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Team Fortress 2 - (tier 8/7/6 and Sol/ftl weapons speed upgrade and some other minor stuff) - 1 vote needed

LandonTheGuy

LandonTheGuy

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Mann...Team Fortstress 2 had an immaculate run for what it's worth... also big shout out to my boy @Rex_Eckles, i apprishiated your help cuh.

Now that we have all sorted out, we can start our CTR.


Tier 8
-Vaporization of a kaiju - 14.55 Tons of tnt (City Block level) (EVALUATED)
-Cow mangler inverse square law - 65,27 Tons of tnt (City block level+) (EVALUATED)
-The black box turns tanks into ashes - 67.5 Tons of tnt (City Block Level+) (EVALUATED)
-Cow mangler charged shot - 261,08 tons of tnt (Multi city blocks) (EVALUATED)

Tier 7
-Hale causes an eruption as the new CEO of hell - 5.22 Kilotons (Small Town level+) (EVALUATED)
-The aliens pulverize the pyramids - 119.233 Kilotons (Large Town level) (EVALUATED)
-Subatomic disintegration (lesser volumes) - 162.6 Kilotons to 99.33 megatons (Large town level up to City Level+) (EVALUATED)
-Subatomic disintegration (bigger volumes) - 178.43 Kilotons to 163.5128327 megatons (Large town level up to Mountain level) (EVALUATED)

Tier 6
-IBlowUpTheMoon ap (non canon) - 607,33 Teratons of tnt (Large Country level) (EVALUATED)
-All of earth's nukes can move the moon - 776.562 teratons of TNT (Continent level) (EVALUATED)

So, the bread monster calc is currently rated as a magnetude 3.5 earthquake, but i have reasons to belive this one is a 4.0 earthquake based on some evidence.

For reference
  1. The marcally scale specifies that a 4.0 earthquake is: "Felt indoors by many" "Walls make a cracking sound" "Sensation like an heavy truck striking a building" wich do all correspond to what we hear and see in the feat.
  2. 3D rapresentations of earthquakes shows us that a 3.5 looks to be less violent to what we ear in the video: 3.5 - 4.0.
So my proposal is to upgrade the feat to the baseline for a 4.0 earthquake, 15.0802413958 Tons of tnt (City Block level)

-Alien spaceship goes from space to earth in a cupple of seconds - 0.1 c (Rel) (EVALUATED)
-Cowmangler 5000 speed - 749.481.145 m/s or 2.5 c (FTL) (EVALUATED)
-Scout dodges the cowmangler - 5.369.497.060,25 m/s or 17,91 C, (FTL+) (EVALUATED)

-Soldier jumps with a shit ton of ghear on him - 1.67 up to 3.35 Metric Tons (Class 5) (EVALUATED)


Scaling

Everyone on base should have these stats (not counting the multipliers that we have in MVM):
  • Attack Potency: 67.5 Tons of tnt
  • Speed: Mach 3.85 <-doesn't change
  • Lifting Strenght: 1.67 Metric Tons
It will be added a new Key for the mercs, Australium Chase, every mercs just upscale their Robot War Key here, but Heavy gets an At most stat that gives him ap comparable to the average Australian, giving him At most 119.233 Kilotons, this applies to heavy because:

  1. He menages to hold his own against Meggie in tug war, who's an Australian.
  2. Survives a beating against TFC heavy, who had access to australium at that moment (Australium is the source of Australian's strenght)
The mercs during the Robot war will have:
The mercs during the Comics willi upscale all their previus stats, as they can now defeat the robots who were capable of killing them, bare handed.



Saxton Hale pretty much upscales everything lol (Hale will be 6-B due of this statement).

SO, considering we won't scaling laser weapons to the mercs physically, i have to specify that all of the laser equipment scales to 65,27 Tons of tnt (City block level+), there are some instances of weapons being beyond that, like the Cowmangler, whitch reaches 261,08 tons of tnt Tons of tnt (Multi city block).

Weapons like: The Righteus Bison, The Man Melter and the Pomson, who all have been stated to be "Indivisible Particle Smasher" scale to this value 178.43 Kilotons to 163.5128327 megatons (Large town level up to Mountain level).


All of these weapons reside in the SOL range due of varius statements such as:


All vaporization/SOL feats only scale to the mercs weapons, but the mercs should get Resistence to Heat and Matter manipulation as they still deal a lot with these weapons.

smaller propositions
The tf2 universe should fall into the Low-Multiversal ranges for it's cosmology as Engeneer himself implies that there are multiple other universes (aka dr.grordborts in the case shown), with other dimension such as Hell, Heaven, the Underworld and the dimensions we see tru Hell train.

