(Halo, Ur-Didact) Mantle's Approach 5-A calc

[Sleepyhells]

First time posting so if I'm doing anything wrong here please feel free to tell me. All relevant images are in the google drive linked here (I don't know why it's not letting me link it), copying from my recent reddit post with the calc so hopefully formatting doesn't break. Bolded numbers in parenthesis refer to the image source. Clarifications on sources below.

In Halo Infinite Cortana uses a group of 8 guardians to destroy the planet of Doisac (2-3). Each Guardian is equipped with, among other more utility focused armaments, 6 Converging Beam Cannons (CBCs) which they used to perform the feat (4), giving us a total of 48 CBCs for the destruction of the planet. The Mantle's Approach is equipped with 25,000 CBCs (5), I think you know where this is going.

The original numbers I used for this calc relied on the listed size of the planet in the Halo Encyclopedia with a diameter of 24,930km (6) and the listed gravity of the planet in the Halo 3 Beastiarum (7) at 2.1g (or 2.1 times earth's gravity). Inputting these values into a Gravitational Force Calculator, using 1kg as our first mass, 20.601 Newtons (2.1 times the force of gravity) as our force, and 12,465km as our distance between the centers of both objects (half the radius of Doisac), you get approximately 4.8e25kg or 8.03 times the mass of earth.

Using the Gravitational Binding Energy formula listed by Vs Battle Wiki

GBE = (3 * Gravitational Constant * Mass Squared) / 5 * Radius

We can plug in our Mass and Radius to get the equation

GBE = (3 * 6.67408e-11 * 2.30003417e51) / 5 * 12,465,000

Which gives us a grand total of approximately 7.4e33 Joules of energy to destroy Doisac (Aka, 5-B or Planet Level (Wow, no shit)). Now, we know that the Mantle's Approach has 25,000 CBCs as opposed to the 48 used in this feat, so we can take that 25,000 and divide it by the 48 involved to get how many more are stationed aboard the Mantle's Approach (520.8 times as many). Multiply that by our energy output of those 48 and you get 3.8e36 Joules of energy (Aka, 5-A or the higher side of Large Planet level)

Two potential calcs which could spring from this are calculating the amount of Antimatter needed to perform these feats since the CBC's are explicitly antimatter weapons (8) and a potential recalc of Doisac's mass using it's three moons (two of which have their own atmosphere and all of which are spherical (9)) similar to Death Battle's calc of Planet Viltrum

Screenshots of official material was prioritized but in some cases where it couldn't be acquired (like the Halo 3 Beastiarum) screenshots of the relevant Halopedia article were used.

Image 1: Unimportant to the calc, just taken from Halopedia for the post

Image 2-3: [Halo Infinite cutscene]()

Image 4: [Page 88 of Halo Warfleet]()

Image 5: Page 86 of Halo Warfleet

Image 6: [Page 211 of Halo Encyclopedia 2022]()

Image 7: [Halopedia Beastiarum, Doisac](https://www.halopedia.org/Bestiarum)

Image 8: Page 80 of Halo Warfleet

Image 9: Same Halo infinite cutscene as 2-3

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First of all, Calculations need to be done in a calculations blog on our wiki; please read this page for more details on how to make a calculations blog.

And while the initial feat itself is subjective, I will point out that the next step actually has stricter policies. While dividing it by 48 to get the AP of the individual CBC is fine, we don't really multiply AP based on based on how many a ship has.

 

[James11221]

First of all, Calculations need to be done in a calculations blog on our wiki; please read this page for more details on how to make a calculations blog

The guardians blowing up Doisac part, was Calced and accepted, the results in this blog is the same as the one here aswell

 

[Sleepyhells]

The guardians blowing up Doisac part, was Calced and accepted, the results in this blog is the same as the one here aswell

Nice, good to at least have confirmation on that part

 

[Sleepyhells]

First of all, Calculations need to be done in a calculations blog on our wiki; please read this page for more details on how to make a calculations blog.

