TenSura LN Revision - Cosmology Section Addition

[Mizuki67]

I kinda don't want to get into the NEP2 matter all that much. But just from whatever Astral proposed later on about depth of Hell not having <NEP information>, there is something to talk about. This is me assuming that NEP info is a thing in the verse.


Since hell converts postive info (souls) to nep info by erasure, then shouldn't that apply to the depth of hell as well ? Considering that is the place where the Heart cores (which are also information if I'm not wrong) get erased, thereby NEP info (from heart core) to exist at the depths as well ?

Then ultimately even at the depths there is still NEP info present. So even going with Astral's arg, the case there is no NEP info present in hell - therefore it's NEP2 doesn't work. And still falls under one layer of NEP1 erasure, no ?

It is something like this bro

Non existence > Information Non existence

But i am still kinda confuse with the argument

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

It is something like this bro

Non existent > Information Non existent

But i am still kinda confuse with the argument

I get what he proposed.
I'm js saying that since hell's entire thing is about erasing existing info into non existing info (as said in the soul erasure statement), then the same should apply to heart cores which get erased at the depths of the hell.

Meaning, even at the depths of hell there is still non existent information present (from the heart core erasures).

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I'll stop arguing for layers cuz I don't have the stamina to yap allat. Eid is really tiring with all the guests If there's something I want of it, I'll just create a CRT later.

But to the NEP2

I kinda don't want to get into the NEP2 matter all that much. But just from whatever Astral proposed later on about depth of Hell not having <NEP information>, there is something to talk about. This is me assuming that NEP info is a thing in the verse.


Since hell converts postive info (souls) to nep info by erasure, then shouldn't that apply to the depth of hell as well ? Considering that is the place where the Heart cores (which are also information if I'm not wrong) get erased, thereby NEP info (from heart core) to exist at the depths as well ?

Hell's void doesn't outright "erase" information. It converts the Soul (energy) into nep. But the heart core still has information engraved on it, just that now that info is about NEP things (similar with demons who are NEP from birth). It is just the info that is now about NEP things instead of existent things

Abyss's void on the other hand is stated to erase information from the data particles in such a way that "if they're transmitting something and you erase the info engraved on them, even if they travel to the destination successfully it doesn't matter cuz no info" (this is an analogy)

So it's not "the negative info turn more NEP" but "info is just erased, both positive and negative).

I share same opinion as dereck regarding NEP layers.

Forgetting the layers atm, what do you think of nep2 baseline args for Abyss?
I believe since Derek mostly relied on earlier posts to give his eval, he imo kinda missed the stuff I gave in my last reply to him.

 

[Berga14]

I get what he proposed.
I'm js saying that since hell's entire thing is about erasing existing info into non existing info (as said in the soul erasure statement), then the same should apply to heart cores which get erased at the depths of the hell.

Meaning, even at the depths of hell there is still non existent information present (from the heart core erasures).

Info are basically the most fundamental thing in verse, nep 1 (hell) still has them as:
1) it's literally sayd that it's the abyss that erase them not hell so we can assume that the statament of info existing everywhere can be applied to hell.
2) there are heart cores so there are infos.

The infos basically says how things are so the info that descibe hell are laying the fundation of nep1. They do the same in other words with existence.

The abyss erases infos so:
Abyss > info type 2 > nep1, existence.
Considering that info are more fundamental than laws and concepts in Tensura idk how abyss can be see as just a "stronger" hell when it lacks even the most fundamenal stuff in verse.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

I'll stop arguing for layers cuz I don't have the stamina to yap allat. Eid is really tiring with all the guests If there's something I want of it, I'll just create a CRT later.

You have gotten nerfed Astral XD
You and me used to argue paragraphs on Yt comments even at 2-3 am at the morning, about 2-3 years ago.

But to the NEP2

Hell's void doesn't outright "erase" information. It converts the Soul (energy) into nep. But the heart core still has information engraved on it, just that now that info is about NEP things (similar with demons who are NEP from birth). It is just the info that is now about NEP things instead of existent things.