Hale has shown the capability of outputting way above anything that the mercs can give, as in jungle inferno he Low-Diffs a juiced up version of the yeti who had this statementin about 30 seconds, while the mercs weren't even capable of injuring it in any way.

In conclusion, the current hale scaling comes as an outlier on a verse prospective.

(Little sidenote, vsh regardless still implies that hale won that battle because is still alive and well as seen in the comics.)


The comic has been deemed non canon.


It looks like God has no problem on blowing up the planet for Scout.


I've noticed that Saxton Hale inteligence is rated as "A bit Below Average", i do admit myself that Hale is not the most situationally aware person ever, BUT i do not feel like that should impact his inteligence rating this much as we got other characters like Phenomaman who are rated as average inteligence too altho this one could be described to be a little detached by reality as much as Hale is.

Hale skills/IQ feats fall on these:

With the last point i think i think to clarify that Hale is no genius, but considering the overall points given, above average human as a rating doesn't look too bad.


Apparently outdated and should not be there



AGREE: @Rex_Eckles , @IDK3465, @DaReaperMan , @RaikiKurohane99, @Greg_the_master_of_gods

NEUTRAL:

DISAGREE:


Mods agreeing: [B]@ActuallySpaceMan42 (Neutral on the scaling, agrees with everything else) @SomebodyData [/B]
 
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wiki.teamfortress.com

Hitscan - Official TF2 Wiki | Official Team Fortress Wiki

wiki.teamfortress.com wiki.teamfortress.com
There are multitude of hitscan weapons that outside just not being in their path, you can't really dodge in game, is the argument just that all these guns just have FTL projectile speed? I know TF2 is zany and stuff, but I feel it'd be weird to argue that all these guns are FTL rather than say that the Cowmangler is a massive outlier, especially when the Bonk calc is nowhere in that ballpark, and that's an amped Scout who's already the fastest merc.
 
Tllmbrg said:
wiki.teamfortress.com

Hitscan - Official TF2 Wiki | Official Team Fortress Wiki

wiki.teamfortress.com wiki.teamfortress.com
There are multitude of hitscan weapons that outside just not being in their path, you can't really dodge in game, is the argument just that all these guns just have FTL projectile speed? I know TF2 is zany and stuff, but I feel it'd be weird to argue that all these guns are FTL rather than say that the Cowmangler is a massive outlier, especially when the Bonk calc is nowhere in that ballpark, and that's an amped Scout who's already the fastest merc.
Click to expand...
We're just considering that game mechanics, the hitscan weapons would be blitzing their Australium Chase keys.
 
Tllmbrg said:
wiki.teamfortress.com

Hitscan - Official TF2 Wiki | Official Team Fortress Wiki

wiki.teamfortress.com wiki.teamfortress.com
There are multitude of hitscan weapons that outside just not being in their path, you can't really dodge in game, is the argument just that all these guns just have FTL projectile speed? I know TF2 is zany and stuff, but I feel it'd be weird to argue that all these guns are FTL rather than say that the Cowmangler is a massive outlier, especially when the Bonk calc is nowhere in that ballpark, and that's an amped Scout who's already the fastest merc.
Click to expand...
those only scale to the weapon themself, the speed scaling is not being altered for now

The mercs at the moment will just scale to Supersonic+/Hypersonic, this only regards ap, ls, attack speed of some weapons and only a revision of the bonk feat
 
DaReaperMan said:
We're just considering that game mechanics, the hitscan weapons would be blitzing their Australium Chase keys.
Click to expand...
...but isn't the Cowmangler 5000 also something that's purely from the games? Heck, it specifically gets FTL off MvM upgrades you can buy, I don't think you can go "Hitscan weapons completely outspeeding is game mechanics, but using it these multipliers isn't."
 
LandonTheGuy said:
2.329 Petatons (Continental Level) with Saxton Punch! for saxton (As this one deals a crit damage, so we give him the 3 times multiplier too).
Click to expand...
Is that 3x critical hit multiplier actually accepted right now? It's definitely not stated by any source that isn't just telling the player a game mechanic in a menu or tutorial or something. If you recall, multipliers do require statements to be valid.
I agree with everything else, though.
 
