Star Wars UES Scan Collection Collaboration

[Epyriel]

In line with the recent staff thread regarding updating UES standards to specify requiring proof that different uses of the energy system in question can dedicate equal quantities of energy, I have made this thread to give a place for members to collaborate on gathering scans to substantiate and reinforce the Force as a Universal Energy System in both Canon and Legends.

Considering the massive quantity of material that comprises the verse, we are asking any members with the means to help out to please send scans that support equal energy yields being demonstrated across different Force abilities and/or through physical Force amplification that would serve as support for the Force being a UES.

Gathered evidence shall be compiled below to serve in a draft thread for maintaining the Force as a classic UES.

Canon:

• Jedi Fallen Order’s Force Meter shows equal drain from Force-amplified physical strikes and across pure Force abilities
• Post-Order 66 Darth Sidious and Yoda trade Force-amplified physical lightsaber strikes and pure Force powers (including withstanding each other’s Force strikes with comparable knockback) implying proportionality between their Force attacks, Force-amplified lightsaber strikes, and Force-amplified durability
• Mustafar Darth Vader and Mustafar Kenobi trade Force-amplified strikes and pure Force blasts showing relativity across all applications
• Yoda absorbs Dooku’s Force Lightning and blocks his Force-amplified physical lightsaber strikes with similar ease
• KS Vader and KS Obi-Wan trade Force attacks and Force-amplified physical lightsaber strikes with similar strain and damage respectively
• TROS Rey and Kylo Ren block each other’s Force-amplified lightsaber strikes with pure telekinesis with equal strain as their own physical blocks
• Obi-Wan can physically pry open Grievous’ chest plate which can withstand his Force Pushes

Legends:

• The Force Unleashed 1 and 2’s Force Meter shows equal drain across different Force techniques
• Post-Order 66 Darth Sidious and Yoda trade Force-amplified physical lightsaber strikes and pure Force powers (including withstanding each other’s Force strikes with comparable knockback) implying proportionality between their Force attacks, Force-amplified lightsaber strikes, and Force-amplified durability
• Mustafar Darth Vader and Mustafar Kenobi trade Force-amplified strikes and pure Force blasts showing relativity across all applications
• Yoda absorbs Dooku’s Force Lightning and blocks his Force-amplified physical lightsaber strikes with similar ease
• Hope Satele Shan blocks Hope Darth Malgus’ Force-amplified saber attacks with equal strain across both Force-amplified saber blocks and tutaminis
• Obi-Wan can physically pry open Grievous’ chest plate which can withstand his Force Pushes

 

[Xavis10]

Right now Poof's feat comes into mind. Yes, I know you disagree with that feat, but since you'll probably address it in your thread let's leave that specific discussion for then, I'm talking exclusively about stuff currently accepted in the wiki.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

watching

 

[Isaacbobanka]

Im no expert in UES but i will help as much as i can.

These are some statements i found:

A new hope

“The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.”

Force Valor (Legends, Star Wars Roleplaying Game and sourcebooks):

"Force Valor was a light side Force power that increased the resolve, accuracy, and speed of one's self and one's allies. Tapping into the Force, a Jedi could increase the rate at which one's capacities functioned, allowing the body to move and react quicker, leap higher and farther, strike more powerfully, and fight with improved accuracy."

There is also this from Star Wars The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force which has many facts about the force like being described omnipresent and personal energy throughout the living aspects.

You already know the force as omnipresent, simultanously existing as both a personal energy and as an imposing power through its Living and Undying aspects.

There is also in the Thrawn Trology Luke loses his force power and then losses the physical augmentation he had before.

 

[Epyriel]

Right now Poof's feat comes into mind. Yes, I know you disagree with that feat, but since you'll probably address it in your thread let's leave that specific discussion for then, I'm talking exclusively about stuff currently accepted in the wiki.

Im no expert in UES but i will help as much as i can.

These are some statements i found:

A new hope


Force Valor (Legends, Star Wars Roleplaying Game and sourcebooks):


There is also this from Star Wars The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force which has many facts about the force like being described omnipresent and personal energy throughout the living aspects.



There is also in the Thrawn Trology Luke loses his force power and then losses the physical augmentation he had before.

To be clear guys, the fact that the Force serves as a common energy source that fuels the power behind all Force user abilities is already accepted and listed on the UES page.

The new requirement being discussed is that we now have to prove the energy yield across all these different applications are equal.

So what we need is evidence that (for example) a given character’s lightsaber strikes are equal in AP to their Force pushes, or other abilities. Not just the fact that both come from the same source of energy (which is already accepted).

 

[Epyriel]

One example I think we might be able to use for both continuities is the Senate duel between Yoda and Sidious, since they match each other’s lightsaber blows and stalemate each other’s Force attacks (including tanking them respectively at the start) implying proportionality between their Force attacks, Force-amplified lightsaber strikes, and Force-amplified durability.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

One example I think we might be able to use for both continuities is the Senate duel between Yoda and Sidious, since they match each other’s lightsaber blows and stalemate each other’s Force attacks (including tanking them respectively at the start) implying proportionality between their Force attacks, Force-amplified lightsaber strikes, and Force-amplified durability.

So for example the fight scene in revenge of the sith where we see Obi-wan and Anakin compete at the same level in force and then compete at the same level in lightsaber strikes?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

To be clear guys, the fact that the Force serves as a common energy source that fuels the power behind all Force user abilities is already accepted and listed on the UES page.

The new requirement being discussed is that we now have to prove the energy yield across all these different applications are equal.