So then, based on what did you propose that NEP info is a thing if now you say that surface of hell doesn't outright convert info to NEP info ?

As per my understanding, your arg for NEP2 for depth of hell was precisely because even non-existent info can't exist in depth, but if you now argue that surface of depth never had NEP info to begin with then from where exactly is the argument coming that "NEP info" is a thing and that it can't exist in depth especially since this "NEP info" is supposed to originate the the base.

 

[Ferno1234]

In this case, if a NEP energy which has the tendency to erase souls is resisted by higher beings, but a deeper version of it just bypass/overwhelm even those beings and erase them, then it's textbook layering showcase.

If there is a "deeper" version of an already NEP 1 nothingness, yet due to its ability to "erase" those that resisted the intrinsic quality of its lesser version—erasing anyone that resided within it,

It is ultimately considered layered NEP 1, if so, then what exactly separates layered NEP 1(which doesn't even exist currently) and NEP 2?

The only thing i see here as being the distinction between the two, is that the layered NEP 1 here, is its ability to erase anything coming into contact with it, while being seemingly portrayed as something "deeper" thus the descriptor of "abyss" and which is implied with it erasing demons, that themselves are composed of conventional nothingness, with the abyss also being stated to be a nothingness itself

With NEP 2 being merely this

Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence

From what i have seen, this is either a deliberate or mistaken attempt at mixing its nature as a deeper nothingness and its layered NEP erasure as a byproduct of being a void as the same thing

 

[Hecky2222]

your arg for NEP2 for depth of hell was precisely because even non-existent info can't exist in depth

His arg if I understood correctly

Hell has Heart which converts into NEP Info, Depth erases NEP Info thus NEP 2

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

The abyss erases infos so:
Abyss > info type 2 > nep1, existence.
Considering that info are more fundamental than laws and concepts in Tensura idk how abyss can be see as just a "stronger" hell when it lacks even the most fundamenal stuff in verse.

You do know that unless a lack of aspect directly dictates a lack of prior ontology in term of emptiness nature, it's just NEP1 getting an additional aspect type, rather than change its nature, ryt.

Basically the lack of certain aspects needs to suggest that the emptiness nature itself now lacks it's prior empty nature itself, rather than just lacking one of the aspect characteristics of that same nature (especially since the surface and depth have no information about difference in ontology directly).

 

[Hecky2222]

your arg for NEP2 for depth of hell was precisely because even non-existent info can't exist in depth

His arg if I understood correctly

Hell has Heart which converts into NEP Info, Depth erases NEP Info thus NEP 2

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

His arg if I understood correctly

Hell has Heart which converts into NEP Info, Depth erases NEP Info thus NEP 2

Uhh no
Heart core doesn't get erase at the base of hell, it only happens at the depths.

 

[Hecky2222]

Uhh no
Heart core doesn't get erase at the base of hell, it only happens at the depths.

Well from what I read OP

Seems like they are arguing Information converting to Negative as NEP 1, whereas erasing that converted Info is NEP 2

Is that right @Astral_Trinity439

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You have gotten nerfed Astral XD
You and me used to argue paragraphs on Yt comments even at 2-3 am at the morning, about 2-3 years ago.

The increase in Irl work does a lot of things to stamina lol

So then, based on what did you propose that NEP info is a thing if now you say that surface of hell doesn't outright convert info to NEP info ?

I think you're misunderstanding something here, so I'll give a better analogy to explain.

Hell just doesn't "erase" information. It is converted into NEP in a different way.

Let's say; we got X (in reality, it was I, Dio!). X gets nuked off existence and now doesn't exist anymore in the conventional sense. So while at first his "information" was about him existing in the normal sense, now it's telling us that he doesn't exist in the conventional sense and is NEP.

Lets take it to numbers. Hell would be doing something like adding a - to the info. 1 becomes -1. Abyss erases the code entirely, there's no number, no minus or positive. That is why it's fundamentally different.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

It is ultimately considered layered NEP 1, if so, then what exactly separates layered NEP 1(which doesn't even exist currently) and NEP 2?

