Blade Spam vs Fish Spam(Ye Shunguang{Zenless Zone Zero} vs Gyokko{DemonSlayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba}) 7-0-0(Grace finished)

[MysticBrawler]

Ye Shunguang(with the Qingming Sword)-7

Gyokko

Distance: 10 meters
Speed Equalized
SBA for the rest

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump

 

[Sooshirohl]

alright so off rip i don't think shunguang should get battle spirit diffed here since resistance to ether corruption grants her resistance to fear manip, which can inflict similar negative ailments to DS' battle spirit stuff from the looks of it.

stats wise, gyokko has a 2.7x AP advantage, which only widens if he molts. shunguang has ways of boosting her stats but idk if it'd be enough to close the gap. although, she has multiple ways to simply dura neg and bypass resistances so in her case, it doesn't really matter that much. LS wise, shunguang has the pretty comical advantage of over 82x, so she's definitely stronger in that regard.

i actually think shunguang has ways of dealing with a lot of gyokko's trickier stuff. she resists transmutation so i don't think she's getting instantly turned into a fish with a single touch, and while she doesn't inherently resist poison, the qingming sword's passive purification might be able to just immediately purify the poison if she gets caught by one of the fishes. i honestly don't remember a lot of gyokko's fight against muichiro (i watched S3 when it was airing but i kind of forgot a lot of the details admittedly), but i don't recall how good things like his flight and danmaku are. i'm not sure if i'd say his danmaku can really compete with shunguang's because shunguang's is genuinely ridiculous, and i'm also not sure if i'd say his flight and mobility are nearly as good as shunguang's are. especially with the difference in range between the two, unless gyokko goes for some of his more lethal options immediately i feel like shunguang just flies up in the air and just pelts him with her danmaku.

the sort of elephant in the room is whether or not shunguang is actually gonna be able to kill gyokko. shunguang has ways of bypassing dura with her attacks and with her spatial manip, but the regen is gonna make it really hard for her to keep him down permanently. coupled with the stamina difference, if gyokko decides to just camp out in his pots and play a prolonged battle of attrition i think he could pretty easily just wait out shunguang until she runs out of stamina and just snag an easy W from there.

i feel like shunguang can probably just do what muichiro did and decapitate him with a spatial cut before proceeding to chop him up into pieces, but i do also think gyokko could probably win if he plays his cards right. i'll probably wait a bit to see more args before i cast a vote but that's my two cents atm

 

[MysticBrawler]

the sort of elephant in the room is whether or not shunguang is actually gonna be able to kill gyokko. shunguang has ways of bypassing dura with her attacks and with her spatial manip, but the regen is gonna make it really hard for her to keep him down permanently. coupled with the stamina difference, if gyokko decides to just camp out in his pots and play a prolonged battle of attrition i think he could pretty easily just wait out shunguang until she runs out of stamina and just snag an easy W from there.

i feel like shunguang can probably just do what muichiro did and decapitate him with a spatial cut before proceeding to chop him up into pieces, but i do also think gyokko could probably win if he plays his cards right. i'll probably wait a bit to see more args before i cast a vote but that's my two cents atm

I was thinking that the Qingming Sword's passive Purification could work against Demon Blood and allow Ye Shunguang to permanently kill Gyokko, though if that's not an option she could always incapacitate Gyokko by pinning him down with her numerous blades. I was also thinking that Ye Shunguang could use her Perception Technique: Disintegration to permanently kill Gyokko as well.

 

[Sooshirohl]

I was thinking that the Qingming Sword's passive Purification could work against Demon Blood and allow Ye Shunguang to permanently kill Gyokko

the qingming sword's aura just disintegrating gyokko the second it makes contact with him sounds kinda funny ngl lol. not sure how legitimately valid that is but it's possible i guess

though if that's not an option she could always incapacitate Gyokko by pinning him down with her numerous blades.

this is possible especially with the LS gap, but would gyokko not just be able to teleport to one of his pots or something to free himself?

I was also thinking that Ye Shunguang could use her Perception Technique: Disintegration to permanently kill Gyokko as well.

i wouldn't really bank on the disintegration technique being a strong wincon since in-character it's never used offensively to just straight up kill people or even ethereals. at best i think shunguang would probably just use it to destroy gyokko's pots

 

[MysticBrawler]

the qingming sword's aura just disintegrating gyokko the second it makes contact with him sounds kinda funny ngl lol. not sure how legitimately valid that is but it's possible i guess

Yeah I'm not sure how viable this is either.

this is possible especially with the LS gap, but would gyokko not just be able to teleport to one of his pots or something to free himself?

