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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

So I had a few questions for the forum, I’ve only watched the anime so far but seen videos so became curious:

When Yuki uses her Black Hole ability and Kenjaku survives it because of plot- I mean anti-gravity technique he should be outputting in terms of curse energy an equal amount to stave off the infinite gravity past the event horizon of Yuki’s black hole, especially as it’s considered to be a real one on the site.

Wouldn’t this also upscale many other characters, as while it is clearly much stronger than people’s durability ordinarily, we know that Strength and Durability is tied to output, so people on Kenjaku’s level should also have output on that level (with the Black hole itself being considered stronger but only relatively).

Likewise, was it stated that Yuki’s black hole ability is stronger than say a Hollow: Purple? Is there any reason why it doesn’t scale especially since Gojo is always called “The Strongest” not “The Strongest* except for certain characters at certain times”

Unrelated to the above, is the anime going to be used for scaling on the profiles or is it considered something else?
 
Udlmaster said:
When Yuki uses her Black Hole ability and Kenjaku survives it because of plot- I mean anti-gravity technique he should be outputting in terms of curse energy an equal amount to stave off the infinite gravity past the event horizon of Yuki’s black hole, especially as it’s considered to be a real one on the site.
Click to expand...
Udlmaster said:
Wouldn’t this also upscale many other characters, as while it is clearly much stronger than people’s durability ordinarily, we know that Strength and Durability is tied to output, so people on Kenjaku’s level should also have output on that level (with the Black hole itself being considered stronger but only relatively).
Click to expand...
Yeah it would, and yeah it's considered real, but this hasn't been tried yet as far as I'm aware
 
Another question I have: Who contained the Black Hole Yuki made? Was it Tengen or did Kenjaku actually fully counter and disperse all that energy with his plot powers?
 
Udlmaster said:
Another question I have: Who contained the Black Hole Yuki made? Was it Tengen or did Kenjaku actually fully counter and disperse all that energy with his plot powers?
Click to expand...
I think tengen limited the destruction while kenjaku destroyed the black hole

Also im sick and tired of people saying kenny's anti gravity was plot when yuki's black hole is worse
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
How OP do you think Geto would have been if he had Kurourushi in his arsenal during his fight with Yuta?
Click to expand...
On a similar note I just watched a short about JJK and was hit with the question of how much stronger Kurourushi would be if they used a Binding Vow on its roaches like Mei Mei does with her crows to use that one suicide move. That would be scary as hell, even more so than Kurourushi already is.
 
Electronic74947 said:
I think tengen limited the destruction while kenjaku destroyed the black hole
Click to expand...
Am I high or wouldn't that mean that Tegen is actively holding back High 5-A levels of destruction with her barriers? (Since the a good few Kilometres should have been sucked in if it wasn't contained)

Electronic74947 said:
Also im sick and tired of people saying kenny's anti gravity was plot when yuki's black hole is worse
Click to expand...
Yuki's makes sense given her whole thing is Celestial objects with Star Rage and Garuda and having a vaguely gravity/mass centric attack pattern.

Black Hole is the logical extreme of that.

The Anti-Gravity ability is too specific and super weird. Like it could have been any number of abilities that deadlock against Yuki's mass attacks but it basically had no other purpose than to directly counter Yuki.

Likewise, him retaining the Innate Technique when he's not even in Kaori's body is even more weird, since he's basically just collecting abilities and makes him staying in Geto's body strange, since he should have dozens of abilities at this point and it probably wouldn't be hard for him to take down a Special Grade and steal their body too.

Just strange all around
 
Electronic74947 said:
I think tengen limited the destruction while kenjaku destroyed the black hole

Also im sick and tired of people saying kenny's anti gravity was plot when yuki's black hole is worse
Click to expand...
I don't see how Yuki being able to create a black hole as a last resort by adding a f*ck load of mass with The Mass Technique™ is worse than the overly novel Anti-Gravity Field

It is crazy how much better you can present that plot point if the Anti-Gravity Field was the CTR that Kenjaku invented on the fly to show off his creativity. Instead, the implication is that he gets saved by pure chance and nothing but
 
Udlmaster said:
Yuki's makes sense given her whole thing is Celestial objects with Star Rage and Garuda and having a vaguely gravity/mass centric attack pattern.