Layering is just that, overcoming resistances. A layering doesn't suggest a change in ontology, it only suggests change in potency.

Meanwhile NEP2 is a non existent state that "lacks" NEP1 nature itself in its ontology, basically a change in ontology. In a redundant statement it's basically saying - you need to lack the characteristics of "lack" itself to be NEP2.

The only thing i see here as being the distinction between the two, is that the layered NEP 1 here, is its ability to erase anything coming into contact with it, while being seemingly portrayed as something "deeper" thus the descriptor of "abyss" and which is implied with it erasing demons, that themselves are composed of conventional nothingness, with the abyss also being stated to be a nothingness itself.

The contingent meaning for "deeper" is merely about going at the depths of this voidal space. The deeper doesn't talk about the ontology of the nothingness, and even if it was then deeper by itself is ambiguous to what it would be implying.

As so, even 1 layer above baseline NEP can erase a baseline NEP being, which is getting confused as change in ontology. As clearly ut doesn't show how the former is "conventionally beyond materialistic non existence".

From what i have seen, this is either a deliberate or mistaken attempt at mixing its nature as a deeper nothingness and its layered NEP erasure as a byproduct of being a void as the same thing

Just a matter of unjust scepticism due to lack of adequate information.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Well from what I read OP

Seems like they are arguing Information converting to Negative as NEP 1, whereas erasing that converted Info is NEP 2

Is that right @Astral_Trinity439

The erasure of information only occurs at the final stage of Hell, which is its depth. After that nothing else occurs.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The erasure of information only occurs at the final stage of Hell, which is its depth. After that nothing else occurs.

Since we aren't arguing for layers any longer, correct, since at that point everything is already nuked, existent or nonexistent

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

The increase in Irl work does a lot of things to stamina lol

I mean, i have gotten significantly distanced from this wiki because of my Job. But you are still very much active in here despite you being only in college vro.

Let's say; we got X (in reality, it was I, Dio!). X gets nuked off existence and now doesn't exist anymore in the conventional sense. So while at first his "information" was about him existing in the normal sense, now it's telling us that he doesn't exist in the conventional sense and is NEP.

Lets take it to numbers. Hell would be doing something like adding a - to the info. 1 becomes -1. Abyss erases the code entirely, there's no number, no minus or positive. That is why it's fundamentally different.

But for that work one need to show that the information that was reduced to null, is still present as a conscious entity while being in a NEP form.

And even then, those NEP beings getting erased just says that you have more potent NEP erasure, not a different ontological NEP, no ?

I think the WN Turn null was a better example for this. It's basically energy from the void existed as nothing even after its original nothingness nature was erased. That was clear NEP2, meanwhile this one seems really ehh.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I mean, i have gotten significantly distanced from this wiki because of my Job. But you are still very much active in here despite you being only in college vro.

I already graduated college, now gotta go to Uni. But I'm the older brother so.... Allat of errands lol

Still I got free time before I actually go to Uni, that's why I'm still active.

But for that work one need to show that the information that was reduced to null, is still present as a conscious entity while being in a NEP form.

I assume you are referring to Hell in the latter part?

If so then I think demons being there in hell and capable of thought makes that self evident.

On the other hand, if you meant abyss here; it's simply that we are proposing nep2 for a structure, not an entity. There's no point in a structure being conscious being a requirement for that structure to be NEP. (This bit is an IF in case this is what you meant instead of the above)

And even then, those NEP beings getting erased just says that you have more potent NEP erasure, not a different ontological NEP, no ?

Incorrect. They get erased cuz unlike in hell where it's just info that's NEP. This time info is just erased.

The thing void energy fed on was data particles—to be more precise, it erased the information written in these particles. No command has any meaning at all if it cannot be communicated. Even if all the requisite information is synchronized instantly between giver and receiver across time and space, if the “data particles” the information is written into are interfered with…
V22C1 OTL

I think the WN Turn null was a better example for this. It's basically energy from the void existed as nothing even after its original nothingness nature was erased. That was clear NEP2, meanwhile this one seems really ehh.

