A question about the possibility of upgrading The One Above All to H1A+.

[Azertyhuuh]

I want to know if there is a possibility of classifying The One Above All at the +H1A level, since he transcends anything else that exists within creation.

If the Divine Creator is at Tier 0, then all possibilities that this Divine Creator can produce—that is, all logically possible worlds—would still be below The One Above All, by virtue of him being above and beyond anything else in Marvel. Based on this, I think he might deserve a +H1A classification.

Of course, this is because the Divine Creator is only Tier 0, which means all logical possibilities can exist within the Marvel cosmology. Therefore, The One Above All would transcend everything and anything without exception within Marvel, regardless of what exists, by definition of being the One Above All.

I AM THE ONE ABOVE ALL.

I SEE THROUGH MANY EYES.

I BUILD WITH MANY HANDS.

THEY ARE THEMSELVES, BUT THEY ARE ALSO ME.

I AM ALL-POWERFUL.

MY ONLY WEAPON IS LOVE.

THE MYSTERY INTRIGUES ME.

The One Above All is the ostensible Supreme Being of Marvel Comics, being the creator of the whole multiverse and the realms outside of it, responsible for setting in place both existence and the clockwork machinery that keeps it afloat. As the entity's name suggests, it resides above and beyond all that exists. As such, its direct appearances in the stories are few and far between. It was first introduced briefly by Uatu The Watcher as a truly all-powerful being "whose only weapon is Love," and later on, was scantly referred to as the mysterious master of The Living Tribunal, from whom the latter derives authority. Its first appearance would only come much later when the Fantastic Four entered the plane of Heaven and encountered "God," who appeared as comics writer Jack Kirby and helped the team by bringing Ben Grimm back to life.

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This isn’t everything—just an outline of the idea I want to present. I want to know whether it’s worth opening a dedicated thread for it or not. In the thread, I’ll provide all the possible arguments for this, but I’d like to hear your opinions on it first.

 

[MrKerf]

Okay, hmmm...

First of all, The One Above All isn't above all, as we know from the Defender's comic. If we assume that the Divine Creator exists in the same cosmology as TOAA (which we don't currently), the Divine Creator's feats and descriptions would put him at the very apex of it, while TOAA would still have a very significant gap between him and DC, that being the World of Creation.

Secondly, even if TOAA would be... "second only to Creator", we would still not scale it this way. We had fairly similar case with Umineko, and long story short: we scale from the actual "logical possible worlds" themselves, and not weidly backscale High 1-As from 0s.

Lastly, TOAA won't get jack until we figure out his glaring antifeats, Starlin stuff now being canon, Mother of Horrors, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Okay, hmmm...

First of all, The One Above All isn't above all, as we know from the Defender's comic. If we assume that the Divine Creator exists in the same cosmology as TOAA (which we don't currently), the Divine Creator's feats and descriptions would put him at the very apex of it, while TOAA would still have a very significant gap between him and DC, that being the World of Creation.

Secondly, even if TOAA would be... "second only to Creator", we would still not scale it this way. We had fairly similar case with Umineko, and long story short: we scale from the actual "logical possible worlds" themselves, and not weidly backscale High 1-As from 0s.

Lastly, TOAA won't get jack until we figure out his glaring antifeats, Starlin stuff now being canon, Mother of Horrors, etc, etc, etc, etc.

The Divine Creator from Marvel is Tier 0, so I don’t understand what you mean when you say he is not in the same cosmology as The One Above All. They are, in fact, within the same cosmology.

Secondly, it is not always necessary for all logically possible worlds to be explicitly present in a work in order to classify a character at that tier. There are characters rated H1A+ even without the full set of logically possible worlds being explicitly established, such as characters who embody the dream of a Tier 0 entity or similar feats.

What I mean, as clarified in the arguments presented in this thread, is that The One Above All is above and beyond everything because he is The One Above All in Marvel. He is the embodiment of that concept: his nature is superior to anything else within the Marvel universe, so he remains The One Above All. Since the Divine Creator is Tier 0 and exists within Marvel, then The One Above All would, based on this, be H1A+, because the Divine Creator is capable of creating all logically possible worlds within Marvel. And given that The One Above All is defined as surpassing everything to remain the ultimate “One Above All” in Marvel, he would naturally also be above those logically possible worlds.

The situation in Umineko is completely different here. Umineko does not even contain a Tier 0 entity in the first place, and the Creator in Umineko is merely a rank that witches can reach. As you know, the Creator was even removed, so the comparison does not apply. Even if we assume it exists and is Tier 0, Featherine would still not qualify for H1A+ because she lacks the necessary qualifications. While she is one step away from the Creator’s rank, the gap between a Tier 0 entity and another cannot be properly defined, since Tier 0 transcends all dimensional tier extensions and is unbounded. There is no such thing as a “step” or measurable gap from it—defining such a gap is already contradictory. Featherine’s case is entirely different from what I am describing here; that work contains many contradictions.

The One Above All is the character who stands above everything in Marvel, always remaining the ultimate “One Above All.” There is no world above him or anything beyond his reach; he represents the absolute peak of Marvel, where everything and all logically possible worlds—even those created by the Divine Creator—remain beneath him.