LandonTheGuy said:
Scaling
The mercenaries (the low/mid tier of the verse) physically scale to these calcs:
The mercenaries have shown the capability of to tank their weapons in multiple contexts such as gameplay , commercial burp , comics (we can see demoman explodiong a granate under him and bost himself with it) and in animated shorts.


The mercenaries go in different "arcs" where they obtain different ap stats based on the calcs elenched before and varius multipliers:

  1. The gravel war mercs scale to the 67.5 Tons of tnt (City Block level+) thanks to the black box baing able to vaporize tanks.
  2. The robot war mercs scale to 80,88 tons of tnt (City Block level+) on base, but if the MVM upgrade are applied they scale to 2 times the base ap so 161,76 tons of tnt (Multi City Block level).
  3. The Australium chase mercs upscale the previus best stat for the robot war mercs, this is because they are capale to fight the same robots with so much ease that some of them fought naked covered in honey (don't ask why).
Using the same logic, the mercs (Heavy excluded) follow this scaling:
  1. Gravel war mercs 1.67 metric tons (Class 5) .
  2. Robot war mercs 3.35 metric tons (Class 5) thanks to upgrades.
  3. Australium chase mercs 3.35 metric tons (Class 5) .

The mercs possesses some equipment that doesn't scale to them physically, this one should be referred as Sub-Atomization weapons, this equipment does get stronger overtime thanks to feats and upgrades:

  1. Gravel war Sub-Atomization weapons scale up to 178.43 Kilotons (Large Town Level)
  2. Robot war Sub-Atomization weapons scale to 163.5128327 megatons (Mountain level), 327,0256654 (Mountain level) with upgrades (2 times multiplier).
  3. The australium chase mercs did not show to have these weapons during the comics.
Click to expand...
I'm mostly going to address this specific section for now because it is the most glaring one, but I'm positive we've had this discussion before - we can't really scale the mercenaries to weapons that vaporize them, at most you can consider giving them the weapons to use but physical scaling wouldn't make any sense.
 
Tllmbrg said:
...but isn't the Cowmangler 5000 also something that's purely from the games? Heck, it specifically gets FTL off MvM upgrades you can buy, I don't think you can go "Hitscan weapons completely outspeeding is game mechanics, but using it these multipliers isn't."
Click to expand...
We had a long discussion previously, and it was deemed anything higher than mercs' current speeds would be inconsistent.
 
Dareaperman u menaged to put more ppl here today that me in 6 months
Abstractions said:
I'm mostly going to address this specific section for now because it is the most glaring one, but I'm positive we've had this discussion before - we can't really scale the mercenaries to weapons that vaporize them, at most you can consider giving them the weapons to use but physical scaling wouldn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
The weapons have shown to be able to instantly vaporize their targhets only in the original dr.grogbort comics.

While the mercs take varius direct hits by them and get treated as normal weapons, the vaporization effect only applies when the effective duranility of the targhet is 0.

it's like with the Rocket Launcher, soldier scales to it altho this one can kill him after multiple hits
 
LandonTheGuy said:
While the mercs take varius direct hits by them and get treated as normal weapons, the vaporization effect only applies when the effective duranility of the targhet is 0.
Click to expand...
Yeah, when they are killed they get vaporized by the weapon, like everything else.
 
Abstractions said:
I want you to walk me through the process of how vaporization occurs.
Click to expand...
The material that makes up an object is heated to the point that it reaches a change of its state of matter, in this case both from solid->liquid->gas and liquid->gas really quickly. In TF2, this only happens when the mercs are weakened enough to succumb to damage.

Also, don't say "but the thermal energy dissipates through the air and not into the mercs' bodies" because direct shots from all these vaporizing weapons do not dissipate past the bodies of the mercs, therefore all the energy is concentrated onto them.
 
Rex_Eckles said:
Also, don't say "but the thermal energy dissipates through the air and not into the mercs' bodies" because direct shots from all these vaporizing weapons do not dissipate past the bodies of the mercs, therefore all the energy is concentrated onto them.
Click to expand...
And the energy is powerful enough to not just blast them to pieces, not just incinerate them, but completely annihilate them, yes? Which only occurs to an object when?
 
Abstractions said:
And the energy is powerful enough to not just blast them to pieces, not just incinerate them, but completely annihilate them, yes? Which only occurs to an object when?
Click to expand...
When heated to a given temperature that causes chemical bonds to break, decreasing their rigidity, yes.