Eh, abyss of hell didn't exist in WN, but LN abyss seems similar to Wn Turn null imo

• It erases NEP things
• It lacks things that make NEP things NEP and existent things existent

 

[Cipher72]

Alrighty now that mods are here, I will go over what I think is fair ?
Firstly the aspects, I think all of them are justifiable I already talked about how the layered stuff doesn't work and it has been removed so yea fine by me
Nature Being "1" also makes sense however for some aspects I want to propose Nature-3

Spoiler: Aspects

Firstly Mind,

Aspect 3; Mind

I suggest Nature 3 because well they can think despite having a NEP Mind which is like one of the most common way to get Nature 3

"An example of that would be a character who is able to think, and hence has a mind, but is stated to be immune to regular mind manipulation as said mind is paradoxically nonexistent in nature. "

• From the NEP Page

Spoiler: Information NEP-3 ?

Cool, now I don't know how one gets something like NEP-3 for Concept or Information, for the latter I am assuming something like Information is both "Existent Information" and "Non Existent Information" which I believe that Tensura Information Particles does contain meaning that they can get NEP-3. Keep in mind I am talking about Information Particles not Information, the former can contain Existent and Non-existent Information whilst the latter is the very Existent or Non-existent Information.
For scans I recommend reading this section of the OP:
Aspect 4; Information & reading up on Information Particles
For further clarification on why this should qualify, the reasoning is simple. IP can contain negative Information (0) whilst said negative Information functions similarly to that of actual information (defines who they are etc) meaning said Information is (0) in nature yet acts like (1) which should qualify for NEP-3

Now the layers,

Spoiler: Layers

From my understanding layering is merely overcoming resistance. For something like non-existence it would be akin to a "deeper non-existence", specifically one that's more Non-existent than baseline non-existence following that string of logic we have Demons (NEP-1) whom can survive in baseline Hell and they can't in the depth of hell making the depths of hell more Non-existent in nature.
You can have a hell of let's say n layers and then Demons can live in the first layer with NEP-1 (baseline) then at layer x where;
1<x<n
They can't survive meaning that layer is more potent than baseline NEP-1 or more Non-existent which is technically how you get layers with NEP ig ?
So yea for the n'th layer you will have >1 layers, In hindsight I would say countless works because of the bottomless statement. At the same time I also understand the shortcomings of such a leap, not only is any layer beyond 1 proven but at the same time "Countless" might be too vague for an indexing site like VSBW so I am neutral on this as long as I there's 1 layer and leaning towards disagreeing with countless. However since Abyss is currently being argued for not just more Non-existent but a fundamentally different type of non-existence one that's superior to NEP-1 then ig this section is unnecessary.

Now the final section

Spoiler: NEP-2

The first argument is this

The following is @Astral_Trinity439's arguments:

The argument is essentially the Abyss erases Non-existent Information which would make the Abyss more fundamentally non-existent as it lacks the very Information itself that determines whether something is existent or non-existent.

What is quick summary for new arguments?

This is the summary of the new argument
Now another thing is this:

And if it isn't, then the 0 mentioned after the collision between negative and positive energy is nep 2.

Although this isn't part of the OP I believe that this qualifies for NEP-2 albeit no-one would have it since it's like Void Manipulation.
Now finally for my two nickles

Existence = 1
Non-existence = 0
Information Particles = 0&1
Somehow this Void erases the Non-existent Information on the Information Particles as well as normal Information(the latter is already transformed into the former by baseline Hell) meaning it erases both [0&1] not merely reduce the "0" but erase it completely and makes it into a different type of non-existence that's ¬{(0),(1),(0&1)}

Keep in mind in slime

Existence = Positive Energy
Non-existence = Negative Energy -> Nep-1
Information Particles = {(0∨1)}
Since they can contain postive information (1) or negative information(0), meaning they can contain both types of information (0&1) albeit not simultaneously afaik.
∴ Nothing/lack of energy/no Information = NEP-2