He seems lo lose access to his pots when he enters his Molt form so that will be her chance to pin him down.

i wouldn't really bank on the disintegration technique being a strong wincon since in-character it's never used offensively to just straight up kill people or even ethereals. at best i think shunguang would probably just use it to destroy gyokko's pots

Well it is still useful for cornering Gyokko so that he'll be forced to enter his Molt form

 

[Sooshirohl]

went back and reread gyokko's fight against muichiro just to get a refresher on his abilities. going through all his BDA abilities :

thousand needle fish kill - danmaku attack that's actually more lethal than i remember it being. it shoots really fast and can poison/paralyze you if caught. although i think shunguang is mobile enough to evade the needles, can likely counter them with her own danmaku, could call her sword case to her and use it as a shield if necessary to defend against the needles, and if she does get caught by them, the qingming sword's purification should be able to help get rid of the negative ailments

octopus vase hell - giant tentacles that sprout out of a vase and restrain the target. shunguang should have no trouble breaking out of their grasp with the ridiculous LS gap, and she can just chop the tentacles up into pieces like muichiro did

water prison pot - vase that seems to spill water onto opponents and trap them in a water prison. this would be dangerous if shunguang got caught in it, but i do think her tendency to fly and remain in the air makes it so that actually getting caught by the attack would be a lot harder. if she does get caught in it, i'd wager that a spatial cut would probably be enough to just immediately cut through the water and break her out of it

ten thousand gliding slime fish - another danmaku attack that's arguably more dangerous than thousand needle fish kill. it's a giant stream of fish, but shunguang should be able to counter it with her own danmaku, as she's been shown being able to counter giant streams of danmaku with her own. the poison that come out of the fish should also be mitigated via the qingming sword's purification

killer fish scales - gyokko moves around really fast and launches a bunch of disorienting attacks with his speed. might be dangerous, but shunguang should be able to track his movements with enhanced senses and extrasensory perception. plus she can also just...fly up and get out of range of his attacks

i think i'm going to go with shunguang here overall. the range and mobility diff is kinda just the biggest factor imo, the second the fight starts rather than just immediately engaging gyokko head on like what muichiro did i think she's going to instead just fly up and immediately start raining down her insane danmaku on him. a lot of gyokko's more dangerous abilities like the poison and transmutation are things shunguang should have ways of dealing with, but even disregarding that i also feel like the range diff is just way too big for any of gyokko's attacks to even reach her, especially if she just flies up and rains down danmaku. i honestly think gyokko has a better chance staying in his normal form, because going into his molted form just makes him a way bigger target susceptible to being pinned down and decapitated with a spatial cut. gyokko's best hope would be to stay in his potted form and camp shunguang out until she runs out of energy, but given his personality i highly doubt he'd do that. shunguang gets my vote

 

[MysticBrawler]

went back and reread gyokko's fight against muichiro just to get a refresher on his abilities. going through all his BDA abilities :

thousand needle fish kill - danmaku attack that's actually more lethal than i remember it being. it shoots really fast and can poison/paralyze you if caught. although i think shunguang is mobile enough to evade the needles, can likely counter them with her own danmaku, could call her sword case to her and use it as a shield if necessary to defend against the needles, and if she does get caught by them, the qingming sword's purification should be able to help get rid of the negative ailments

octopus vase hell - giant tentacles that sprout out of a vase and restrain the target. shunguang should have no trouble breaking out of their grasp with the ridiculous LS gap, and she can just chop the tentacles up into pieces like muichiro did

water prison pot - vase that seems to spill water onto opponents and trap them in a water prison. this would be dangerous if shunguang got caught in it, but i do think her tendency to fly and remain in the air makes it so that actually getting caught by the attack would be a lot harder. if she does get caught in it, i'd wager that a spatial cut would probably be enough to just immediately cut through the water and break her out of it

ten thousand gliding slime fish - another danmaku attack that's arguably more dangerous than thousand needle fish kill. it's a giant stream of fish, but shunguang should be able to counter it with her own danmaku, as she's been shown being able to counter giant streams of danmaku with her own. the poison that come out of the fish should also be mitigated via the qingming sword's purification