I am not saying The One Above All would be H1A+ simply because he is the second strongest character after the Divine Creator. It seems you misunderstood the argument I am presenting. Also, Umineko as a work contains many contradictions and is not related to what I am arguing here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, hmmm...

First of all, The One Above All isn't above all, as we know from the Defender's comic. If we assume that the Divine Creator exists in the same cosmology as TOAA (which we don't currently), the Divine Creator's feats and descriptions would put him at the very apex of it, while TOAA would still have a very significant gap between him and DC, that being the World of Creation.

Secondly, even if TOAA would be... "second only to Creator", we would still not scale it this way. We had fairly similar case with Umineko, and long story short: we scale from the actual "logical possible worlds" themselves, and not weidly backscale High 1-As from 0s.

Lastly, TOAA won't get jack until we figure out his glaring antifeats, Starlin stuff now being canon, Mother of Horrors, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, this suggested revision seems extremely unreliable.

 

[MrKerf]

The Divine Creator from Marvel is Tier 0, so I don’t understand what you mean when you say he is not in the same cosmology as The One Above All. They are, in fact, within the same cosmology.

Why do you think we separate normal cosmology from DeMatteis one?

He is the embodiment of that concept: his nature is superior to anything else within the Marvel universe, so he remains The One Above All.

No.

Umineko

No, it was debunked ages ago, Creator isn't a title. Regardless, Featherine was at one point argued (by me ) to be High 1-A+ for being "pillar of the world/all that is", which in turn created by tier 0. Yet it was denied since we don't backscale. You propose High 1-A+ for being above "the world", which was created by tier 0. We don't do such things.
In Marvel only DeMatteis' Oblivion is fully High 1-A+, for now. I would assume House of Ideas would also qualify, but... seemingly not.

I am not saying The One Above All would be H1A+ simply because he is the second strongest character after the Divine Creator. It seems you misunderstood the argument I am presenting.

And I am saying, our current cosmology caps at House of Ideas, which is 2 layers into High 1-A. You can give TOAA High 1-A+ only by upscaling him from the World of Action, which our current cosmology does not support.

Also, Umineko as a work contains many contradictions and is not related to what I am arguing here.

Do not cite the Deep Magic to me, Witch! I was there when it was written.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

The situation in Umineko is completely different here. Umineko does not even contain a Tier 0 entity in the first place, and the Creator in Umineko is merely a rank that witches can reach. As you know, the Creator was even removed, so the comparison does not apply. Even if we assume it exists and is Tier 0, Featherine would still not qualify for H1A+ because she lacks the necessary qualifications. While she is one step away from the Creator’s rank, the gap between a Tier 0 entity and another cannot be properly defined, since Tier 0 transcends all dimensional tier extensions and is unbounded. There is no such thing as a “step” or measurable gap from it—defining such a gap is already contradictory. Featherine’s case is entirely different from what I am describing here; that work contains many contradictions.

Stop larping please. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Xdsagecat]

When's the last time the Divine Creator has even appeared or even just mentioned?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Btw I completely disagree with this thread. TOAA is explicitly bounded by the Assiah (world of action) within Marvel cosmology. There are 3 sefiroths above him.

 

[Xdsagecat]

Btw I completely disagree with this thread. TOAA is explicitly bounded by the Assiah (world of action) within Marvel cosmology. There are 3 sefiroths above him.

Assiah?

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Assiah?

The world of action is Assiah, represented by the color green; the next one in the TOAA illustration is blue, which is the world of creation, i.e., Briah (for some reason Marvel swaps the positions of Yetzirah and Briah, which is why yellow is beyond blue).

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Should we close this thread?

Alright, I think it should be closed then.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Btw I completely disagree with this thread. TOAA is explicitly bounded by the Assiah (world of action) within Marvel cosmology. There are 3 sefiroths above him.

Remember my words carefully.
The Umineko work will be downgraded to 1-A, and this tier will be at baseline level, possibly only for Featherine alone, while the rest of the characters will be H1-B or below.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Remember my words carefully.
The Umineko work will be downgraded to 1-A, and this tier will be at baseline level, possibly only for Featherine alone, while the rest of the characters will be H1-B or below.

If you want to get beaten up badly on that topic, then sure, go ahead and try.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

If you want to get beaten up badly on that topic, then sure, go ahead and try.

Alright, we’ll see about that.

By the way, I didn’t say I would be the one doing it. Maybe I’ll open a thread someday, or I’ll leave it to time. An error doesn’t last long no matter how much time passes. The downgrade of Umineko to 1-A is only a matter of time, and it doesn’t have to be me who does it. But when it gets downgraded, remember that I predicted it and told you what would happen.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Alright, we’ll see about that.

By the way, I didn’t say I would be the one doing it. Maybe I’ll open a thread someday, or I’ll leave it to time. An error doesn’t last long no matter how much time passes. The downgrade of Umineko to 1-A is only a matter of time, and it doesn’t have to be me who does it. But when it gets downgraded, remember that I predicted it and told you what would happen.

its gonna get rejected as always like that one tier 0 thread you made.

eitherway close this yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.