If this holds true then I agree with NEP-2, as for the arguments on whether it's truly erasing the Information embedded on the particles and not just converting the positive Information I will wait for other supporters to send scans about that.
My summary/TLDR of everything that has happened, has been proposed and my stance:
Hell -> Baseline NEP-1 (I agree)
Aspects (I agree)
At least 1 layer of NEP-1(This should be scrapped)
Countless layers of NEP-1 (Yea no)
NEP-2 Baseline for Abyss (leaning towards agreement)
Layered NEP-2 whether it's 1 or countless (I disagree)
I also propose NEP-3 for Information Particles and some of the aspects.
Thx, I will be taking my two nickles back now with interest (Your time)

Sigh

layered Sigh

:weee:

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

I assume you are referring to Hell in the latter part?

If so then I think demons being there in hell and capable of thought makes that self evident.

I haven't skimmed into that demons being NEP1 arg, so I will just go with assumption that they are.

Incorrect. They get erased cuz unlike in hell where it's just info that's NEP. This time info is just erased.

What I meant is that, a NEP getting erased by another NEP thing can just mean layered NEP rather different ontological NEP.

But atm this is getting repetitive.
Anymore derail is just not worth it.
Just put me in disagree with NEP2 and agree with 1 layer for NEP1.

Eh, abyss of hell didn't exist in WN, but LN abyss seems similar to Wn Turn null imo

• It erases NEP things
• It lacks things that make NEP things NEP and existent things existent

I'm js saying that WN turn null was a better case of NEP2 compared to this.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I don't want to get into these kinds of conversations, but wouldn't the pseudo-hell in Twilight be creating a "void" through information?

Since the worlds created by abilities are composed of information.

Except for Testarossa's, which invokes the "void" rather than creating it.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I haven't skimmed into that demons being NEP1 arg, so I will just go with assumption that they are.

What I meant is that, a NEP getting erased by another NEP thing can just mean layered NEP rather different ontological NEP.

Layer would be when some kind of resistance is involved.
Which is an NLF to assume (that demons have resistance to NEP erasure) as their survivability comes from being NEP themselves.

Plus once again the fundamental difference of having and not having information, which has both existence and Non-existence

But atm this is getting repetitive.
Anymore derail is just not worth it.
Just put me in disagree with NEP2 and agree with 1 layer for NEP1.

I'm js saying that WN turn null was a better case of NEP2 compared to this.

Ciel will do that whenever she's done with the guests prolly
I can only wait for her to come online :weee:

 

[Mizuki67]

I haven't skimmed into that demons being NEP1 arg, so I will just go with assumption that they are.

I think that is for another thread. Main focus is on void and NEP Nature

 

[Ferno1234]

. A layering doesn't suggest a change in ontology

Never lent the credence that it did

Meanwhile NEP2 is a non existent state that "lacks" NEP1 nature itself in its ontology, basically a change in ontology.

I expect a little seriousness here, not self formulated notions of certain topics

The deeper doesn't talk about the ontology of the nothingness

The topic nor the definition for Nep has any relevance to "ontology", so irrelevant

As so, even 1 layer above baseline NEP can erase a baseline NEP being

When was the nature of Nep of a void even relevant to its separate quality of erasure? You merely repeat the same thing as before

unjust scepticism due to lack of adequate information.

Skepticism which doesn't hold any meaningfulness without actual relevant reasoning behind it and the "adequacy" of information is a subjective notion, none of what you said is relevant to this topig as a whole

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I want to discuss nep2 in another crt. So can we close this at NEP1 for hell and 1 layer for Abyss?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I want to discuss nep2 in another crt. So can we close this at NEP1 for hell and 1 layer for Abyss?

Sure.

And that aspects that I assume the staff accepted (since they didn't oppose it) were all the ones proposed
So
Aspect 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (Life, Death, Causality, Law, Space, Time)

Edit: I will create a sandbox for the section addition format tomorrow.

