, yeah. DBS straight up called Buu the strongest enemy while showing a picture of Kid Buu at the start. Sure he didn't imagine 100 percent Frieza, but Frieza isn't the same as Buu in terms of his evolution. It's still final form Frieza. Kid Buu is Buu's 'final' form in terms of what we saw in the story. Frieza was the strongest Villain of that arc, so was Perfect Cell. It follows a clear formula when showing Kid Buu. Goku doesn't settle for less, really. So imo yeah it can be used as evidence. Especially on top of the mountains of evidence and statements that already have Kid Buu as the strongest regardless.