And while the initial feat itself is subjective, I will point out that the next step actually has stricter policies. While dividing it by 48 to get the AP of the individual CBC is fine, we don't really multiply AP based on based on how many a ship has.

The page doesn't actually say how to make one, just what to post in one

 

[James11221]

The page doesn't actually say how to make one, just what to post in one

You need to make a Fandom account with the same username, and then create a blog post with the instructions provided by the person above, then after you are done making it, post it in this thread, following its instructions to request an evaluation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The guardians blowing up Doisac part, was Calced and accepted, the results in this blog is the same as the one here aswell

There's still other notes, some sources say 7 guardians while others say 8; though it seems better sources say 8. Likewise, dividing the 253.8448 Zettatons by 6 to get 42.3075 Zettatons per CBC sounds reasonable, but we do have rules against stacking together 25000 to treat it as a giant AP rating. AP doesn't really stack linearly just because 2 or more cannons fired at the same time, and that's especially true if they tried attacking the same target with a smaller body/surface area.

 

[James11221]

There's still other notes, some sources say 7 guardians while others say 8; though it seems better sources say 8. Likewise, dividing the 253.8448 Zettatons by 6 to get 42.3075 Zettatons per CBC sounds reasonable, but we do have rules against stacking together 25000 to treat it as a giant AP rating. AP doesn't really stack linearly just because 2 or more cannons fired at the same time, and that's especially true if they tried attacking the same target with a smaller body/surface area.

Well then, I gues 42 zetatons for the mantles approach (because of 1 cannon) seems good for a at least rating i guess

Also could we calc the antimatter anhilatiom from this cbc, because as OP described, they are antimatter beams, and also in halopedia described as destroying everything they touch, tho im not sure thats enough

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well then, I gues 42 zetatons for the mantles approach (because of 1 cannon) seems good for a at least rating i guess

Also could we calc the antimatter anhilatiom from this cbc, because as OP described, they are antimatter beams, and also in halopedia described as destroying everything they touch, tho im not sure thats enough

I do not think there is enough info to guess work hypotheticals like that. Just because the word "Anti-Matter" is used, we do not assume the entire beam is made of Antimatter or how many grams of Antimatter there is to calculate. Not to mention, Antimatter in general has always been complicated when it comes to actual scaling; one doesn't really just tank antimatter, nor would resisting having parts of your body touching it and resisting parts being erased translate when it comes to durability.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There's still other notes, some sources say 7 guardians while others say 8; though it seems better sources say 8. Likewise, dividing the 253.8448 Zettatons by 6 to get 42.3075 Zettatons per CBC sounds reasonable, but we do have rules against stacking together 25000 to treat it as a giant AP rating. AP doesn't really stack linearly just because 2 or more cannons fired at the same time, and that's especially true if they tried attacking the same target with a smaller body/surface area.

It would "X with CBC, Y total with full salvo" like with the UNSC infinity.

The main issue is more "Why are they comparable" more than the totals, because just because both use the same weapon yield doesn't mean they're firing at similar potency.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It would "X with CBC, Y total with full salvo" like with the UNSC infinity.

The main issue is more "Why are they comparable" more than the totals, because just because both use the same weapon yield doesn't mean they're firing at similar potency.

I believe the 25000 as opposed to 6 of them has more to do with the ship being larger and having more coverage, or designed to basically attack large groups of fleets that swarm and surround the Mantle's Approach as opposed to having all 25000 of them firing at once onto a single target.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I believe the 25000 as opposed to 6 of them has more to do with the ship being larger and having more coverage, or designed to basically attack large groups of fleets that swarm and surround the Mantle's Approach as opposed to having all 25000 of them firing at once onto a single target.

If it can't focus fire all 25k, it may be worth just saying "X with 1 CBC, Y with 48. Z with total yield" and then note that total yield cannot be focused onto a single target.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If it can't focus fire all 25k, it may be worth just saying "X with 1 CBC, Y with 48. Z with total yield" and then note that total yield cannot be focused onto a single target.