Black Hole is the logical extreme of that.
Click to expand...
Sir_Marvulous said:
I don't see how Yuki being able to create a black hole as a last resort by adding a f*ck load of mass with The Mass Technique™ is worse than the overly novel Anti-Gravity Field
Click to expand...
Because we are told the mass doesn't affect her, as it's virtual mass... until it suddenly does
The whole black hole move shouldn't have been possible with what was established earlier
 
Mommyleona said:
Because we are told the mass doesn't affect her, as it's virtual mass... until it suddenly does
The whole black hole move shouldn't have been possible with what was established earlier
Click to expand...
But we know that's not always true.

Users are by default much more resistant to the point of immunity to their own technique, but the stronger the technique becomes the more dangerous it becomes to the User.

We saw this with the Unrestrained Hollow: Purple, Gojo took way less damage than Sukuna & Mahoraga did even though Gojo was closer to the epicentre, but the right side of his face was burnt severely and he was smoking.

So an uncontrolled application of someone's technique clearly can still affect the user.
 
Udlmaster said:
The Anti-Gravity ability is too specific and super weird. Like it could have been any number of abilities that deadlock against Yuki's mass attacks but it basically had no other purpose than to directly counter Yuki.

Likewise, him retaining the Innate Technique when he's not even in Kaori's body is even more weird, since he's basically just collecting abilities and makes him staying in Geto's body strange, since he should have dozens of abilities at this point and it probably wouldn't be hard for him to take down a Special Grade and steal their body too.

Just strange all around
Click to expand...
You know he had gravity before the yuki fight right?
Sir_Marvulous said:
I don't see how Yuki being able to create a black hole as a last resort by adding a f*ck load of mass with The Mass Technique™ is worse than the overly novel Anti-Gravity Field
Click to expand...
Because it randomly just made up a weakness and strength. Like she has no limit to how much mass except till it affects her body but she can still do it till she turns into a black hole?
Sir_Marvulous said:
It is crazy how much better you can present that plot point if the Anti-Gravity Field was the CTR that Kenjaku invented on the fly to show off his creativity. Instead, the implication is that he gets saved by pure chance and nothing but
Click to expand...
I mean. It being the CT or the CTR doesn't really make anything an asspull. He had gravity prior to fighting yuki. He used it against choso.
 
Electronic74947 said:
You know he had gravity before the yuki fight right?
Click to expand...
The technique is not brought up before Chapter 204, which is when Choso and Yuki begin to fight Kenjaku.

Choso fights first for Chapter 204 and Yuki joins for 205.

So, no, not really. It's introduced in the same scene where he fights Yuki in the first place.

Saying:

Electronic74947 said:
He had gravity prior to fighting yuki. He used it against choso.
Click to expand...
Is disingenuous when it's still the same fight overall, and the technique was used in Chapter 204, and IMMEDIATELY in the next chapter Yuki joins to fight Kenjaku.

So it's not like he had the technique like 20 chapters before in a fight with Choso.
 
Udlmaster said:
When Yuki uses her Black Hole ability and Kenjaku survives it because of plot- I mean anti-gravity technique
Click to expand...
mind you his technique was revealed before yuki's
so if anything, yuki had the "anti kenjaku technique" not the opposite lol
 
Udlmaster said:
Likewise, was it stated that Yuki’s black hole ability is stronger than say a Hollow: Purple? Is there any reason why it doesn’t scale especially since Gojo is always called “The Strongest” not “The Strongest* except for certain characters at certain times”
Click to expand...
no reason to assume "stronger" means strongest attacks are also stronger

ESPECIALLY when black hole is a suicide move
 
Electronic74947 said:
Also im sick and tired of people saying kenny's anti gravity was plot when yuki's black hole is worse
Click to expand...
especially when the entire point of bringing choso was to discover what techniques does kenjaku possess 😭

they even explored the possibility of kenjaku having a 4th technique..
 
Sus said:
mind you his technique was revealed before yuki's
so if anything, yuki had the "anti kenjaku technique" not the opposite lol
Click to expand...
Udlmaster said:
The technique is not brought up before Chapter 204, which is when Choso and Yuki begin to fight Kenjaku.

Choso fights first for Chapter 204 and Yuki joins for 205.

So, no, not really. It's introduced in the same scene where he fights Yuki in the first place.
Click to expand...
Sus said:
no reason to assume "stronger" means strongest attacks are also stronger

ESPECIALLY when black hole is a suicide move
Click to expand...
Okay, but Suicide moves aren't stronger than the Strongest in the series as seen multiple times.