killer fish scales - gyokko moves around really fast and launches a bunch of disorienting attacks with his speed. might be dangerous, but shunguang should be able to track his movements with enhanced senses and extrasensory perception. plus she can also just...fly up and get out of range of his attacks

i think i'm going to go with shunguang here overall. the range and mobility diff is kinda just the biggest factor imo, the second the fight starts rather than just immediately engaging gyokko head on like what muichiro did i think she's going to instead just fly up and immediately start raining down her insane danmaku on him. a lot of gyokko's more dangerous abilities like the poison and transmutation are things shunguang should have ways of dealing with, but even disregarding that i also feel like the range diff is just way too big for any of gyokko's attacks to even reach her, especially if she just flies up and rains down danmaku. i honestly think gyokko has a better chance staying in his normal form, because going into his molted form just makes him a way bigger target susceptible to being pinned down and decapitated with a spatial cut. gyokko's best hope would be to stay in his potted form and camp shunguang out until she runs out of energy, but given his personality i highly doubt he'd do that. shunguang gets my vote

Counted, and thanks for joining in.

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Have you called the other KnY supporters to come here?

 

[MysticBrawler]

Have you called the other KnY supporters to come here?

No, but I did let them know that this thread exists so I'll just wait for a bit for someone to come here.

 

[GodEarh206]

Xiaoguang FRA

 

[MysticBrawler]

Xiaoguang FRA

Counted, and thanks for joining in.

 

[Sooshirohl]

bump

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump

 

[Doggo]

ZZZ waifu FRA

 

[MysticBrawler]

ZZZ waifu FRA

Counted, and thanks for joining in.

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump

 

[Sooshirohl]

bump

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump

 

[Naito-desu]

Uhh, not really sure what to say in counter so I think I'll just vote Ye Shunguang for Sooshirohl's reasons

 

[MysticBrawler]

Uhh, not really sure what to say in counter so I think I'll just vote Ye Shunguang for Sooshirohl's reasons

Counted, and thanks for joining in.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Voting Ye Shunguang FRA

 

[MysticBrawler]

Voting Ye Shunguang FRA

Counted, and thanks for joining in.

 

[Sooshirohl]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

Does Shuguang's soul-based purification even work against Gyoko's biological corruption
Iirc demon slayer doesn't have a soul system besides afterlife shenanigans and Muzan's corruption is just biological changes and memory suppression
How does Ye Shuguang's purification work here when Gyokko's soul is fine, especially since he was an *sshole even as a human

Not to mention, purifying Ether Corruption seems more thaumaturgical and eldritch compared to Gyokko's basically just pufferfish poison. Im not sure thats really the same thing and therefore im doubtful she can ignore the poison

Ye Shuguang decapitating Gyokko with a spacial cut also doesn't work cuz she doesn't incorporate sunlight into any of her attacks. Glowing white doesn't count in this case, its not like a torch or a flashlight can kill demons in DS. Gyokko gets decapitated and just instantly regenerates

The AP advantage alone honestly makes things tough enough already since Ye Shuguang's Danmaku is countered with Gyokko's own. Except his is nearly 3 times stronger so her projectiles just shatter against the fish unironically. I honestly think its way more realistic for Gyokko to overwhelm her with sheer AP this way

TLDR Ye Shuguang's purification shouldn't work on Muzan's blood or Gyokko's poison, spacial decapitation isnt a wincon, and therefore Ye Shuguang has literally no more wincons left

Voting Gyokko

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

demon slayer doesn't have a soul system besides afterlife shenanigans and Muzan's corruption is just biological changes and memory suppression

What?

Over half of the Mugen Train movie was based around Enmu using his blood demon art in order to kill the souls of Tanjiro Zenitsu Inosuke and Rengoku

Tanjiro also has resistance to soul manipulation. This is also Tanjiro's soul



Muzan also has soul manipulation via suppressing Tanjiro's soul and summoning the souls of those he absorbed

 

[Mickey1940]

What?

Over half of the Mugen Train movie was based around Enmu using his blood demon art in order to kill the souls of Tanjiro Zenitsu Inosuke and Rengoku

Tanjiro also has resistance to soul manipulation. This is also Tanjiro's soul



Muzan also has soul manipulation via suppressing Tanjiro's soul and summoning the souls of those he absorbed

Enmu doesn't even have soul manipulation on his profile since his blood demon art is destroying the target's mind and memories. Yeah it's called a "Spiritual Core" but it's not explicitly stated to be the soul of a person, especially since people who die like this most likely still go to the afterlife, and therefore their soul isn't destroyed.