 

[Bahaha]

I have to ask, should NEP 1 layered even exist? NEP 2 layered makes sense because any nothingness beyond NEP 2 is already beyond conventional nothingness therefore it is part of NEP 2 category but NEP 1 isn't the same. Someone should make a staff thread regarding NEP 1 layer and NEP 2 difference.

Also Idk why this is layers into NEP 1 when Information -> determines existence and non-existent information -> determines non-existent while Abyss erases the information itself meaning it can't be existent nor non-existent from information perspective.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

All I see and sense from that certain someone's text is that they themselves have some self imposed fantasy about what Non existent physiology is, which only tolerates what they personally think is true rather than what the wiki considers to be the truth.

I don't intend to elaborate anything more to someone who coins an explanation based on the wiki standards as "self formulated" and "notion" at that.

Someone who claims that ontology is irrelevant to physiology and "adequacy of information" is subjective says for itself of their extent of knowledge. This is what happens when you try to mask your hollow knowledge with sophisticated words.

 

[Bahaha]

All I see and sense from that certain someone's text is that they themselves have some self imposed fantasy about what Non existent physiology is, which only tolerates what they personally think is true rather than what the wiki considers to be the truth.

I don't intend to elaborate anything more to someone who coins an explanation based on the wiki standards as "self formulated" and "notion" at that.

Someone who claims that ontology is irrelevant to physiology and "adequacy of information" is subjective says for itself of their extent of knowledge. This is what happens when you try to mask your hollow knowledge with sophisticated words.

Okay using the wiki explain what the **** a NEP 1 layered being would be. This shouldn't be hard for you yah?

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Okay using the wiki explain what the **** a NEP 1 layered being would be. This shouldn't be hard for you yah?

That reply was not for you.
Also to answer your question since you didn't follow the thread ↓

Err
This thing is as deductive as it can get.
Layering is a case of overcoming resistances by the ability/spell/ontology's potency whatever you've got.

In this case, if a NEP energy which has the tendency to erase souls is resisted by higher beings, but a deeper version of it just bypass/overwhelm even those beings and erase them, then it's textbook layering showcase.

 

[Bahaha]

That reply was not for you.
Also to answer your question since you didn't follow the thread ↓

What you sent was not NEP 1 layered but non-existence erasure layered. Like genuinely wtf is NEP 1 layered

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

What you sent was not NEP 1 layered but non-existence erasure layered. Like genuinely wtf is NEP 1 layered

Why do you people seem accustomed to the habit of not trying to understand something which is very simple to get ?

I am talking about this specific NEP void itself which is type 1 in nature. The erasure characteristics comes from its physiology directly. Therefore when the erasure overcomes a resistance, it's because of the physiology being layered itself.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Guys keep it low
@Embers_of_Twilight @Bahaha

I understand your frustration, Twi, but saying that will only make the one you're targeting angrier that will escalate things

Let's keep it quiet and keep our questions for whenever NEP2 topic opens again ^⁠_⁠^

 

[Cipher72]

What you sent was not NEP 1 layered but non-existence erasure layered. Like genuinely wtf is NEP 1 layered

Think I explained this before in the thread, I will give my 2 cents someone knowledgeable can correct me if I am wromg.
NEP-1 layered is essentially being "more Non-existent" than baseline non-existence the easiest way to become NEP layered is to have your non-existent self get erased and become more Non-existent. Essentially being Quantitatively superior to baseline non-existence in the sense you are more Non-existent. This shouldn't be conflated with NEP-2 which is the lack of existence & non-existence altogether
Give this man ping perms, his pings are kinda worthless.

@Embers_of_Twilight @Bahaha

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Guys keep it low
@Embers_of_Twilight @Bahaha

I understand your frustration, Twi, but saying that will only make the one you're targeting angrier that will escalate things

Let's keep it quiet and keep our questions for whenever NEP2 topic opens again ^⁠_⁠^

Uhhh why ping me, when those peeps are the one who are dragging topics for which we have already reached a consensus ?