Kenjaku was able to fully counter it with his own output in cursed energy into the Anti-Gravity technique

Hajime Kashimo had a suicide move and while it did well against a severely weakened Megumi-Sukuna, he was COMPLETELY overpowered by Sukuna's full incarnation (I.E Sukuna fully healed and back up to 100%)

So we shouldn't just automatically assume Suicide (or moves in general) moves are stronger than someone else's power or output unless stated.

Sukuna and Gojo were confirmed to be the strongest, and the series is actually pretty good when signalling when something would work on Gojo or not or is stronger or not, and if I recall correctly, there's literal memes about it because the author did it enough.
 
BiggestOpp said:
folks really be trying to scale JJK to high 5-A knowing ts not consistent
Click to expand...
No one's doing that, but you are aware that early Dragon Ball is scaled to 5-B based on the 1 example of Roshi blowing up the Moon and then the rest being based on scaling to Roshi and others.

For the longest time Dragon Ball was like 7-C until it shot up when Piccolo destroyed the Moon in Early Z, so consistency doesn't matter so long as it's not contradicted and remains consistent within the narrative, not just from a power scaling perspective.
 
Udlmaster said:
Okay, but Suicide moves aren't stronger than the Strongest in the series as seen multiple times.

Kenjaku was able to fully counter it with his own output in cursed energy into the Anti-Gravity technique

Hajime Kashimo had a suicide move and while it did well against a severely weakened Megumi-Sukuna, he was COMPLETELY overpowered by Sukuna's full incarnation (I.E Sukuna fully healed and back up to 100%)

So we shouldn't just automatically assume Suicide (or moves in general) moves are stronger than someone else's power or output unless stated.

Sukuna and Gojo were confirmed to be the strongest, and the series is actually pretty good when signalling when something would work on Gojo or not or is stronger or not, and if I recall correctly, there's literal memes about it because the author did it enough.
Click to expand...
i see where ur coming from but

and i say this with no intention of being rude, thats why people should read the manga instead of just connecting pieces thru stuff they see and hear

mahoraga PHYSICALLY destroyed a H3A construct because he simply had an ability to do so
he obviously doesn't scale to h3a

kenjaku is basically the same, he had an anti gravity technique, and black holes are objects with extreme gravity, he can't dispel attacks that are 5A because he is 5A

he specifically dispelled a black hole because he has a technique that counters the fundamental aspects of a black hole




oh and sukuna did not go back to 100% when he fully reincarnated, it is explicitly stated that he only regenerated his flesh (like a single use RCT)

and its also stated that if it wasn't for gojo weakening him he would have wiped the floor with everyone, which wouldn't matter if incarnation undid the damage gojo did
 
Sus said:
mahoraga PHYSICALLY destroyed a H3A construct because he simply had an ability to do so
he obviously doesn't scale to h3a
Click to expand...
Mahoraga destroyed it because he adapted to her curse technique, yes. Nothing is explained how he ignored the infinite pressure along the surface which isn't a part of the curse technique but a by-product of it existing in physical space.

However, (And I had the Manga open to check the chapter when I posted before) Yorozu still needs infinitely precise application of her curse technique with Construction as she's creating matter with her cursed energy and moulding it.

We know that it's not something like she's just picturing a sphere and turning that into reality because even she herself says "A perfect sphere that is impossible to grasp" and says later after she's activated her domain: "You saw it didn't you? It's impossible to grasp a perfect sphere." (And if I'm not mistaken, isn't the first time we see Construction used, it's explained that it requires full knowledge on how to construct said thing? Which is why Yorozu studied insects and the other girl (I forget her name) studied how to make guns?)

She's obviously talking about trying to picture or understand it, since it's not like she's talking about Sukuna literally holding the sphere.

So point is, she herself has to be outputting a massive amount of cursed energy to maintain the sphere's infinite surface
Mommyleona said:
Because we are told the mass doesn't affect her, as it's virtual mass... until it suddenly does
The whole black hole move shouldn't have been possible with what was established earlier
Click to expand...
I also read the full chapter (Even though I didn't want to for spoilers) and Yuki herself says "The Mass Adjusted by Bom Ba Ye doesn't affect me... but only up to a certain Density."

Sus said:
kenjaku is basically the same, he had an anti gravity technique, and black holes are objects with extreme gravity, he can't dispel attacks that are 5A because he is 5A
Click to expand...
He actually did. He even explains it to the projection of Tengen where he says that he used his own body as a Domain to bypass the limit of Antigravity system's activation and output.