As for Muzan, I honestly don't know why him summoning Tamayo's memories in the final battle is considered soul manipulation since he's accessing Tamayo's memory cells and actual corpse. Nowhere in the manga, show and on Demon Slayer's wiki is this considered talking to ghosts, and it's only ever referred to accessing memory cells

• Demon Memory Access: Muzan can "see" the memories of demons he absorbed, as seen when he was able to "ask" Tamayo's cells that he had obtained upon absorbing her for information on what kind of drug she had injected into him. Upon being denied and insulted by Tamayo's surviving consciousness, he also showcased the ability to forcibly reveal the desired information by "watching" her memories, as seen when he was able to see her memories of her developing the drug together with Shinobu Kocho and Yushiro.
• https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/Muzan_Kibutsuji#Fighting_Style

All this is to say that Muzan's demonization shouldn't be soul-based and appears to be exclusively biological in nature

 

[Mickey1940]

then again, I'm rereading ZZZ ether corruption, and uh

the corruption that Ether causes is

also biological in nature

which means Ye Shuguang's purification isn't soul-based, but biological

...meaning me talking about soul-based purification is apparently talking out of my ass and I was wrong about everything


changing my vote to Ye Shuguang

 

[Sooshirohl]

Does Shuguang's soul-based purification even work against Gyoko's biological corruption
Iirc demon slayer doesn't have a soul system besides afterlife shenanigans and Muzan's corruption is just biological changes and memory suppression
How does Ye Shuguang's purification work here when Gyokko's soul is fine, especially since he was an *sshole even as a human

outside of the fact that DS does in fact have soul stuff as castorice mentioned, when has shunguang's purification ever been specifically stated to be soul-based? her aura while using the qingming sword quite literally just purifies miasma on contact, and yunkui summit's ether techniques just involve resonating with ether frequencies. if you're referring to the whole "ether strikes faster on beings with souls", then i think that's moreso just meant to imply that it works faster on beings with sentience, as in both organic, living beings and sentient robots like the playable constructs we see in game

Not to mention, purifying Ether Corruption seems more thaumaturgical and eldritch compared to Gyokko's basically just pufferfish poison. Im not sure thats really the same thing and therefore im doubtful she can ignore the poison

i don't really see how it's origins affect whether or not her purification would work against gyokko's poison. if anything, i'd say shunguang being able to instantaneously purify miasma, which is far more complex than gyokko's simpler poison is just more evidence that she'd be able to deal with it no problem. miasma has been described as being toxic in nature and it also does stuff like paralyze people and numb senses, so again, i see no reason as to why purification wouldn't work here

Ye Shuguang decapitating Gyokko with a spacial cut also doesn't work cuz she doesn't incorporate sunlight into any of her attacks. Glowing white doesn't count in this case, its not like a torch or a flashlight can kill demons in DS. Gyokko gets decapitated and just instantly regenerates

gyokko died after he was decapitated in the actual series lol. even if you wanna argue he could just will himself to regenerate and keep fighting like akaza and kokushibo did shunguang just does what muichiro did and chops his head up into dozens of pieces to kill him permanently. either that or she just completely nukes him with a massive AOE attack to completely eradicate every trace of him

The AP advantage alone honestly makes things tough enough already since Ye Shuguang's Danmaku is countered with Gyokko's own. Except his is nearly 3 times stronger so her projectiles just shatter against the fish unironically. I honestly think its way more realistic for Gyokko to overwhelm her with sheer AP this way

the AP gap is notable but i think it's also worth noting that shunguang's danmaku outnumbers gyokko's in the literal thousands. it's gyokko's hundreds of fish versus shunguang's literal thousands of swords. you're also forgetting that shunguang outranges gyokko by a ridiculous amount (tens of meters vs. hundreds of meters), so gyokko's danmaku isn't even going to be able to counter shunguang's completely when she just flies into the air and pelts thousands of swords down at him

 

[Sooshirohl]

which means Ye Shuguang's purification isn't soul-based, but biological

...meaning me talking about soul-based purification is apparently talking out of my ass and I was wrong about everything

happens to the best of us

 

[Mickey1940]

so TLDR Ye Shuguang can just purify Gyokko with any amount of contact right

 

[Mickey1940]

happens to the best of us

I think I read "Qingming Sword's Purification" in this thread as "Qingming Soul Purification" by accident

 

[Sooshirohl]

so TLDR Ye Shuguang can just purify Gyokko with any amount of contact right

probably not like, purify his entire being but yeah i think she should be able to purify the poison from his BDAs just fine

 

[Mickey1940]

probably not like, purify his entire being but yeah i think she should be able to purify the poison from his BDAs just fine

ok but it honestly probably could purify his entire being since it could purify Muzan's blood which means Gyokko just dies of old age instantly

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Enmu doesn't even have soul manipulation on his profile since his blood demon art is destroying the target's mind and memories.