Fair enough

 

[Sleepyhells]

There's still other notes, some sources say 7 guardians while others say 8; though it seems better sources say 8. Likewise, dividing the 253.8448 Zettatons by 6 to get 42.3075 Zettatons per CBC sounds reasonable, but we do have rules against stacking together 25000 to treat it as a giant AP rating. AP doesn't really stack linearly just because 2 or more cannons fired at the same time, and that's especially true if they tried attacking the same target with a smaller body/surface area.

The 7 guardian number comes from the Halopedia screenshot where only 7 are visible. Watching the cutscene you can actually count out 8 in total

 

[Sleepyhells]

I believe the 25000 as opposed to 6 of them has more to do with the ship being larger and having more coverage, or designed to basically attack large groups of fleets that swarm and surround the Mantle's Approach as opposed to having all 25000 of them firing at once onto a single target.

Yeah, 1 guardian is only around 1.5km tall as opposed to The Mantle's Approach which is 371km tall so it makes sense that they can fit far more of the same gun onto the ship. Plus the Ur-Didact was the leader of the forerunner military so it makes sense to pack his main ship denser than the mass produced surveillance drone

 

[James11221]

Yeah, 1 guardian is only around 1.5km tall as opposed to The Mantle's Approach which is 371km tall so it makes sense that they can fit far more of the same gun onto the ship. Plus the Ur-Didact was the leader of the forerunner military so it makes sense to pack his main ship denser than the mass produced surveillance drone

All the CBC may be in the ship, but we dont know if the 25000 may be designed to attack one target, it could be positioned seperatly to defend or attack enemies that surround the mantles approach due to its massive size.

 

[Sleepyhells]

All the CBC may be in the ship, but we dont know if the 25000 may be designed to attack one target, it could be positioned seperatly to defend or attack enemies that surround the mantles approach due to its massive size.

That's true, though I do think it's reasonable to assume that they could potentially be trained on one target due to their flexibility along with the flexibility of the ship as a whole. The beams are known for their ability to bend at will for maximum destruction and the ship is built from energy, hard light, and programmable matter, it's far from unreasonable to say that the CBCs could be concentrated towards the front of the ship or have their beams bend around it.

 

[James11221]

Fair enough

So if we were to go x with 1 cbc and y with full yield

Do we upgrade the mantless approach durability from 1 cbc or thr full yeild, because mantles approach was stated to be one of the most lethal meaning there are ships comparable to it and the mantles approach should be able to survive their attacks.

 

[Sleepyhells]

So if we were to go x with 1 cbc and y with full yield

Do we upgrade the mantless approach durability from 1 cbc or thr full yeild, because mantles approach was stated to be one of the most lethal meaning there are ships comparable to it and the mantles approach should be able to survive their attacks.

I'd say personally it'd be reasonable to scale it's durability to 1-6 CBCs since it should at least be able to vastly out power a guardian, though I haven't seen much material yet on forerunner ship to ship combat yet so I'm not sure if they actually can tank their own AP or if it's a race to see who gets the blast in first. If it is proven that they can tank their own AP I'd say it's reasonable to say that the durability would at least scale partially to full yield

 

[James11221]

I'd say personally it'd be reasonable to scale it's durability to 1-6 CBCs since it should at least be able to vastly out power a guardian, though I haven't seen much material yet on forerunner ship to ship combat yet so I'm not sure if they actually can tank their own AP or if it's a race to see who gets the blast in first. If it is proven that they can tank their own AP I'd say it's reasonable to say that the durability would at least scale partially to full yield

Tbf CBC are specifically stated to destroy anything they touch. Though that comes from halopedia

 

[Sleepyhells]

Tbf CBC are specifically stated to destroy anything they touch. Though that comes from halopedia

It's also in Halo Warship, though worded slightly differently. "-Antimatter streams that consume everything they touch" from page 80 (Link to the full pdf is in the post)