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Think I explained this before in the thread, I will give my 2 cents someone knowledgeable can correct me if I am wromg.
NEP-1 layered is essentially being "more Non-existent" than baseline non-existence the easiest way to become NEP layered is to have your non-existent self get erased and become more Non-existent. Essentially being Quantitatively superior to baseline non-existence in the sense you are more Non-existent. This shouldn't be conflated with NEP-2 which is the lack of existence & non-existence altogether
Give this man ping perms, his pings are kinda worthless.

Your wording will create massive confusion and misperception to what layering means and what physiology difference means.

But I won't be getting into it in this CRT considering the OP and other people have already decided not to argue more about NEP2 and Layers, so not gonna derail anymore and finna unfollow this thread.
We can discuss, if you want, on discord (if you have one) or in message walls.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I’d like to point out that the fact that demons are darkness because they come from hell has little or nothing to do with my the NEP 2 issue here. In fact, it is still redundant because it is still treated as NEP 1 base.

Btw
Since you didn't argue against the part about Demons being NEP
Am I correct in assuming that you're fine with Demons having baseline NEP1?

 

[Bahaha]

Think I explained this before in the thread, I will give my 2 cents someone knowledgeable can correct me if I am wromg.
NEP-1 layered is essentially being "more Non-existent" than baseline non-existence the easiest way to become NEP layered is to have your non-existent self get erased and become more Non-existent. Essentially being Quantitatively superior to baseline non-existence in the sense you are more Non-existent. This shouldn't be conflated with NEP-2 which is the lack of existence & non-existence altogether
Give this man ping perms, his pings are kinda worthless.

How does something become a nothingness that's not conventional nothingness but not be NEP 2? It is something non-existent, meaning it isn't existent, but it's also not something that is baseline non-existent. From the wiki pages of nonexistent physiology it states:

NEP1: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0.
NEP2: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.

How do you become more quantitatively deeper non-existent? The wiki treats non-existence and existence as binary/logical duality states. Having a non-existent state that is different from the previous non-existence state without being an aspect difference would mean the two non-existent states are fundamentally different, not just "quantitatively" different. I'm trying my best to think of a quality of "non-existent" (NEP1) that isn't too overarching while containing all non-existent beings/spaces that are aspectual and non-aspectual differences. If you say being "non-existent beyond non-existence" is part of this non-existent quality but just more layered then why does "non-existent beyond existence and non-existence" get to be different? If the addition of "existence" makes you think of "existence and non-existence" as being qualities, then why isn't the non-existence in the "layered" case not a quality as well? I'm currently looking at the Nonexistent Characters page, but a lot of characters like Gan would need their NEP 2 changed to NEP 1 layered, because their justifications are beyond traditional nonexistence space, and some other pages of being beyond existence and non-existence are not quality differences (beyond non-existence space and existent cosmology but not qualities of existence and non-existence). HOWEVER, NEP 1 layers itself doesn't make sense because even if you're "more non-existent", you're just part of the quality of "0" that the wiki defines as non-existence therefore you can add justifications of difference in their page but it doesn't make the NEP1 any more "layered".

I'm going to stop talking about this because this is going out of the thread discussion.

 

[Elizhaa]

I want to discuss nep2 in another crt. So can we close this at NEP1 for hell and 1 layer for Abyss?

Sure.

And that aspects that I assume the staff accepted (since they didn't oppose it) were all the ones proposed
So
Aspect 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (Life, Death, Causality, Law, Space, Time)

Edit: I will create a sandbox for the section addition format tomorrow.

These options would work. NEP Type 2 might need more additional evidences in another thread. I do not see pass more than one layer either as the Abyss other's layers are not described besides the first description of depth.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

These options would work. NEP Type 2 might need more additional evidences in another thread. I do not see pass more than one layer either as the Abyss other's layers are not described besides the first description of depth.

Good
Do you agree with this :

Btw
Since you didn't argue against the part about Demons being NEP
Am I correct in assuming that you're fine with Demons having baseline NEP1?

 

[Elizhaa]

I thought it would have been left for another thread I think it could be fine.