So what we need is evidence that (for example) a given character’s lightsaber strikes are equal in AP to their Force pushes, or other abilities. Not just the fact that both come from the same source of energy (which is already accepted).

Even so, I think it would be good to have blogs for this. Since we don't.

character’s lightsaber strikes are equal in AP to their Force pushes

Well, it's very common in Verso for force users to resist force pushes from other force users.

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In Legends it probably doesn't count, but in Canon it's constantly stated that Anakin and Obi-Wan are equal in power. This is visually demonstrated since they are tied in a lightsaber duel, and when they both use Force Push they are shown as equals, showing that "being equal in power" refers both physically and in terms of Force Power, such as Telekinesis.

 

[Epyriel]

So for example the fight scene in revenge of the sith where we see Obi-wan and Anakin compete at the same level in force and then compete at the same level in lightsaber strikes?

Perhaps harder to quantify since they were both also affected by conflict and Anakin by rage, but I definitely think we can also make the argument here that their nerfs and amps should apply equally across physicals and Force powers.

Even so, I think it would be good to have blogs for this. Since we don't.

A good idea, but perhaps not a priority since it is technically already accepted on those grounds. I’ll leave that for a future project personally since I want to wrap up the stuff I’ve already started.

Well, it's very common in Verso for force users to resist force pushes from other force users.

Feel free to start sending scans for the cleanest examples!

In Legends it probably doesn't count, but in Canon it's constantly stated that Anakin and Obi-Wan are equal in power. This is visually demonstrated since they are tied in a lightsaber duel, and when they both use Force Push they are shown as equals, showing that "being equal in power" refers both physically and in terms of Force Power, such as Telekinesis.

I’d argue the same also applies to Legends, just need to start gathering scans.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Feel free to start sending scans for the cleanest examples!

Using the simplest examples, games.

Force Unleashed and Fallen Order/Jedi Survivor. It is repeatedly shown that the "damage" from telekinetic attacks is comparable to the characters' regular attacks. Or characters managing to physically harm/match characters who resist telekinetic attacks.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

A good idea, but perhaps not a priority since it is technically already accepted on those grounds. I’ll leave that for a future project personally since I want to wrap up the stuff I’ve already started.

If you don't want to create a blog, you can at least use the Force Manipulation page itself within the canon.

Basically, create a summary section explaining why it serves the purposes of UES, similar to what's done in Dragon Ball.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

One example I think we might be able to use for both continuities is the Senate duel between Yoda and Sidious, since they match each other’s lightsaber blows and stalemate each other’s Force attacks (including tanking them respectively at the start) implying proportionality between their Force attacks, Force-amplified lightsaber strikes, and Force-amplified durability.

What about the Dooku vs Yoda fight were Dooku uses force lightning which Yoda then absorbs and repells at him with them after matching lightsaber strenght aswell?

There is also the rematch with Vader and Obi-Wan were they both uses the force at a simular level and then matches lightsaber strikes aswell.

 

[Epyriel]

What about the Dooku vs Yoda fight were Dooku uses force lightning which Yoda then absorbs and repells at him with them after matching lightsaber strenght aswell?

There is also the rematch with Vader and Obi-Wan were they both uses the force at a simular level and then matches lightsaber strikes aswell.

Added

 

[Ozcantabak]

Would TRoS Kylo vs Rey count ? They both trade lightsaber blows and stop their lightsabers blows with the force push.

 

[Epyriel]

Would TRoS Kylo vs Rey count ? They both trade lightsaber blows and stop their lightsabers blows with the force push.

Yeah I guess they do stop the momentum of each other's Force-amplified strikes with pure telekinesis so that should count.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Would TRoS Kylo vs Rey count ? They both trade lightsaber blows and stop their lightsabers blows with the force push.

Also in the TFA novel, after Kylo loses his lightsaber he blocks multiple blows from Rey just by using the force before eventaully going down.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

watching

 

[Doggo]

Obi-Wan can physically pry open General Grievous's armor, the same armor that withstood Kenobi's Force Push in the same movie

 

[Legion350]

Vader (who is already cybernetically augmented) has to use the force to block & deflecting blaster bolt shots from a star ship. Palpatine also deflects them alongside Vader despite lacking his cybernetics, and Vader's narration explicitly his might in the force, as allowing this. This is also important, because in this scene each shot from the star ship's blaster bolts impart kinetic energy capable of pushing Vader back as he deflects, showing LS as well.

 

[Epyriel]

Vader (who is already cybernetically augmented) has to use the force to block & deflecting blaster bolt shots from a star ship. Palpatine also deflects them alongside Vader despite lacking his cybernetics, and Vader's narration explicitly his might in the force, as allowing this. This is also important, because in this scene each shot from the star ship's blaster bolts impart kinetic energy capable of pushing Vader back as he deflects, showing LS as well.

Not really a demonstration of equal yield across abilities for the purposes of this thread, but still nice to have as a LS inclusive part of the UES.

 

[Legion350]

Not really a demonstration of equal yield across abilities for the purposes of this thread, but still nice to have as a LS inclusive part of the UES.

It was more for LS than anything else. I think it’s helpful since there are rarely any LS feats that involve the physical body. It’s showing the LS Vader uses to deflect the blasts is drawing on comparable energy to the force augmenting Palpatine’s physical durability.

 

[Doggo]

Come to think of it, Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor might have a lot of proof for UES. Given Cal repteadly survives blows from enemies who could withstand his force abilities.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Do we need any more scans ?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Do we need any more scans ?

More is always good.