He isnt supposed to have soul manipulation or mind manipulation like listed on his profiles because he himself can't even destroy the mind or soul. He needs goobers to do it for him.

Yeah it's called a "Spiritual Core" but it's not explicitly stated to be the soul of a person

Why would it be anything but his soul. Even the mini Tanjiros inside his soul are directly called spiritual entities.

specially since people who die like this most likely still go to the afterlife, and therefore their soul isn't destroyed.

But no one dies like this. Enmu is the only one that has the ability that allows people to enter one's soul and none of the slayers on the train died in order to prove that afterlife part either.

As for Muzan, I honestly don't know why him summoning Tamayo's memories in the final battle is considered soul manipulation since he's accessing Tamayo's memory cells and actual corpse. Nowhere in the manga, show and on Demon Slayer's wiki is this considered talking to ghosts, and it's only ever referred to accessing memory cells

• Demon Memory Access: Muzan can "see" the memories of demons he absorbed, as seen when he was able to "ask" Tamayo's cells that he had obtained upon absorbing her for information on what kind of drug she had injected into him. Upon being denied and insulted by Tamayo's surviving consciousness, he also showcased the ability to forcibly reveal the desired information by "watching" her memories, as seen when he was able to see her memories of her developing the drug together with Shinobu Kocho and Yushiro.
• https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/Muzan_Kibutsuji#Fighting_Style

Muzan summoning the ghost of Tamayo is what was indexed as soul manipulation, not reading her memories.

Also that's the KNY wiki. Not really an official source and we did go against their indexing before. (KNY Wiki indexed Akaza's chaotic afterglow in the movie as energy manipulation. A crt proposed to give Akaza energy manipulation but was just rejected as being blood clones)

Also heres the scan of Muzan putting Tanjiro's soul into a deep sleep

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Actually wait episode 2 Tanjiro fights ghosts lol

Makomo

Makomo (真ま菰こも, Makomo?) is a minor character of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. She was a former student of Sankonji Urokodaki and was slain by the Hand Demon. She appeared in the beginning of the series as a trainer alongside Makomo to Tanjiro Kamado to help assist him in the upcoming Final...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sabito

Sabito (錆さび兎と, Sabito?) is a minor character of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. He was a former Student of Sakonji Urokodaki and was slain by the Hand Demon. He appeared in the beginning of the series as a trainer alongside Makomo to Tanjiro Kamado to help assist him in the upcoming Final...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mickey1940]

Muzan summoning the ghost of Tamayo is what was indexed as soul manipulation, not reading her memories.

this part is again, just memory cells. He asked them a question, they said no, then he coerced them by reading the cells themselves

everything else is valid tho

 

[Mickey1940]

Actually wait episode 2 Tanjiro fights ghosts lol

Makomo

Makomo (真ま菰こも, Makomo?) is a minor character of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. She was a former student of Sankonji Urokodaki and was slain by the Hand Demon. She appeared in the beginning of the series as a trainer alongside Makomo to Tanjiro Kamado to help assist him in the upcoming Final...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sabito

Sabito (錆さび兎と, Sabito?) is a minor character of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. He was a former Student of Sakonji Urokodaki and was slain by the Hand Demon. He appeared in the beginning of the series as a trainer alongside Makomo to Tanjiro Kamado to help assist him in the upcoming Final...

vsbattles.fandom.com

also valid. I only remember them cuz of this:

 

[MysticBrawler]

then again, I'm rereading ZZZ ether corruption, and uh

the corruption that Ether causes is

also biological in nature

which means Ye Shuguang's purification isn't soul-based, but biological

...meaning me talking about soul-based purification is apparently talking out of my ass and I was wrong about everything


changing my vote to Ye Shuguang

Counted, and thanks for joining in.