Electronic74947 said:
I think tengen limited the destruction while kenjaku destroyed the black hole

Also im sick and tired of people saying kenny's anti gravity was plot when yuki's black hole is worse
Click to expand...
Yeah, so at the end of the chapter, Kenjaku says "It could have blown up the whole world but your barrier and her will suppressed it. So I have to thank you"

Meaning it actually was Tengen who restrained the physical explosion of the Black Hole once it went off and Yuki was dead.

So hey, we do have another example of High 5-A cursed energy output since Yuki was dead when she turned herself into a Black Hole, the thing we saw had to be contained by Tengen herself, so cool.

Sus said:
he specifically dispelled a black hole because he has a technique that counters the fundamental aspects of a black hole
Click to expand...
Right, but you have to be able to output the same amount of energy to counter the effect of the Black Hole.

The technique isn't like "Area doesn't experience gravity full stop", it acts against the gravity in the area via an output, which is why he had to bypass the limit on the technique's output.
Sus said:
oh and sukuna did not go back to 100% when he fully reincarnated, it is explicitly stated that he only regenerated his flesh (like a single use RCT)
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I didn't mean like he got all his cursed energy back or anything and was fully refreshed, just his body was restored, like you said like RCT.
Sus said:
and its also stated that if it wasn't for gojo weakening him he would have wiped the floor with everyone, which wouldn't matter if incarnation undid the damage gojo did
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, absolutely. My bringing up that fight was to show that Suicide Attacks aren't automatically just "beyond" these guys when we saw a suicide attack and it did nothing against Sukuna probably at his weakest ever (when having a full body, so ignoring when he's just fingers)
 
Sus said:
have you considered that kashimo might simply be a fraud
Click to expand...

They-Hated-Jesus-Meme-Template-on-Most-People-Rejected-His-Message-2-561x561.jpg
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
they mad cuz she's the real top 3, trust👀
Click to expand...
she's definitely in the top 10 but wouldn't say 3, maybe 5 but that might be a stretch

kenjaku and yuta probably win via more versatility and better domains

kashimo ig could use HWB to resist sure-hit perfect sphere but can his lightning shatter her armour? it withstood a couple of hits from sukuna's ox so it might be able to tank the lightning
and she damaged sukuna enough that he had to heal, so it will be tough for kashimo to take them head on, especially with her incredible speed
 
Sus said:
she's definitely in the top 10 but wouldn't say 3, maybe 5 but that might be a stretch

kenjaku and yuta probably win via more versatility and better domains

kashimo ig could use HWB to resist sure-hit perfect sphere but can his lightning shatter her armour? it withstood a couple of hits from sukuna's ox so it might be able to tank the lightning
and she damaged sukuna enough that he had to heal, so it will be tough for kashimo to take them head on, especially with her incredible speed
Click to expand...
I'm trolling, i knoe she's not top 3 (Kenny is) but definitely up there. Just a Yorozu glazer
 
BiggestOpp said:
Blah blah blah, hollow purple is the same as Yuki’s technique (virtual mass) and only one of them create a black hole
Click to expand...
Holy the memes are true.

Virtual mass isn't the same as Imaginary Mass. Yuki in all the chapter translations of Chapter 205 I can find and the subsequent fights all describe it as "Virtual Mass".

Virtual Mass is "mass" added by inertia due to some form of acceleration. Density does play a part in that, however, Yuki plays around with Density and mass specifically not just Virtual mass, which Gojo's technique doesn't factor in.

However, Yuki isn't likely using Virtual mass but instead actual Mass, which is why she first describes it as "Mass" when she punches Kenjaku, why Kenjaku remarks that she isn't affected by the added "mass" (not calling it virtual mass like she did) and says when unleashing an Uzumaki on her chest "You don't feel extra weight due to star rage... so while your density increases, your tensile strength doesn't." (Chapter 207)

When creating the black hole, Yuki also says "Star Rage's alterations in Mass don't affect me... but only up to a certain density." (Chapter 208

Imaginary Mass is a part of a completely different set of physics involving Quantum Field theory, where a particle's mass is negative (m^2) which means the mass itself is an imaginary number (i). Gojo is making an attack that has an imaginary number for it's mass.

So even if we do say that Yuki's technique is Virtual Mass, it still isn't the same as what Gojo is doing at all.

Nice LARP thou
 
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