HOWEVER, that does not happen until the mercs are WEAK ENOUGH not to survive said energy.
 
Rex_Eckles said:
HOWEVER, that does not happen until the mercs are WEAK ENOUGH not to survive said energy.
Click to expand...
I don't think you're understanding that you want the values and the potency that come from vaporizing something, but aren't willing to accept the consequence of the requirement.

It is a paradox to scale to something that vaporizes you, this is not how things work. You would not get vaporized to begin with had you been durable enough to withstand it at all.
 
Abstractions said:
It is a paradox to scale to something that vaporizes you, this is not how things work. You would not get vaporized to begin with had you been durable enough to withstand it at all.
Click to expand...
It's not a paradox, unless you think rocket-jumping with launchers that gib the mercs is a paradox (which it isn't).
 
Abstractions said:
I don't think you're understanding that you want the values and the potency that come from vaporizing something, but aren't willing to accept the consequence of the requirement.

It is a paradox to scale to something that vaporizes you, this is not how things work. You would not get vaporized to begin with had you been durable enough to withstand it at all.
Click to expand...
what rex is trying to say is that, the mercs at lowest get vaporized/killed by 2 hits.

While all the feats that we present you today happen in a single hit.

There's no paradox in this if:

1 cow mangler shot < weaker mercs < 2 cow mangler shota < tankier mercs
 
LandonTheGuy said:
what rex is trying to say is that, the mercs at lowest get vaporized/killed by 2 hits.

While all the feats that we present you today happen in a single hit.

There's no paradox in this if:

1 cow mangler shot < weaker mercs < 2 cow mangler shota < tankier mercs
Click to expand...
You simply don't get vaporized by something you scale with, something has to overpower you by orders of magnitude for such an event to occur.

Rex_Eckles said:
It's not a paradox, unless you think rocket-jumping with launchers that gib the mercs is a paradox (which it isn't).
Click to expand...
And people will argue with you that there's at least precedent for this, where someone looking to contradict you would only need to point towards Sniper dying to a couple of bullets.

Rocket jumping supposedly has lore to suggest it was a common practice, and people would use something like Meet the Medic as reason to scale partially to rockets, but you cannot make that case here, it's purely isolated within the gameplay.
 
Abstractions said:
You simply don't get vaporized by something you scale with, something has to overpower you by orders of magnitude for such an event to occur.
Click to expand...
yes, if you shoot yourself a lot of times you die.

That doesn't stop every other explosion feat that happens in game altho, if you shoot yourself too many times in the foot you get blasted into pieces.

Soldier can take 6 hits of cowmangler while rocket jumping and then die at the 7th one.

the same will happen with other weapons too.
 
LandonTheGuy said:
That doesn't stop every other explosion feat that happens in game altho, if you shoot yourself too many times in the foot you get blasted into pieces.

Soldier can take 6 hits of cowmangler while rocket jumping and then die at the 7th one.

the same will happen with other weapons too.
Click to expand...
You're just reiterating your position and justifying your position with HP mechanics, it's not actually addressing the facts of the matter.

The facts aside, what do you think occurs when you start to scale everything with each other? You then have to come to terms with the fact that a great majority of the weapons don't vaporize yet you want us to believe they are all equally as effective, which cannot be the case at all unless vaporization now is like how it is in gameplay - completely cosmetic. This means that it is entirely nothing so no scaling should exist at all.

Frankly it's ridiculous, you can't pick and choose here.
 
Pyro9278 said:
Does the speed then improve to Hypersonic+ or are we going to open a debate about FTL? Because I'm sure it should only apply to attack speed
Click to expand...
only apply on attack apeed, it was already discussed.

The speed remains the same as before ap/ls changes
Abstractions said:
You're just reiterating your position and justifying your position with HP mechanics, it's not actually addressing the facts of the matter.

The facts aside, what do you think occurs when you start to scale everything with each other? You then have to come to terms with the fact that a great majority of the weapons don't vaporize yet you want us to believe they are all equally as effective, which cannot be the case at all unless vaporization now is like how it is in gameplay - completely cosmetic. This means that it is entirely nothing so no scaling should exist at all.

Frankly it's ridiculous, you can't pick and choose here.
Click to expand...
well, anything else about the non vaporization stuff or...?

Also other weapons like the black box can vaporize tanks, so yes there are more weapons that do that.

regardless the mercs Will get 8-B+ ratings due of that.
 
Last edited:
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